Simple question. Is H&A worth the extra $$

[lmurden]

See with your own two eyes or a scope?

 

[JohnQuixote]

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On 9/24/2004 2:38:28 PM lmurden wrote:

Hi John,

I hear you about 'fad', but that was just his opinion on H&A. Maybe he was talking about the marketing aspect of H&A.

I have a question, in your opinion do you believe that diamonds that are truly H&A are visually (with the naked eye) more beautiful than a premium/excellent/well cut/ideal make diamond with a Depth of 60.1 - 61.9, Table of 55 - 57, and with polish and symmetry that are good-excellent? Thanks.----------------

Hello LM.

As requested: My opinion...

I had the chance to compare 11 diamonds - some top H&A brands, some AGS0 Tolkowsky-Ideal H&A and non H&A diamonds. We ran measurements, put the gems through different scopes and had much fun comparing images and numbers.

Of course, numbers aside, the true test was with our own eyes. There was much ado with different types of lighting. When all was said and done my top several picks were diamonds that exhibited true Hearts & Arrows.

Bear in mind that any of the diamonds we looked at would have been considered – at a casual glance – incredible. I doubt you would see any two of their quality in the same room in a normal social situation.

I relate this only because you asked. My eyes perceive things differently than yours (or maybe the same – who is to say?). We must agree that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

You can not see arrows with 2 eyes - you need to close one

 

[JohnQuixote]

Lord Cut Knight - Uh oh! Should I be closing an eye turning onto a one-way street so I can see that sign?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

sorry - that comment was meant to follow a different post John

 

[JohnQuixote]

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On 9/24/2004 1:03:20 PM chrono wrote:

John,

I do understand WF's standard for ACA and I think all the ACAs are gorgeous. I'm not putting the ACAs down in any way. However, I have a Superbcert Special (cut to all Superbcert's standards and perfect H&A but fell short of the Superbcert name because the polish was only VG as opposed to Ex). Without a scope, I really cannot tell the difference. It's performance blew everything else out of the water.

Also, I've seen some H&As that look great and some H&As that look just so-so. Just because it is an H&A doesn't necesssarily mean it is going to be a super stone but it is more likely than not. That's all I'm trying to say. That's what my eyes tell me. I'm sure there are others who CAN tell the difference but I cannot if all conditions are the same (same ct weight, same ideal cut but one has the perfect pattern and the other doesn't have the perfect pattern).----------------

Chrono – Thanks for the kind words on ACA. We’re on the same page with regard to how all of these elite stones compare to average diamond on average hand on average stranger in an average land (hey, did that sound like Bob Dylan to you?).

I agree that for pedestrian purposes of causal "wow" you can find diamonds, not branded as "best of the best," which perform well to your eyes and the eyes of many others.

My point is this: For immediate assurance of acquiring one of these elite, best of the best performers with the safety of the “guarantee of pedigree” (DA - I like that), the smart money is on a proven brand.

 

[noobie]

John,




I think that part of chrono's point was that a non-branded stone can perform just as well as a branded on without carrying the premium and, I agree with that. Personally, I look for perfomance and price ratio first. If it has H&A, then nice bonus, if not and it's a good value to me then I don't care about H&A.




Your point about going branded for consistency is a valid, but it's no different from buying any other premium proven brand. If it makes you feel more comfortable, then fine. However, people on a tighter budget or just looking for the best value, can find a stone that performs as well as a branded stone for all practical purposes, especially considering personal preferences, at a lower cost.




BTW, no offense intended, but I think your coming close to crossing the line in promoting ACAs here. Edited to add: I see you edited the post, so this is no longer relevant. I thought it was unintentional

 

[Jennifer5973]

I disagree with the car anlaogy because the relativity is way off... I think the really well cut diamond that is not an official H&A is the BMW. The super duper Ideal H&A is the top-of-the-line Mercedes or maybe even the rolls royce. To say the figurative chasm is analogous to the difference between a Hundai, Toyota or Honda and a Mercedes is overstating, IMHO.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Noobie,

Methinks opinion is polarizing to matters of personal taste, budget & comfort. A nice summary can be taken from your two lead sentences:

(Noobie said)
>

>


PS: I edited the prior almost immediately after sending/re-reading... Your timing was immaculate.

 

[Hest88]

I'm jumping in here late, so I'm a bit confused. Is the initial question:

1) Is a stone that exhibits H&As worth the extra money over a stone that doesn't?

OR

2) Is a stone BRANDED as a H&A worth more than an unbranded stone.

They're completely different questions in my mind.

 

[zoobiedo]

I've only seen small ACA stones in my setting as accents for my main stone (which is a marquise) but I can tell you that they SPARKLE and SCINTILLATE more than any other stones I have seen in store bought settings. Would I only purchase a ACA or Superbcert or H&A for my main stone -- I can't answer since I'm not a RB person -- but for accent stones they are incredible and if that translates over to RB then I would say there is a big difference. Seeing is believing so look at one.

 

[chrono]

Rothana,

To get the best online means doing a bit of scouting around. You'll need the following:
1. Get sarin numbers
2. Compare the cut to the AGA DIY Cut Grading
3. Plug all the sarin numbers into the DIY Holloway Cut Advisor to see if HCA>2
4. View the Idealscope picture

If you purchase from a good vendor, the diamond will already have all or almost all these information on hand. The community here at PriceScope also do not mind helping to critique the stone's performance either. This is not a difficult task.

As for melees, you can get excellent melees (or accent stones) that are gorgeous without going for a brand name as well. I used to think I had to get ACAs for my 7 stone diamond band until I did more research. My melees being 5 pointers, I saw no difference in its performance with branded ones. My unbranded melees has beautiful arrows too and throws lots of tiny sparkles in all light conditions, including fluorescent lighting. The trick (if you want to call it a trick) is to get well cut stones. The key word here again is the CUT. There are many vendors on PS who sell melees. They don't advertise it though so you'll have to call. I believe GOG, NiceIce and Wink sells very well cut melees of various sizes.

 

[hoorray]

Rothana,

Chrono gave you a good approach on buying a diamond online. Just to add to it, most vendors will send you magnified pictures of the stone and it's inclusions. You should understand where and what kind and color the inclusions are, and exactly how "eye-clean" the stone really is. It seems to have different meaning to different people, and people's eye-sight vary. (You don't typically want them to break the surface or be visible to the naked eye.) If you are considering an SI stone, this is particularly important.

You can usually have one or more stones sent to a local appraiser so that you can view them before purchasing them. If this isn't practical, make sure you have a good return policy, and take or ship the stone of choice to an independent appraiser for verification and assistance on the final purchase decision.


Ask more questions here or post the specs and pics of the stones you are considering, and people here will give you opinions.

 

[lmurden]

Hi John,
Thanks for you answer!