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So after ~5 months of back and forth, including going to Vatche directly...

Much of what I would recommend has already been covered by other posters at this point! :))

1. Context IDJ. Speak directly with (only with) Yekutiel, the owner. Bring him up to speed and let him know that you intend to have the rings appraised by an independent appraiser. Ask if he has a preference regarding contacting Vatche, and ask if he has additional recommendations.
​
2. Call Neil Beaty, Dave Atlas, or Jeff Averbrook - information below. Explain the situation, let him know you’re a Pricescoper, and ask what he might be able to do. These professionals’ services don’t come cheap - you’re paying for both quality of educated opinion and sterling reputation. They may also have other/additional recommendations.

3. Yekutiel may indicate that he would prefer to take over communications with Vatche, but given that you took the project out of his hands it is IMO unlikely. If that’s the case, call your representative at Vatche.
A) Do you have any paperwork stating that you will receive a “matching band”?
B) Do you have written records of your communications with them thus far?​
Tell him or her that you are unhappy because they have been unable to fulfill their work order for a matching set. Explain that you are having the pieces evaluated by an independent appraiser. Don’t get into the nitty gritty of exactly what doesn’t match - anything you say that isn’t corroborated by your appraisal will undermine your position. Just explain that you’ll be in contact as soon as your appraisal is in. Personally I’d say that I want a refund up-front, but people prefer to handle this sort of thing differently!
 
oh wow, OK. seems like this could become an ugly process.

i definitely feel like i may anger IDJ and/or Vatche as i proceed...
 
DiamondDense said:
oh wow, OK. seems like this could become an ugly process.

i definitely feel like i may anger IDJ and/or Vatche as i proceed...
Click to expand...

I'd strongly encourage you to remove as much emotion out of your side as possible. I understand it's an engagement ring and this shouldn't have happened but if you allow emotions to run wild it will only make the process more difficult.

I'd approach in a very factual manner and with a clear mindset of what you want specifically. Have you decided if you want to keep the stone IDJ sourced for you, or do an entire refund? If you want to keep the stone do you know the individual values of the stone and setting from prior conversations, or better yet a receipt so there is NO confusion on those individual values?

Throughout the process I would remain diplomatic and respectful while holding firm that my specific expectations (clearly articulated from start through finish) are met to my satisfaction.

At this point there is no need of knowing why it happened. It's already done. You are just navigating to a resolution that will make you happy and that solution does not include Vatche. I think all parties will understand that and work with you. While this is your first experience with this type of failure, they are professionals and have likely stubbed their toes before.
 
sledge said:
I'd strongly encourage you to remove as much emotion out of your side as possible. I understand it's an engagement ring and this shouldn't have happened but if you allow emotions to run wild it will only make the process more difficult.

I'd approach in a very factual manner and with a clear mindset of what you want specifically. Have you decided if you want to keep the stone IDJ sourced for you, or do an entire refund? If you want to keep the stone do you know the individual values of the stone and setting from prior conversations, or better yet a receipt so there is NO confusion on those individual values?

Throughout the process I would remain diplomatic and respectful while holding firm that my specific expectations (clearly articulated from start through finish) are met to my satisfaction.

At this point there is no need of knowing why it happened. It's already done. You are just navigating to a resolution that will make you happy and that solution does not include Vatche. I think all parties will understand that and work with you. While this is your first experience with this type of failure, they are professionals and have likely stubbed their toes before.
Click to expand...

Very good advice by @yssie and @sledge... If you do decide to get a full refund, would you consider having another bench make the rings, i.e. starting over? If so, you may have better luck with David Klass, Victor Canera, Caysie VanBebber (CVB), or other PS vendor who regularly makes rings with a similar aesthetic as the Vatche you have.
 
sledge said:
I'd strongly encourage you to remove as much emotion out of your side as possible. I understand it's an engagement ring and this shouldn't have happened but if you allow emotions to run wild it will only make the process more difficult.

I'd approach in a very factual manner and with a clear mindset of what you want specifically. Have you decided if you want to keep the stone IDJ sourced for you, or do an entire refund? If you want to keep the stone do you know the individual values of the stone and setting from prior conversations, or better yet a receipt so there is NO confusion on those individual values?

Throughout the process I would remain diplomatic and respectful while holding firm that my specific expectations (clearly articulated from start through finish) are met to my satisfaction.

At this point there is no need of knowing why it happened. It's already done. You are just navigating to a resolution that will make you happy and that solution does not include Vatche. I think all parties will understand that and work with you. While this is your first experience with this type of failure, they are professionals and have likely stubbed their toes before.
Click to expand...
thank you! very helpful. i do have receipts for everything so i am hoping i can just easily get a refund from IDJ. i assume he may try to talk me into having him make the rings though i think i may just go elsewhere.

from a stone standpoint, i think we're both pretty happy (as an aside, if anyone is informed on ovals i'd be curious of your opinion on it).
 
msop04 said:
Very good advice by @yssie and @sledge... If you do decide to get a full refund, would you consider having another bench make the rings, i.e. starting over? If so, you may have better luck with David Klass, Victor Canera, Caysie VanBebber (CVB), or other PS vendor who regularly makes rings with a similar aesthetic as the Vatche you have.
Click to expand...
i would definitely consider another bench. if i do go for a refund i think i'd just wipe my hands clean of Vatche/IDJ and start with another vendor.

budget does become an issue as i wouldn't want to spend much more than $4K or so for both ER and band and from what i gather Canera is quite pricey.

i did already reach out to Brian Gavin to see what they had and what price range i could expect.
 
DiamondDense said:
i would definitely consider another bench. if i do go for a refund i think i'd just wipe my hands clean of Vatche/IDJ and start with another vendor.

budget does become an issue as i wouldn't want to spend much more than $4K or so for both ER and band and from what i gather Canera is quite pricey.

i did already reach out to Brian Gavin to see what they had and what price range i could expect.
Click to expand...

I'd definitely consider DK... his work is amazing and very affordable.
 
I used DK for my fiancee's ring which was a much more complex design than yours and it cost about half as much as your max budget.

FYI while DK does great work they do utilize CAD/CAM and then they cast the ring. I believe Vatche hand forges their bands. Since you had issues with matching widths, etc I'd think the CAD/CAM and cast method might be better for you. However, hand forging is typically considered more strong and costs more. I believe VC and CvB hand forge.

I'm just scratching the surface here on the methods. I believe @LaylaR did a nice write up not long ago that went into much greater detail.
 
Vatche does not handforge. They cast and they do CADs. :) We carry the line, so I am positive.

Victor does handforge, but he is the only designer mentioned here that does I believe. Steven Kirsch also does. Unless someone specifically says they handforge from ingots-- assume they do not. It's a very small number of artisans that do this.
 
LaylaR said:
Vatche does not handforge. They cast and they do CADs. :) We carry the line, so I am positive.

Victor does handforge, but he is the only designer mentioned here that does I believe. Steven Kirsch also does. Unless someone specifically says they handforge from ingots-- assume they do not. It's a very small number of artisans that do this.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I could have sworn I read that Vatche hand forged. Maybe it was just a play on words, maybe something like "hand crafted" that I am thinking about. Anyhow, I apologize for any confusion I might have caused. You would definitely know better, as Vatche is one of your dealers.

What puzzles me is if Vatche uses CAD/CAM technology and casts, then why couldn't they get an exact match?

Also, I'm not sure what kind of hand work that CvB does, but I know when I visited with her about a potential wedding band for myself I was blown away by the cost and she indicated the cost was so high because it was hand forged (at least, I think she said that).
 
sledge said:
Interesting. I could have sworn I read that Vatche hand forged. Maybe it was just a play on words, maybe something like "hand crafted" that I am thinking about. Anyhow, I apologize for any confusion I might have caused. You would definitely know better, as Vatche is one of your dealers.

What puzzles me is if Vatche uses CAD/CAM technology and casts, then why couldn't they get an exact match?

Also, I'm not sure what kind of hand work that CvB does, but I know when I visited with her about a potential wedding band for myself I was blown away by the cost and she indicated the cost was so high because it was hand forged (at least, I think she said that).
Click to expand...
I think she has access to a bench that can hand forge if you request it. Most of the pieces that have been posted on PS have employed CADs. If anyone can point out a handforged piece designed by Caysie please feel free to link. It would be good to see an example.
 
LLJsmom said:
I think she has access to a bench that can hand forge if you request it. Most of the pieces that have been posted on PS have employed CADs. If anyone can point out a handforged piece designed by Caysie please feel free to link. It would be good to see an example.
Click to expand...

Notice in the description...."custom crafted and hand made rings". I think I deleted the texts but I had a conversation with Caysie about the men's ring. Either she said she hand forged specifically or said things in a way that made me believe it was hand forged. FYI, it was around $3k after some discount she figured in so pricey if not hand forged.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BYWdrn8BJ-K/

1933-jpeg.645200
 
sledge said:
Interesting. I could have sworn I read that Vatche hand forged. Maybe it was just a play on words, maybe something like "hand crafted" that I am thinking about. Anyhow, I apologize for any confusion I might have caused. You would definitely know better, as Vatche is one of your dealers.

What puzzles me is if Vatche uses CAD/CAM technology and casts, then why couldn't they get an exact match?

Also, I'm not sure what kind of hand work that CvB does, but I know when I visited with her about a potential wedding band for myself I was blown away by the cost and she indicated the cost was so high because it was hand forged (at least, I think she said that).
Click to expand...
excellent question. when i went in person i was asked how long ago i ordered the ER as they were going to try and find the exact CAD file. being that it had been about a year, he said it was unlikely they'd be able to dig up the exact model that was used...
 
To clarify - DKJ mostly uses CADs and casts, but they will also hand forge on request. This is largely cost prohibitive, which is why they do not, on the whole, do it. My previous ring - the halo with the 4ct center - had hand forged elements, which I specifically requested.

They might have limits to this - I'm not sure. But I know it's possible and that they will do it on occasion.
 
sledge said:
Notice in the description...."custom crafted and hand made rings". I think I deleted the texts but I had a conversation with Caysie about the men's ring. Either she said she hand forged specifically or said things in a way that made me believe it was hand forged. FYI, it was around $3k after some discount she figured in so pricey if not hand forged.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BYWdrn8BJ-K/

1933-jpeg.645200
Click to expand...
I forget what thread it was in but hand made doesn’t necessarily mean hand forged. I know that can be confusing and maybe only in PriceScope. Because when you go out to lots of brick and mortars they often say hand made. That does not mean that they use ingots and work the metal by hand until it becomes the piece you ordered. @LaylaR where is that thread where you just described the different levels of shall I say hand crafting? There are very few that don’t use a cast or a mold, not die struck or other. Victor, Steven Kirsch, Leon, who else? I know that when I talked to Caysie way back when she said hand forged was an option if I specifically required it but normally she would use a cast and CADs. Let me try to dig up that thread with @LaylaR ‘s description.
 
LaylaR said:
Vatche does not handforge. They cast and they do CADs. :) We carry the line, so I am positive.

Victor does handforge, but he is the only designer mentioned here that does I believe. Steven Kirsch also does. Unless someone specifically says they handforge from ingots-- assume they do not. It's a very small number of artisans that do this.
Click to expand...
being that you carry the line, have you ever encountered anything like this?
 
LLJsmom said:
Thank you @LaylaR Do you know how to request to make that thread a sticky? Your explanations of the various Methods shows of construction are excellent and so useful and informative.
Click to expand...

LLJsmom said:
Thank you @LaylaR Do you know how to request to make that thread a sticky? Your explanations of the various Methods shows of construction are excellent and so useful and informative.
Click to expand...

I added it to the Helpful Threads Archive Sticky: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/helpful-threads-archive.72078/page-4

That way you can find it. :wavey:
 
unfortunately, my wife is still unhappy. we need to decide what to do and i am at a bit of a loss. it is really unfortunate we've had so many issues with, what's supposed to be, a highly cherished item. she said it bothers and frustrates her every time she looks at it.


here is a response from Vatche:

We apologize for your dissatisfaction of your matching wedding band. However, you should take this up with your retailer that you purchased your wedding bands from. Note: all of our beautiful products are HAND-MADE, and HAND crafted unlike most manufactures. Because it is hand crafted, the mm might vary a tiny bit but all 30 years plus of business, we never had any complaint of it being an exact match because retailers and consumers are aware and appreciate that it is handmade.

Moreover, if you are a consumer that had one of our retailer contact us to cater to you personally, Like you mentioned, we have made another one for you, from Vatche himself and its been MONTHS since.

We had many retailers clients come in and never had any dissatisfaction, We strive for best customer service and deliver top tier quality products always. We stand behind our products but do apologize if your matching band wasn't to your satisfaction as if it were machine made.
 
DiamondDense said:
unfortunately, my wife is still unhappy. we need to decide what to do and i am at a bit of a loss. it is really unfortunate we've had so many issues with, what's supposed to be, a highly cherished item. she said it bothers and frustrates her every time she looks at it.


here is a response from Vatche:

We apologize for your dissatisfaction of your matching wedding band. However, you should take this up with your retailer that you purchased your wedding bands from. Note: all of our beautiful products are HAND-MADE, and HAND crafted unlike most manufactures. Because it is hand crafted, the mm might vary a tiny bit but all 30 years plus of business, we never had any complaint of it being an exact match because retailers and consumers are aware and appreciate that it is handmade.

Moreover, if you are a consumer that had one of our retailer contact us to cater to you personally, Like you mentioned, we have made another one for you, from Vatche himself and its been MONTHS since.

We had many retailers clients come in and never had any dissatisfaction, We strive for best customer service and deliver top tier quality products always. We stand behind our products but do apologize if your matching band wasn't to your satisfaction as if it were machine made.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised this is the best response they can give you. The sensible thing for them to do would be to allow you to return the rings for a refund, and point you to some suggestions on companies that may make something more in line with what you are looking for.
 
bludiva said:
I'm surprised this is the best response they can give you. The sensible thing for them to do would be to allow you to return the rings for a refund, and point you to some suggestions on companies that may make something more in line with what you are looking for.
Click to expand...
that response was actually on a Google review i left them - not directly sent to me. i reached out again to them today to see if they have any solutions.

if not, i may just give up and sell the rings and have them completely replaced. i just don't know how much of a hit i'd take $ wise.
 
DiamondDense said:
that response was actually on a Google review i left them - not directly sent to me. i reached out again to them today to see if they have any solutions.

if not, i may just give up and sell the rings and have them completely replaced. i just don't know how much of a hit i'd take $ wise.
Click to expand...
A huge hit. Before you do that..would your wife consider getting a delicate spacer between the two bands? I think that if you can visually separate the two rings a little bit, the slight differences might not be as visible.
 
SimoneDi said:
A huge hit. Before you do that..would your wife consider getting a delicate spacer between the two bands? I think that if you can visually separate the two rings a little bit, the slight differences might not be as visible.
Click to expand...

potentially. i am not even sure what a spacer is :)

that said, maybe i can still go with what @yssie laid out and try for some type of recourse.

no response yet to my early morning email to Vatche.
 
I'm as picky as heck, but even I think your wife is being a little dramatic and unreasonable here. Sorry, but she is.

It's a wedding band, and a beautiful one, although it does not match 100% perfectly. It bothers her and frustrates her every time she looks at it? Return or sell it. She needs to figure out a solution instead of being upset about it or making you go crazy trying to fix it. This isn't good for your marriage.

Sorry this happened and Vatche just couldn't deliver. I do think they tried. Maybe she'd be happier with a plain metal band or a deliberately non-matchy diamond band. Then she wouldn't worry about them being an EXACT match to her engagement ring, as it would be obvious they weren't supposed to match. I truly think that is the way to go. Trying to get a PERFECT match is going to be basically impossible at this point.

Good luck!
 
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