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Should I upgrade my 2.79 CBI?

cflutist

Ideal_Rock
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I currently have a 2.79 F-VS1 CBI that I am considering upgrading to the 3.12 G-VVS2 on the Wolf-CBI website. While 2.79 is nice, it would be great to break the 3+ ct barrier. I can see a pinpoint in the magnified video at 4 o'clock but it would be invisible to the naked eye.

I am not sure of what to do. Because of Covid-19 we had 4 cruises canceled so there is money available for a treat. But do you think I should upgrade to go from 9.04 mm to 9.46 mm? Is that enough of a mm increase?

The 60.8% depth percentage is nice because the diamond faces up a bit larger than if it were 61.9%.

What would you do? Do you think incremental upgrades are a thing to do since you do get to enjoy a larger stone while you save up to maybe get your holy grail 10mm stone in the future?

Your thoughts?

@John Pollard why does GCAL grade clarity it at VS1 while GIA and AGS have it at VVS2? In the past I thought that GIA was supposed to be most strict?

 
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LLJsmom

Super_Ideal_Rock
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11,468
Yep I could see the size difference. Just not sure if the color difference will bother you. But If you know it won’t yes I’d do it.
 

DejaWiz

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 23, 2021
Messages
516
Tough call. The size difference is twice the usually detectable 0.2mm, so it'll be obviously bigger in diameter while getting you over that magic 3 carat mark then going for an another incremental upgrade in the near future.

On the other hand, saving up more to jump right around to a full 1mm bigger diameter would be spectacular!

Either route will get you where you seem to want to be, which is that gargantuan 10+ mm diameter.

Decisions, decisions...eh?
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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CF
Are you planning on using the same setting? If yes will it fit?
 

Lookinagain

Brilliant_Rock
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Agree you will definitely see the size increase. G color for me is plenty white, but you may be more sensitive to color than I am. Even if you are, would the slight difference bother you? If you upgrade now, are you at least locking in the price now instead of waiting for 10 mm stone and risking that diamond prices in general will have risen? Math is not my strong suit but does upgrading now give you more % of the future 10 mm stone at current prices instead of future prices (if you get what I'm trying to say)? If it does, then I'd definitely upgrade now as it would make economic sense assuming that the odds are that prices will rise at least to keep pace with inflation? Not sure what I'm saying makes sense to you. I know what I'm trying to say, but not sure I'm presenting it correctly. I guess I'm saying, I would do it now if the color works for you.
 

Bonfire

Ideal_Rock
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The old color vs size quandary. What’s most important to you?
 

chamois

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
500
Yes, absolutely! Lovely stone and a great upgrade. Just a few thoughts….would YOU be happy giving up your F for the G? I think it might be worth checking where the G is in its colour range (low or high)? Is your current setting going to work with the upgrade, or perhaps a new setting is appealing to you?
Good luck!
 

Decision_Decisions

Shiny_Rock
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Apr 29, 2016
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308
I've been watching these stones since the website came back up (first as HPD, now as Wolf) and it seems like the inventory turnover is slow. Since you're looking for such a large stone you might not have many options unless you get a custom cut. I would probably go with this one to lock in the current price, I think it will be noticably bigger. Do you have a setting with a peg head you can just change out?
 

nala

Ideal_Rock
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Oct 23, 2011
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5,619
I’m gonna try to answer your questions. Is .40 mm enough of a difference? yes.
I have only ever done incremental upgrades and they have been very satisfying each time. No regrets ever about those.
You didn’t mention the color as a factor but If I recall correctly, you are very color sensitive? If you are not, then I would go for it. But if you are, the only risk you face is losing your 2.79 F and not being able to readily replace it.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 23, 2018
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5,206
A few thoughts crossed my mind....

1. Does this mean a 2.79 F-VS1 with 54ish table, 34.5/40.8 is about to be in-play? :eek2:

2. Have you seen it to compare against your 2.79? Wondering if you will notice any personality difference in the 34/40.8.

3. Is the 2.79 a high, low or middle F color? Where in the range does the 3.12 G fall? Strong G and low F would be negligible.

4. Any shot of getting that 3.12 in your hands to compare for a few days in regards to color and personality?

5. You don't have to answer this on the forum, but how does your buy-in price to the 2.79 look in comparison to the buy-in price of the 3.12? Meaning did you buy the 2.79 in a "valley" and are you buying the 3.12 in a "peak", which would weaken your money position (trade value)?

You have excellent tastes, so I am relatively certain whatever choice you make will be a solid decision. If that's the stone I've drooled over in the past, I'm a little sad that timing isn't right that I could snatch it up for my wife should you decide to pull the trigger.
 

mrs-b

Ideal_Rock
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Hallo @cflutist -

You and I have tracked pretty closely together in some ways over the years, and you may be aware that I've just gone from a 3.05 F VS2 to a 4.05 H VS1 - both ACAs.

I dreaded the change, and went back and forth over this stone for MONTHS. Frankly, I was lucky it was still there when I finally took my courage in both hands and made the leap.

I had had a 3.4ct H VS1 in the past and it was very white and one of the loveliest diamonds I've ever owned - FAR whiter than the 4.01ct I VS1 I bought after it. That I stone was far too warm for me and went back almost immediately. So this time when I upgraded, I was hoping for something far closer to the 3.4ct H than the 4.01ct I colored diamond.

And indeed - I was very lucky! My new diamond is a lovely white H, and the size is...well...fabulous!

In the past, I've gone DOWN .4mm, and it bugged me unrelentingly. So going UP .4mm is more than worth it, in my book. You'll definitely see a difference, and the impact on the eye is very restful. I can't think of any other way to describe it. It's just...restful.

As for color, I know you like a nice white diamond - so do I! - but I think a CBI G should be lovely. For me, every bit as important as the size upgrade and the color issue was the clarity improvement I got from this latest upgrade. I went from a VS2 (never again) to a VS! (aaaaahh!) - and a VVS would be a luxury indeed!

So for my money - I say go for it! What a diamond!!
 

cflutist

Ideal_Rock
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Jul 12, 2004
Messages
4,004
CF
Are you planning on using the same setting? If yes will it fit?

DF I know that you can't change stone sizes with a tension setting such as yours, and I know that a change of .2mm can usually be accommodated in an existing head. But I am not sure about .4mm. HPD Symphonie does have a swoopy structure and maybe the prongs could be re-tipped for .4mm more? I sent an email to Melissa asking what could be done to savage any parts of the mounting.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
57,727
I think the size is worth changing, but the big question is whether you'll be happy going down to G, as others have said. That's hard to predict since it's totally personal preference. I think you should have them send it to you to look at before you think too much more about it. I wouldn't let the setting influence my decision. I would think you'd need a new head or whole new setting.
 

oncrutchesrightnow

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 17, 2006
Messages
583
Well even if it isn’t a huge increase in size it does get you over the 3ct mark and it sounds like that is important to you. A G color might be warmer than your ideal diamond but isn’t going to look sickly yellow. I say go for it.
 

cflutist

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Messages
4,004
Agree you will definitely see the size increase. G color for me is plenty white, but you may be more sensitive to color than I am. Even if you are, would the slight difference bother you? If you upgrade now, are you at least locking in the price now instead of waiting for 10 mm stone and risking that diamond prices in general will have risen? Math is not my strong suit but does upgrading now give you more % of the future 10 mm stone at current prices instead of future prices (if you get what I'm trying to say)? If it does, then I'd definitely upgrade now as it would make economic sense assuming that the odds are that prices will rise at least to keep pace with inflation? Not sure what I'm saying makes sense to you. I know what I'm trying to say, but not sure I'm presenting it correctly. I guess I'm saying, I would do it now if the color works for you.

Good point. We don't know where diamond prices will go. My very first CBI was purchased when prices were very high. When prices dropped several years later I traded in that diamond for a 2.18 E-VS1 that is now in a 3-stone ring.

As for a G color, I really have to think about it.
Yes, I am color sensitive, but I like lower colored diamonds too as evidenced by my 2.31 Q-VVS2 CBI. That diamond has a nice warmth to it and the clarity is more than I could ask for.

The other consideration is that DEF-VS1s get pretty pricey for weights greater than 3.00 CTs.
I'd go for it if I had CF's money ... nod.gif .40mm will be very noticeable.
I ran that tool and .40 is not very noticeable, only 10% more surface area.
 

cflutist

Ideal_Rock
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Jul 12, 2004
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A few thoughts crossed my mind....

1. Does this mean a 2.79 F-VS1 with 54ish table, 34.5/40.8 is about to be in-play? :eek2:

2. Have you seen it to compare against your 2.79? Wondering if you will notice any personality difference in the 34/40.8.

3. Is the 2.79 a high, low or middle F color? Where in the range does the 3.12 G fall? Strong G and low F would be negligible.

4. Any shot of getting that 3.12 in your hands to compare for a few days in regards to color and personality?

5. You don't have to answer this on the forum, but how does your buy-in price to the 2.79 look in comparison to the buy-in price of the 3.12? Meaning did you buy the 2.79 in a "valley" and are you buying the 3.12 in a "peak", which would weaken your money position (trade value)?

You have excellent tastes, so I am relatively certain whatever choice you make will be a solid decision. If that's the stone I've drooled over in the past, I'm a little sad that timing isn't right that I could snatch it up for my wife should you decide to pull the trigger.
I think you have the diamonds confused. The 2.79 has a 56.6% table. It is the 2.18 E-VS1 that has a 54.2% table.

As far as low, middle, or high F, I don't know because I never asked. In fact I never asked that question for any of my CBI diamonds.

I don't know if the market was high or low when I bought it.

I purchased all of my CBI diamonds, including my first cut-to-order without seeing them first.
A typical transaction with @Wink would go like this:

I am interested in a diamond, I look at the AGS report and the supporting imagery. Wink would make a video (some were kinda goofy, lol), I would look at the video and then decide if I would buy it. Wire the money, work with Melissa on the CAD, and then they would make the ring. I would not see the actual diamond until I received the ring.

Have not heard back from Melissa yet on whether any part of Symphonie could be reused.

CBI Collection.jpg
 

Gemstonesrock

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 16, 2019
Messages
160
@cflutist What a lovely dilemma to have. I have looked at and drooled over that exact 3.12 G VVS! My timing is not right, but if it was, I would absolutely upgrade my 2.23 E VS2 for that diamond.

Please please get it so I don't have to stare at it anymore (hahaha!!). I do think it would be an amazing upgrade. I am color sensitive and prefer my diamonds to look icy white vs have any warmth. I took a leap of faith and chose a H color SI1 CBI for a solitaire necklace, which was my husband's wedding gift to me. I have been using it as a test to see if going down in color and clarity would bother me, especially if I eventually have the opportunity to upgrade my e-ring stone. I have been so pleased with the H SI1 CBI stone. It's so white and I think it actually "performs" a tad better (scintillation, light return at the edges) than my e-ring stone. I have no regrets about my choice. Since an e-ring gets more scrutiny (and is seen from more angles) I concluded that in a CBI I would happily go to a G in color. I think I would just want to see the actual 3.12 G VVS2 stone to see if it "performs" in a similar way to your current stone. Good luck and let us know what you decide!!
 

RunningwithScissors

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 29, 2019
Messages
2,109
What fun a possibility!

If it were me, I'd need to see the new diamond in person alongside my current diamond. Nuances in character, color and size are so difficult to evaluate in photos or videos. And there is just something about touching a stone, holding it in your hand (or seeing it in a gem tray in front of you) that lets you know if it is right for you or not.

You and Wink have known each other a long time, there is mutual respect and admiration, perhaps he'd send you the new diamond on approval?
 

cflutist

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Messages
4,004
Hallo @cflutist -

You and I have tracked pretty closely together in some ways over the years, and you may be aware that I've just gone from a 3.05 F VS2 to a 4.05 H VS1 - both ACAs.

I dreaded the change, and went back and forth over this stone for MONTHS. Frankly, I was lucky it was still there when I finally took my courage in both hands and made the leap.

I had had a 3.4ct H VS1 in the past and it was very white and one of the loveliest diamonds I've ever owned - FAR whiter than the 4.01ct I VS1 I bought after it. That I stone was far too warm for me and went back almost immediately. So this time when I upgraded, I was hoping for something far closer to the 3.4ct H than the 4.01ct I colored diamond.

And indeed - I was very lucky! My new diamond is a lovely white H, and the size is...well...fabulous!

In the past, I've gone DOWN .4mm, and it bugged me unrelentingly. So going UP .4mm is more than worth it, in my book. You'll definitely see a difference, and the impact on the eye is very restful. I can't think of any other way to describe it. It's just...restful.

As for color, I know you like a nice white diamond - so do I! - but I think a CBI G should be lovely. For me, every bit as important as the size upgrade and the color issue was the clarity improvement I got from this latest upgrade. I went from a VS2 (never again) to a VS! (aaaaahh!) - and a VVS would be a luxury indeed!

So for my money - I say go for it! What a diamond!!

@mrs-b

You have a fabulous jewelry collection. I totally understand your thought pattern. I struggle with whether it is the correct stone for me. Will I regret my decision if I rush into this? Am I settling with a G and over paying for a VVS2? A VS1 would be fine.
 

cflutist

Ideal_Rock
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Jul 12, 2004
Messages
4,004
20171027_135730.jpg

Img2632.jpg

Back view -Symphonie.jpg

@Dancing Fire
@diamondseeker2006

Here's the scoop about reusing HPD Symphonie:

Melissa said that she asked the benchperson and found out because of the swoopiness of this setting and because it is platinum, it could be modified to set a diamond with a diameter of 1.00mm more! She said that she learned that for the first time yesterday.

I also think that she said that the Tiffany inspired New Yorker and Boston in platinum could be modified to hold a diamond of .50 to .60mm more.

Now more food for thought, aggggh.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Apr 3, 2004
Messages
33,397
Here's the scoop about reusing HPD Symphonie:

Melissa said that she asked the benchperson and found out because of the swoopiness of this setting and because it is platinum, it could be modified to set a diamond with a diameter of 1.00mm more! She said that she learned that for the first time yesterday.

IOW, up to a 3.75ct!... :dance:
 
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sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,206
I’ve been off the radar the last few days but back. Still not home, but in travel.

Thanks for sharing more info @cflutist. Indeed, I was thinking of your 2.18 E-VS1.

As far as market pricing, it sounds like that isn’t really much of a factor. There are more sophisticated ways to determine this, but here is a rough approximation based on data through 3/2021. Purple line identifies 2-3 carat size. Looks to be on a slight uptick from 8/2017 when you initially purchased. I’d be curious to see through 6/2021. It might be slightly more. Excuse the imperfect red comparison lines, I did those freehand on my mobile.

Given the trust and relationship you have established with Wink, has he provided an input on the upgrade differences (color, minor proportions variation, etc)?

86580088-6F8F-4B05-BF29-7B8084A0F6E7.jpeg
5AE0135D-52C3-483B-B487-51FCC7B20108.jpeg
 

cflutist

Ideal_Rock
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Jul 12, 2004
Messages
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What fun a possibility!

If it were me, I'd need to see the new diamond in person alongside my current diamond. Nuances in character, color and size are so difficult to evaluate in photos or videos. And there is just something about touching a stone, holding it in your hand (or seeing it in a gem tray in front of you) that lets you know if it is right for you or not.

You and Wink have known each other a long time, there is mutual respect and admiration, perhaps he'd send you the new diamond on approval?

Yes, there is mutual respect and admiration.
But for me to see the diamond, I would need to wire the money to @Wink first before he would send me the diamond. Plus I would be responsible for it if I lost it. I have had diamonds skip across the room when I did my GIA Distance Learning Diamond Grading Class.
 

Diamond Girl 21

Brilliant_Rock
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Jun 26, 2017
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1,346
Yes, there is mutual respect and admiration.
But for me to see the diamond, I would need to wire the money to @Wink first before he would send me the diamond. Plus I would be responsible for it if I lost it. I have had diamonds skip across the room when I did my GIA Distance Learning Diamond Grading Class.

The same thing happened to me. I was absolutely frantic! It turns out the diamond traveled 3 rows behind me, and was found in my classmate's beard. Whew....
 

cflutist

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
4,004
The same thing happened to me. I was absolutely frantic! It turns out the diamond traveled 3 rows behind me, and was found in my classmate's beard. Whew....

@Wink told me the story of a 2 -3 CT diamond that escaped his tweezers back in 1976. His boss locked the doors, no one in or out until they found it. They searched for several hours ... and no diamond. Finally his boss suggested that he look in his trouser cuffs, and there it was phew.
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
46,909
If I were considering this I would absolutely want to see the diamond in question in person first. So I would wire the money to Wink and compare your diamond to the one you are considering. This way no guessing involved and you will know for sure if it is your "upgrade" diamond. Good luck @cflutist it is an exciting decision to make and IMO you cannot go wrong either way. I am sure both are beautiful diamonds and the only question that remains is which is more beautiful to you. :appl:
 

OdetteOdile

Brilliant_Rock
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Aug 8, 2019
Messages
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Yes, there is mutual respect and admiration.
But for me to see the diamond, I would need to wire the money to @Wink first before he would send me the diamond. Plus I would be responsible for it if I lost it. I have had diamonds skip across the room when I did my GIA Distance Learning Diamond Grading Class.

Can you ask them to set it into a very inexpensive setting so that you can compare it more easily to your current diamond with much less risk of losing it?
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,206
Better yet, jump on a plane and go see @Wink and all those gorgeous CBI’s! IMO, the purchase size justifies the ticket expense. Plus you get a small get away out of the deal.

My wife loves to travel so would already have the tickets booked. :mrgreen:
 
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