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Should I ? 2.50 G SI1 XXX

tigertales

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 8, 2015
Messages
371
Looking at this diamond. It's beautiful, but I have some concerns about the numbers. I know it's got that 41% pavilion angle thing going on. Is that always an issue? What should I expect performance wise? Any concerns about light leakage under the table?

Here are the stats:
G SI 1 GIA XXX
Table 58%
Depth 62.9%
Crown angle 35.5%
Pavilion angle 41.2%
Thin to medium girdle.
no culet
no fluorescence


Also, it's Hearts and Arrows. So, I suppose it's a sacrifice in brilliance for the novelty of the cut. ( They say, anyway...maybe I'm wrong).
Thanks!
 

doberman

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
1,503
I have never seen a true hearts and arrows stone without an AGS report. That may be just the luck of the draw, but I wouldn't want to pay a premium for HnA wuthout an AGS report.

And no, you don't sacrifice briliance at all, which is the point of the cut - to maximize it. But that's why I'd want an AGS repoort detailing light performance.
 

jp201845

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
270
Looking at this diamond. It's beautiful, but I have some concerns about the numbers. I know it's got that 41% pavilion angle thing going on. Is that always an issue? What should I expect performance wise? Any concerns about light leakage under the table?

Here are the stats:
G SI 1 GIA XXX
Table 58%
Depth 62.9%
Crown angle 35.5%
Pavilion angle 41.2%
Thin to medium girdle.
no culet
no fluorescence


Also, it's Hearts and Arrows. So, I suppose it's a sacrifice in brilliance for the novelty of the cut. ( They say, anyway...maybe I'm wrong).
Thanks!
Crown Angle and Pavillion Angle are not complimentary to each other and probably have light leakage. Add a 62.9 depth which is way too deep. That is why you have an HCA score of 4.7 @ Wewechew I would pass.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
21,168
It is absolutely not a H&A diamond... the HCA is 4.7.
H&A has to do with the optical symmetry. You can have an H&A without ideal angles.

OP...you have the angles marked in percent. Angles should be in degrees. Table and depth should be in percent.
 

LightBright

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Messages
612
Crown Angle and Pavillion Angle are not complimentary to each other and probably have light leakage. Add a 62.9 depth which is way too deep. That is why you have an HCA score of 4.7 @ Wewechew I would pass.
In addition to angles not being complementary for optimal light performance, both angles are steeper than optimal (a steep deep stone). Plus deeper than normal depth means this diamond’s cut is storing carat weight top to bottom, so diameter is likely smaller than a well cut 2.5. There could also be painting or digging going on to reach that magic carat weight (from the ASET, it looks like it).

You will be paying the premium for a 2.5 carat diamond but not seeing that translate into diameter size.
 

Wewechew

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Messages
1,968
H&A has to do with the optical symmetry. You can have an H&A without ideal angles.

OP...you have the angles marked in percent. Angles should be in degrees. Table and depth should be in percent.
Very true the H&A have to do with symmetry... I guess we use H&A so interchangeably with "ideal cut" I spoke incorrectly.
 

Wewechew

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Messages
1,968
Thanks! I wanted to trade up with WhiteFlash, but have to work with my jeweler from whom I purchased the original 2.21. I wish White flash would accept other diamonds for trade! Wah!
Why don't you try to sell your original diamond yourself? You would end up getting more for it than you would trading it in.
 

tigertales

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 8, 2015
Messages
371
In addition to angles not being complementary for optimal light performance, both angles are steeper than optimal (a steep deep stone). Plus deeper than normal depth means this diamond’s cut is storing carat weight top to bottom, so diameter is likely smaller than a well cut 2.5. There could also be painting or digging going on to reach that magic carat weight (from the ASET, it looks like it).

You will be paying the premium for a 2.5 carat diamond but not seeing that translate into diameter size.
Oh, sorry about that! I forgot to include the measurements, and yes, angles, not percentages on crown and pavilion.
so, the 2.5 measures 8.63 x 8.57 x 5.41
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
21,168
In addition to angles not being complementary for optimal light performance, both angles are steeper than optimal (a steep deep stone). Plus deeper than normal depth means this diamond’s cut is storing carat weight top to bottom, so diameter is likely smaller than a well cut 2.5. There could also be painting or digging going on to reach that magic carat weight (from the ASET, it looks like it).

You will be paying the premium for a 2.5 carat diamond but not seeing that translate into diameter size.
What Aset?
 

tigertales

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 8, 2015
Messages
371
Steep and deep is right. I said that to the jeweler and he said, well, cuts preferences change all the time...blah blah blah.

really pretty rock, though, surprisingly.
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,247
Based on the rounded measurements and assuming virtually picture perfect optical symmetry these are the likely results. It could have a Hearts pattern with clefts but ASET and IS show extraneous leakage under the table.

ASET.jpg
HA.jpg HEARTS.jpg IS.jpg
 

tigertales

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 8, 2015
Messages
371
Oh Hi Jonathan! Thanks for that! You are 100% correct about light leakage under the table. In certain lights it's very apparent, in others, doesn't show at all. But, yes, that, I would say is the flaw I first noticed, and amazing you caught it to a technical "T".

I was just studying your YT video on this related subject of hearts and arrows variations...mine seems to fall into the first category ( on a good day) :

 
Last edited:

tigertales

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 8, 2015
Messages
371
I know. My original engagement ring is an early round brilliant and is deep and flat. It’s still a beautiful stone though.
My original little engagement ring...gads....47 points! was so beautiful people would cross the room to see it. And guess what, after all these years, and now that I know more, it turns out it was a J VS2or SI1, and the cut...oh hells no...the table was slanted, not even level, it was deep, and the girdle was brutted and feathered. So go figure!
I loved it. HE picked it out, and that's all I cared about.
 

LightBright

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Messages
612
My original little engagement ring...gads....47 points! was so beautiful people would cross the room to see it. And guess what, after all these years, and now that I know more, it turns out it was a J VS2or SI1, and the cut...oh hells no...the table was slanted, not even level, it was deep, and the girdle was brutted and feathered. So go figure!
I loved it. HE picked it out, and that's all I cared about.
It was probably an antique cut (slanted table, deep with bruted feathered girdle). They can be amazing!
 

tigertales

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 8, 2015
Messages
371
I know this is unrelated in a way, but I'd love to start a thread featuring pics and info of "Beautiful diamonds that fall outside the Ideal" I'm pretty new here, so don't know if there's already been a post like this...what do you think?
 

foxinsox

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
2,918
My original little engagement ring...gads....47 points! was so beautiful people would cross the room to see it. And guess what, after all these years, and now that I know more, it turns out it was a J VS2or SI1, and the cut...oh hells no...the table was slanted, not even level, it was deep, and the girdle was brutted and feathered. So go figure!
I loved it. HE picked it out, and that's all I cared about.
I feel you need to post a few picture of this pretty please!
 

Karl_K

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
8,701
I have never seen a true hearts and arrows stone without an AGS report. That may be just the luck of the draw, but I wouldn't want to pay a premium for HnA wuthout an AGS report.

And no, you don't sacrifice briliance at all, which is the point of the cut - to maximize it. But that's why I'd want an AGS repoort detailing light performance.
Who did the lab report has nothing to do with being h&a.
My wifey's diamond is graded by GIA and has the nicest looking h&a images.
It just happens that a lot of the h&a dealers but not all on PS also use AGSL lab reports with them.
 
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