Should I give notice?

[JewelFreak]

This is a very hard one & I'm SO sorry you are going through it. Your skills & background sound terrific & applicable to any number of jobs within your field. It's excruciating to make the decision to bail -- scary to leave without another job in your pocket. I can tell you, though, Pinto Bean, having been there too, that you will be DELIGHTED after you do it.

I had a job that did similar things to me. The antagonistic, distrustful atmosphere was ruinous -- I pinched myself to be sure it wasn't a nightmare, living all day with treatment I'd never imagined possible in a workplace. I sat in my car before work to meditate every day, trying not to cry, just to find the strength to go in. One day, in the midst of the nastiest, most ridiculous & vicious performance review, my smarter self took over. I ripped up the review sheet, threw it on the director's desk, and walked out. Couldn't believe myself, but it saved my sanity & health.

10 yrs later I still shudder, thinking of that place, and bless the day I left. It's soul-destroying to endure that -- and believe me, you gain nothing worth paying that price.

The suggestion to document everything is excellent -- it will be handy in your exit interview. Maybe even add fuel to the fire underneath her.

You will find another job -- but it will be easier when you're less stressed out, when you think more clearly & present yourself more smoothly. In the meantime, your DH will love seeing his old girl again. You're doing all the right things to find something new & it WILL pan out. You have the luxury of DH's income, so let it save you!

And remember, this woman will soon be only a baaad memory -- that thought kept me going in a clutch.

Big hugs and CONFIDENCE!!!! You're a prize any company should want.

--- Laurie

 

[partgypsy]

Hello Pinto, well it sounds like you have a very valuable set of skills/education. I run/coordinate research studies. I apologize, must have mixed you up with someone else. In the situation that I was in, yes HR while being extremely sympathetic to me, the only thing they offered was to find me another job (nothing about rectifying this job situation). However I did document it and when I was leaving met with the organization's lawyer to give a report what happened. In response, all they did was ask if I was planning to sue, and also tried to get me to sign something to the affect I wasn't going to tell anyone what happened (which of course I didn't sign).

I don't think it was me (I'm small potatoes), but she did end up leaving not of her own accord. I figure it was either an accumulation of many complaints about her, or she ticked off someone more powerful than her.

 

[TooPatient]

I'd push for that rotation but if it hasn't happened in time -- take your anniversary off! You've been working super hard for a witch who doesn't appreciate you in the slightest and is doing the best she can to make you miserable. Take a vacation day or a sick day if you have to.

If possible, try to stick it out until you get hired at a different company or rotated out.
BUT if it is taking a longer time just quit. You deserve so much better. You can always do volunteer work or take some extra college classes while waiting to get hired at a different place.

 

[PintoBean]

This is THE ONE THING that pissed me off the most (forgive the swearing but I still get soooo annoyed by this) about upper management. Incompetence is rewarded with promotions. When the new president of the org I worked for asked me to give her a list of suggestions for improving the org, I gave her a list of the top 11 managers in the org that included 5 vice presidents and told her to fire them all. They were all gone within 3 yrs. All of those managers came to us with exceptional references, credentials, and long lists of achievements. Pure poppycock. Companies need to get rid of their dead weight so they hoist them off onto other companies by giving excellent references.

Oh and here's THE SECOND THING that pissed me off the most, incompetent managers are rarely fired, they are given the opportunity to resign first -- yanno, the press release that states "I've decided to move on to pursue other opportunities." And they move on usually to a higher paying position.

When I asked the president why we weren't honest about why the person moved on, she said she was reluctant to damage someone's reputation to which I replied....well didn't s/he damage it all by him/herself? And the reason we're in the position of getting rid of this person is because someone wasn't honest with us when we checked references so do you really feel good about doing that to another organization? After she thought about that bit, she was more comfortable outright firing the nincompoops and giving honest, rather than obtuse, references.

I am so glad I'm retired.

You more than earned that retirement! Your reply is PRICELESS!!!

 

[PintoBean]

This is a very hard one & I'm SO sorry you are going through it. Your skills & background sound terrific & applicable to any number of jobs within your field. It's excruciating to make the decision to bail -- scary to leave without another job in your pocket. I can tell you, though, Pinto Bean, having been there too, that you will be DELIGHTED after you do it.

I had a job that did similar things to me. The antagonistic, distrustful atmosphere was ruinous -- I pinched myself to be sure it wasn't a nightmare, living all day with treatment I'd never imagined possible in a workplace. I sat in my car before work to meditate every day, trying not to cry, just to find the strength to go in. One day, in the midst of the nastiest, most ridiculous & vicious performance review, my smarter self took over. I ripped up the review sheet, threw it on the director's desk, and walked out. Couldn't believe myself, but it saved my sanity & health.

10 yrs later I still shudder, thinking of that place, and bless the day I left. It's soul-destroying to endure that -- and believe me, you gain nothing worth paying that price.

The suggestion to document everything is excellent -- it will be handy in your exit interview. Maybe even add fuel to the fire underneath her.

You will find another job -- but it will be easier when you're less stressed out, when you think more clearly & present yourself more smoothly. In the meantime, your DH will love seeing his old girl again. You're doing all the right things to find something new & it WILL pan out. You have the luxury of DH's income, so let it save you!

And remember, this woman will soon be only a baaad memory -- that thought kept me going in a clutch.

Big hugs and CONFIDENCE!!!! You're a prize any company should want.

--- Laurie

Thank you for the vote of confidence, Laurie! I've often said to others that no amount of money is worth having if you don't have your health. Maybe it's time to take my own words at face value and live them!

I find that we have "confidentiality" issues at work. I've heard one director complain on one occasion that an exit interview given to someone fired consisted of that ex-employee complaining about this director before he was fired, and during the exit interview. Another time, the same director complained that someone who left voluntarily for another job complained about him, but it was really the employee's problem. It almost seems that when people complain on the way out, it's explained away as, "oh, they were fired, of course they would complain," or if they left voluntarily, "they were just unhappy people, of course they complained." and nothing changes. I'm almost tempted to leave with this statement. "I enjoyed my time at this company. I learned a lot. I gave a lot. I referred in employees that are some of your best "resources". I wouldn't have done that if I didn't believe in this company. It will continue to do well with or without me. Hasta la vista, baby!"

It's such a small world, too... I'll just put on my big girl pampers in case I have an accident stating these bald faced lies, if given an opportunity of an exit interview!

 

[PintoBean]

I'd push for that rotation but if it hasn't happened in time -- take your anniversary off! You've been working super hard for a witch who doesn't appreciate you in the slightest and is doing the best she can to make you miserable. Take a vacation day or a sick day if you have to.

If possible, try to stick it out until you get hired at a different company or rotated out.
BUT if it is taking a longer time just quit. You deserve so much better. You can always do volunteer work or take some extra college classes while waiting to get hired at a different place.

I will definitely try my damndest to push for that rotation. Right now, I'm looking at giving my two weeks notice on September 6. This still gives me a few weeks to think things through.

On a plus, a potential employer reached out to me on Monday through linkedin. I responded today, and there will be a teleconference on Monday. Woot!

I will document as everyone suggested. Even if I don't use the material during an exit interview, it could make for an interesting sequel to Officespace, the movie!

 

[distracts]

What's amazing is that my boss was top 5 at another place. They all got canned in a political ouster, but if she was really good, she would have been kept. I found articles online that stated that my boss and her cohorts were pretty much dead weight, morale killers, etc. I guess it's same behavior, different company for her... lol...

This is THE ONE THING that pissed me off the most (forgive the swearing but I still get soooo annoyed by this) about upper management. Incompetence is rewarded with promotions. When the new president of the org I worked for asked me to give her a list of suggestions for improving the org, I gave her a list of the top 11 managers in the org that included 5 vice presidents and told her to fire them all. They were all gone within 3 yrs. All of those managers came to us with exceptional references, credentials, and long lists of achievements. Pure poppycock. Companies need to get rid of their dead weight so they hoist them off onto other companies by giving excellent references.

Oh and here's THE SECOND THING that pissed me off the most, incompetent managers are rarely fired, they are given the opportunity to resign first -- yanno, the press release that states "I've decided to move on to pursue other opportunities." And they move on usually to a higher paying position.

When I asked the president why we weren't honest about why the person moved on, she said she was reluctant to damage someone's reputation to which I replied....well didn't s/he damage it all by him/herself? And the reason we're in the position of getting rid of this person is because someone wasn't honest with us when we checked references so do you really feel good about doing that to another organization? After she thought about that bit, she was more comfortable outright firing the nincompoops and giving honest, rather than obtuse, references.

I am so glad I'm retired.

Ugggghhhhh this happens at my husband's company. There's this morale killer who keeps getting raises and moving up just to move him out of working directly with employees all day, while all the other managers, who actually manage effectively, are stuck dealing with his left-behind team and dealing with him now getting up in their business. My husband is like "why couldn't they have promoted ANYONE but him??"

 

[JewelFreak]

It happens too often. Maybe that's one thing wrong w/American business -- but no, it happens in other countries too; I've worked in many foreign countries & so has DH. The company I walked out on was Tiffany -- and the AWFUL store director was promoted & now oversees several stores. Lucky them. Before Tiff, she was a producer at ABC News & I heard they hated her there too.

When we were first married, DH fled an international bank -- they worked till 9 or 10, and on weekends. The final straw was when they decided employees took breaks too often & too long (of course! they were exhausted!), so the mgmt -- I can hardly write this without laughing -- LOCKED the corridor doors & required people to ASK someone to let them out to go to the bathroom!

We have to work with mgrs we dislike, but we don't have to let them kill us. I felt like Tiff was destroying me inside -- heard myself say things I'd never said & burn with anger I'd never had before. Sounds like you are in much the same situation, Pinto. Don't wait too long for the rotation; if it doesn't come soon (promises don't count; action does), wave goodbye. It's kind of like your soul at stake, as well as your health.

You won't regret leaving. I promise. Picture me walking right along next to you whenever you quit!

--- Laurie

 

[PintoBean]

Distracts, Matata, Jewelfreak - I am SO happy for the outpouring of support. I even had DH sit down and read the whole thread because it's just absolutely amazing how wonderful the PS-family is . He really appreciates how everyone has rallied around me supportively, and shared their insights and wisdom. BUT, at the same time, I am so mad and saddened that others have had similar experiences impact their lives.

It sure is going to be a crowded room when I finally do give notice, with all my PS friends in there with me - in spirit!

 

[momhappy]

If the alternative is quitting and subsequently feeling sick/stressed about NOT having a job, then no, I wouldn't quit. I'd say that pretty much all of of us have things about our jobs that we don't like (some more than others), but it's a job, which is hard to come by these days. Sometimes, people get caught up in the grass-must-be-greener-on-the-other-side syndrome and quit because they think that something better will come along. In some cases, something better does come along, but in others it doesn't. In these uncertain times, I wouldn't give up a job unless A.) I knew that I could survive financially for a while with no job or B.) I had another job already lined up.

 

[ame]

Don't do it. Believe me I have been there. Ooooooooooh have I ever. But don't quit without a position lined up.

 

[partgypsy]

momhappy, she won't know until she quits. Believe, I am not a quitter. But when I left that job (fired) it was such a sense of peace and relief. I still feel bad about the projects and the papers I had written I had to leave behind, but in retrospect it wasn't worth the emotional health and self-esteem that took such a beating there. But it was only after I left did I realize what a distorted unhealthy situation it had become.

Good luck Pinto bean. I know you will find something better!

 

[TooPatient]

If the alternative is quitting and subsequently feeling sick/stressed about NOT having a job, then no, I wouldn't quit. I'd say that pretty much all of of us have things about our jobs that we don't like (some more than others), but it's a job, which is hard to come by these days. Sometimes, people get caught up in the grass-must-be-greener-on-the-other-side syndrome and quit because they think that something better will come along. In some cases, something better does come along, but in others it doesn't. In these uncertain times, I wouldn't give up a job unless A.) I knew that I could survive financially for a while with no job or B.) I had another job already lined up.

I agree with you on your conditions of quitting. That is why I stuck around my job as long as I did. Miserable work conditions stink. My job was unsafe to the point where I had to show up to work armed for a while. The person who got hired to replace me said that they've had more than one time of having to lock the office doors and have the police come. Everyone around said that I should just quit but I couldn't do that. The bit of money I made was the difference between paying most of our bills or some of our bills. I couldn't find a replacement job so I was stuck until we got to a better spot financially.


PintoBean -- You said in your OP that you could easily live (and have done so before) on just your DH's income? If so, you might take a look at your current expenses just to confirm that this is still the case. That should at least make you feel a bit more comfortable if you do decide to give notice without another job already lined up.

 

[PintoBean]

Thank you momhappy, ame, too happy, part gypsy.

I have been mulling over our household expenses just to conform that we would be OK if I were to quit without a job lined up. I was absolutely distracted at work today, a bit short in the fuse (patience nonexistent), and exhausted physically and emotionally. I have some major deadlines coming up for one of my projects, so it's a bit tough. I made a point of leaving work at work tonight. I also tried negotiating with myself - if you hang in there, you can treat yourself to a fancy shmancy watch?

Some pros - DH's car is paid off, we recently refinanced, so our new mortgage is less, I did finance a new car in July, but its 0% interest and over $100 less than what DH's car payments are. To cover my car, cellphone, cable, I would need to set aside 6 weeks paycheck to cover 6 months.

Cons - I do take pride in being a pretty decent earner for a woman, esp. In my company. If I didn't get a job right away, I could feel awful all over again, as momhappy pointed out.

Anyway you slice it, I need to hang in there till I complete my projects, the last one due September 20. Somehow I need to bolster myself up mentally and emotionally. I am going to start by treating myself well. My Boss said something in a meeting earlier this week. She looked at my coworker and I and said, "I know you guys are perfectionists, but with so many more projects going on than usual, you need to let things slide.". What the? If I let things slide, it gives her ammo to attack me later! Anyways, her comment got me thinking, well, maybe I need to take that anal retentive, control freaky energy of mine and focus it on myself in a positive way. Let's start with a pedicure after work Friday or early Saturday, and add on a 10 minute massage.

I also started a light fitness routine last week - I'm still exhausted, it I can honestly say that sleep has improved a smidge.

I am also going to make an effort to look cute. My hair was a mess today, and my attire an afterthought.

Sorry if this was rambling and a grammatical mess. I'm not that great at replying when I'm tired and thumb typing on a nexus.

PS - you all rock! You definitely have me thinking and planning, versus wallowing in the depths of despair.

 

[JewelFreak]

Good thoughts, Pinto. One other suggestion: take your anniversary off. Simply say you can't come in that day. Period. No negotiation, let any rants slide off you. What is this knucklehead gonna do, fire you? It's something you need more than whatever you'd get from going in that day. I bet it will feel like you've had a vacation!

--- Laurie

 

[LibbyLA]

anal retentive, control freaky energy

Think of that in a more positive light. Detail-oriented, detail-oriented....

That's not necessarily a bad thing, but you do have to learn how to let go. If you're like me, your "good enough" is better than most people's "best they can do." It's a blessing and a curse.

liz

 

[NovemberBride]

Pinto,

I am sorry that you are stuck in such a horrible position. I wanted to add one thought here that I haven't seen addressed. Although you and your DH may be ok financially if you quit without another job lined up, you should consider the effect it could have on your career. You seem to be very driven and take a lot of pride in your work and you have obviously spent many years in school to get where you are today. By leaving this job without another lined up, you may be significantly reducing your future opportunities. A lot of companies flat out do not interview candidates who are unemployed, and in this economy, they don't have to as there are plenty of other prospects. If I were you I would spend the next couple of weeks job searching so that you can hopefully have another position lined up when you give notice.

 

[PintoBean]

Good thoughts, Pinto. One other suggestion: take your anniversary off. Simply say you can't come in that day. Period. No negotiation, let any rants slide off you. What is this knucklehead gonna do, fire you? It's something you need more than whatever you'd get from going in that day. I bet it will feel like you've had a vacation!

--- Laurie

You're absolutely right, Laurie! And - my anniversary falls on LABOR DAY this year. Even if I have a ton of work to do, I'm going to force this day off because I do need days to decompress and recharge.

by LibbyLA » 23 Aug 2013 04:40
PintoBean|1377229113|3508462 wrote:anal retentive, control freaky energyThink of that in a more positive light. Detail-oriented, detail-oriented....That's not necessarily a bad thing, but you do have to learn how to let go. If you're like me, your "good enough" is better than most people's "best they can do." It's a blessing and a curse.liz

I think you nailed it Liz - it is truly a blessing and a curse. My boss told us to let things slide, even though she knows that we are perfectionists. The whole witch-boss who would take the slipping and throw me under the bus with it aside, I don't feel good when I don't feel like I've given 110%!

Pinto,

I am sorry that you are stuck in such a horrible position. I wanted to add one thought here that I haven't seen addressed. Although you and your DH may be ok financially if you quit without another job lined up, you should consider the effect it could have on your career. You seem to be very driven and take a lot of pride in your work and you have obviously spent many years in school to get where you are today. By leaving this job without another lined up, you may be significantly reducing your future opportunities. A lot of companies flat out do not interview candidates who are unemployed, and in this economy, they don't have to as there are plenty of other prospects. If I were you I would spend the next couple of weeks job searching so that you can hopefully have another position lined up when you give notice.

NovemberBride - thank you so much for your input. As much as I try to downplay it at times, I AM driven and do take a lot of pride in my work. I know that when I have interviewed candidates, I am looked at work timelines and questioned gaps of unemployment. I am going to try my best to focus my energies on the positives in my life in order to take the stress level down so that I am not so overwhelmed at work, and can hang in there until I have a job offer in hand!

 

[anne_h]

I didn't read the whole thread but two ideas came to mind:

1. Have you tried talking to her? To see if you can make things better. I generally am a big fan of trying this as step one. I know it can be really tough. I've been there.

2. Is there anything going on with the company where you could get yourself laid off (not fired for cause, but laid off). That way, they have to pay you some type of severance. Meanwhile, start your job search. When you find something great, give notice. If you get laid off before then, great, collect your severance as a nice parting gift and continue your job search regardless.

Anne

 

[pregcurious]

I haven't read all the posts, but i would say look for a new job ASAP, and give 1 month's notice not to burn bridges. I find that bad bosses usually don't know that they're bad, and they take it very personally (because they are not professional) when you leave.

Don't tell _anyone_ at your new job that you are even looking.

 

[PintoBean]

I didn't read the whole thread but two ideas came to mind:

1. Have you tried talking to her? To see if you can make things better. I generally am a big fan of trying this as step one. I know it can be really tough. I've been there.

2. Is there anything going on with the company where you could get yourself laid off (not fired for cause, but laid off). That way, they have to pay you some type of severance. Meanwhile, start your job search. When you find something great, give notice. If you get laid off before then, great, collect your severance as a nice parting gift and continue your job search regardless.

Anne

Hi Anne - talking would be the logical thing, but I've learned from our one on one meetings to keeping communications to a minimal with my boss. It's like giving her ammo for later. The other bosses that cycled through my department were great when it came to talking things through... As for getting laid off, my department is understaffed, so it wouldn't happen readily.


Hi Pregcurious - thank you for the feedback!

My phone interview on Monday - it didn't happen - lol. I saw the comments on glassdoor.com regarding the interviews conducted by this company and my expectations were rather low. I was excited to practice interviewing, though! The HR associate called me 18 minutes late, no courtesy e-mail! I asked to reschedule to later that day, she said sure, no callback. Phew! At least the "luxury" of being currently employed is that I can be more selective with the job hunt, I guess...

My next plan of action is to comb my links on linkedin for any recruiter links, and reach out to them. Also, a friend is assisting me in the process of getting a professional certification - he generously waived the "course" fee for me because of his partnership with a cert. school. AWESOME - saves me at least $500!! I have a meeting lined up with my professional mentor outside of the company in two weeks. She is amazing, and usually gives me good advice. As for work...It just stinks walking into work and feeling the life drain out of you - lol! Hoping, praying that the job offer I'm being told should be coming through DOES materialize, and sooner rather than later!

 

[PintoBean]

update

I'm starting the next chapter of my professional journey tomorrow!!! First day of work with a NEW employer!

Hugs to everyone for being so supportive!

 

[Dee*Jay]

Pinto, that's AWESOME! I wish you the best in your new career adventure!

 

[Indylady]

Wow--congrats!! I'm so happy for you!

 

[KristinTech]

Re: update

I'm starting the next chapter of my professional journey tomorrow!!! First day of work with a NEW employer!

Hugs to everyone for being so supportive!

Wow, congratulations! I was just reading through this thread and am so happy to hear that you're out of that old situation. So did you end up being able to celebrate that first anniversary properly?

 

[Matata]

Awesome news! Best wishes for success in your new job.

 

[rubyshoes]

Congratulations PintoBean. I wish you all the very best. You will do great

 

[Natylad]

Great news I wish you all the best!!!

 

[minousbijoux]

Well don't leave us hanging! Don't we get the details?!! Oh, and mountains of dust for great supervisors.

 

[PintoBean]

Thank you Dee*Jay, IndyLady, KristinTech, Matata, RubyShoes, Natylad!

Well don't leave us hanging! Don't we get the details?!! Oh, and mountains of dust for great supervisors.

Well, about a month ago, my boss said something that was the last straw for me. It was just so stupid inappropriate. I was at my breaking point - I thought to myself, I can leave now on good terms, or in handcuffs for going apesh!t on her dumb arse!

I was already carefully saving for a "rainy day". So I gave my 2 weeks notice the next day. My boss and I talked on the phone, and she asked for 3 weeks, which I agreed to. The idiot actually asked me, "I don't mean to pry, but is it your health?" That definitely confirmed that I had made the right decision.

At that point, I was expecting to hear an update for a job I applied for a while back in a matter of weeks. It's amazing, but sure enough the stars were aligning! The night before I gave notice, a contact let me know that I should be hearing in a matter of DAYS! Make it the SAME DAY I give notice, I get a v-mail from my now boss asking to discuss salary! WEee....!!!

I know that within the past 6 months, when people gave notice, they were walked out that same day, but I still had some projects to complete, and my group is very small... The amazing part was that upper management met with me and they all offered me the opportunity to move to ANY department/group I wanted in the company! The big boss didn't get why I would want to leave because his philosophy was that bad bosses eventually get booted so you should stick it out. LOL! But he did mention that his kids have a different philosophy about work/life balance, which he admittedly doesn't understand...

Like I mentioned above, I had 3 projects to complete and/or transition to a colleague. I guess I was more efficient than they anticipated. A week and a half after I gave notice, I was walked out. BUT this is where it gets even more GOOD ridiculous... 30 minutes before I got walked out, I returned from lunch and checked my personal e-mail. And guess what was in my inbox? MY OFFER! It was bittersweet leaving without saying goodbye to everyone. I also had a few lunches planned for the following week, too - boo! BUT, it was totally meant to be!

I was shellshocked the first two days home. But I quickly adapted to lazy mornings in bed with tv . I was still getting paid for the days I wasn't working which was a huge plus! My friends still had the lunches for me.

So far, everyone is SO nice at the new company. I think I have a bit of PTSD from my last job - lol... My new boss seems kind, intelligent, and sincere. Did I mention, my new job is ALSO REMOTE!!! I couldn't believe that my boss spent an hour and 38 minutes on the phone with me on Monday explaining the docs she had emailed me and gave a general briefing of some of the processes, even though it was her day off. It's awesome having a boss who actually KNOWS what she's doing! It just feels almost too good to be true right now!