stuart moore

[pricescope]

Mara, you're not alone, I missed it too

Stuart, welcome to the forum

There always will be people who are looking for a bargain and those who appreciate original design and art.

Keep up your great work!

 

[MichaelF]

I saw this post a couple of days back and read through it. Stuart's designs are innovative, contemporary, avant guarde and I do love them. I had an occasion to visit his store in Orange County a few years back and was awed by the beauty of his work. As a designer he is to be commended. I struggled to find, in my current search, a setting with as much style as what I remembered seeing in Stuart's store. Imagine that, five years later, and I can still envision his ring on my g/f's finger. I think that says something about style and imagination on the part of the designer.

Having said that, I could not remember the name of his store. I did remember the name of the mall and found a directory. Then found his store, website, and the posts here. So I'm intrigued, but I'm left wondering how to transact business with the man, about the quality of his gems as compared to what I learned here, and about customer service.

Mara quotes:
'After all, you’re never going to convince me that the few percentage points of price that an internet diamond broker might save a client on a loose stone, can replace the kind of product and personal service we give, and I’m never going to convince you of the opposite. '

I have to say that the 'personal service' point does not match up with my experience interacting with his firm over the web. I sent his firm a note by way of his website / contact page asking how I can discuss my ring purchase with his firm. Should I fly to NY? I gave my business email addy and to date have received no reply. I can contrast that with another designer (www.claudethibaudeau.com) who I contacted in the same manner. They responded within 12 hours, and follow-up replies were immediate!

I'm currently working with White Flash on the purchase of a diamond. Customer service has been outstanding! In fact I'm finding the process to be more secure than a B&M purchase. I don't suppose a B&M would send their stone out for independent appraisal and consultation at no charge prior to purchase? They seem to want me to "trust in their name". Well... sorry, not going to happen. My experience buying everything from my Omega Sea Master to diamond earrings to gold rings has been that once I walk there is no more talk. The idea of an ongoing relationship with me is nowhere to be found.

Not a singe B&M ever asked me the name of my g/f. Is this important? I never thought so until Brian The Cutter did at WF... He made it personal and said he's going to do what ever he can to make sure Rose's ring is the loveliest it can possible be... Now that's cool! What's even better is that all of my calls are returned; emails are timely, pictures, photos, certs.... I can't say enough about the folks at WF...

There is more to operating in the virtual marketplace than putting up a website. You have to accessible, informative, build community, and about a dozen other things. To put up a website, solicit a dialogue, and then be less than responsive is not going to go over well in a market space where people move quickly, have high expectations, and have little time to spend waiting. While the B&M sits there waiting for the next guy to be impressed with their decor, I'll be here planning my eternity band... If she says "Yes" of course... LOL...

I have worked for two firms who had wonderful products, but never understood online marketing (my field) and failed. Both are now out of business. I don't suppose this is a risk for the B&M, but they best wise up because the biggest hindrance to spending money on the net is not access anymore it is fear. Fear that can be overcome once they realize that they are saving a ton (very high risk v. return factor), there is, in truth, less not more risk (by virtue of independent appraisals), and better customer services (virtual marketers know that they have too because the other guy is one click away.) I wonder when the B&M's will figure out that their competition is also "one click away"? I hope soon, because they'll need more than a stellar design to win business and grow.

Just a thought.... IMHO... As always...

Michael

 

[Hest88]

Michael, thanks for the cogent post. I agree totally. I've heard many B&M bookstores gripe about Internet competition, yet when marketing and service tactics are suggested to them they dismiss them as if the "virtue" of being a B&M should be enough. Jewelers can be no different. This isn't Main Street USA anymore. In fact, even before the rise of the Internet it hadn't been for a long time. Savvy jewelers who want to survive need to update their thinking, figure out what consumers really want, and establish a niche.

 

[pricescope]

GlitterGal, some internet vendors ship diamonds to independent appraisers before customer pay for it. Customer still have to pay for appraiser service separately. Thus apraiser is paid by the consumer and supposed to act on behalf of the consumer.

 

[baloo]

I pretty much did what Leonid said. I put down a $500 deposit on a stone, the dealer then sent it to the appraiser of my choice who then sent his report directly to me. If what was advertised didn't match the appraisal, I could get my $500 back. I paid for the appraisal directly.

All in all I am confident that the appraisal was unbiased and have subsequently purchased the stone.

 

[elmo]

What folks are forgetting is that SM basically doesn't give a flip about internet competition - he's selling hand fabricated jewelry in a distinctive style, arguably at a fair markup for the stones. It is a rather different operation from the finer internet diamond sellers here, and is probably closer to someone like Mark Morrell.

You are comparing apples and oranges.

 

[Mara]

Elmo--they also sell loose stones and most of Stuart's posts seemed to me to be not necessarily about the jewelry and designs persay...but rather the stones and how they sell %% off for great quality etc..while also saying that internet vendors mostly cannot meet or match discriminating customer expectations for both quality and service. That is what caught my eye..what I responded on.

 

[aljdewey]

My responses in blue:
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On 7/24/2003 11

2:59 AM elmo wrote:

What folks are forgetting is that SM basically doesn't give a flip about internet competition -

Elmo, I respectfully disagree. Evidentally he does care about it, or else he wouldn't have bothered to respond to an internet audience or have been concerned enough to invest time in responding to comments made about his organization to give them "the full picture". Also, he is developing a web presence---if that's not meant to attract internet business, I can't imagine what it's meant for.

he's selling hand fabricated jewelry in a distinctive style, arguably at a fair markup for the stones. It is a rather different operation from the finer internet diamond sellers here, and is probably closer to someone like Mark Morrell.

You are comparing apples and oranges.

It's appropriate to point out a few things here. First, the person who began the "comparison" between apples & oranges was Stuart himself. The original question by Stephsl was "I've heard SM charges 20% below retail...is this true". There was no "comparison" made between products until SM did so himself.

Second....yes, handcrafting is a different animal....and that means that SM is perhaps in league (from a product standpoint only) with Mark Morrell and Ray Elsey at Tradeshop. Based on Stuart's shortsighted comments, I personally feel that Mark and Ray FAR outclass Stuart from an overall business sense. Neither Mark nor Ray feels compelled to promote their businesses by trashing internet dealers or purchases. Neither feels it necessary to prey on consumers' fears about fraud to discourage a buyer from considering an online purchase as Stuart does.

Reread the comments that Stuart made:

STUART: "Customer No. 1, if they can determine that the Internet dealer isn’t one of those using forged G.I.A certificates or a “bucket shop”, should negotiate and buy the stone on the Internet, and (often) the dealer will throw in a stamped out, standard mounting for nothing."

This brash statement suggests two things: Customer 1 isn't bright enough or capable enough of doing the research to make sure an internet dealer is reputable, and 2) implies that the scenario of internet dealers being forgers or bucket shops is the more prevalent than it is....that it's the rule and not the exception.

STUART: "...all top jewelers react in the same way. (in refusing to set a stone purchased elsewhere.)

REALLY? Patently untrue....Mark Morrell and Ray Elsey are both master craftsmen, with over 30 years each in the business forging jewelry, and both of them will set stones purchased from vendors like WF, GOG, etc.

STUART: (Talking about the internet diamond purchaser who has to settle for a "second-tier" jeweler to set his stone)..."His fiancée will always know her engagement ring is second best."

I'm sorry, but this statement is just ludricrous. What is "best" or "second best" or otherwise depends on what's important to the buyer. For me, cut is king. For others, name/brand is king. For yet others, size is king. Please forgive my bluntness, but there is NO one-size-fits-all "best", and to suggest that anything other than a custom-made ring is second best is purely idiotic. Yes, the workmanship may be different, but a non-custom ring can and will last 40-50 years, too.

STUART: "Finally, Another difference between Internet based and bricks and mortar based brokers is that the potential for several types of fraud is increased because an Internet company can so easily be gone (or change identity) overnight."

Point taken to a degree, but the truth of the matter is this: ANY business can be gone tomorrow, whether it's B&M or internet. (Yes, an internet business can close today and reopen tomorrow under a new name, but believe me, so can B&M businesses. I've seen it happen with law firms, video stores, bridal shops, etc. There are NO iron-clad assurances.

STUART: "After all, you’re never going to convince me that the few percentage points of price that an internet diamond broker might save a client on a loose stone, can replace the kind of product and personal service we give, and I’m never going to convince you of the opposite."

One of the cardinal rules in sales/self-promotion is "know who your audience is". Based on the "B&M" statment and the above statement about a "few percentage points of price", it's clear to me that Stuart has no idea what the Pricescope crowd is all about.

He doesn't know that the "internet" vendors he's trashing are almost all B&M stores themselves....GOG, WF, etc. He doesn't know that they are much more than brokers....that Brian at WF cuts the stones himself. He doesn't know that WF has handcrafted custom pieces (like PQs necklace).

Stuart would do well to broaden his horizens a bit and learn that: most people who consider internet purchases don't do so for the "few percentage points"....it's not primarily about saving a buck with us. Most come to the internet because they want to make sense of the diamond-buying process and learn how to make a smart purchase. Most of us then subsequently learn so much that we become fixated on finding a BETTER quality stone than can be had at most B&M stores. Most of us are not about "slapping the stone into any non-descript setting"....which is why the names Mark Morrell, Tradeshop, Scott Kay, Verragio, etc. come up on this forum with regularity. As for customer service.....yes, customer service is worth a premium, but I guess it all depends on how you define "customer service". To me, customer service means a vendor who takes the time to learn what factors are important to me in my purchase and responds to provide those with a smile and with class (without trashing his competitors).

For Stuart's edification: I'm not in the business.....I'm just one more consumer whose motivated by facts and figures, not hype.

Just my humble $.02 cents. (Tim, it appears your loquaciousness is contagious!)

 

[MichaelF]

Glitter...

They are paying for the shipping if I buy the stone, I pay for the shipping if I return the stone... I pay for the appraisal $150.00 per hour regardless...

Hope that explains it...

Michael

 

[elmo]

----------------
On 7/24/2003 12

6:56 PM Mara wrote:

Elmo--they also sell loose stones and most of Stuart's posts seemed to me to be not necessarily about the jewelry and designs persay...but rather the stones and how they sell %% off for great quality etc..while also saying that internet vendors mostly cannot meet or match discriminating customer expectations for both quality and service. That is what caught my eye..what I responded on.
----------------

Have you been to his website? It is what I refer to...not a single diamond search page, just lots and lots of beautiful rings, reminds me much more of Cooper or JBStar than the diamond sellers here. His website leads me to believe he's a ring designer not an internet diamond broker. He wouldn't be the first "traditional jeweler" to not have a clue as to how the top internet sellers are eating their lunch

.

Too much to respond to in Al's post, some good points though. I think it boils down to who's work you like the best, who you want making your ring. Like you, I'd rather not have someone pushing their own stones, but he's entitled to that as his business model, again it's a more traditional way of doing business. As a side note, do you know how much hand fabrication Tradeshop really does? I thought all their rings were lost wax/cast not hand fabricated.

p.s. edit - I think the high-end ring designers like Moore are on the internet to improve visibility of their product, also due to "peer pressure", not to compete head to head with the brokers here.

 

[FW]

Mr. Moore,

Sorry to hear you didn't feel as welcome as you should be in this forum. I'm not the owner of the forum; I am a new member.

I'm even more sorry I wasn't a member at the time you were involved in this forum. I hope in some way, you stumble across this response.

I am a customer of your store in Newport Beach, California. I've been an admirer for at least ten years. And most importantly, I am now an owner of one of the most beautiful engagement rings ever (Steven Kretchmar setting, Asscher stone). If it wasn't for one of your jewelers, I would have never known about the setting or the stone. Strangers continuously ask me about my stone and remark on how beautiful the setting is. It's almost embarrassing how much attention my ring gets, especially when I'm out with other engaged/married girls wearing rings that don't get acknowledged (some with bigger rocks than mine).

To the rest of you, Stuart Moore stores provide the BEST customer service out there. I have heard nightmare stories from those who got a "great deal" from: jewelry marts, Los Angeles diamond brokers, internets, other chain jewelry stories including Robbins Bro's and family owned jewelry stores . Once they sell you the ring, it's all good, but should you have a need to go back to the retailer... beware. An engagement ring should last a lifetime. Take the few thousand dollars you'll save from another retailer (from your "great deal") and divide it by the maximum amount of years you plan to be married/alive. You'll end up with barely $5 a month and a lot less headaches. Is it really worth it to go out there for the "best deal" or is it worth it to have peace of mind and great customer service no matter how long you will be married or own that ring?

The best purchases ever made are through referrals. I, for one, am referring you to Stuart Moore stores. It's an incredible experience.

 

[mike04456]

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On 10/8/2003 7:04:43 PM FW wrote:





To the rest of you, Stuart Moore stores provide the BEST customer service out there. I have heard nightmare stories from those who got a 'great deal' from: jewelry marts, Los Angeles diamond brokers, internets, other chain jewelry stories including Robbins Bro's and family owned jewelry stores . Once they sell you the ring, it's all good, but should you have a need to go back to the retailer... beware. An engagement ring should last a lifetime. Take the few thousand dollars you'll save from another retailer (from your 'great deal') and divide it by the maximum amount of years you plan to be married/alive. You'll end up with barely $5 a month and a lot less headaches. Is it really worth it to go out there for the 'best deal' or is it worth it to have peace of mind and great customer service no matter how long you will be married or own that ring?

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Why do so many of these "testimonials" I see read like they were written by the recommended company's marketing department? It's a mystery of the Internet.

 

[derekinla]

I must say........ www.stuartmoore.com is a pretty slick site.

 

[valeria101]

----------------
On 5/30/2003 8:38:23 PM stuartmoore wrote:

Topic:
There is a better way – the Stuart Moore “package”.
----------------

Hi!

Really, it sounds like many guys here (see above, right?) are not in your market segment, but it might be easy to get them in. Quit the 'package' philosophy and allow people to choose stone off YOUR website. Then if you don't want to sell empty settings for stones purchased elsewhere, whatever. I do understand and stand by your opinion that it is somewhat debasing for the jeweler's craft to deliver anything else than complete products. But, if there are different, unrelated choices to be made for different parts of the product, then the buyer should be allowed to choose. Just picking up your example: ARMANI may not work somebody else's cloth, but you can be sure that one may hardly find better cloth than Armany uses! And yes, Armany does make suits on appointment for which customers get to choose the cloth... And so do the many taylors to which Armani goods would compare in a less than favorable way: in tayloring and jewelry choice too goes with luxury. Then, I would really appreciate to hear from you why is it a valuable exercise to argue against your customers?

 

[StVincent]

I have been to his store in Newport....I can't comment on how he handled himself here, but I do know that he has the best designs I have seen period. I can understand that the workmanship of others might be the same or even better, but the designs are unmatched. I am looking for a ring myself and would like to know of someone that will take a stone I have and make me a solitare setting ring for my Emerald cut diamond. I have the design drawn out. If needed I can do it on the computer 3D model. thanks!

 

[sumi]

Yes, I loooooove the jewelry at Stuart Moore. He doesn't design all of them though, there are a lot of designers from Europe and the US that are featured in his store. Some of the designers that he features are Henrich & Denzel (AMAZING designs!) and Christophe Blatte (I know I spelled that incorrectly).

I think SM falls in to the category of pieces that are really driven by design, and not just the materials used. You are paying a lot for the talent of the designers behind the pieces. I'm sure if you were just paying for the material of the piece, it wouldn't be as much. However, you do pay a premium for the designers. Since my husband is an architect, I understand that you do have to pay for the person who's working on the design. Especially when the design is the main driving force behind the piece, and not just the materials used. It's like art. The canvas and paint alone may not cost much, but the talent of the artist is what drives the price up.

I've been to the SM store in Newport Beach and it is REALLY expensive. I just go there to drool, but have not bought a piece. I can't comment on the service or the pricing.

 

[mike04456]

Noooooooooooo! Can please stop resurrecting one of the most unpleasant threads to ever curse this forum? Argh!

 

[godiva]

Does anyone know the URL to Stuart Moore's website?

Ya all got me curious.

 

[sumi]

www.stuartmoore.com



Ok! Ok! LawGem, I won't post anymore on this thread!! I promise!

I didn't realize it was such an unpleasant thread

Let's let this one sink back down.........

 

[godiva]

never mind. I found it. They are too modern looking.
LawGem... I won't post anymore either.

 

[Mara]

*bump*

ok ok just kidding.

 

[mike04456]

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On 2/3/2004 1:10:11 PM sumi wrote:





Ok! Ok! LawGem, I won't post anymore on this thread!! I promise!

I didn't realize it was such an unpleasant thread

Let's let this one sink back down.........
----------------

Hmm, actually this one isn't that unpleasant. I think I was mistaking it for another one, although this has its share of snippiness. I suppose it is worth reviewing on the neverending internet-vs.-B&M debate.

Nevermind.

 

[Griffin]

Just to throw in my two cents;

I agree with much of what Stuart says about the B&M business, and it's advantages for those who decide the value-add delivered by these stores is worth the premium - except for one thing; I know of a boatload of respected jewelers and designers, including some very exclusive ones, who welcome customer stones. Warmly.

As a designer, I generally loathe knock-offs and the people who do them, with one exception: If no one will sell the customer the mounting they want, >I'LL< make it gladly.
Fully HALF my business from private individuals comes from people who found just the mounting they wanted but the store wouldn't sell it to them simply because they wanted to do a remount or otherwise use thier own stone. I've even had a store refuse to sell a mounting and a sapphire for it, unless they also bought a loose diamond!

Customer service. Isn't that supposed to be part of the B&M advantage? Why isn't it in this case?

 

[mike04456]

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On 2/3/2004 6:41:47 PM Griffin wrote:





Fully HALF my business from private individuals comes from people who found just the mounting they wanted but the store wouldn't sell it to them simply because they wanted to do a remount or otherwise use thier own stone. I've even had a store refuse to sell a mounting and a sapphire for it, unless they also bought a loose diamond!

----------------

I've personally never understood this attitude. If a customer wants to purchase something you're selling, why not sell it? I would imagine these stores lose more business that way than they gain in diamond sales.

Fortunately, Stuart's snippiness on this subject is way off base in my experience. I have never had a problem having loose stones set, nor do I know anyone who has. I have helped relatives get center stones on the cheap, and no problems I know of have ensued in getting them set.

 

[tequila4gregg]

I was wondering if anyone could help me? I'm about to buy a ring from Stuart Moore's NYC store. I've read about some bad blood regarding him here on this board, but my girlfriend really loves his rings (we haven't found any other settings quite like his anywhere), so I'm pretty set on doing it--you got to get your lady what see wants!

They showed us some diamonds yesterday. Since the settings are expensive, and I don't have the money for a large stone, I was looking at a 0.54ct, princess cut, G, VS2 diamond. His quote was $2,350.

Question (1): Is this a decent price? I understand that you can get cheaper stones on-line, but since he doesn't allow outside stones I just want to make sure I'm not totally getting ripped off.

Question (2): They claim that smaller diamonds like this one don't come with G.I.A certificates. Their reasoning was that, since the diamonds at these lower ct sizes are so close to each other, and certification is around $150, that it's not something they do automatically. They offered to send it out for certification if i wished, at my cost, but said to keep the price of the stones lower they don't come with GIA certs. Is this something I should be worried about??

Many thanks,
Gregg

 

[quaeritur]

I've run a search for you to get an idea on prices. In my experience, it's rare to get a cert on something under 1/4 carat, but I would want a cert for sure on a half carat. Seems to me they're already charging plenty for the stone, and they should throw in the cert on their dime. Doesn't mean they will, of course...

[Edited to add] PS. The reason for the really tiny stones not getting certed is that for a $300 stone, it doesn't make much sense spending $200 on the cert. But $200 is a significantly lower percentage of the amount you were quoted...

 

[CaptAubrey]

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On 8/2/2004 9:44:08 AM tequila4gregg wrote:





I was wondering if anyone could help me? I'm about to buy a ring from Stuart Moore's NYC store. I've read about some bad blood regarding him here on this board, but my girlfriend really loves his rings (we haven't found any other settings quite like his anywhere), so I'm pretty set on doing it--you got to get your lady what see wants!

----------------

with stuart moore, you're paying largely for the settings, which are original designs and as i understand it, much more expensive to fabricate than most. you just need to decide if the total package is worth it you.

fwiw, plenty of 1/2 ct stones come with grading reports. many of the labs offer "mini-certs" for less than the price of a full report. they give the grade but not as much detail.