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Special technique for setting Blue Diamond Melee?...or technique(s) to avoid...???

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asquareguy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 27, 2004
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87
Hi Folks,

After reading this thread, I have concerns about setting my blue melee...any thoughts from the Pros, or those who have had colored diamonds flush set ?


The thread doesn't seem to have been resolved, as to this question (possible loss of color if heat is used?). What is the technique that will be used to set my stones in the band, does it use heat? Do I need to talk to Bob @ WF?

The pic here is through the gracious and skilled work of Irina, of my band being made by WhiteFlash:

(the left panel is Photoshopped to show the blue melee, the original is from WF, of the wax model)

Oh, here is the link to the orig. thread with untouched photo

Thank you Irina !

wax photoshop w blue stones.jpg
 

kroshka

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 30, 2004
Messages
563
Hi asquareguy,

First of all - just wanted to say what beautiful rings! And your blue diamonds are absolutely stunning.

I'm not an expert, but a consumer and great admirer of colored diamonds. From what I know of colored diamonds - if they are natural, heat should not change their color. I read the other thread that worried you, and I have not heard of blues getting changed from heat unless they were treated blues. Also, the folks are Whiteflash are true professionals and I'm sure they could answer your question in regards to if a high amount of heat would be used to set the stones flush. Hopefully an expert will also chime in and answer your question and calm your fears, but I thought I'd add in my 2cents of knowledge.

BTW, could you possibly share where you found your wonderful blues? I've been looking myself for some natural blue rounds for years and have not been able to locate any that matched and were of a discernible blue color like yours.

kroshka
 

starryeyed

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
2,398
Hi SquareGuy. I can understand your concerns after reading that thread. Griffin cites some empirical evidence of blue diamonds changing color.

I guess I would want to know more about this too. Like, what is the scientific reason for the color change in both heat-treated AND natural blue stones? Why would this happen to blue stones, but not any other color? Hmmm...

I am so excited for you to get your ring! I''m sure it will exceed your expectations!
 

CaptAubrey

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2004
Messages
863
Irradiated blue diamonds will most certainly change color if heated to a high enough temperature. In fact, that's how you get irradiated colors other than blue or green, by heating under the right conditions after the treatment.

However, I doubt that a jeweler's torch would be sufficient to do it--at least, I've never heard of that happening.


Edit: Just read that linked thread. Indeed, casting in place is a whole different matter.
 

asquareguy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 27, 2004
Messages
87
Date: 3/27/2007 3:59:03 PM
Author: CaptAubrey
Irradiated blue diamonds will most certainly change color if heated to a high enough temperature. In fact, that''s how you get irradiated colors other than blue or green, by heating under the right conditions after the treatment.

However, I doubt that a jeweler''s torch would be sufficient to do it--at least, I''ve never heard of that happening.


Edit: Just read that linked thread. Indeed, casting in place is a whole different matter.
CaptAubrey,

These stones are not irradiated, but it was the mention of even natural blues losing heat that originally concerned me. That, and the lack of consensus as to whether it would, or not.

Bob @ WF did discuss my concern (color loss with heat) with his jeweler; the stones will be burnished by hand, so no additional heat- such as a torch, good to know.

NOW, I get what would cause the heat mentioned in the other thread, are you saying that some rings have the liquid (hot) metal going in to the mold with the stone in there already? That certainly seems like a lot of heat!

Thanks for the input all,
 

Apocalypse

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 10, 2007
Messages
63
No solutions about the melee but just wanted to say I LOVE your asscher and setting!

Gorgeous!
 

pricescope

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
8,266
asquareguy, natural untreated blue diamonds have been already exposed to heat ( much higher than at jewelers bench) while forming and kept their Boron (that's why they are blue). Nitrogen, the most common contaminate in diamond lattice absorbs blue part of the visible spectrum - the less Nitrogen/more Boron means more blue light reflected, but for Boron it is much, much harder to get into diamond then for Nitrogen that's why blue diamonds are so rare.

When your ring is going to be ready? I mean my photoshop sucks i did not realise it's that dark, it's going to be more bright i think.
 

asquareguy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 27, 2004
Messages
87
Date: 3/27/2007 10:30:41 PM
Author: Pricescope
asquareguy, natural untreated blue diamonds have been already exposed to heat ( much higher than at jewelers bench) while forming and kept their Boron (that''s why they are blue). Nitrogen, the most common contaminate in diamond lattice absorbs blue part of the visible spectrum - the less Nitrogen/more Boron means more blue light reflected, but for Boron it is much, much harder to get into diamond then for Nitrogen that''s why blue diamonds are so rare.

When your ring is going to be ready? I mean my photoshop sucks i did not realise it''s that dark, it''s going to be more bright i think.
Irina,

Wow, that is a lot of science to absorb this late at night, but I think I get it. I also appreciate your reassurance, but I must disagree with one thing - You rock at Photoshop ! I could never get that perspective, with the size ratios, and other details you asked me about before creating the photo. Thanks again!

About the timeline for the ring...alas, I will be getting it in June. Our finances are recovering from buying a beautiful new home last month, and Bob was wonderful in letting me delay until then.

You will be the first I share the real photos with. I do have a crappy camera for macro, though. My shots are are unusable, so for hand shots, I will need to borrow a camera, or buy a new one, we''ll see...I''ve got two months until the two rings are together...

Cheers,
 

CaptAubrey

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2004
Messages
863
Date: 3/27/2007 7:27:58 PM
Author: asquareguy

NOW, I get what would cause the heat mentioned in the other thread, are you saying that some rings have the liquid (hot) metal going in to the mold with the stone in there already? That certainly seems like a lot of heat!
You betcha. The stones are mounted in the wax model, the cast is poured around it, the wax is melted out, and the metal is poured into the cast. When the metal cools and solidifies, the stones are now set in place. It''s most often used for mass-produced pieces.



Date: 3/27/2007 10:30:41 PM
Author: Pricescope
asquareguy, natural untreated blue diamonds have been already exposed to heat ( much higher than at jewelers bench) while forming and kept their Boron (that''s why they are blue). Nitrogen, the most common contaminate in diamond lattice absorbs blue part of the visible spectrum - the less Nitrogen/more Boron means more blue light reflected, but for Boron it is much, much harder to get into diamond then for Nitrogen that''s why blue diamonds are so rare.
I have to say I am also dubious about this idea that natural blues can lose their color if heated.

I''ve never heard anything of the sort, though no sane person would conduct such experiments with natural blues given their rarity and value. Diamonds can get very hot during polishing, and I''ve never heard of blues shifting color during the manufacturing process. Other colors, yes, but not blue.

I also have a hard time understanding how it could happen. Irradiated blues lose their color because the annealing process relaxes the radiation damage to the diamond lattice that causes a blue color. The same process, to my knowledge, would not cause boron impurities to diffuse out of the diamond. Type Ia gray-blue Argyles (colored by hydrogen, not boron) might be a different story but I would still be surprised--and these blues are extremely rare.
 

JohnQuixote

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
5,212
Date: 3/28/2007 3:52:37 PM
Author: CaptAubrey

Date: 3/27/2007 7:27:58 PM
Author: asquareguy

NOW, I get what would cause the heat mentioned in the other thread, are you saying that some rings have the liquid (hot) metal going in to the mold with the stone in there already? That certainly seems like a lot of heat!
You betcha. The stones are mounted in the wax model, the cast is poured around it, the wax is melted out, and the metal is poured into the cast. When the metal cools and solidifies, the stones are now set in place. It''s most often used for mass-produced pieces.
The Captain speaks true. For the record, since this thread concerns a WF piece, we never cast this way.
 

asquareguy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 27, 2004
Messages
87
Captaubrey and JohnQuixote,

Thank you very much for the reassurance. I did go back to the papers on the stones that state that the blues are indeed blue due to the boron, so I''m fine with this issue, it''s just that original post that was unresolved on the matter.

I appreciate everyones comments and I can''t wait for June; I can, of course, I just don''t want to...
 
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