Stand Alone Chubb Insurance Question

[snickerson]

Forgive me if this has been covered recently. The majority of posts I found via search were very old.

I am looking for an insurance policy on my fiancee's engagement ring, and eventually our wedding set. After searching and lurking on PS, I have concluded that a Chubb policy is what I'm looking for due to their no questions asked, cash out policy. Finding someone to write this policy is becoming a pain.

I have called a number of the agents in my area to inquire about a stand alone policy. Most of them gave me the "have to have homeowners through Chubb too." line. So I called Chubb and they told me it was up to the individual agent to offer jewelry policies stand alone.

So last week I found an agent who said she would write me a stand alone policy. But tonight I opened an email from her saying that Chubb has a $200,000 minimum for jewelry. Given the previous run around about homeowners, I'm not sure I believe this. I think it's more a case of "I don't want to waste my time writing a policy that will only pay me $10 commission."

Has anyone gotten a stand alone jewelry policy through Chubb recently?

Does anyone know if Chubb has a minimum amount for jewelry policies?

Does Chubb sell policies direct, so I don't have to deal with agents giving me the run around?

Does anyone know any agents who will write such a policy? I'm in Missouri but I don't have a problem calling an agent from another state, as long as they're licensed in MO.

Thanks.

 

[ame]

I use Luci Roth at Insurance Source in St. Louis. HOWEVER---everyone I have sent her since July has not been able to get the stand alone policy. I have been told that CHUBB changed their policy effective August 1, 2011, because too many people were filing false claims of loss to collect the money without replacing the supposedly lost rings and they no longer will write a standalone policy without a pretty high minimum value. 200K is probably pushing it, but I do know one person near 100K ring and she was told no in part because where she lived had a high rate of home burglary. Prior to that change at the beginning of August, it was at the agent/agency's discretion.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

This is good to know, Ame. There was someone recently (but before August) who was able to get a ring insured through Chubb, but it was about a 4 ct. stone. I guess I was lucky to get my policy when I did, because my total falls far below that amount! If they are getting a lot of claims on those smaller policies, I can't blame them for changing the rules.

 

[Haven]

Try William Castro at Total Dollar Insurance. http://www.totaldollar.com

I was referred to him through PS, and he's been very helpful to me and to others I've since sent to him.

William Castro
Account Executive
Phone: 516-833-1550

If you go to Total Dollar's website, you can find a link to email him through their "Our Staff" page, as well.

Please return and let us know if he's still writing the stand-alone policies. I think there has been a lot of misinformation about this topic in the past, so I'd love to hear what's really going on today.

 

[ame]

This is good to know, Ame. There was someone recently (but before August) who was able to get a ring insured through Chubb, but it was about a 4 ct. stone. I guess I was lucky to get my policy when I did, because my total falls far below that amount! If they are getting a lot of claims on those smaller policies, I can't blame them for changing the rules.

I referred one girl with a 3.4ct Tiffany ring and one agent would write it but it was an exhorbitant yearly rate. More than triple any other carrier. But the person I sent after had a custom cut and custom designed Crisscut ring that Cristopher himself created and custom cut for her, and was valued well into the 6 figures and she was told just two weeks ago that Chubb could not do that policy without her house and cars on it. My agent told her that as did every Chubb agent she called within 500 miles.

That really sucks too, because Chubb is THE BEST for ring insurance.

 

[snickerson]

Thanks for the quick responses everyone.

ame:
Luci is the person I talked to who told me that there is a $200k minimum. If their policy is really to insure jewelry at upwards of $200,000, that seems a little steep to me too.

Haven:
Thanks for the contact info. I sent Mr. Castro an email via totaldollar. I will be sure to keep everyone posted on what he tells me.

This is becoming such a pain. I don't think I'd be as annoyed if the insurance agents would just give me a straight answer.

 

[bunnysparkle]

Snickerson--My husband and I had a stand-alone policy (we now have a policy which includes our home, though they are still two separate policies). Last spring, we contacted our agent (outside of Chicago) and they allowed us to have the stand-alone. We also included other jewelry and watches besides the engagement ring. I believe there may have been a 10k minimum, but we definitely met the minimum. However, definitely didn't have anything close to the 200k minimum. That sounds ridiculous. I am under the impression discretion lies in the hands of the agents. We were lucky to find someone (at the first try) to accommodate us. Later, when we called around different home insurance companies, our agent also gave us an additional discount because we had a policy with them for jewelry. We had a win-win situation, so we're quite happy with Chubb.

Hope you can find a working resolution with an agent in your area!

 

[bunnysparkle]

Oops--I didn't see the info about the policy change as of August 1--hopefully it's not that rigid!

 

[makhro82]

I contacted Chubb when looking to get my ring insured and I guess it wasn't "valuable" enough to them to cover it. Chubb had such a great reputation here that I figured I would used them. When I got rejected I called right over to my home/auto guy and he got me the perfect coverage. When my e-ring got damaged a few months back they were very swift in giving me a check and worked with Mark @ ERD to assess the replacement costs because of the fact that platinum and diamonds had gone up and to see what parts could be salvaged from current ring! I had a very positive experience with Travelers and have not questioned my decision to use them at all. It may be worth it to see if they offer any stand alone policies.

 

[TristanC]

I'm actually having trouble getting insurance companies to consider this kind of policy where I am, so this thread is proving helpful. I checked out Chubb, and I believe the total value of jewellery being insured must be around $200k for them to underwrite it. Need alternatives...

 

[anne_h]

Interesting.

I'm in Canada and have the same problem. Chubb provides by far the best jewelry policy, but an insurance agent I contacted told me Chubb no longer offers the stand-alone jewelry policy at all.

She said I have to have my home insurance through Chubb also to qualify. I definitely would switch, but we own a condo and our condo building insurance is through a larger commercial carrier (covering all the units and whole building) so I can't switch that myself. So we have contents insurance ourselves, but she said that would not be enough for Chubb to give us the jewelry policy.

She said the reason they stopped covering jewelry standalone was that it was meant to be a "starter" type of coverage - like young executives getting engaged, getting the ring covered, and then the plan was then they'd go to Chubb when they bought their big house and fancy cars. Apparently this was not working out for them. This is how she described it.

Boo! Very frustrating.

My other problem is that Jewelers Mutual does not cover in Quebec (where I am). Other provinces are covered. I did find only one insurer in Quebec who *would* insure my jewelry stand-alone, but they refused to document that they would let me choose my own diamond if something happened to my e-ring. I searched forever for my beautiful antique stone and custom VC setting, so I don't want "something similar" they may find for cheap.

Bleh.

Anne

 

[denverappraiser]

Interesting.

I'm in Canada and have the same problem. Chubb provides by far the best jewelry policy, but an insurance agent I contacted told me Chubb no longer offers the stand-alone jewelry policy at all.

She said I have to have my home insurance through Chubb also to qualify. I definitely would switch, but we own a condo and our condo building insurance is through a larger commercial carrier (covering all the units and whole building) so I can't switch that myself. So we have contents insurance ourselves, but she said that would not be enough for Chubb to give us the jewelry policy.

She said the reason they stopped covering jewelry standalone was that it was meant to be a "starter" type of coverage - like young executives getting engaged, getting the ring covered, and then the plan was then they'd go to Chubb when they bought their big house and fancy cars. Apparently this was not working out for them. This is how she described it.

Boo! Very frustrating.

My other problem is that Jewelers Mutual does not cover in Quebec (where I am). Other provinces are covered. I did find only one insurer in Quebec who *would* insure my jewelry stand-alone, but they refused to document that they would let me choose my own diamond if something happened to my e-ring. I searched forever for my beautiful antique stone and custom VC setting, so I don't want "something similar" they may find for cheap.

Bleh.

Anne

Sorry for the threadjack Snickerson but it sounds like Anne is answering a question that gets regularly asked and unanswered in other threads and although this doesn't relate to your issue, it may help others later. Anne, who did you find that is willing to write a standalone jewelry policy in Quebec? If I may also ask, what are your coverage limits and premiums?

 

[Winkin]

I use Luci Roth at Insurance Source in St. Louis. HOWEVER---everyone I have sent her since July has not been able to get the stand alone policy. I have been told that CHUBB changed their policy effective August 1, 2011, because too many people were filing false claims of loss to collect the money without replacing the supposedly lost rings and they no longer will write a standalone policy without a pretty high minimum value. 200K is probably pushing it, but I do know one person near 100K ring and she was told no in part because where she lived had a high rate of home burglary. Prior to that change at the beginning of August, it was at the agent/agency's discretion.

Interesting information, Ame. I had a stand alone policy written at the very end of July for Chubbs, so I cannot comment on the August 1 policy change. My policy had to have a minimum of 15k coverage, and ran a little under $200 a year. I found the underwriter, who is based in DC, through PS. I talked to them, and they cover a wide variety of states, not just the DC / Virginia area, so it may be worth it for you to contact them and see their current policies. The agent is:

Flather & Perkins, INC.
888 17th St NW # 508, Washington D.C., DC
(202) 466-8888

I spoke to Georgia, who others on PS have spoken to, as well. She was extremely helpful and very nice throughout the whole process. Good luck!

 

[anne_h]

Sorry for the threadjack Snickerson but it sounds like Anne is answering a question that gets regularly asked and unanswered in other threads and although this doesn't relate to your issue, it may help others later. Anne, who did you find that is willing to write a standalone jewelry policy in Quebec? If I may also ask, what are your coverage limits and premiums?

Hi Denver Appraiser / Neil,

The only one I found so far in Quebec was Morin Elliott (affiliated with Lloyds of London).

I seem to recall there was a minimum coverage requirement (I want to say 20k but I don't remember anymore).

I think my quote for 40k coverage came out to $1400/year.

I got all this info through a local insurance broker in my area.

The policy was nowhere near as nice as Chubbs. They seemed weirded out by my request to choose my own replacement diamond and setting in the event of a covered loss. So far I have not signed up.

Another possibility may be TD Home Insurance, through whom I also have my contents insurance. They said they "may" cover my jewelry, but they wanted a ton of detailed info to even see if they would cover it, or even do a quote. I hate dealing with them so have not pursued it.

Anne

 

[denverappraiser]

I can’t say much for Canada but I’m pretty up on the way it works in the US. I have plenty of clents who have run into the Chubb minimum as a barrier and I know that some agents won’t do it at all but I have not heard of the Aug 1 change and them getting out of the business entirely. That is, of course, their call. Frankly I’m not surprised. It strikes me as a bad business model on their part anyway.

What clobbers most people about Chubb is the price. Chubb policies are anywhere from 2 – 3 times the price of ‘replacement’ type policies with similar limits from other companies. That’s because of consumer fraud. Yep, people defraud their insurance companies. It’s COMMON for jewelers to sell things for less than they’re ‘worth’ and use an appraisal to demonstrate this. Not surprisingly, things insured for inflated cash value with this sort of documentation tend to get lost more often than things that are documented in a reasonable way. Who would have guessed? That means that they not only are paying out more for a particular loss, they get more losses from the customer base in the first place. That’s the reason for the whole ‘replacement’ industry. It’s a defense against consumers, appraisers, jewelers who are living in a fantasy about what they have and what the company should have to do to make them whole again.

I explain that not as an excuse for the insurance companies but rather as an explanation for why they are acting the way they are acting. As a reasonable an honorable consumer, the solution for YOU is to submit reasonable documentation. In a replacement type policy, like the ones offered by Jewelers Mutual for example, they are agreeing to replace a lost item with another of ‘like kind and quality’, and they are agreeing to pay a reasonable price to do that up to the policy limit. The key problem is defining ‘like kind and quality’. This is what your appraisal is for. A Rolex can be correctly described as a gold colored mens watch. It can also be correctly described using the model number, serial number, condition, style, photographs, etc. The price can be the same either way. This description is what’s going to be used at replacement time to get the replacement, NOT THE PRICE. Are they obligated to get a gold colored watch or a particular condition of a particular model number genuine Rolex product? What about diamonds? Is an ‘approximately 1.00ct/VS1/I/round’ the same thing as a ‘1.10ct, GIA graded, VS1, H, xxx with h&a’? It might be, and both descriptions could easily be of the same stone but the behavior at replacement time will be VERY different. The cost to replace can easily differ by a factor of 2 here but, again, the difference is in the description, not the value conclusion and not the policy limit.

When people feel they are getting burned by replacement policies, it almost always starts with a weak appraisal and they ended up there because they wanted to save the $100 on the front end or they just didn’t know any better. I don’t mean to sound snarkey or unsympathetic here but there’s a huge self -component to this. The companies are agreeing to a contract wherein they are agreeing to replace using that description. If they don’t like it, they can decline the policy. Assuming there’s no suspicion of fraud involved, mostly they seem to do it (although the do occasionally put up a fight). If you get reasonable paperwork in the first place and you understand the rules of your coverage, replacement policies are NOT the disaster that gets described online. The jewelers like to pass out fantasy appraisals because it makes people feel good and the insurance companies accept them because they get higher premiums without increasing the cost of replacement.

 

[cherrera]

I am an insurance agent who is licensed and appointed to write Chubb in all 50 states, although my primary state is California. Keep in mind that each state or country that Chubb writes business in has a different underwriting guide, minimum premiums, appraisal guidelines, etc. In California, the minimum premium is on $50, there is no minimum insured value, and they can write a stand-alone policy. They have a cash-out policy which is also why it might, though not always, more expensive than the replacement type of policy. To be honest, I have a replacement type of policy myself. If I have a claim I want my jewelry replaced I don't care how or where because it's going to be replaced with the same size, cut, clarity, etc., as what I had before. The insurance company isn't going to make you get a "G" color when you were insuring a "C" color.

That being said, independant agents also have their guidelines as to what will then fit their business model. My guess is that if you are looking for a quote on your home, auto, AND jewelry, you will get a much different response than if you just want a jewelry policy. Even if you don't qualify for Chubb home and/or auto, most agents have other markets for the home/auto and then they would be more likely to write your Chubb jewelry policy.

Fraud is definately a concern for both Chubb (any insurance company) and the agent, and should be for consumers because ultimately we all pay for fraud. Agents also have cause to use their business model to determine whether or not someone might be a good risk. Insurance company's reward agencies for bringing them good business. There's no benefit to selling a policy that is going to pay out more than it collected. An agency is going to be more profitable for writing a quality client...period.

I was referred to this site by a gal who I am writing a stand-alone Chubb policy for her engagement ring. She is getting married and lives at home with her parents. I expressed my expectation to have the opportunity to quote her marital home and cars. I want her dealings with me to grow as she and her family grows. I expect to be one of her "trusted advisors", not just someone who sold her a policy.

Hopefully this information will help someone in their search.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Well that is very good to know that Chubb is still a possibility. Sounds like it takes finding an agent who wants to write the policy.

I did want to clear up one misconception, however. My Chubb policy is definitely not 2-3 times more than my former replacement coverage policy! I have about $30,000 of coverage with a Chubb premium of $328 a year whereas my homeowners was about $1 per thousand so around $300 per year. I do know that rates vary depending on area, and we are not in a high crime area, thankfully. So maybe Chubb charges more in other areas, but I found the Chubb rates to be excellent for a cash out policy. And we do not have a homeowners policy with them either.

 

[ame]

Im curious where I can get a C colored diamond.

 

[Crowned]

Not sure of the rules here, but is Cherrera allowed to post her contact info?

 

[ame]

Not to my knowledge.

 

[denverappraiser]

Well that is very good to know that Chubb is still a possibility. Sounds like it takes finding an agent who wants to write the policy.

I did want to clear up one misconception, however. My Chubb policy is definitely not 2-3 times more than my former replacement coverage policy! I have about $30,000 of coverage with a Chubb premium of $328 a year whereas my homeowners was about $1 per thousand so around $300 per year. I do know that rates vary depending on area, and we are not in a high crime area, thankfully. So maybe Chubb charges more in other areas, but I found the Chubb rates to be excellent for a cash out policy. And we do not have a homeowners policy with them either.

Where are you? Who is your agent?

 

[Crowned]

Not to my knowledge.

I pretty much thought that would be the answer. Hopefully whoever sent her here will give us some contact information. I'm pretty sure that sort of reccomendation is perfectly acceptable.

 

[Glitteratti]

Yes, I'd be curious to know this as well.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Well that is very good to know that Chubb is still a possibility. Sounds like it takes finding an agent who wants to write the policy.

I did want to clear up one misconception, however. My Chubb policy is definitely not 2-3 times more than my former replacement coverage policy! I have about $30,000 of coverage with a Chubb premium of $328 a year whereas my homeowners was about $1 per thousand so around $300 per year. I do know that rates vary depending on area, and we are not in a high crime area, thankfully. So maybe Chubb charges more in other areas, but I found the Chubb rates to be excellent for a cash out policy. And we do not have a homeowners policy with them either.

Where are you? Who is your agent?

I do not know if they are currently writing policies, because I got my policy 5 or 6 years ago. But I have the current bill due in Feb. and it is $328. for just under $30k coverage. The state is NC and the insurance agency that carries Chubb is Watson Insurance.

 

[Amys Bling]

I use Luci Roth at Insurance Source in St. Louis. HOWEVER---everyone I have sent her since July has not been able to get the stand alone policy. I have been told that CHUBB changed their policy effective August 1, 2011, because too many people were filing false claims of loss to collect the money without replacing the supposedly lost rings and they no longer will write a standalone policy without a pretty high minimum value. 200K is probably pushing it, but I do know one person near 100K ring and she was told no in part because where she lived had a high rate of home burglary. Prior to that change at the beginning of August, it was at the agent/agency's discretion.

Good to know.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I believe Owies Nana was recently able to get a Chubb policy on her stone because it is high value. Plus I think in cases like that, they can see that the person doesn't have any past history that would indicate risk for insurance fraud. So there are probably many factors involved in whether an agent will write a policy. My policy doesn't cover as much as Owies Nana's, but we were low risk due to the fact we have never made a claim for scheduled property in 35 years.

 

[Logan Sapphire]

This probably isn't a helpful reply, but I have a stand-alone Chubb policy through Willam Castro as well, but I got it years ago. I do have more than just my ering on it, but my ering is not worth nearly as much as many people's rings.

 

[tenyearanniversary]

I just signed up for a standalone Chubbs jewelry policy. It was around $1250/year for $55k coverage. I'm in NYC.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I just signed up for a standalone Chubbs jewelry policy. It was around $1250/year for $55k coverage. I'm in NYC.

It would be helpful if you'd name your agent as there are others looking for agents who will write standalone policies. It could be that they have a minimum they will insure for since yours is a high amount.

 

[Phoenix]

I'm actually having trouble getting insurance companies to consider this kind of policy where I am, so this thread is proving helpful. I checked out Chubb, and I believe the total value of jewellery being insured must be around $200k for them to underwrite it. Need alternatives...

Tristan, I have insurance with Chubb and there's no requirement on the min amount of sum assured for jewellery, but they do require that you have Contents insurance with them as well (the latter at 0.38% and you can insure only a small amt). If you're interested, contact me via DB (preloved forum), and I can give you details of my insurance broker.