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Single or double claw prongs for cushion?

acaw2015

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Hi again!
As you probably know (I hope you aren't getting tired of me) I am working on a reset for my cushion solitaire.
I want the new setting to have four sharp claw prongs but simply can't decide on single or split/double claw. If I choose double, I think it will look best to have them slitghtly separated to show diamond between them.
I would love your feedback on this! What do you think would enhance the cushion shape the most? I think the prongs in my current setting make the stone look more square than rounded, but maybe that is because of the current roundish prongs.
/aca :wavey:
 

Gypsy

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What size is the cushion? Who is the vendor?
 

acaw2015

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Hi Gypsy!
It is the same cushion as in the picture, 1ct from GOG, square ca 5.89 mm. I am not based in the US and will be using a local jeweler and I am unfortunately not expecting the same quality as the ps recommended vendors. I am working through the local jewelers in my town, trying a third one this time and upping the budget... Should have had it set in the US before shipping it here... :nono: ;(
 

Gypsy

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Definitely single.claw.then. No question.
 

acaw2015

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Thank you for your reply Gypsy! Is it the size of the stone then that makes you say so? I am very grateful for your opinion on this!!
/aca :wavey:
 

acaw2015

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Ok, never mind my question Gypsy. I found a thread where you explained this in detail. :doh:
Thank you! :wavey:
 

mrs-b

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Agree with Gypsy on this. I think proportionately single claws will look better.
 

acaw2015

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mrs-blop said:
Agree with Gypsy on this. I think proportionately single claws will look better.

Thanks! :wavey:

I think finding a setting is so difficult. I think I need to do some window shopping again to understand what I want. I have gone from wanting something modern to wanting something vintage-like to wanting your ring but with four prongs without going custom... Baahh :(sad

Oh well, it's a nice problem to have anyway and I do have my temp ring...

If anyone has any idea about what kind of setting would be nice, please post. :))
 

tyty333

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Single claws...it's a beautiful stone and proportionately I woudn't want to cover too much of it up. Double claws only work on
really large stones for me.
 

EvangelineG

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I have double claws on a 1 ct AVR, and I think they are very beautiful and do not overpower BUT they are finely done by David Klass. If I had to go with someone local, I wouldn't consider trying to get double claws, unless I had seen examples of excellent double claws by the bench I was planning on using, otherwise it's just a recipe for disappointment. I asked to see examples of single and double claws when I was shopping for custom setting vendors locally, and saw some really, really , reeeeeaaaaallly poor execution on both. :blackeye: It doesn't seem to be a skill that your average bench has around here.

So I would only go for single claws locally, and I would ask for examples and not assume that a bench could do nicely even on single ones. Good luck!
 

acaw2015

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tyty333 said:
Single claws...it's a beautiful stone and proportionately I woudn't want to cover too much of it up. Double claws only work on
really large stones for me.

Thank you!! :)) This is what I need to hear, makes my decision so much easier.
 

acaw2015

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EvangelineG|1452267777|3972636 said:
I have double claws on a 1 ct AVR, and I think they are very beautiful and do not overpower BUT they are finely done by David Klass. If I had to go with someone local, I wouldn't consider trying to get double claws, unless I had seen examples of excellent double claws by the bench I was planning on using, otherwise it's just a recipe for disappointment. I asked to see examples of single and double claws when I was shopping for custom setting vendors locally, and saw some really, really , reeeeeaaaaallly poor execution on both. :blackeye: It doesn't seem to be a skill that your average bench has around here.

So I would only go for single claws locally, and I would ask for examples and not assume that a bench could do nicely even on single ones. Good luck!

Thank you so much for this advice, truly appreciate it! I will ask to see examples. I am pretty sure that I will not do double claws anyways, but I will make sure they can make nice single claw prongs... And oh I so understand what you're saying, my last setting had some very disappointing prongs. :nono: I didnt even understand that that could even be an issue!

Thanks!! :wavey:
 

acaw2015

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Rockinruby|1452271714|3972675 said:
Another vote for single claws. :wavey: Btw, your diamond is lovely! :appl:

Thank you so much Rockinruby! So nice of you to say. :) I really like it and hope I will find a nice setting for it!
 

Michael_E

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Everyone's advising single claw prongs, so I'll just throw in a vote for double claw prongs. While I do agree that a single claw prong looks slightly better than double claw prongs, you still need to take into account how to keep the stone from twisting and becoming loose. Most cushion shaped diamonds have rounded corners and those corners are the longest dimension on the stone. This means that in order for the stone to stay in place it can not twist at all, (since any twisting makes the distance between the contact points on the prongs shorter). Diamonds are slippery and holding a rounded corner with the prong alone is just not possible. The only way to keep this twisting from occurring with single claw prongs is by making the pavilion of the stone touch the upper rail of the basket in at least two places per corner. This is fine mechanically, but then produces an area which is touching or very close to the stone all around, becoming a dirt catcher and making the stone very hard to clean, (pretty much impossible without an ultrasonic cleaner and steam blaster). If you're insistent on using single prongs, then make sure that you can take the ring in for cleaning quite often, (or better yet, get the tools and clean it yourself once a week).
 

acaw2015

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Michael_E|1452285341|3972835 said:
Everyone's advising single claw prongs, so I'll just throw in a vote for double claw prongs. While I do agree that a single claw prong looks slightly better than double claw prongs, you still need to take into account how to keep the stone from twisting and becoming loose. Most cushion shaped diamonds have rounded corners and those corners are the longest dimension on the stone. This means that in order for the stone to stay in place it can not twist at all, (since any twisting makes the distance between the contact points on the prongs shorter). Diamonds are slippery and holding a rounded corner with the prong alone is just not possible. The only way to keep this twisting from occurring with single claw prongs is by making the pavilion of the stone touch the upper rail of the basket in at least two places per corner. This is fine mechanically, but then produces an area which is touching or very close to the stone all around, becoming a dirt catcher and making the stone very hard to clean, (pretty much impossible without an ultrasonic cleaner and steam blaster). If you're insistent on using single prongs, then make sure that you can take the ring in for cleaning quite often, (or better yet, get the tools and clean it yourself once a week).

Wow! Ok. Great input, it really does make sense what you write about the cushion shape. Yes I have noticed that it is quite hard to clean my current ring and dirt gets stuck on areas where the stone sits close to the setting. The prongs are rather wide and sit close to the stone and the stone is also close to the horizontal bars in the setting (basket) like you describe re the pavilion! I use an ultra sonic cleaner often, it is the only way to really remove dirt from those places, but had hoped that wouldnt be necessary with a new setting...

I guess this means that a setting like a four prong single claw classic tiffany is out of the question? Unless the prongs are wide and touching the pavilion...

Oh what to do! I have to say that your post makes so much sense that I am starting to feel that I will have to find a jeweler who can make me a double prong setting.... :errrr:

Thank you so much for your view on this!! :wavey:

Edited to add: obviously (and luckily) the prongs sit close to the stone... I mean in the design where the prongs are following the stone down girdle-pavilion. :loopy:
 

Gypsy

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Micheal, I agree that structurally double claw prongs would be best on a cushion. The problem is I've never seen them done well but an unknown bench. They end up overlarge and overtaking the stone, and the wearer ends up hating it.

On a solitaire and done by a good bench even at a carat double prongs would be nice. But the bench is unknown.
 

acaw2015

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Gypsy said:
Micheal, I agree that structurally double claw prongs would be best on a cushion. The problem is I've never seen them done well but an unknown bench. They end up overlarge and overtaking the stone, and the wearer ends up hating it.

On a solitaire and done by a good bench even at a carat double prongs would be nice. But the bench is unknown.

:errrr: ;(

Well, on the positive side I am now aware of the problem. Your responses make me aware of what I need to ask and see from any potential jeweler... I guess I have some work to do!
 

Gypsy

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Make sure you find a bench that has nice claw prongs and confirm they did them in house s.

You want them small if there are two. One prong would be larger (and easier).

Personally, I would download pictures of bad double claw prongs and show them to them and say "I DO NOT WANT THIS".
 

Gypsy

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And this is just bad.

_35941.jpg
 

acaw2015

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Thanks Gypsy! I will do that! Both pictures of what I like and what I don't want. I was a bit naive last time and didnt even discuss the prongs before having the ring made... I will make sure I know what they can do before committing this time. We'll see if I can find someone to make it.
Really appreciate your advice!

Edited to add: you posted before my post! Thank you so much for those links!! Youre the best!! I hope the owners of those rings wont read this thread. :halo: ;-) :))
 

Gypsy

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aca|1452290484|3972892 said:
Gypsy: ok, looking at some of those links I can't help but think that some of those look ok? For instance, what is wrong with the first one?

http://betterthandiamond.com/discussion/ubbthreads.php/ubb/download/Number/28457/filename/cushionDoubleProng.jpg

Please educate me, otherwise I wont be able to know what to look for. Could you please post some "good" examples?

For me the prongs are very big for double prongs. If those were single they'd be great thickness. It's a cast head and that's usually the problem. With cast prongs they have to be thicker because it doesn't have the same strength as hand forged wire.

Compare that head to this: https://www.pricescope.com/files/images/IMG_6205.JPG and even this: http://www.moissaniteco.com/temp/pics/radiant-double-claw-2.jpg

And yes, I will find some "good examples'.
But pretty much all you have to do is look on Leon Mege and Steven Kirsch and Victor Canera's sites.

You need handforged head for proper double prongs on a 1 carat stone.
 

Michael_E

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One other option, if you want to accentuate the squareness of the cushion, is to use a fairly wide chevron prong and forming the top of the prong into a sort of fishtail looking affair. This attached image was something I made up for a client over ten years ago and it worked pretty well. As long as the stone seat matches the curvature of the stone and the prong is wide enough, it will keep the stone from moving around.

green_tourmaline_diamond_engraved2.jpg
 

acaw2015

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Gypsy: thank you! Very informative! And I see the difference. Ok, very good advice re hand forged/cast prongs... Not sure I can find anything but cast here though, but I will ask and see.

The double prong detail is a final finish right? What I am thinking is, could I order a setting or perhaps only the head, for my stone from one of the recommended vendors and have a jeweler here set the stone..? Not sure this is even possible since it is a cushion though, I guess it is hard to make a setting without having the stone IRL. But since the prong detail is a final finish it may not even make any great difference and would perhaps only be a waste of time. I really dont want to send my stone to the US again, half way around the world.

I am seriously thinking about setting my cushion in a pendant instead and getting a round stone for a solitaire. :(sad

But I will give the local jewelers a chance to get it right before giving up.

Michael_E: thank you!! You have given me a lot to think about! :wavey:
 

alamana

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Quest Jewelers did double claws at the top of my 1.5 carat pear and they seem almost invisible. I love them.
 
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