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Sholdt semi bezel and OMC/OEC?

CrisM

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Messages
153
I love the simplicity and modernity of the setting but have a couple of questions about the suitability of these older cuts as the center stone:

1) I read recently that they can sometimes have thin girdles and perhaps require a full bezel to protect them. Would this semi bezel design be good enough or are prongs / full bezels best?

2) OMCs and OECs seem to have lower colors than the more modern cuts. Would a white metal setting contrast too much with an off white color grade? Would a yellow gold setting therefore be best? I'm not at all opposed, I may in fact prefer YG but wonder what are your opinions?

3) I'm a size 6 and pehaps 1.25 ct seems ideal for finger coverage (?). I wonder how wide the band would be (mm?) at the edges of the stone? If the stone is say 6.9 mm, the band on either side of it would come to perhaps 4mm or do you think wider?

4) And somewhat off topic: what about a color sapphire center? I saw a photo-shopped version on PS but wonder if anyone has any real life examples?

Clearly, I am not as educated as I would like on the subject. Am glad to have such an informative and friendly place to turn to for help!
 

ame

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 7, 2004
Messages
10,763
Do you already own the stone or are you still researching to select? You can buy a new old-style cut these days and find a slightly higher color, and old cuts do still come in higher colors.

Personally I LOVE the Sholdt semi bezels and fremont solitaires. I almost got one for my stone which is 1.15, and about 6.8mm. Ellechris I believe has one of the semibezels and a larger stone than 7mm and I think it does look amazing. I don't know though how wide it is on top.
 

RobertLejman_ISA_GG

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Messages
13
Older cut diamonds definitely come in whiter colors. Just because it is an older cut doesn't mean you can't get a whiter stone.The cut is what it is because of the age of the stone. If all older cuts had color, then what happened to all the whilte diamonds that were mined back then? Logically, white, older cut diamonds do exist. Older cuts only exhibit more color than a similar color modern cut due to the fact that many are deeper in proportions, and therefore shoe more body color.
 

CrisM

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Messages
153
Ame - Still looking. I do think I've narrowed down wanting the engagement ring to be a diamond in the semi bezel Sholdt. The setting has as much weight in deciding on a ring as the stone. Does that make sense? I tend to lean towards minimal settings, without pave, halo and the like, although there are some beautiful examples of these on PS. So although I originally wanted a colored stone in a fancy shape, I keep coming back to the Sholdt. And that setting, at least for me, keeps calling for a round center. As to the kind of round, the pillowy crowns and chunky facets appeal to me more than the modern rounds. However, do these older cuts face up a little smaller than a modern round since they're deeper, is that right? Please correct me if not, I'm very much on a learning curve. And I guess I would just have to choose a stone, regardless of the kind of cut, with the right kind of girdle (not too thin?) for the setting.

Looking4ring - that is great tip, thanks! If you'll forgive the newbie question, what exactly is an August Vintage cut? I imagine it's proprietary to GOG, but haven't been able to figure out what are its defining characteristics.

RobertLejman - thanks, that does makes sense, of course. Interesting fact about the relationship to the appearance of the body due to a deeper construction - also logical. I wonder if PSers in general prefer the lower color grades for OEC/OMCs? I seem to find many more examples of them than D-H ranges. Are the whiter colors, though available, harder to find / rare?
 

looking4ring

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 27, 2011
Messages
19
Yeah my understanding is that the August Vintage is a branded OEC cut to maximize light performance. There are several videos of these on the Good Old Gold youtube site. Some people prefer having "ideal" light performance in an OEC, while others prefer the proportions of OECs that were not specifically cut to maximize light performance. The videos will probably help you decide which you prefer, I'd say it's worth a look.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
21,122
The Sholdt semi bezel is such a modern, sleek design, all parallel lines and precise curves.. it would be in glaring contrast to the older stone patterning style, which is charmingly inexact and imperfect.

I definitely think the GOG precision-cut AVR is the way to go if you want the look of an older stone not to look out of place next to the setting - you'll get the older style chunky patterning without the wonks and kooks in faceting structure.
 

LGK

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
2,975
RobertLejman_ISA_GG|1316010460|3017295 said:
Older cut diamonds definitely come in whiter colors. Just because it is an older cut doesn't mean you can't get a whiter stone.The cut is what it is because of the age of the stone. If all older cuts had color, then what happened to all the whilte diamonds that were mined back then? Logically, white, older cut diamonds do exist. Older cuts only exhibit more color than a similar color modern cut due to the fact that many are deeper in proportions, and therefore shoe more body color.
Actually, most were either recut or simply didn't exist. It also seems like the majority of the OEC-era diamonds (so like 1900-1920ish) was from a mine which produced lower color, higher clarity. You definitely see way, way more transitional cut diamonds with high color, so I strongly suspect that honestly, there simply were not that many high color OECs... ever. Even back then. Frankly the high color ones can command a premium over even a RB, because they are definitely in demand and also in short supply.

Anyway- yes, lots and lots of antique diamonds have razor thin girdles- that was the "ideal cut" girdle back in the day. And yes, personally I prefer to protect those thin girdles from my klutziness :rolleyes: I would find the diamond first, examine the girdle and decide if the semi-bezel protects it enough. It might- most OECs have a few areas of x-thin girdle (that is, it's literally a razor edge) and more of the girdle is just thin with a very small edge. So if you're lucky you might be able to fit the thinnest bits under a semi bezel. Just depends on the diamond, unfortunately.

ETA- and oddly, and against all common sense- if an OEC is well cut, often they face up very, very white for their actual color grade. Why? Not really sure, could be the large virtual facet size creates the illusion, but a lot of vendors of old cuts mention that it is remarkably common, and it corresponds with my observations too.

(Sorry Robert, I guess I'm feeling contrary today- don't mean to pick on ya though! :bigsmile: )
 

RobertLejman_ISA_GG

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Messages
13
Hi LGK,
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I've seen my fair share of both OEC & OMC over a 25 year career to stick with my original opinion. But you are definitely entitled to yours. :mrgreen:
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
I like the contrast of the older faceting with the sleekness of the sholdt. Depending on the color of you actual diamond maybe you can ask if they will do unplated white gold?
 

Echidna

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 26, 2009
Messages
723
CrisM|1315835645|3015715 said:
I love the simplicity and modernity of the setting but have a couple of questions about the suitability of these older cuts as the center stone:

1) I read recently that they can sometimes have thin girdles and perhaps require a full bezel to protect them. Would this semi bezel design be good enough or are prongs / full bezels best?

3) I'm a size 6 and pehaps 1.25 ct seems ideal for finger coverage (?). I wonder how wide the band would be (mm?) at the edges of the stone? If the stone is say 6.9 mm, the band on either side of it would come to perhaps 4mm or do you think wider?
Chris, hopefully I can help you out a bit. I set my 1.232ct RB in the Sholdt semi-bezel. Here are my thoughts:

1) I do bash around my ring much more often that I thought I would, so I think the girdle exposure is a smart concern to have. The semi-bezel is not as safe as a full bezel (obviously) but it's certainly not bad. If you love the setting, then take the risk!

3) I'm a size 4.75. My stone is an ideal cut 6.94mm (but a 1.25ct OEC might not face up as large). For this stone, my semi-bezel is 5.50mm and tapers to a 2.40mm band (according to my valuation). Pictures are here for you if that helps.

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...i-bezel-with-1-23ct-bgd-signature-h-a.139091/

I will say that I think this setting makes the stone look large and I've had endless compliments on it. Good luck deciding!
 

CrisM

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Messages
153
Echidna, thank you sharing your link! I especially loved the profile and side shots, just gorgeous. Very open design, minimal, elegant! And I love how the crown just pillows above the setting in the side shot. I know a higher crown in the OEC/OMC sacrifices the "face up" size, but I am a sucker for these older facet patterns. I want to want a modern brilliant or even an H&A but my heart doesn't sing when I see them loose.

It seems yours, Heyeliza and Elle-Chris' Sholdts all have round brilliant centers and the combination is just beautiful. Yssie makes a good point - maybe the sleekness of the setting begs a modern cut. I haven't come across any Sholdts bezels on PS at least with anything other than a modern brilliant center. Hmmm.

Gypsy - can you explain further how unplated white gold helps with the stone color? Would it cause the stone to be less bright or is this an unfounded concern?

In terms of searching for an OEC/OMC or even transitional cut in a whiter color range, is there a vendor who specializes in these? Or should I just go to Good Old Gold - I'm in NYC.
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
CrisM|1316183837|3018810 said:
Echidna, thank you sharing your link! I especially loved the profile and side shots, just gorgeous. Very open design, minimal, elegant! And I love how the crown just pillows above the setting in the side shot. I know a higher crown in the OEC/OMC sacrifices the "face up" size, but I am a sucker for these older facet patterns. I want to want a modern brilliant or even an H&A but my heart doesn't sing when I see them loose.

It seems yours, Heyeliza and Elle-Chris' Sholdts all have round brilliant centers and the combination is just beautiful. Yssie makes a good point - maybe the sleekness of the setting begs a modern cut. I haven't come across any Sholdts bezels on PS at least with anything other than a modern brilliant center. Hmmm.

Gypsy - can you explain further how unplated white gold helps with the stone color? Would it cause the stone to be less bright or is this an unfounded concern?

In terms of searching for an OEC/OMC or even transitional cut in a whiter color range, is there a vendor who specializes in these? Or should I just go to Good Old Gold - I'm in NYC.
I am not sure if any vendors specialize in whiter OEC/OMCs but you might want to call Singlestone and Jewels by Erica Grace.

unplated white gold is less 'white' so could be a better match for a lower color diamond. the brightness of the stone will not be affected, just the contrast between stone color and setting color.
 
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