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Stone certification questions

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Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 5, 2010
Messages
706
I have this 11mm round rubellite that is set in a 3-stone trellis ring. I was recently asked by a potential buyer if the rubellite has a no-treatment certificate. The answer is no, because it came from Richard Homer, and I trust him and didn't ask for a certificate when I bought it. The stone went straight to Wink to get set in late 2010.

Now, could I send the ring to a lab to get a brief report on the rubellite? I don't want to remove the rubellite from the setting unless I have to. I know I should ask the lab about this, but I never sent any stone or jewelry to a lab before, and don't know how to contact them to initiate the process.

I see a sample of AIGS brief report below, but didn't find anything about shipping, handling, etc on their site:
http://www.aigsthailand.com/brief_report.aspx

Your help would be greatly appreciated.
 

Kismet

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 6, 2005
Messages
2,991
You can send mounted stones to AGL in New York. They charge you a a bit more (15% surcharge) for a mounted stone though. Give them a call and ask them about what they can detect in tourmalines though.
 

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Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 5, 2010
Messages
706
Kismet, thank you so much! I found AGL. Going to ask them now. :)
 

LD

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
9,621
Cookie - unfortunately a great deal of Rubellite is irradiated but on the positive side the process is stable. I believe that it can also be filled but I may just have made that up!!!!! Are treatments important to you? If not, then I wouldn't bother sending the stone to a lab and you should just enjoy it. If you feel you've paid a fair price then that's what matters. Irradiation of rubellite appears to be one of those treatments that "sort of" accepted by many. The minority are probably on this forum because we, typically, like all things as natural as possible! :lol:
 

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Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 5, 2010
Messages
706
LovingDiamonds --

No, I don't mind treatments myself, plus Richard Homer assured me it was not heated or irradiated. The only reason I am considering sending it to the lab is, I am looking to sell it (either separately or with the setting), and this one potential buyer wants to see a no-treatment certificate for the rubellite.
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
22,861
Cookie,
I think you may have to take Richard's word for it that it's not treated. I do not believe that irradiation in tourmaline is detectable. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
 

Pandora II

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Messages
9,613
Both heating and irradiation are undetectable in tourmaline - all a lab can tell you is that the stone is a tourmaline. Pretty much a waste of time and money sending it off.

Please note that there is no such thing as a certificate - it is a report... merely the opinion of a trained gemmologist. They are not a guarantee.
 

LD

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
9,621
Pandora/TL have I made it up about Rubellite being filled? I'm positive I've seen it somewhere but for the life of me can't find it anywhere. Can either of you recall anything?
 

Pandora II

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Messages
9,613
I don't recall anything in particular - will do a bit of a search.

On the otherhand, they seem to be having a bash at filling most things but not sure it's that common in things like spinel/tourmaline/garnets etc.

Spotting filled stones isn't actually that difficult once you've seen a few. A loupe and reflected light is often enough. The filler will have a different lustre so when you reflect light off the facet faces you can see where one material stops and another starts - a bit like when you are looking for garnet-topped doublets and the ilk.

There are also various colours of flash that are given off by fillers.

With a stone cut by Richard I would be 100% happy that it wasn't filled. The cutter will know if it is or not.
 

colormyworld

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
1,172
Tourmaline could be oiled like emeralds but I doubt tourmaline will survive the temperatures required for either glass or flux filling.
 

Pandora II

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Messages
9,613
I suppose they could also use epoxy resins like Opticon.

ETA: Just done some googling and it seems that there are polymer-filled tourmalines around. Specifically Paraiba/Paraiba-like, which would make some sense as they tend to be more included than most.

Again, picking it up should not be a difficult task.
 

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Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 5, 2010
Messages
706
Ah, so I should not even consider sending it to a lab. Thank you Pandora, you are so knowledgeable!

The website of Wild Fish Gems says that all their gems are natural, "No Heat, No Radiation, No Bleaching. No Oil, No Filler, No Diffusion. No BE, No Chemicals." I am curious, if certain treatment(s) cannot be detected, how do they make sure every gem is completely natural? Is that because they mine their own rough and cut it by themselves?
 

LD

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
9,621
Cookie|1318725144|3041250 said:
Ah, so I should not even consider sending it to a lab. Thank you Pandora, you are so knowledgeable!

The website of Wild Fish Gems says that all their gems are natural, "No Heat, No Radiation, No Bleaching. No Oil, No Filler, No Diffusion. No BE, No Chemicals." I am curious, if certain treatment(s) cannot be detected, how do they make sure every gem is completely natural? Is that because they mine their own rough and cut it by themselves?
Some treatments CAN be detected by instruments that vendors and serious collectors own. Some can even be detected with a loupe. However, there are some that categorically cannot be detected in this manner so you either have to know and trust the source (not recommended for collectors and even vendors can get unstuck but are better placed to make sure it's limited for them).

Some gemstones I would never buy without the comfort of a report i.e. corundum. Others such as Chrysoberyl I would feel happier buying without that assurance. Each family of gemstones has typical types of treatments and once you understand what treatments may/may not be applied you can make an informed decision whether a report is necessary.

Hope that helps.
 

Pandora II

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Messages
9,613
Cookie|1318725144|3041250 said:
Ah, so I should not even consider sending it to a lab. Thank you Pandora, you are so knowledgeable!

The website of Wild Fish Gems says that all their gems are natural, "No Heat, No Radiation, No Bleaching. No Oil, No Filler, No Diffusion. No BE, No Chemicals." I am curious, if certain treatment(s) cannot be detected, how do they make sure every gem is completely natural? Is that because they mine their own rough and cut it by themselves?
Some treatments just cannot be detected and so they have zero bearing on the value - for example the vast majority of rubellites are heated and irradiated. Since you can't tell which is and which isn't, the treatment is just ignored.

Some stones just aren't normally treated - most garnets, spinels, most tourmalines, chrysoberyl etc

Sometimes a vendor can have a very good idea of the route from mine to his hand. In Ed's case, he is based in Sri Lanka and will have relationships with various dealers where he can probably track the stones back to the actual hole in the ground.

There are also indications of treatments that can be picked up. For example, I don't feel the need to get certificates on corundum as I can easily spot whether they have been subjected to high heat and I'm fairly confident of spotting the signs of low-heat in supposedly unheated stones. Picking up fillers in stones is also not hard when you are looking for it.

For that reason, I would trust a lot of vendors - many of whom are qualified gemmologists - to have made the necessary checks.

Once you have ruled out high heat, you have also ruled out diffusion.

If I was spending $2k on a sapphire I would want a certificate, but otherwise I'd rather put the money into the stone. Granted that sending a stone to either SSEF, Gubelin or AGL is a major hassle since none are in the UK and overseas shipping of loose stones is not easy.
 

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Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 5, 2010
Messages
706
What about star rose quartz? Is it rarely heated or treated?
I just bought one from Ed (over $2k and not shipped yet). It comes with an AIGS brief report that says it is natural.
 

Pandora II

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Messages
9,613
Cookie|1318792541|3041565 said:
What about star rose quartz? Is it rarely heated or treated?
I just bought one from Ed (over $2k and not shipped yet). It comes with an AIGS brief report that says it is natural.
As far as I am aware, it isn't a material that is normal heated or treated.
 
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