sexual harrassment- Ladies?

[decodelighted]

I got to thinking about this more last night & here's a hopefully helpful primer for p-scope men or lurkers who work with women and sometimes have to communicate whether something looks "good" on them. The following terms are:

PROFESSIONAL
figure
physique
form
curves

INAPPROPRIATE
boobs
rack
booty
your sexy body

BEYOND WRONG
anything starting with "t" and ending in "s"
anything starting with "j" and ending in "s"
any 2-part word where the last part is "bags"
refering to your mom and/or what she "gave you"

I wouldn't want a shoe-fetishist putting pumps on me at a department store either!

 

[crowmama]

style="WIDTH: 99%; HEIGHT: 397px">Date: 12/14/2006 11:44:35 AM
Author: anchor31

Date: 12/14/2006 11:06:35 AM
Author: crowmama
After reading the whole thread, some comments...

1) sexual harassment has to include a couple of factors, legally, such as the harasser has power over the victim''s employment conditions, etc. I technically don''t think it was sexual harrassment

2) the guy was definately creepy and an a-hole. CaptAubrey is right on, and I''m certain he''s done it before and will continue to do it. Management would want to know about it for the purposes of avoiding litigation and losing business

Some people (both men and women) forget their social graces or don''t employ social filters. This guy I think is simply a clumbsy ape -- can he be taught, retrained, reformed? Also, this guy is just one employee -- maybe that''s the work environment there, where they are so used to crossing the line they forget there''s a line?

I''d write a letter, including all the details, including identifying the specific employee. I would also ask in the letter that the employee write you an apology, and not the manager. This forces the employee to deal with what he did, and maybe it''ll be enough to get him to watch his mouth?

Awkward situation... you were not crazy to feel violated in some sort of manner, and you do have a right to take some action. Good luck and let us know what you decide to do.

I disagree. If a male friend started constantly insisting to have sex with you/asking you for sexual favours/making sexual orientated comments and wouldn''t stop no matter how you say no, and you can''t just avoid him (at school/work/neighbour/whatever), would you say that''s not harrassment just because this (former) friend doesn''t have any power over your employment condition? Repeated unwanted sexual orientated comments or requests are harrassment, no matter the circumstances.

I personally wouldn''t care if the guy lost his job. If he wants to keep it he should learn to be respectful towards women. I don''t really have any kind of sympathy towards this type of guy.

Anchor, I''m not saying she wasn''t treated with disrespect or harassed (small "h"), I''m saying from my understanding of legal definitions (I''m not a lawyer, but I am a union shop steward and deal with situations in the workplace) that what happened does not necessary equal sexual harassment (Big "S", Big "H"). Someone with more legal experience can write further on this if they choose...

When trying to bring action upon someone (be it discipline, termination, or whatever) the law can be very specific in differetiating between someone violating the law, and someone merely being an a-hole. Unfortunately, people in this country still have the right to be an a-hole...

When we feel violated (as a man or woman, and by a man or woman) we need to take action in order to get over it, and move on. Writing the letter is a tool to help the victim move on, but it also is a document to the event. Maybe this guy is on strike two, and the letter will put him in strike three and out the door. Or, maybe it''s strike one and he won''t get to a strike two.

I was merely trying to support the OP and add options... I did not mean to rankle anyone.

 

[anchor31]

I''m not angry, don''t worry. I was just pointing out that I disagree with the definition of harrassment you gave. But I may have come across as angry, because it is a sensitive subject for me. Sorry. I do understand your intentions; like the rest of us, you want to support the OP in her situation.

 

[Mara]

Date: 12/14/2006 11:59:19 AM
Author: decodelighted
I got to thinking about this more last night & here's a hopefully helpful primer for p-scope men or lurkers who work with women and sometimes have to communicate whether something looks 'good' on them. The following terms are:

PROFESSIONAL
figure
physique
form
curves

INAPPROPRIATE
boobs
rack
booty
your sexy body

BEYOND WRONG
anything starting with 't' and ending in 's'
anything starting with 'j' and ending in 's'
any 2-part word where the last part is 'bags'
refering to your mom and/or what she 'gave you'

I wouldn't want a shoe-fetishist putting pumps on me at a department store either!

actually deco, personally i don't want any coworker or random man commenting on my CURVES or my PHYSIQUE. i mean on one hand i could see how this guy possibly felt like it could be okay to be commenting on OP's bod as she was trying on form-fitting items and maybe he just flat out thought she wanted commentary. i personally would not have been upset about what it sounded like he said. but if a coworker was like 'hey those jeans really show off your curves'..i'd be like okay WHY are you checking out my curves, pervo? actually i'd probably say that. hehehe.

so really, what is appropriate to me is SO personal. obviously saying RACK vs curves or whatever could be debated, but for me curves is still one comment too many in a professional environment.

here's a question, if this guy was like really over the top overly 'gay' and he was commenting on the wetsuit and saying things like 'oh girl you can work that thing!' then would you still be offended? that is what i mean about it being really personal as to what people get upset or offended about. and it's really hard for anyone else to GAUGE what someone's personal comfort level is. which is why i really believe that people need to SPEAK UP and not feel victimized because what happens is what is happening now. after the fact, OP is questioning herself, and him and his potential motives, and not sure what to do about reporting or not reporting or even sure how she should be feeling, when if she had just stepped up when it was happening, and been like 'look buddy, stop checking me out, you are totally weirding me out'...i think this convo wouldn't even be happening. he would have said 'omg im so sorry i didn't mean to' OR the complete opposite 'well hey you are trying on a hot piece of clothing there yanno' and shown his 'true colors' and she would have known right then what to do aka be reassured it was nothing OR know flat out to report him. it's this 'well i'm not sure' and all this discussion that people are giving her, and you should or shouldn't report him that is influencing.

personally i think if nothing happened there at the time with her speaking up, then bringing it up now is just too questionable. it's not about 'feeling bad' if this guy loses his job, it's about...okay what was really going on? and it's QUESTIONABLE. and just like a judge or jury, i'd be hesitant to throw the book at the dude and possibly get him fired because it was obvious the OP was unsure if he was even being a pervo or what. it's not like he flat out GRABBED her butt and said 'you are a hot little thing'...which is NOT questionable. haha. that's action. anyway just my two cents. i think that in today's age people are SOO hypersensitive about what is harassment vs not and it's kind of unfortunate.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 12/14/2006 1:17:40 PM
Author: Mara

Date: 12/14/2006 11:59:19 AM
Author: decodelighted
I got to thinking about this more last night & here''s a hopefully helpful primer for p-scope men or lurkers who work with women and sometimes have to communicate whether something looks ''good'' on them

actually deco, personally i don''t want any coworker or random man commenting on my CURVES or my PHYSIQUE. .

Key words "have to" ... what I meant was ... if it''s part of a man''s "job description" to communicate his own thoughts about a woman''s appearance or who may be asked to comment by the woman herself.... i.e. Personal Trainer, Tailor, Judge on America''s Top Model

, Hiring Manager at Hooters

, Plastic Surgeon, Photographer ..etc etc... as well as, the oddly specific job of Scuba Suit Salesmen.

I def DIDN''T mean that random co-workers should be offering commentary on how people of the opposite sex (or same sex really) look.

 

[mtrb]

People communicate differently. I personally am a very sexual person in nature, so I am not easily offended. If this person was told that he was making you feel uncomfortable and he continued.. then in my definition it would be sexual harassment otherwise it was just his crazy way of flirting. Please don't ruin this guy if you did not make your feelings known.

Men are hard wired to be men by nature and there is nothing wrong with human nature or the way men think. I am not ashamed by what flies though my mind and most men's heads when we meet a woman..because that is our nature. We just cannot indulge due to social boundaries because it would be inappropriate.. I will not elaborate further, but for all the men out there.. you know what I mean. However, if boundaries were crossed verbally, and you were uncomfortable please let it be known. Social boundaries must be set before it should be labeled harassment.

 

[mia15]

MTRB, I''m interested in your comment about social boundaries.
In this situation, how would you feel if this was said to your girlfriend? Would you feel she was harrassed?

All the views are very interesting. My feeling that she was made uncomfortable, and shouldn''t have to deal with that level of intrusion.
I mean, we''re talking about harrassment, not attempted molestation or rape. If the guy made her feel harrassed, why not report his inappropriate behavior? Obviously wording is important, and I wouldn''t necessarily accuse of hitting on her, but that guy seems to have some serious boundary issues.

 

[Mara]

See this is where it''s UNCLEAR to me. Sure she felt uncomfortable and no she shouldn''t feel like that. But was it him making her uncomfortable or herself making herself uncomfortable. It''s kind of like when Greg says something to me in a tone of voice I don''t like. Is he really giving me attitude or am I giving HIM the feeling of giving me attitude. Like part of it is my own mind-set when he says something to me. She even said that in other situations she would not have ebeen bothered but for some reason THERE she was and felt like she couldn''t speak up. Maybe the mindset for her at that moment in time was just really offended by whatever he was saying.

That''s why it''s tough for me to be like ''wow he''s an dumbass, you should report him''. Because it''s all just so vague. The only thing not vague is that she felt uncomfortable. Motives to me are important. Whereas something like a butt grab cannot be miscontrued. Lowered voice, comment on physique while in an item he is selling her...well maybe he''s just trying to sell the wetsuit and tell her in a clumsy way that she looks awesome in it. I mean who knows, maybe she could tell his boss and he''d be like hello lady you were buying a wetsuit. Who really knows.

Which is why for me, by not speaking up and then later second-guessing how she felt at the time...kind of makes it all a moot point. Sure she could still call and complain of course. But it might have been more effective for her if at the time she told the guy that he was making her feel uncomfortable. Anyway...just another perspective. As a female of course I feel no woman should ever feel like she is being harassed or threatened but it''s so hard to know many times what the other person is thinking, and then when you are in a situation like she was..trying on a form-fitting suit and letting the guy help her and saying she was looking for his advice on how it looked because he was the salesperson...well I think the lines are seriously muddy at that point.

 

[mia15]

Mara I agree with you on almost everything. I know I definitely would have confronted that guy, but some people just aren''t as confrontational and I worry about them never saying anything, or having to be grabbed before they actually speak up.

I think the issue I start to disagree on is the one of motive. This is because many people with a history of sexually harassing people (from verbal to rape) have trouble clarifying or understanding their own motives. This comes out all the time in cases. It''s amazing what some people consider a "compliment" with the best motives. Some of the times you can actually see that they truly believe what they''re saying. Also, many people with truly bad motives will not do a thing and then act out. It seems like a good preventative measure to express discomfort if felt.

That guy should have been trained to begin with, in my opinion, on what constitutes appropriate behavior.

The workplace has many dynamics and sexual harassment in the workplace can be harder to define. But among people who are barely acquainted, it just seems so dodgy to be that intimate. I suppose my personal opinion is that the more people talk about and define that issue, the better.

 

[Mara]

oh i totally agree emerald...to me all of these lines are sooooo blurry. one person's compliment is another person's harassment. i mean i personally HATE when guys catcall and whistle. and obviously THEY think it's complimentary! i doubt they think they are being jerks. they think 'oh she's going to be flattered'...and i am thinking 'okay buddy how is THAT flattering? you are hanging out the car hollering at me?'. but i'm like whatever. people are wacko. hahaha. that's my reasoning for most of the things that people do.

the bottom line for me is that people should know it's okay to speak up at the time when it's happening! It's their RIGHT to speak up and say hey you are bothering me!!! get lost! but i think when it happens later and it's vague as to what happened then it doesn't hold as much water OR it might have an odd effect like getting the person fired when maybe that's a bit of an extreme reaction...if the person speaks up right away, that could be dealt with IMMEDIATELY or if the person is hugely apologetic then you know...okay they are sorry and seem genuinely shocked. maybe now they will think before doing this next time. it's just so tough to know when it's right to speak to a higher authority in my opinion. especially if you are unsure at the time if anything was really *wrong* and you are questioning yourself later. to me that includes enough 'doubt' to maybe give the person that benefit of the doubt? which is why i personally would take a friend or FI and go back and tell the salesperson how i felt around him. and then gauge it.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 12/14/2006 3:27:37 PM
Author: emeraldlover
My feeling that she was made uncomfortable, and shouldn''t have to deal with that level of intrusion.

My comments below aren''t about THIS case specifically ... but in response to the comment above .. more *generally*.

How can ANYONE know for sure what''s going to make someone ELSE uncomfortable? That''s the "shades of grey" aspect for me. If you pat someone with sunburn it FEELS worse than it would to someone who ISN''T sunburned. Someone who holds body shame or is in a vulnerable situtation or who is even just more shy might react entirely differently to the SAME treatment than someone else.

We all have to "deal with" stuff we don''t like every day. It sux but it''s true! I just read that 1/2 of all NYC women have been "flashed" or man-handled on the subway. Um, yup. Check & check. I''ve even been CHASED through the streets by a guy swinging an "up-skirt" camera in a tote bag ... If I had "a boss" to report it to I would. But sadly there''s not a lot of recourse in public like that unless a cop happens to be BESIDE YOU. Though I applaud the fast-thinking ladies that take cellphone pix of pervs to give to police/the media/ post online as warning.

Mostly I believe - If you want something to stop - it''s a good idea to say "stop it". As that tv baldie says ... you teach people how to treat you. I have a hard time seeing how it''s fair to complain to someone ELSE about behavior that you won''t even give a hint to the PERSON DOING THE BEHAVIOR that it''s even unwelcome - much less making you uncomfortable.

In this specific case - she bought the suit. She voted with her dollars and the vote was in effect "okey-dokey". At least IMO.

 

[Princes]

Oh wow, so many responses.

One thing I may have not stated and prolly should have is that in NO WAY shape or form did I say or do anything that would make him think or feel his comments or type of comments were welcomed. I come into the store dressed in jeans, sneakers, and a zip up fleece. Basicly I was sloppy looking-not dressed in a manor where he could think I was looking for "attention" or dressed in a manor that would welcome his comments.

As much as I think about it and play it over in my mind again, there was never any point during that time where I felt comfortable saying anything to his face. He WAS that intimadating. There is also NO WAY I would go back into the store to confront him. My insticts tell me he''d LAUGH. Again, my perspective and as someone else said, you would have just had to been there. I am a strong independent women who rarely feels backed into a corner and vulnerble. This is just one time in my life I''ll chulk up to exp.

I have decided that I will write a letter to the mngr. It will be brief, state only facts and nothing about sexual harassment. I will state that the comments made were innapropriate and that ALL employees could use a course on propper complements....such as "This fits how its supposed to". lol

Thanks again for the responses and support.

 

[mia15]

Princes, don''t feel bad. A lot of victims wish they''d behaved differently, but it doesn''t mean you don''t deserve to make your opinion known to management. They''re there specifically to deal with these kinds of ussues.
Your lack of assertiveness at the time doesn''t mean he wasn''t creepy and inappropriate. It sounds like you''ve found your solution. Good luck.

 

[CaptAubrey]

Date: 12/14/2006 4:24:28 PM
Author: Princes

I have decided that I will write a letter to the mngr. It will be brief, state only facts and nothing about sexual harassment. I will state that the comments made were innapropriate and that ALL employees could use a course on propper complements....such as ''This fits how its supposed to''. lol

I think this is a wise course of action.

In response to a couple of comments, in case anyone else is making decisions based on this thread, under no circumstances should you ever go back and confront the harasser directly. That may sound reasonable, but in practice it can be very dangerous. Typically, harassers don''t think their behavior is wrong, and when accused can react very badly, and sometimes violently.

I can''t overstress this--don''t do it.

 

[Mara]

Date: 12/14/2006 4:48:45 PM
Author: CaptAubrey

Date: 12/14/2006 4:24:28 PM
Author: Princes

I have decided that I will write a letter to the mngr. It will be brief, state only facts and nothing about sexual harassment. I will state that the comments made were innapropriate and that ALL employees could use a course on propper complements....such as 'This fits how its supposed to'. lol

I think this is a wise course of action.

In response to a couple of comments, in case anyone else is making decisions based on this thread, under no circumstances should you ever go back and confront the harasser directly. That may sound reasonable, but in practice it can be very dangerous. Typically, harassers don't think their behavior is wrong, and when accused can react very badly, and sometimes violently.

I can't overstress this--don't do it.

Well that's why I suggested she take a friend or her fiance with her. Because I *would* do it and I'd be prepared too. If you can confront them while they are doing it, you surely can confront them after the fact. But yes don't go alone especially if you felt intimiated to begin with. But with someone else there AND in the middle of a crowded store or similar, you should feel comfortable enough to speak your mind..I don't know about 'confront' but just being honest about how one feels. I would not advocate against it.

 

[CaptAubrey]

It''s still not something I would recommend.

I think there''s a difference in saying, "Please don''t do that" or "I don''t appreciate comments like that" at the time of the offense--because it flows naturally out of the situation--and making an "event" out of the accusation after the fact, which immediately puts the accused party on the defensive (especially considering that the harasser may assume, after no protests were made at the time, that he did nothing wrong).

I should clarify that I''m speaking here about encounters between strangers, such as what started this thread. In the workplace, between parties who already know each other and have some sort of relationship, the situation would be somewhat different (though that doesn''t change my belief that such behavior should be reported).

 

[Princes]

Thanks again for the replies and I hope that other women in my situation (whether its real serious or not) realize they are not alone. Hopefully if this ever happens to anyone who has read this they''ll react differently than I did and handle the situation upfront instead of stewing over it for days.

BTW, this is not a crowded store. This was my 3rd time stopping by in the last month. Everytime I have been in there I was either the only one or someone was leaving as I came in or left soon after or showed up and left while in the middle of my stay. This was also the first time I had seen this guy.

There was one person who came in at the time I was trying on suits. He looked at some fins and was there all of 10 mins if that. The majority of the time I was alone with TWO GUYS. Perhaps that makes some of you understand why I didn''t feel like saying anything. Sometimes its easier said than done.

 

[Mara]

Princess I think it's important you did what felt right to you, but I think in the future you should feel empowered to say something when you feel uncomfortable around someone. I totally believe in that whole thing. It doesn't have to be confrontational, just honest. And carry mace.

 

[jetmal]

sorry you got put in an uncomfortable situation....I agree his way of talking to you was very inappropriate..he could just be a jerk, not communicating the way he meant, to, etc....

but I do have to ask this......

if you felt so uncomfortable, why in world did you make a purchase there? I would have high tailed it outta there if I was as creeped out as you say you were.

 

[mtrb]

Date: 12/14/2006 3:27:37 PM
Author: emeraldlover
MTRB, I'm interested in your comment about social boundaries.
In this situation, how would you feel if this was said to your girlfriend? Would you feel she was harrassed?

All the views are very interesting. My feeling that she was made uncomfortable, and shouldn't have to deal with that level of intrusion.
I mean, we're talking about harrassment, not attempted molestation or rape. If the guy made her feel harrassed, why not report his inappropriate behavior? Obviously wording is important, and I wouldn't necessarily accuse of hitting on her, but that guy seems to have some serious boundary issues.

I would think he was hitting on her. My sister would have left or told him that he was making her uncomfortable. I think it really depends on the person hearing such things and how comfortable they are with themselves and the people around them.

 

[Olive Oil]

ETA: I posted this before I realized there was a whole second page of replies I didn't read. Sorry if I repeated what others already said!


Sexual Harrasment actually encompasses a lot more than what some people are suggesting here. I teach college students, and we recently had a representative of the university come to class to talk about sexual harrassment. I'm pasting a section from wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_harrassment) that matches a portion of what she said:

Sexual harassment can occur in a variety of circumstances:

The harasser can be anyone, such as a supervisor, a client, a co-worker, a teacher or professor, a student, a friend, or a stranger.

The victim does not have to be the person directly harassed but can be anyone who finds the behavior offensive and is affected by it.

While adverse effects on the victim are common, this does not have to be the case for the behavior to be unlawful.

The victim can be male or female. The harasser can be male or female.

The harasser does not have to be of the opposite sex.

The harasser may be completely unaware that his or her behavior is offensive or constitutes sexual harassment or may be completely unaware that his or her actions could be unlawful.

(Adapted from the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission)



There are a lot of "categories"of sexual harrassers. They guy from the scuba shop falls under:

The Great Gallant: This mostly verbal harassment involves excessive compliments and personal comments that focus on appearance and gender, and are out of place or embarrassing to the recipient. Such comments are sometimes accompanied by leering looks.


I think yes, it was sexual harrassment. I also think a letter that is not too inflammatory sent to the manager is not inappropriate. Describe the events, and simply say that while it may have been unintentional, it made you uncomfortable. You do not want to get the employee fired, but ask the manager to talk to him about what is and is not appropriate interaction with customers.

I also think it is NOT a good idea to go seek this guy out on your own. I myself have found myself in too many escalating situations with people I have given the "benefit of the doubt" to. While he may be harmless, it is also possible his comments are indicative of more dangerous personality traits. I understand that for guys, it must be pretty confusing as to what is and is not appropriate (in a woman's eyes). But I also know that my gut instinct to be wary of a particular man has always ended up being justified as I get to know him better. In this case, I think it is her gut instinct talking.

 

[mtrb]

This sexual harassment video may help us to better understand:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3QOspidd7ko&mode=related&search=

 

[mtrb]

Well folks, funny this subject came up so recently. I was at a Christmas party with my wife on Saturday night. This guy my wife works with was there with his wife and child who were in their hotel room(they were staying at the Inn). My wife was standing under something that looked like mistletoe and he came up to her and told her that someone had to kiss her because she was standing under it. He then actually grabbed her face and forcefully kissed her on the lips as my wife squirmed. By that time his daughter was in the room. I did my best not to knock is F*****ing Teeth out of his mouth. I went over to him and told him his actions were very inappropriate and I led him by the shoulder like a little boy over to my wife to make an immediate apology. I am still severely angry about this, and I have learned there has been other comments made to my wife in the past about the "tops" she wears and just odd compliments. If that is not sexual harassment I don't know what is. How dare he forcefully kiss another man's wife and disrespect her and my family. I was going to take him down in the middle of the restaurant,but my wife held me back and asked me not too.

Today, I am going to call this F-er and set the ground rules for him. I am sooooooo mad.

 

[codex57]

Date: 12/18/2006 10:21:58 AM
Author: mtrb

Well folks, funny this subject came up so recently. I was at a Christmas party with my wife on Saturday night. This guy my wife works with was there with his wife and child who were in their hotel room(they were staying at the Inn). My wife was standing under something that looked like mistletoe and he came up to her and told her that someone had to kiss her because she was standing under it. He then actually grabbed her face and forcefully kissed her on the lips as my wife squirmed. By that time his daughter was in the room. I did my best not to knock is F*****ing Teeth out of his mouth. I went over to him and told him his actions were very inappropriate and I led him by the shoulder like a little boy over to my wife to make an immediate apology. I am still severely angry about this, and I have learned there has been other comments made to my wife in the past about the ''tops'' she wears and just odd compliments. If that is not sexual harassment I don''t know what is. How dare he forcefully kiss another man''s wife and disrespect her and my family. I was going to take him down in the middle of the restaurant,but my wife held me back and asked me not too.

Today, I am going to call this F-er and set the ground rules for him. I am sooooooo mad.

Kissing her on the lips was out of line. Kissing her anywhere is likely over the line as well. The proper "joke" is to grab you and have you kiss her while everyone cheers.

However, what does your wife wear? If she''s getting a bunch of comments on her tops she''s wearing to work, maybe it''s time for a new wardrobe?

 

[mtrb]

Date: 12/18/2006 5:20:47 PM
Author: codex57

Date: 12/18/2006 10:21:58 AM
Author: mtrb

Well folks, funny this subject came up so recently. I was at a Christmas party with my wife on Saturday night. This guy my wife works with was there with his wife and child who were in their hotel room(they were staying at the Inn). My wife was standing under something that looked like mistletoe and he came up to her and told her that someone had to kiss her because she was standing under it. He then actually grabbed her face and forcefully kissed her on the lips as my wife squirmed. By that time his daughter was in the room. I did my best not to knock is F*****ing Teeth out of his mouth. I went over to him and told him his actions were very inappropriate and I led him by the shoulder like a little boy over to my wife to make an immediate apology. I am still severely angry about this, and I have learned there has been other comments made to my wife in the past about the 'tops' she wears and just odd compliments. If that is not sexual harassment I don't know what is. How dare he forcefully kiss another man's wife and disrespect her and my family. I was going to take him down in the middle of the restaurant,but my wife held me back and asked me not too.

Today, I am going to call this F-er and set the ground rules for him. I am sooooooo mad.

Kissing her on the lips was out of line. Kissing her anywhere is likely over the line as well. The proper 'joke' is to grab you and have you kiss her while everyone cheers.

However, what does your wife wear? If she's getting a bunch of comments on her tops she's wearing to work, maybe it's time for a new wardrobe?

Funny..she actually is very conservatively in a young way..she is 28, but is also from europe so naturally very petite, so she looks good in almost everything she wears. I don't know. The pervert is 45 years old and married (second marriage) to a foreign 27 YO.
All I can tell you is this guy is socially awkward, and we thought he was harmless. By the way, I did call and let him know to stay away from my wife, or there would be severe repercussions legally. Tough line to walk not threatening him. Had to really watch what I said. I also called him another few choice words and let him know his wife would find out if this every occured again.

 

[Mara]

frankly, i hate when GUYS say 'well maybe the gal should change her style of dress'...well maybe guys should just keep their *#* traps shut about another woman's clothes? then there'd be no issues. novel idea.

 

[poptart]

Date: 12/18/2006 6:41:59 PM
Author: Mara
frankly, i hate when GUYS say ''well maybe the gal should change her style of dress''...well maybe guys should just keep their *#* traps shut about another woman''s clothes? then there''d be no issues. novel idea.

I agree completely.

*M*

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 12/13/2006 6:20:13 PM
Author: CaptAubrey
Questions of sexual harassment frequently turn not on individual elements but on the big picture.

Each of these elements alone could be innocuous. All together, they are inappropriate and something the manager needs to be made aware of. In particular, the fact that you made your discomfort clear by shutting the door in his face, yet his behavior continued, is quite damning.

If I were the manager or owner of the store, I would want to know about this. If he's doing it to you, he's doing it to other customers. One of them may decide to sue them.

It's not uncommon for men with these kinds of behavior patterns to seek out occupations that give them opportunities for sexual harassment, e.g., watching women try on wet suits.

Ditto.

ETA: And ditto to everything else Capt Aub said. Especially the part about confrontion of strangers.

 

[CrownJewel]

I agree with Deco that there are certain words a salesperson should use to avoid the possibility of sexual harrassment. Some women are comfortable with such frank conversation, but some are not. He didn''t seem to have a very good gauge of your comfort level, so he needs to learn to treat EVERYONE professionally. Phrases like "this fits you well" would certainly suffice. There is no need at all to refer to breasts or six-pack abs or anything of the sort. The smiling and head-to-toe staring sounds very sketchy and just, ick.

He may have been trying to compliment you and sell the suit, but he needs to learn the right way of doing that. Women buying a scuba suit are in a vulnerable, self-conscious situation (even if it''s not a bra and underwear or a bikini) and the salesperson should be trying to put you at ease. I personally would call and report it, in a very very very nice, "here''s a heads up" and "just so you''re aware" kind of way, that this particular salesperson used language that made you uncomfortable although he may not have intended to do so, and he should be more careful about his word choices. This way, you''re not accusing him of sexual harrassment, you''re just saying you were uncomfortable.

I''ve never been harrassed by a salesperson, but I have been harrassed by men before and it just makes me sick to my stomach. Catcalling is annoying, calling me ugly or stupid or a klutz is annoying, but those are random "passing-by on the street" circumstances. Harrassment is harder to get out of and it is really sickening. There may be a legal definition of sexual harrassment, which sets the conditions for suing the guy, but I consider Princes'' situation sexual harrassment anyway.

Princes, I would call the store soon and just let them know. Two years ago, I was involved in a situation at a store (racist comments). I was so angry and just kept debating whether or not to call the store to report it. I figured it wouldn''t help me so I shouldn''t bother. But now, I really wish I had called to report the incident, just so I know that I did something instead of nothing.