Someone please tell me that this isn't true...

[iheartscience]

The direction of my country currently terrifies me.

Ditto. I'm shocked that any person, but particularly any woman, thinks it's acceptable that the rights of an unborn fetus are more important than the rights of an autonomous human being. The paternalistic slant of these laws is disgusting, and the fact that they're accepted by anyone, but in particular women, is truly terrifying.

What's next-pregnant women are prohibited from driving because they could get in accident and kill their fetus? Pregnant women can't eat deli meat because they might catch listeria and kill their fetus?

A woman is more than a vessel for an unborn child.

 

[DivaDiamond007]

Ohio just passed in the House that abortions would be illegal if there has been a heartbeat detected. This law would make Ohio the most restrictive in the country when it comes to abortion laws.



Yay for just having moved across the river to Kentucky....which is kinda funny that moving to a place that seems a bit less progressive actually isn't as crazy as the state I was born and raised!

Really? I live in Ohio so I am interested....

An abortion would be illegal if there has been a heartbeat dected? That could be so early on - some might not even be aware they are pregnant that early! Wow, just WOW. I am appalled. Completely appalled.

Where is the punishment for the men involved in aborted pregnancies? Do they go to jail too? Have to pay a fine? Get sterilized?

I am so disgusted I can't even think straight!

 

[charbie]

The direction of my country currently terrifies me.

Ditto. I'm shocked that any person, but particularly any woman, thinks it's acceptable that the rights of an unborn fetus are more important than the rights of an autonomous human being. The paternalistic slant of these laws is disgusting, and the fact that they're accepted by anyone, but in particular women, is truly terrifying.

What's next-pregnant women are prohibited from driving because they could get in accident and kill their fetus? Pregnant women can't eat deli meat because they might catch listeria and kill their fetus?

A woman is more than a vessel for an unborn child.

My name is Charbie, and I am 29 weeks pregnant.
I usually drink a can of diet coke each day, and lately since I have been having a cup of coffee each morning as well.
I also have eaten a tuna sandwich probably once every week or every other week while pregnant. I crave them to be honest.
Lately I have eaten roast beef sandiches for lunch. My husband makes one for me when he makes his own lunch. I enjoy them evenn. More bc he makes them.
Once, when I was 7 weeks pregnant, I had a piece of sashimi.

Maybe my doctor should have child protective services waiting at the hospital for me when I give birth in ~11 weeks. Then again, he never once asked me about my diet, never had any suggestions on foods I should or shouldn't eat. So maybe they should strip his license for not providing me with proper education on the risks of eating a sandwich while pregnant. Or maybe im supposed to learn how to treat my body while pregnant from the internet. Bc, you know, if its on the internet, it is true.

 

[charbie]

Ohio just passed in the House that abortions would be illegal if there has been a heartbeat detected. This law would make Ohio the most restrictive in the country when it comes to abortion laws.



Yay for just having moved across the river to Kentucky....which is kinda funny that moving to a place that seems a bit less progressive actually isn't as crazy as the state I was born and raised!

Really? I live in Ohio so I am interested....

An abortion would be illegal if there has been a heartbeat dected? That could be so early on - some might not even be aware they are pregnant that early! Wow, just WOW. I am appalled. Completely appalled.

Where is the punishment for the men involved in aborted pregnancies? Do they go to jail too? Have to pay a fine? Get sterilized?

I am so disgusted I can't even think straight!

Hello neighbor! Im on my phone so I can't link....but google ohio abortion law and you'll get a bunch of articles on it....I heard a lot about it on the news last night. It is sickening. I don't know what the next step is before it becomes a law, but yup, this is how far they are going to prevent abortion in "our" state. (I am having a hard time saying im from KY....I've only ever lived in Ohio!)

 

[TooPatient]

Ohio just passed in the House that abortions would be illegal if there has been a heartbeat detected. This law would make Ohio the most restrictive in the country when it comes to abortion laws.



Yay for just having moved across the river to Kentucky....which is kinda funny that moving to a place that seems a bit less progressive actually isn't as crazy as the state I was born and raised!

Really? I live in Ohio so I am interested....

An abortion would be illegal if there has been a heartbeat dected? That could be so early on - some might not even be aware they are pregnant that early! Wow, just WOW. I am appalled. Completely appalled.

Where is the punishment for the men involved in aborted pregnancies? Do they go to jail too? Have to pay a fine? Get sterilized?

I am so disgusted I can't even think straight!

Ohio Administrative Code 3701-47 LINK

I see nothing limiting abortions to that timeframe. Unless there is something new that is still not published here, then this is the most current code.


ETA: I have to run to class, but here is the LINKto get to the search for new legislation.

 

[iheartscience]

The direction of my country currently terrifies me.

Ditto. I'm shocked that any person, but particularly any woman, thinks it's acceptable that the rights of an unborn fetus are more important than the rights of an autonomous human being. The paternalistic slant of these laws is disgusting, and the fact that they're accepted by anyone, but in particular women, is truly terrifying.

What's next-pregnant women are prohibited from driving because they could get in accident and kill their fetus? Pregnant women can't eat deli meat because they might catch listeria and kill their fetus?

A woman is more than a vessel for an unborn child.

My name is Charbie, and I am 29 weeks pregnant.
I usually drink a can of diet coke each day, and lately since I have been having a cup of coffee each morning as well.
I also have eaten a tuna sandwich probably once every week or every other week while pregnant. I crave them to be honest.
Lately I have eaten roast beef sandiches for lunch. My husband makes one for me when he makes his own lunch. I enjoy them evenn. More bc he makes them.
Once, when I was 7 weeks pregnant, I had a piece of sashimi.

Maybe my doctor should have child protective services waiting at the hospital for me when I give birth in ~11 weeks. Then again, he never once asked me about my diet, never had any suggestions on foods I should or shouldn't eat. So maybe they should strip his license for not providing me with proper education on the risks of eating a sandwich while pregnant. Or maybe im supposed to learn how to treat my body while pregnant from the internet. Bc, you know, if its on the internet, it is true.

I've already called the local authorities and told on you. I'm assuming Pricescope will be happy to assist them in pinpointing your location via IP address. CHILD ENDANGERER!

 

[yennyfire]

The direction of my country currently terrifies me.

Ditto. I'm shocked that any person, but particularly any woman, thinks it's acceptable that the rights of an unborn fetus are more important than the rights of an autonomous human being. The paternalistic slant of these laws is disgusting, and the fact that they're accepted by anyone, but in particular women, is truly terrifying.

What's next-pregnant women are prohibited from driving because they could get in accident and kill their fetus? Pregnant women can't eat deli meat because they might catch listeria and kill their fetus?

A woman is more than a vessel for an unborn child.

My name is Charbie, and I am 29 weeks pregnant.
I usually drink a can of diet coke each day, and lately since I have been having a cup of coffee each morning as well.
I also have eaten a tuna sandwich probably once every week or every other week while pregnant. I crave them to be honest.
Lately I have eaten roast beef sandiches for lunch. My husband makes one for me when he makes his own lunch. I enjoy them evenn. More bc he makes them.
Once, when I was 7 weeks pregnant, I had a piece of sashimi.

Maybe my doctor should have child protective services waiting at the hospital for me when I give birth in ~11 weeks. Then again, he never once asked me about my diet, never had any suggestions on foods I should or shouldn't eat. So maybe they should strip his license for not providing me with proper education on the risks of eating a sandwich while pregnant. Or maybe im supposed to learn how to treat my body while pregnant from the internet. Bc, you know, if its on the internet, it is true.

Charbie, I am actually suprised that your dr. didn't give you the information about the possibilities of listeria infection from eating deli meat. Each time I was pg, my dr. reviewed with me what I should eat versus what I should limit, verus what I should not eat at all. Once she informed me, the decision became mine to make. If something happened to you or your baby, would you not hold your dr. responsible since s/he didn't discuss it with you? I'm not saying that you shouldn't eat deli meat, but that you should have been told about the possible risks so that you could make an informed decision (I'm using deli meat as the example, but you could insert anything here: caffeine, fish with a high mecury content, alcohol, etc.)

On a slight side note, as I said, I've had 2 miscarriages and when I went into the hospital to give birth to my second child, I noticed on my records that it said "2 abortions". I was really upset and asked the dr. about it. She told me that any loss is called an abortion. I was really shocked, because to me, abortion constitutes a conscious decision, while miscarriage does not.

 

[Lauren8211]

The direction of my country currently terrifies me.

Ditto. I'm shocked that any person, but particularly any woman, thinks it's acceptable that the rights of an unborn fetus are more important than the rights of an autonomous human being. The paternalistic slant of these laws is disgusting, and the fact that they're accepted by anyone, but in particular women, is truly terrifying.

What's next-pregnant women are prohibited from driving because they could get in accident and kill their fetus? Pregnant women can't eat deli meat because they might catch listeria and kill their fetus?

A woman is more than a vessel for an unborn child.

Amen, Thing!

Ya know, I also visit TheBump every once in a while (which, oddly, is less interesting and informative than PS's family/pregnancy boards), and it disturbs me even there how often people (pregnant women!) put the fetus before the woman! So many times there were women who were pregnant and considering terminating, and a strong majority of women were pressing (read: guilting) for her to give her "baby" up for adoption. While I think adoption is a wonderful gift, since when are women OBLIGATED to carry babies for other women?? There is nothing more infuriating to me than exactly what you said, Thing - women are considered vessels for unborn children.

Along with Charbie, I have coke nearly EVERY day (ZOMG 35 mg of caffeine!!!), I ate a couple of HOT DOGS, a tuna roll, and even a club sandwich without reheating it first!! I think I had a (heh -yes, just one!) nitrate too! Someone lock us up!

 

[charbie]

The direction of my country currently terrifies me.

Ditto. I'm shocked that any person, but particularly any woman, thinks it's acceptable that the rights of an unborn fetus are more important than the rights of an autonomous human being. The paternalistic slant of these laws is disgusting, and the fact that they're accepted by anyone, but in particular women, is truly terrifying.

What's next-pregnant women are prohibited from driving because they could get in accident and kill their fetus? Pregnant women can't eat deli meat because they might catch listeria and kill their fetus?

A woman is more than a vessel for an unborn child.

My name is Charbie, and I am 29 weeks pregnant.
I usually drink a can of diet coke each day, and lately since I have been having a cup of coffee each morning as well.
I also have eaten a tuna sandwich probably once every week or every other week while pregnant. I crave them to be honest.
Lately I have eaten roast beef sandiches for lunch. My husband makes one for me when he makes his own lunch. I enjoy them evenn. More bc he makes them.
Once, when I was 7 weeks pregnant, I had a piece of sashimi.

Maybe my doctor should have child protective services waiting at the hospital for me when I give birth in ~11 weeks. Then again, he never once asked me about my diet, never had any suggestions on foods I should or shouldn't eat. So maybe they should strip his license for not providing me with proper education on the risks of eating a sandwich while pregnant. Or maybe im supposed to learn how to treat my body while pregnant from the internet. Bc, you know, if its on the internet, it is true.

Charbie, I am actually suprised that your dr. didn't give you the information about the possibilities of listeria infection from eating deli meat. Each time I was pg, my dr. reviewed with me what I should eat versus what I should limit, verus what I should not eat at all. Once she informed me, the decision became mine to make. If something happened to you or your baby, would you not hold your dr. responsible since s/he didn't discuss it with you?

On a slight side note, as I said, I've had 2 miscarriages and when I went into the hospital to give birth to my second child, I noticed on my records that it said "2 abortions". I was really upset and asked the dr. about it. She told me that any loss is called an abortion. I was really shocked, because to me, abortion constitutes a conscious decision, while miscarriage does not.

If I got listeria from my local deli, I would probably be more pissed at my deli than my doctor. Honestly, I don't know how I would feel if something happened to my unborn child bc I got sick from something I ate. Is there a risk from eating a tuna sandwich every other weeek? I guess. But im one of those people who believes in moderation. Am I drinking or smoking? No. But I think if I stressed out about eevery potential item I ingested and how it could harm my baby, id be a wreck.

 

[Tuckins1]

This is terrible and tragic. It seems like some sort of Taliban-like thinking... The woman isn't important, just the unborn baby. Let's persecute the women for anything and everything....

 

[charbie]

The direction of my country currently terrifies me.

Ditto. I'm shocked that any person, but particularly any woman, thinks it's acceptable that the rights of an unborn fetus are more important than the rights of an autonomous human being. The paternalistic slant of these laws is disgusting, and the fact that they're accepted by anyone, but in particular women, is truly terrifying.

What's next-pregnant women are prohibited from driving because they could get in accident and kill their fetus? Pregnant women can't eat deli meat because they might catch listeria and kill their fetus?

A woman is more than a vessel for an unborn child.

Amen, Thing!

Ya know, I also visit TheBump every once in a while (which, oddly, is less interesting and informative than PS's family/pregnancy boards), and it disturbs me even there how often people (pregnant women!) put the fetus before the woman! So many times there were women who were pregnant and considering terminating, and a strong majority of women were pressing (read: guilting) for her to give her "baby" up for adoption. While I think adoption is a wonderful gift, since when are women OBLIGATED to carry babies for other women?? There is nothing more infuriating to me than exactly what you said, Thing - women are considered vessels for unborn children.

Along with Charbie, I have coke nearly EVERY day (ZOMG 35 mg of caffeine!!!), I ate a couple of HOT DOGS, a tuna roll, and even a club sandwich without reheating it first!! I think I had a (heh -yes, just one!) nitrate too! Someone lock us up!

I think some of the names these women on thebump come up with for their kids are more abusive than the hot dog you ate. My mom didn't even know hot dogs were bad....she said she ate them all the time when pregnant with my sister, since she fed them to my older sister and I all the time. Oh while smoking her cigarettes.

 

[Lauren8211]

The direction of my country currently terrifies me.

Ditto. I'm shocked that any person, but particularly any woman, thinks it's acceptable that the rights of an unborn fetus are more important than the rights of an autonomous human being. The paternalistic slant of these laws is disgusting, and the fact that they're accepted by anyone, but in particular women, is truly terrifying.

What's next-pregnant women are prohibited from driving because they could get in accident and kill their fetus? Pregnant women can't eat deli meat because they might catch listeria and kill their fetus?

A woman is more than a vessel for an unborn child.

Amen, Thing!

Ya know, I also visit TheBump every once in a while (which, oddly, is less interesting and informative than PS's family/pregnancy boards), and it disturbs me even there how often people (pregnant women!) put the fetus before the woman! So many times there were women who were pregnant and considering terminating, and a strong majority of women were pressing (read: guilting) for her to give her "baby" up for adoption. While I think adoption is a wonderful gift, since when are women OBLIGATED to carry babies for other women?? There is nothing more infuriating to me than exactly what you said, Thing - women are considered vessels for unborn children.

Along with Charbie, I have coke nearly EVERY day (ZOMG 35 mg of caffeine!!!), I ate a couple of HOT DOGS, a tuna roll, and even a club sandwich without reheating it first!! I think I had a (heh -yes, just one!) nitrate too! Someone lock us up!

I think some of the names these women on thebump come up with for their kids are more abusive than the hot dog you ate. My mom didn't even know hot dogs were bad....she said she ate them all the time when pregnant with my sister, since she fed them to my older sister and I all the time. Oh while smoking her cigarettes.

Bahahah! Charbie you are so right - some of the names over there are ridic. I've tried so hard to get into TB, but PS is just so much better.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

It's amazing to me the level people with sink to in order to make a statement. There was a conversation similar to this not all that long ago about how having miscarriages could lead to potential manslaughter charges. My stance is the same now as it was then, some people are simply too stupid for words.

 

[Circe]

This issue makes me see red.

I don't think that anybody out there seriously believes that this legislation - any of this legislation - is being constructed with the well-being of infants in mind. If it was, perhaps these politicians might be trying to see more funds go to adoption, pediatric healthcare, Child Protective Services, or education. It's a way to chip away at Roe vs. Wade: to erode, and eventually, eradicate, women's rights.

I say "rights," plural, because for a lot of the fundies, it's not just abortion that's at issue: some of them think that "life begins" way before implantation, which is what the medical establishment agrees on. They'd like to use it as a way to outlaw birth control, and reverse all the changes it brought - was it Times Magazine that called The Pill the greatest advance of the 20th century, outpacing everything from the polio vaccine to the internet in the social advances it wrought?

Hey, remember when Georgia state rep Bobby Franklin basically tried to outlaw menstruation? 2007. Utah tried something similar in 2010: they wanted to prosecute "reckless" behavior during pregnancy, which could well include all the things Charbie listed ... or, for that matter, just driving in a car, since there's an indirect correlation between that and risk of miscarriage for women (as a side effect of the women themselves being in accidents). The argument for "fetal personhood" tends to give embryos rather more rights than women: I can't help but feel that the principle behind this is, hey, if you produce a boy baby, it's a person ... and if it's a girl baby, it can be an incubator. Just like mommy. At the end of the day, this is a way to control women, and it sucks.

The wording of the Mississipi law that Too Patient is quoting was intended to prosecute people who did back-alley abortions, and to discourage boyfriends and domestic partners from slipping ground-up methotrexate into their pregnant partners food to end their wanted pregnancies(as we see in two cases currently being prosecuted, one in England, on in the US). Sub-section 4 seems to specifically exempt the women involved from prosecution. The fact that the law is being applied in this fashion is, if you'll pardon the expression, a miscarriage of justice.

P.S. - I've had three miscarriages. One at 20 weeks, two more early on. I did plenty of blaming myself, believe me, but it turned out that I hadn't done anything "wrong." It was a blood clotting disorder ... that took a year to diagnose. Wonder if I would have been sentenced before the diagnosis (which I only got because of top-of-the-line health insurance - not so much of an option for women who don't have access to unusual and expensive tests). Heck, for that matter, I wonder if it would matter to these prosecutors. Gotta punish women for the crime of being women, amirite?

 

[yennyfire]

Charbie, for the record, I wasn't criticizing your choice to eat deli meat (my Mom smoked while eating hot dogs and sushi while pg with me and I'm reasonably normal, lol). I was just surprised that the dr. didn't feel the need to educate you and relieve his/her burden of liability.

 

[dragonfly411]

I wonder what Japanese women eat when they're pregnant.

 

[Pandora II]

Sushi is fine when you're pregnant - or at least it is here.

The potential issue is that fish 'might' have worms and if you caught that worm it might take some nutrients from you and that 'might' mean that you could suffer if you just happened to be malnourished to start with...

Sushi fish is generally frozen for 24 hours before use and this kills the worms.

Soft cheeses aren't banned - 'unpasteurised' soft cheeses are the issue, which are pretty hard to find in the first place and that French women merrily chomp away on while they are pregnant.

If you want to eat something way, way more dangerous than deli meats, soft cheeses and a lot of other things then try eating:

Lettuce or Bean Sprouts!


I am just so, so annoyed that people think that it is okay to interfere in women's lives in this way. Even more scary is that the public vote these bigots into positions where they have the power to inflict their warped views on others.

 

[Circe]

The annoying thing, I think, is the assumption that all women are as stupid as my cat, who will gorge herself until she vomits.

It is safe to have less than 300 mg of caffeine a day in pregnancy.

It is safe to drink alcohol in moderation.

It is safe to eat soft cheese so long as it is pasteurized.

The risk of rare meat, sushi, deli meat, and raw eggs is present, but assuming you know and trust your fine dining establishment/live by a coast/buy organic, the chance of something going wrong is roughly on a par with that of being struck by lightning ... and I somehow think that that choice is between each woman, her good sense, and her pregnancy cravings.

Etc., etc., etc.

Women are not idiots. Women are capable of moderation. Women do not need to be terrified into submission, not by this exaggerated doom-saying, and not by a government willing to use individual women's tragedy to cow the rest. Sheesh.

 

[AN0NYM0US]

I am amazed at the amount of people on here that compare drinking rat poison to a diet coke.

I am not sure if people are being silly or ignorant, but I would love to see one example of a woman going to jail for eating a $5 footlong while pregnant. I am positive this is not what the charge is for and is truly for serious offenses ie drinking rat poison and cocaine abuse causing the death of your child. There is no intent to cause harm shown in any of the silly suggestions here ex. driving, sushi, deli meat, missing a vitamin etc..If you are concerned that this law may affect you negatively maybe you should read a law book...or a parenting book.

 

[Circe]

I am amazed at the amount of people on here that compare drinking rat poison to a diet coke.

I am not sure if people are being silly or ignorant, but I would love to see one example of a woman going to jail for eating a $5 footlong while pregnant. I am positive this is not what the charge is for and is truly for serious offenses ie drinking rat poison and cocaine abuse causing the death of your child. There is no intent to cause harm shown in any of the silly suggestions here ex. driving, sushi, deli meat, missing a vitamin etc..If you are concerned that this law may affect you negatively maybe you should read a law book...or a parenting book.

Dude, figure out how to sign in - it's moderately irritating trying to figure out if all the anon posts belong to one person, or if there are several of you. ETA: Ah, I see - that IS your handle. Clever?

As for the difference between the two: I'd say what most people are seeing is that it's a difference of degree, and not kind. Ever hear the phrase "slippery slope?"

 

[AN0NYM0US]

I am amazed at the amount of people on here that compare drinking rat poison to a diet coke.

I am not sure if people are being silly or ignorant, but I would love to see one example of a woman going to jail for eating a $5 footlong while pregnant. I am positive this is not what the charge is for and is truly for serious offenses ie drinking rat poison and cocaine abuse causing the death of your child. There is no intent to cause harm shown in any of the silly suggestions here ex. driving, sushi, deli meat, missing a vitamin etc..If you are concerned that this law may affect you negatively maybe you should read a law book...or a parenting book.

As for the difference between the two: I'd say what most people are seeing is that it's a difference of degree, and not kind. Ever hear the phrase "slippery slope?"

Are people in America really that afraid of their government?

 

[Circe]

I am amazed at the amount of people on here that compare drinking rat poison to a diet coke.

I am not sure if people are being silly or ignorant, but I would love to see one example of a woman going to jail for eating a $5 footlong while pregnant. I am positive this is not what the charge is for and is truly for serious offenses ie drinking rat poison and cocaine abuse causing the death of your child. There is no intent to cause harm shown in any of the silly suggestions here ex. driving, sushi, deli meat, missing a vitamin etc..If you are concerned that this law may affect you negatively maybe you should read a law book...or a parenting book.

As for the difference between the two: I'd say what most people are seeing is that it's a difference of degree, and not kind. Ever hear the phrase "slippery slope?"

Are people in America really that afraid of their government?

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: I refer you to the various unsubtle attempts of said government to roll back the clock. Ohio's hearbeat bill is only the tip of the iceberg. We have a lot of crazies who think the End Times are nigh, a fair number of whom appear to believe that God has taken time out of his busy schedule to tap them for civic duty. It's ... disconcerting. Especially when their like-minded brethren appear to be the only ones motivated to actually go to the polls.

 

[Gypsy]

I am amazed at the amount of people on here that compare drinking rat poison to a diet coke.

I am not sure if people are being silly or ignorant, but I would love to see one example of a woman going to jail for eating a $5 footlong while pregnant. I am positive this is not what the charge is for and is truly for serious offenses ie drinking rat poison and cocaine abuse causing the death of your child. There is no intent to cause harm shown in any of the silly suggestions here ex. driving, sushi, deli meat, missing a vitamin etc..If you are concerned that this law may affect you negatively maybe you should read a law book...or a parenting book.

As for the difference between the two: I'd say what most people are seeing is that it's a difference of degree, and not kind. Ever hear the phrase "slippery slope?"

Are people in America really that afraid of their government?

Terrified. Especially if you are woman.

 

[DivaDiamond007]

This issue makes me see red.

I don't think that anybody out there seriously believes that this legislation - any of this legislation - is being constructed with the well-being of infants in mind. If it was, perhaps these politicians might be trying to see more funds go to adoption, pediatric healthcare, Child Protective Services, or education. It's a way to chip away at Roe vs. Wade: to erode, and eventually, eradicate, women's rights.

I say "rights," plural, because for a lot of the fundies, it's not just abortion that's at issue: some of them think that "life begins" way before implantation, which is what the medical establishment agrees on. They'd like to use it as a way to outlaw birth control, and reverse all the changes it brought - was it Times Magazine that called The Pill the greatest advance of the 20th century, outpacing everything from the polio vaccine to the internet in the social advances it wrought?

Hey, remember when Georgia state rep Bobby Franklin basically tried to outlaw menstruation? 2007. Utah tried something similar in 2010: they wanted to prosecute "reckless" behavior during pregnancy, which could well include all the things Charbie listed ... or, for that matter, just driving in a car, since there's an indirect correlation between that and risk of miscarriage for women (as a side effect of the women themselves being in accidents). The argument for "fetal personhood" tends to give embryos rather more rights than women: I can't help but feel that the principle behind this is, hey, if you produce a boy baby, it's a person ... and if it's a girl baby, it can be an incubator. Just like mommy. At the end of the day, this is a way to control women, and it sucks.

The wording of the Mississipi law that Too Patient is quoting was intended to prosecute people who did back-alley abortions, and to discourage boyfriends and domestic partners from slipping ground-up methotrexate into their pregnant partners food to end their wanted pregnancies(as we see in two cases currently being prosecuted, one in England, on in the US). Sub-section 4 seems to specifically exempt the women involved from prosecution. The fact that the law is being applied in this fashion is, if you'll pardon the expression, a miscarriage of justice.

P.S. - I've had three miscarriages. One at 20 weeks, two more early on. I did plenty of blaming myself, believe me, but it turned out that I hadn't done anything "wrong." It was a blood clotting disorder ... that took a year to diagnose. Wonder if I would have been sentenced before the diagnosis (which I only got because of top-of-the-line health insurance - not so much of an option for women who don't have access to unusual and expensive tests). Heck, for that matter, I wonder if it would matter to these prosecutors. Gotta punish women for the crime of being women, amirite?

AMEN!

I love how you wrote this - I wish I had your way with words!

 

[ksinger]

I am amazed at the amount of people on here that compare drinking rat poison to a diet coke.

I am not sure if people are being silly or ignorant, but I would love to see one example of a woman going to jail for eating a $5 footlong while pregnant. I am positive this is not what the charge is for and is truly for serious offenses ie drinking rat poison and cocaine abuse causing the death of your child. There is no intent to cause harm shown in any of the silly suggestions here ex. driving, sushi, deli meat, missing a vitamin etc..If you are concerned that this law may affect you negatively maybe you should read a law book...or a parenting book.

As for the difference between the two: I'd say what most people are seeing is that it's a difference of degree, and not kind. Ever hear the phrase "slippery slope?"

Are people in America really that afraid of their government?

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: I refer you to the various unsubtle attempts of said government to roll back the clock. Ohio's hearbeat bill is only the tip of the iceberg. We have a lot of crazies who think the End Times are nigh, a fair number of whom appear to believe that God has taken time out of his busy schedule to tap them for civic duty. It's ... disconcerting. Especially when their like-minded brethren appear to be the only ones motivated to actually go to the polls.

What was it I said earlier about many youngish women (and men) thinking that the old feminist battles were won already, and feminism if now shrill and passé? Complacency and comfort are no match for the boogiemen and litany of fears that motivate the zealots. Even though Oklahoma is not exactly abortion-rights-rally central, I've been to a few in my day, and Planned Parenthood has my email on "one-click". Gotta write those congressmen (har). (I truly do. My middle name is "Quixote") I'm sure my letters carry lots of weight with Jim Inhofe.

 

[megumic]

I am amazed at the amount of people on here that compare drinking rat poison to a diet coke.

I am not sure if people are being silly or ignorant, but I would love to see one example of a woman going to jail for eating a $5 footlong while pregnant. I am positive this is not what the charge is for and is truly for serious offenses ie drinking rat poison and cocaine abuse causing the death of your child. There is no intent to cause harm shown in any of the silly suggestions here ex. driving, sushi, deli meat, missing a vitamin etc..If you are concerned that this law may affect you negatively maybe you should read a law book...or a parenting book.

Seriously? Last time I checked cocaine abuse (addiction most likely in many cases) is not an offense. (Maybe you should read up on your laws. Hint: the offenses are possession, possession with intent to distribute, possession of drug paraphernalia, etc.)

One with a drug addiction also shows no intent to cause harm. I would venture to say addicts, particularly pregnant addicts while we're at it, feel guilty about their addiction and intend no harm. In fact, a physician would likely warn an addict against getting clean during pregnancy as that in itself may cause a miscarriage since both fetus and mom are addicted. A pregnant addict uses because she is addicted, not to cause the death of her child. Similarly, when a pregnant woman (addict or not, you pick) who eats sushi, peanut butter, deli meat, cheese, has a cig or a swig of wine also does not intend to cause harm.

Since we're having trouble with this:

Intent -
A determination to perform a particular act or to act in a particular manner for a specific reason; an aim or design; a resolution to use a certain means to reach an end.

Intent is a mental attitude with which an individual acts, and therefore it cannot ordinarily be directly proved but must be inferred from surrounding facts and circumstances. Intent refers only to the state of mind with which the act is done or omitted. It differs from motive, which is what prompts a person to act or to fail to act.

In the preggo cocaine addict hypo her intent is to ingest cocaine. Her motive (I'm guessing here... ) is to stave off withdrawal and to feed her addiction. If her intent was in fact to kill said unborn fetus, I'm pretty sure she'd think of a better, more certain way to accomplish that than doing some coke.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/intent

 

[megumic]

The direction of my country currently terrifies me.

Ditto. I'm shocked that any person, but particularly any woman, thinks it's acceptable that the rights of an unborn fetus are more important than the rights of an autonomous human being. The paternalistic slant of these laws is disgusting, and the fact that they're accepted by anyone, but in particular women, is truly terrifying.

What's next-pregnant women are prohibited from driving because they could get in accident and kill their fetus? Pregnant women can't eat deli meat because they might catch listeria and kill their fetus?

A woman is more than a vessel for an unborn child.

My name is Charbie, and I am 29 weeks pregnant.
I usually drink a can of diet coke each day, and lately since I have been having a cup of coffee each morning as well.
I also have eaten a tuna sandwich probably once every week or every other week while pregnant. I crave them to be honest.
Lately I have eaten roast beef sandiches for lunch. My husband makes one for me when he makes his own lunch. I enjoy them evenn. More bc he makes them.
Once, when I was 7 weeks pregnant, I had a piece of sashimi.

Maybe my doctor should have child protective services waiting at the hospital for me when I give birth in ~11 weeks. Then again, he never once asked me about my diet, never had any suggestions on foods I should or shouldn't eat. So maybe they should strip his license for not providing me with proper education on the risks of eating a sandwich while pregnant. Or maybe im supposed to learn how to treat my body while pregnant from the internet. Bc, you know, if its on the internet, it is true.

Charbie, I am actually suprised that your dr. didn't give you the information about the possibilities of listeria infection from eating deli meat. Each time I was pg, my dr. reviewed with me what I should eat versus what I should limit, verus what I should not eat at all. Once she informed me, the decision became mine to make. If something happened to you or your baby, would you not hold your dr. responsible since s/he didn't discuss it with you? I'm not saying that you shouldn't eat deli meat, but that you should have been told about the possible risks so that you could make an informed decision (I'm using deli meat as the example, but you could insert anything here: caffeine, fish with a high mecury content, alcohol, etc.)

On a slight side note, as I said, I've had 2 miscarriages and when I went into the hospital to give birth to my second child, I noticed on my records that it said "2 abortions". I was really upset and asked the dr. about it. She told me that any loss is called an abortion. I was really shocked, because to me, abortion constitutes a conscious decision, while miscarriage does not.

In the realm of topics OB/GYNs fail to give informed consent about during pregnancy, labor and delivery, food would be at the bottom of my list. (Still there nonetheless, but I find OB/GYNs to be particularly negligent when it comes to informing women about the risks/benefits regarding nearly everything that goes on in regards to birth...but I digress, that's for another thread another day.)

Also, I'm sorry to hear your record reflected your miscarriages that way. I find it interesting that it's qualified as such for the purposes of medical records, as they mean two totally different things! I agree with you that miscarriage is never a conscious decision, but I think sometimes abortion is not necessarily a choice in some limited circumstances.

 

[Miss Sparkly]

So abortion is legal but this is murder? Go figure...

btw: I'm pro-choice

 

[packrat]

I think it's termed "spontaneous abortion" when you have a miscarriage. That's just the medical terminology for it. That's how our office has it in my medical records and how it's coded/billed. Abortion is the termination of the pregnancy..induced abortion would be going to a Dr to have the fetus removed, different than spontaneous abortion which is a miscarriage. I only learned that b/c I was putting info in on a patient and it had listed how many spontaneous abortions and induced abortions she had so I asked b/c it confused me.

 

[jstarfireb]

The direction of my country currently terrifies me.

Ditto. I'm shocked that any person, but particularly any woman, thinks it's acceptable that the rights of an unborn fetus are more important than the rights of an autonomous human being. The paternalistic slant of these laws is disgusting, and the fact that they're accepted by anyone, but in particular women, is truly terrifying.

What's next-pregnant women are prohibited from driving because they could get in accident and kill their fetus? Pregnant women can't eat deli meat because they might catch listeria and kill their fetus?

A woman is more than a vessel for an unborn child.

+1. Heck, +1 MILLION. I couldn't have said it better.