SI1/SI2 eye clean or impossible??

[lovehersomuch]

So I saw a SI2 diamond today at my jeweler and unfortunately it wasnt eye clean. I was clearly able to see the "white clouds" which are like lines in a cluster in the diamond. There were all over the table and girdle. My jeweler though told me that this is the cleanest SI2 that Im going to find and showed me other SI2s that had more inclusions and an SI1 that had had far worse clarity then the SI2 I was interested in.

I havent seen that many diamonds in person and wanted to know if it is possible to have an eye clean SI2 diamond - at least something not on that table that is noticeable with the naked eye. I always thought that it was possible to find an eye clean SI2.

The jeweler basically said that all SI1/SI2s will have some sort of inclusion either clouds, wisps, black inclusions etc.. and will be noticeable to the naked eye.

I personally think the jeweler was trying to get me to buy the diamond i was interested in and have me "settle" for it.

thanks for the clarification....

 

[:)]

Date: 3/26/2008 11:17:10 PM
Author:lovehersomuch
So I saw a SI2 diamond today at my jeweler and unfortunately it wasnt eye clean. I was clearly able to see the ''white clouds'' which are like lines in a cluster in the diamond. There were all over the table and girdle. My jeweler though told me that this is the cleanest SI2 that Im going to find and showed me other SI2s that had more inclusions and an SI1 that had had far worse clarity then the SI2 I was interested in.

I havent seen that many diamonds in person and wanted to know if it is possible to have an eye clean SI2 diamond - at least something not on that table that is noticeable with the naked eye. I always thought that it was possible to find an eye clean SI2.

The jeweler basically said that all SI1/SI2s will have some sort of inclusion either clouds, wisps, black inclusions etc.. and will be noticeable to the naked eye.

I personally think the jeweler was trying to get me to buy the diamond i was interested in and have me ''settle'' for it.

thanks for the clarification....

Hogwash. You are right

 

[pocahontas]

Ditto. My BF and I just bought a very eye-clean SI1.

 

[sera]

I have an eyeclean SI2.

 

[marcy]

I would say it depends on the diamond and your eye sight. I have seen many eye clean SI diamonds.

 

[mandas]

I have a beautiful eye clean F SI2 that I purchased from JamesAllen.com. They were great to work with and provided pleanty of photos. I was able to speak to one of their gemologists while she looked at the stone which was a great help in making my decision.

 

[krisvrn]

Yes it is possible to buy SI eyeclean diamonds. Many PSers have. Keep looking.

 

[Sparkalicious]

Date: 3/26/2008 11:52:48 PM
Author: marcyc
I would say it depends on the diamond and your eye sight. I have seen many eye clean SI diamonds.

I agree with Marcy. It really depends on your eye sight and your definition of eye clean.

I was looking for an eyeclean Si1 or Si2 diamond and was not able to find one to my liking. Then again, I was also scrutinizing it right up close and checking out the certification plot and trying to find the inclusions. Once I "found" them or if I could find them, the diamond was no longer "eye clean" to me.

Due to my issues, I had to move up to VS2 to just avoid the whole scenario.

Many people are quite comfy with this definition, as is stated on the WF website: "No inclusions visible face-up at a distance of 8-10 inches in natural lighting to a person with 20/20 vision." After all, if no one can "see" the inclusions without giving your diamond a physical, then it is "eyeclean", right?

I don''t necessarily think that your jeweler was trying to get you to buy the diamond and having you settle, per se. What they may have been trying to communicate is that it is not necessarily easy or commonplace to find a truly eyeclean SI1 or SI2 diamond. It takes some work and some time to find the perfect one but when you do find it, boy what a deal that baby is!

What is your definition of eyeclean?

 

[mandas]

Good point about ones definition of eye clean. I have 20/30 vision and am a stickler for detail. I drive people crazy shopping because I am the first to find any minor imperfection on an item they want (miss-stitch in fabric, tiny bead missing). So, the first thing I did when I recieved my ring was to take it outside in the sun and examine it really close. To my surprise, I could not see any imperfections. I was familiar with the definition of eye clean and expected to be able to find inclusions at very close inspection. I have since done the exam many times, almost as a challenge now, and still don''t see any inclusions! So, I ordered a 10x jewelers loup with my GemOro Sparkle Spa. Well, with the 10x magnification, I can now find a few feathers and the tiny speck of carbon that was on the GIA map, but it took some time and they aren''t easy to find the first time. All in all I am very impressed with my SI2, but maybe I just got lucky.

Good luck with your search because I know they are out there.

Amanda

 

[hairgirl95]

Ditto all the great advice! I personally have a GIA graded SI1, and it is TOTALLY eyeclean. In fact, I have a hard time finding the flaws even with the loupe. And trust me, I am a scrutinizer!

I probably spent 20 minutes turning this stone to every possible angle to look for the flaws. I was able to find them after some time with the loupe, but I had to use the map on the GIA cert. to find them. When looking at the stone again in normal vision, and knowing where the flaws were, I was not able to see them. I suppose it depends on where the flaws are, and what color they are. Mine has no black spots, but has 2 "cloudish" spots and it also has an extra facet on one end of the oval. My former jeweler (who can be a major pain in the bootie) "claims" that if it weren''t for the extra facet, GIA would have graded this stone VS2. Who knows if that is fact or fiction, but thought I would throw it out. I take this to mean that there are many factors in determining the clarity, and you can find eyeclean in the SI range. Have fun on the diamond hunt

 

[arjunajane]

It is true that people have different perceptions of eyeclean - that said, ur jeweller is talking rubbish. Excuse me if this has been discussed previous, but is there a reason why you don''t just find a great diamond online from a well trusted vendor.? That will probably save you some headaches.
I would feel very uncomfortable if my jeweller were spinning me a line while trying to get me to "settle" on that diamond (maybe he just doesn''t want to pay the return shipping!

)

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 3/27/2008 12:51:10 AM
Author: mandas
Good point about ones definition of eye clean. I have 20/30 vision and am a stickler for detail. I drive people crazy shopping because I am the first to find any minor imperfection on an item they want (miss-stitch in fabric, tiny bead missing). So, the first thing I did when I recieved my ring was to take it outside in the sun and examine it really close. To my surprise, I could not see any imperfections. I was familiar with the definition of eye clean and expected to be able to find inclusions at very close inspection. I have since done the exam many times, almost as a challenge now, and still don''t see any inclusions! So, I ordered a 10x jewelers loup with my GemOro Sparkle Spa. Well, with the 10x magnification, I can now find a few feathers and the tiny speck of carbon that was on the GIA map, but it took some time and they aren''t easy to find the first time. All in all I am very impressed with my SI2, but maybe I just got lucky.

Good luck with your search because I know they are out there.

Amanda

I have 20/30 vision and am a stickler for detail.
Amanda, I''ve heard of 20/20 but what does 20/30 vision mean? Just curious..
Also well done for you for finding such a fab sounding SI2! Do you have a thread?

 

[icekid]

loveshersomuch- your jewelers is trying to sell you a line of crap, and because of that I would personally be reluctant to continue working with him. I don''t think you can continue to trust his judgment anymore. As you can see, there are many here w/ eye-clean SI stones! I personally own a lovely SI2, that is completely clean.

Date: 3/27/2008 4:44:54 AM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 3/27/2008 12:51:10 AM
Author: mandas
Good point about ones definition of eye clean. I have 20/30 vision and am a stickler for detail. I drive people crazy shopping because I am the first to find any minor imperfection on an item they want (miss-stitch in fabric, tiny bead missing). So, the first thing I did when I recieved my ring was to take it outside in the sun and examine it really close. To my surprise, I could not see any imperfections. I was familiar with the definition of eye clean and expected to be able to find inclusions at very close inspection. I have since done the exam many times, almost as a challenge now, and still don''t see any inclusions! So, I ordered a 10x jewelers loup with my GemOro Sparkle Spa. Well, with the 10x magnification, I can now find a few feathers and the tiny speck of carbon that was on the GIA map, but it took some time and they aren''t easy to find the first time. All in all I am very impressed with my SI2, but maybe I just got lucky.

Good luck with your search because I know they are out there.

Amanda

I have 20/30 vision and am a stickler for detail.
Amanda, I''ve heard of 20/20 but what does 20/30 vision mean? Just curious..
Also well done for you for finding such a fab sounding SI2! Do you have a thread?

off topic, but I''ll throw this out there too. 20/20 vision means that the person see at 20 feet what the avg person sees at 20 feet. normal vision. 20/30 vision is WORSE than 20/20, because it means that a person can see the same thing at 20 feet that an avg person can see at 30 feet.

 

[teppy]

The truth is that from what I understand SI1''s and SI2''s will have some flaws that are noticable when viewing without any magnification. But, whether you have to turn the diamond and view it from the side and if its eyeclean from the top view is really what you want to look for. I have a set of 3.25 carat princess earrings that are SI2''s. I had to really study them alot to be able to notice anything from the top and still its hard to see. Its when I view them from the side that I can see the black carbon spots. And even thats not too bad. Each earring only has one spot. Other than that, there is nothing else there. To me, they stand up nicely on the side of my VS1 ring. I''m attatching a photo pointing one of the black spots when viewing from the side. I had to zoom in really close and crop the photo alot so its a little fuzzy.

 

[teppy]

And heres one of the earrings on the side of my VS1 ring.

 

[Isabelle]

I would run, not walk, away from that jeweler. SI1 diamonds, if they are actually SI1, should be eye clean. You can see the inclusion with a loupe, always. SI2 diamonds have surface inclusions that you can see more easily, sometimes without a loupe. However, there are times when an sI2 can be eye clean if the diamond is cut well and then the inclusion isn''t as apparent. From what you described, the SI1 he showed you with the far more noticeable inclusions was probably an I1, and the SI2 he showed you was probably an I1 or I2. I think he has shown you that he is more interested in taking your money than telling the truth. Use someone else if you want to go local, or use one of the great vendors the people here recommend. But before you do anything, I would recommend getting more educated on diamonds so that no jeweler can take advantage of your lack of knowledge.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 3/27/2008 8:26:52 AM
Author: icekid
loveshersomuch- your jewelers is trying to sell you a line of crap, and because of that I would personally be reluctant to continue working with him. I don''t think you can continue to trust his judgment anymore. As you can see, there are many here w/ eye-clean SI stones! I personally own a lovely SI2, that is completely clean.

Date: 3/27/2008 4:44:54 AM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 3/27/2008 12:51:10 AM
Author: mandas
Good point about ones definition of eye clean. I have 20/30 vision and am a stickler for detail. I drive people crazy shopping because I am the first to find any minor imperfection on an item they want (miss-stitch in fabric, tiny bead missing). So, the first thing I did when I recieved my ring was to take it outside in the sun and examine it really close. To my surprise, I could not see any imperfections. I was familiar with the definition of eye clean and expected to be able to find inclusions at very close inspection. I have since done the exam many times, almost as a challenge now, and still don''t see any inclusions! So, I ordered a 10x jewelers loup with my GemOro Sparkle Spa. Well, with the 10x magnification, I can now find a few feathers and the tiny speck of carbon that was on the GIA map, but it took some time and they aren''t easy to find the first time. All in all I am very impressed with my SI2, but maybe I just got lucky.

Good luck with your search because I know they are out there.

Amanda

I have 20/30 vision and am a stickler for detail.
Amanda, I''ve heard of 20/20 but what does 20/30 vision mean? Just curious..
Also well done for you for finding such a fab sounding SI2! Do you have a thread?

off topic, but I''ll throw this out there too. 20/20 vision means that the person see at 20 feet what the avg person sees at 20 feet. normal vision. 20/30 vision is WORSE than 20/20, because it means that a person can see the same thing at 20 feet that an avg person can see at 30 feet.

Hi Icekid, thankyou for the explanation. Perhaps the poster made a mistake, as in that case I would have 20/30 vision too

(wear glasses for distance).

Also LHSM - I''m currently buying an SI1 diamond which I haven''t seen in person, but I know to be eyeclean because I trust my vendor. I also know that if it gets here and its not up to my standards on the clarity or anything else, I have a 30 day return period. These are just a couple of the perks from buying from a great PS vendor - I urge you to consider this for ur purchase and forget about this jeweller who is teling you "less than the truth".
If you just post a topic with what you''re looking for, the experts will find you a crackin diamond in no time

 

[Jenn5504]

It certainly IS possible to find an eyeclean SI stone. I have an eye clean SI2. I also have an SI1 that is not eye clean. Get in touch with one of these PS trusted vendors (......I must say, I would not go with BN if you''re trying to get an honest assessment of eyecleanliness....at least in my experience they aren''t going to tell it like it is like WF and others will.) and I''m sure you''ll be able to find an eyeclean SI stone.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 3/26/2008 11:17:10 PM
Author:lovehersomuch



The jeweler basically said that all SI1/SI2s will have some sort of inclusion either clouds, wisps, black inclusions etc.. and will be noticeable to the naked eye.


I personally think the jeweler was trying to get me to buy the diamond i was interested in and have me ''settle'' for it.


thanks for the clarification....

Sounds to me like you need to listen to your inner voice.

It is hard not to make sarcastic comments about "what was that idiot selling last week" as they would come across as rude, but sometimes I really do wonder.

It is actually rare to see an eye visible inclusion in an SI2 from the top and even more rare in an SI1. Now, if you are looking from the side or bottom of the stone, then yes, it is often easy to see inclusions, but this is not how they are graded since the normal viewing position of a diamond is from the top.

Your question is a good one and your instinct even better. That was not a real jeweler you were speaking with, or such a comment would not have been made.

Wink

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 3/27/2008 8:26:52 AM
Author: icekid



off topic, but I''ll throw this out there too. 20/20 vision means that the person see at 20 feet what the avg person sees at 20 feet. normal vision. 20/30 vision is WORSE than 20/20, because it means that a person can see the same thing at 20 feet that an avg person can see at 30 feet.

True, BUT...

20/30 is slightly nearsighted and the person with 20/30 will see up close items much better than someone who has normal or farsighted vision. I am 20/200 which means I am nearly blind without my glasses. I do however have a perfect focal range at about 6 inches so I can inspect your jewelry without a loupe to check for prongs needing retipped etc. I have a slight amount of magnification in my eye when I am looking up close, so I can normally see inclusions that many can not without a loupe.

Many with my vision would be first in line for lasik, but as a jeweler I would not give up my near sightedness, it is much too useful.

Wink

 

[vintagelover229]

Ditto all the great advice! I personally have a GIA graded SI1, and it is TOTALLY eyeclean. In fact, I have a hard time finding the flaws even with the loupe. And trust me, I am a scrutinizer! I probably spent 20 minutes turning this stone to every possible angle to look for the flaws.

I have an SI1 and have searched a ton of times for flaws, and I mean UP CLOSE! There are times where I think I may have found something, and as quick as I seen it, it''s gone! I know that you CAN sometimes see flaws in an SI2 and then sometimes you cant. I think if you could see the flaws and the white cloudness, then i think you were probably viewing an I clairty stone. I could be wrong and it could be SI2, but I think if it''s that obvious, well then it woudln''t even get that "high" of a grading on the clarity scale. There are MANY perfectly clean close up eye clean diamonds out there. Just find a diamond vendor like WF, JamesAllen, GOG, etc to help you on your search. They know what you want and what you dont and they will help you find your stone. No use trying to spend more money and then try to have the guy convince you to settle for a stone. Keep searching your diamond is out there!

 

[WinkHPD]

Which brings to mind another question about this SI stone you were looking at?

Who says it was SI? Was it the jeweler or did he have a secondary or tertiary lab "cert" on it. I am guessing that it may not have been a GIA or AGS document.

Wink

 

[pauly1]

A very happy SI2 owner here. In my opinion there are beautiful SI2 stones out there which I consider eye clean, but you have to look for them. It can take a while, but they are around if you''re willing to put in the time.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-new-cushion-with-setting-to-follow-shortly.73335/

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 3/27/2008 9:39:59 AM
Author: Wink

Date: 3/27/2008 8:26:52 AM
Author: icekid



off topic, but I''ll throw this out there too. 20/20 vision means that the person see at 20 feet what the avg person sees at 20 feet. normal vision. 20/30 vision is WORSE than 20/20, because it means that a person can see the same thing at 20 feet that an avg person can see at 30 feet.

True, BUT...

20/30 is slightly nearsighted and the person with 20/30 will see up close items much better than someone who has normal or farsighted vision. I am 20/200 which means I am nearly blind without my glasses. I do however have a perfect focal range at about 6 inches so I can inspect your jewelry without a loupe to check for prongs needing retipped etc. I have a slight amount of magnification in my eye when I am looking up close, so I can normally see inclusions that many can not without a loupe.

Many with my vision would be first in line for lasik, but as a jeweler I would not give up my near sightedness, it is much too useful.

Wink

Good and interesting info, Wink, thankyou for clarifying! thats so funny what you said about wanting to keep your near sightedness

So does that mean, as someone who also "suffers" the same trait as you, will I have a better chance of seeing inclusions up close or is it all just down to experience?

 

[JerseyWoman]

Just curious, but what was the certification on the stone you saw? I agree w/ what has already be said above. I just purchased an SI2 and cannot see anything no matter how hard I try ... even w/ the loup (sp?). I am a novice who researched a lot before going out to buy a diamond. Just too many unknown factors when making such a large purchase. Am I an expert, no. But I was an informed consumer before making the purchase. Sounds like you are moving in the right direction just by the fact that you are on this website. Good luck!

 

[ktrkate08]

I have an eyeclean SI2 (well, eyeclean to me...but I do have 20/20!) I agree with the other posters who warned you against that jeweler - seems a little bit off to me.

 

[akmiss]

I have a G SI1 ACA and it is completely clean. Maybe an Eagle Eye can spot something but I can''t see a thing. To be honest, I would advise buying a diamond from one of the vendors here on price-scope. I doubt that any will try and "take" you.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 3/27/2008 10:16:49 AM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 3/27/2008 9:39:59 AM
Author: Wink

Date: 3/27/2008 8:26:52 AM
Author: icekid



off topic, but I''ll throw this out there too. 20/20 vision means that the person see at 20 feet what the avg person sees at 20 feet. normal vision. 20/30 vision is WORSE than 20/20, because it means that a person can see the same thing at 20 feet that an avg person can see at 30 feet.

True, BUT...

20/30 is slightly nearsighted and the person with 20/30 will see up close items much better than someone who has normal or farsighted vision. I am 20/200 which means I am nearly blind without my glasses. I do however have a perfect focal range at about 6 inches so I can inspect your jewelry without a loupe to check for prongs needing retipped etc. I have a slight amount of magnification in my eye when I am looking up close, so I can normally see inclusions that many can not without a loupe.

Many with my vision would be first in line for lasik, but as a jeweler I would not give up my near sightedness, it is much too useful.

Wink

Good and interesting info, Wink, thankyou for clarifying! thats so funny what you said about wanting to keep your near sightedness

So does that mean, as someone who also ''suffers'' the same trait as you, will I have a better chance of seeing inclusions up close or is it all just down to experience?

A bit of both. If your eyes are like mine you see better at close up than your regular sighted friends who at age 40 begins asking their friends to hold up the paper about 40 inches from their eyes so they can focus. (I believe that is called presbeopia, but I may be wrong, and I KNOW I misspelled it!)

Wink

 

[lovehersomuch]

Date: 3/27/2008 9:10:16 AM
Author: Isabelle
I would run, not walk, away from that jeweler. SI1 diamonds, if they are actually SI1, should be eye clean. You can see the inclusion with a loupe, always. SI2 diamonds have surface inclusions that you can see more easily, sometimes without a loupe. However, there are times when an sI2 can be eye clean if the diamond is cut well and then the inclusion isn''t as apparent. From what you described, the SI1 he showed you with the far more noticeable inclusions was probably an I1, and the SI2 he showed you was probably an I1 or I2. I think he has shown you that he is more interested in taking your money than telling the truth. Use someone else if you want to go local, or use one of the great vendors the people here recommend. But before you do anything, I would recommend getting more educated on diamonds so that no jeweler can take advantage of your lack of knowledge.

trust me im educated enough to know about diamonds to make a purchase. thats why i decided not to purchase this diamond.

BTW... this jeweler im talking about is one that is supposedly highly regarded around these forums....

 

[lovehersomuch]

Date: 3/27/2008 9:23:12 AM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 3/27/2008 8:26:52 AM
Author: icekid
loveshersomuch- your jewelers is trying to sell you a line of crap, and because of that I would personally be reluctant to continue working with him. I don't think you can continue to trust his judgment anymore. As you can see, there are many here w/ eye-clean SI stones! I personally own a lovely SI2, that is completely clean.

Date: 3/27/2008 4:44:54 AM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 3/27/2008 12:51:10 AM
Author: mandas
Good point about ones definition of eye clean. I have 20/30 vision and am a stickler for detail. I drive people crazy shopping because I am the first to find any minor imperfection on an item they want (miss-stitch in fabric, tiny bead missing). So, the first thing I did when I recieved my ring was to take it outside in the sun and examine it really close. To my surprise, I could not see any imperfections. I was familiar with the definition of eye clean and expected to be able to find inclusions at very close inspection. I have since done the exam many times, almost as a challenge now, and still don't see any inclusions! So, I ordered a 10x jewelers loup with my GemOro Sparkle Spa. Well, with the 10x magnification, I can now find a few feathers and the tiny speck of carbon that was on the GIA map, but it took some time and they aren't easy to find the first time. All in all I am very impressed with my SI2, but maybe I just got lucky.

Good luck with your search because I know they are out there.

Amanda

I have 20/30 vision and am a stickler for detail.
Amanda, I've heard of 20/20 but what does 20/30 vision mean? Just curious..
Also well done for you for finding such a fab sounding SI2! Do you have a thread?

off topic, but I'll throw this out there too. 20/20 vision means that the person see at 20 feet what the avg person sees at 20 feet. normal vision. 20/30 vision is WORSE than 20/20, because it means that a person can see the same thing at 20 feet that an avg person can see at 30 feet.

Hi Icekid, thankyou for the explanation. Perhaps the poster made a mistake, as in that case I would have 20/30 vision too

(wear glasses for distance).

Also LHSM - I'm currently buying an SI1 diamond which I haven't seen in person, but I know to be eyeclean because I trust my vendor. I also know that if it gets here and its not up to my standards on the clarity or anything else, I have a 30 day return period. These are just a couple of the perks from buying from a great PS vendor - I urge you to consider this for ur purchase and forget about this jeweller who is teling you 'less than the truth'.
If you just post a topic with what you're looking for, the experts will find you a crackin diamond in no time

ummm this is a pricescope recommended B&M/online vender.. i dont want to disclose the name to hurt their reputation but def did not have a good experience.