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Setting Q for halo & side bands

stlc

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2011
Messages
89
Hi there!
I have found this site sooooo brilliant! I luff it! :love:

I am in the process of designing a ring and I found the article on Prong settings wonderful! I never even knew there where such beautiful different options.
I am completely clueless, so I am seriously not a pro on terminology so plz bare with me ;-)

Now my biggest question comes down to band settings - the setting around the 0.01's that you can have either as the halo or as bands.
And what I mean by that is the following:

under Milgrain (Millegrain is a row of tiny beads that line a metal edge of a ring.) there are:
Large grain?
Medium grain?
Mini grain ?

Then if you just want a border:
Then I have heard about Channel & shoulder?

I have seen the border being quite wide on either side of the 0.01's (I think its called channel setting) and I have seen a very very narrow border. What is the different names for the respective ones?? (I know its called full bezel when around the centre stone but what is it called when it is around the halo? or along the bands down the side?)


I have no idea what the difference is! :read:
I am very very confused :sick:

I hope I have explained myself alright,

plz help a very lost ring soul :D

(I posted this in the ask for article section too - might be nice to have an article on this)
 

mrssalvo

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Messages
19,132
ok, you've got me confused :wacko: ;))

What might be easier is if you could post a picture of a ring and let us help tell you what the parts are you are asking about.

Milgrain is done on the edges of a channel with a tool. It's not anything extra added. I've never really thought about whether their are different sizes but most people want it very delicate.

channel and shoulder can mean the same thing. pave is sometimes set in a channel and other times it's not, with fishtail pave for example.

stones can be bezeled in a halo or prong set in a halo. different types of pave have different types of sides. here is a picture of of some of the pave that someone else posted with the different styles of pave. Maybe it will help??



Pave_0.jpg
 

stlc

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2011
Messages
89
:lol:
Your reply already helped me :)
stones can be bezeled in a halo or prong set in a halo.
channel and shoulder can mean the same thing.
pave is sometimes set in a channel and other times it's not, with fishtail pave for example.
different types of pave have different types of sides.
The last one on your pic you posted - far right - is what I am looking for :D
:idea: :idea:


The wider channel/shoulder settings that I have seen:



(this is kinda in the middle of wide and narrow)


The narrow channel/shoulder settings: (like the last one on your pic you posted - far right)


(only focusing on the halo here)




Milgrain:
Big

mini
(this you can still distinctly see the line and then the milgrain is extra)
(here all you see is milgrain)
(bead set pave?)




In my design I would like milgrain along the side bands, I first wanted to also have it along the halo, but when I thought about it, I came to the conclusion that the halo needs some definition. So I just wanted a channel/shoulder strip (narrow).
But I have no idea the terminology for it :read:
:wacko: I hope the images help a bit.

I will post more :bigsmile: - I have been designing it for awhile so have lots of drawings and pics :loopy:
But for now - I need help with the basics.
thank you so much for your response! I really appreciate it! oxo
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
I think you are looking for bead set rather than channel set? or perhaps the bright cut that mrssalvo posted?
 

mrssalvo

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Messages
19,132
yes, some of those rings are channel set which is different than pave set in a channel using beads.

here is a pave halo with the milgrain that I think is what you are after?? this one is made by daniel K..



Picture%203_0.png
 

stlc

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2011
Messages
89
Hey :),

bead set: the one with the tiny little dots inside holding the baby d's? (like seen in the black rhodium plated one?)
channel set: just the line?
bright cut?

When you ask your designer for a setting, errrmmmm.... ok hang on...

You see for around the halo, I wanted a 'border'/'boundary' (channel/shoulder??) setting without the milgrain. I also wanted the 'border'/'boundary' to be a thiiiiin line. Not the thicker lines seen in the first section I posted pics.
Then for the bands that come down the side of the finger, I wanted to then have the milgrain included.

So would I then just ask for a channel setting? And then do I specify that I want it narrow? Like is the channel setting (thicker/thinner) still just called a channel setting?
And then if I wanted just the line I would say without milgrain and visa versa if I wanted the milgrain then I ask for it?

I might not be making sense, or I might be not quite understanding you guys :)



I loved the link you posted - yes!!!! on many of them & yes to you mrssalvo (prob just without the little sections), but for the halo just without the milgrain.


I love the fishtail prong setting so I'm playing with the idea of having a gap like here:
(yet I want without the milgrain)
- I really like this too.

What are the names for settings like these? :read:
 

mrssalvo

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Messages
19,132
you can ask for the halo to be made without milgrain. You'll have to have the beads though if you want a thin border. In the regular channel set band (gaps, no bead) the metal is thicker and needs to be to secure the stones.

The Beverley K settings are just antique replica type settings. Most have halo's and the milgrain b/c 100 years ago they did everything by hand and jewelers actually added the milgrain to hide imperfections in the settings. Now we use it for style purposes.

If you are working with a designer/jeweler I would try to get examples and pictures of that jewelers work so they have a very clear understanding of what you are wanting and you can see that they are able to do exactly what "you" are wanting. You seem to have a lot of ideas you want to include and this can be a recipe for disaster if the designer is a little lost or confused and decides to interpret something him/herself. Also, some idea's a great but just can't be done without compromising the integrity of the ring so you need a jeweler to explain that too if it's the case.
 

stlc

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2011
Messages
89
mrssalvo said:
you can ask for the halo to be made without milgrain. You'll have to have the beads though if you want a thin border. In the regular channel set band (gaps, no bead) the metal is thicker and needs to be to secure the stones.

The Beverley K settings are just antique replica type settings. Most have halo's and the milgrain b/c 100 years ago they did everything by hand and jewelers actually added the milgrain to hide imperfections in the settings. Now we use it for style purposes.

If you are working with a designer/jeweler I would try to get examples and pictures of that jewelers work so they have a very clear understanding of what you are wanting and you can see that they are able to do exactly what "you" are wanting. You seem to have a lot of ideas you want to include and this can be a recipe for disaster if the designer is a little lost or confused and decides to interpret something him/herself. Also, some idea's a great but just can't be done without compromising the integrity of the ring so you need a jeweler to explain that too if it's the case.
It is really amazing as when I tried to find pictures of rings without milgrain, it proved to be very very difficult :)
I really do like it though, reminds me of this quote:
"A thing of beauty is a joy for ever
Its loveliness increases; it will never
Pass into nothingness; but still will keep" (Keats)

I think this is what we do here, we talk about and design THE most beautiful things in the world, our rings with their various sparklies :love: Its a wonderful subject, I dont think I could ever tire of it.

I am SOOO fortunate to have a wonderful designer that really 'gets' what I am trying to bring into the ring. She is very honest so I really hope she does tell me if I have gone crazy! lol! It really has been a journey and sometimes quite sad as you approach someone with all your dreams and they give you some half assed job. Blegh. But this lady is brilliant!
I will post a separate convo on the ring design as its quite lengthy and still very much in the making ;-)

I think I have some answers now.
Let me recap.

Channel/shoulder is the border part, it can be narrow or wide depending on how you want the diamonds in that area to look, close together/gaps inbetween, beads etc.
if you want a narrow border then you need the beads as it is more secure.
You can have the channel/shoulder on any part of the ring not just the halo.

The only thing I don't know - what is bright cut? I can search for it so just tell me to stop being lazy if you don't feel like answering, just want a lay-man's way of telling me what it is. I thought cut had to do with the diamonds? But here we spoke about it in a setting???

Thank you for all your wonderful help!
 

stlc

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2011
Messages
89
hummmmm ponder ponder......Funny thing is that I actually did read all the info section awhile ago.
I checked yesterday and then found the tutorial: https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/engagement-rings/engagement-rings-tutorial
Which I dont remember being there - but glad I found it as I now understand the 'shoulder' aspect we were talking about.

I also found another post where one of the users had great pics.
But I think the most helpful hint was that if you want narrow then you have to go for bead set to secure it. And that its all called channel.

But as a thought - I would say that putting channel/shoulder as a group together does not make sense.
Channel is a setting and Shoulder is an actual location on the ring.
Or maybe the ppl in the business do actually use channel and shoulder interchangeably. I don't know.

This next image:

I know its pave or channel with milgrain, and channel without milgrain. But if you look at each one - they are distinctly different.
Do they have different names? They were actually on the website each with a different code, so each one is different. (Stardust)


:rolleyes:

Startdust eternity comparrison.jpg
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,806
It is very dangerous to use the word "channel set" because with round stones, that will mean they are set with open gaps between stones. bead set closes in the gaps. MrsS showed you an example of bright cut pave on an earlier post. It is just one style of setting the stones. I am really unclear about the actual ring that you want. It would be pretty important for you to find pictures of the elements you want in order to show your ring maker. And be sure it is something they do well. Not all ring makers are skilled at making the same kinds of rings.
 

stlc

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2011
Messages
89
diamondseeker2006 said:
It is very dangerous to use the word "channel set" because with round stones, that will mean they are set with open gaps between stones. bead set closes in the gaps. MrsS showed you an example of bright cut pave on an earlier post. It is just one style of setting the stones. I am really unclear about the actual ring that you want. It would be pretty important for you to find pictures of the elements you want in order to show your ring maker. And be sure it is something they do well. Not all ring makers are skilled at making the same kinds of rings.
oh goodness... I dont know how I am explaining myself but it must be weirdly as I really feel like I am not being understood here.
Maybe I have not shared enough info about the situation.
Most NB This post is to fish for information about various styles of how a person can have their halo or shank/shoulder. What are the different ways of having the 0.01cts done.
The last image I posted is a clear example of the different ways that one can do it.

There are so many names flying around here in the forums that it is really really super difficult to figure it out. EVEN if I do try educate myself in the Knowledge section. They really just do the super basics but everyone here on the forum are certainly not on super basics.

That is why the last image is a great example of showing how various the 3 major techniques are. (pave, with milgrain, without milgrain)
I am a very logical person.
In my brain if there is any difference then it has a different 'name', e.g.) the milgrain is on the top of a border = 1 name, if the milgrain is on the side of the border = another name. If the border has no milgrain = 1 name, if the border is thick/wide = 1 name, if the border is thin/narow = another name. etcetc

Yet I have asked these questions over and over and I have yet to receive a straight answer.

I don't know how else to explain myself as I do not have the knowledge.
All I have is photos and laymans' language.

Secondly, I know exactly the elements that I want and have many many pics of them (but that is for another topic which I mentioned I would post that is specifically about my design). I have discussed it in detail with the ring designer, she's on the same page as me (it really is not that fancy and complicated) has done a version 1 of a CAD image for me.
It is not quite correct yet but its on its way.

I am just :blackeye: trying to gain some info.
Thats all.
 

mrssalvo

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Messages
19,132
stic, I wish I could help you more. I have been on this forum for years and still don't understand everything. I actually am not a huge fan of custom personally b/c I like to see and know exactly what I'm getting. Especially with something as detailed as you are wanting. I do understand that there are people like yourself who cannot find an already made designer or non-designer setting and need to go custom, or like and enjoy the process of creating something from scratch. Most of us here are just consumer's who self-educated. Most of us are not professional's and even nick name terms that most people in the trade wouldn't know what we were talking about. I don't want to get overly detailed with you and give you wrong information. I think people started using the word "halo" here, long b/f it was a commonly used word in jewelry stores. I really think the best thing you can do is sit down with your designer and have her explain the differences to you and what type of pave she is most comfortable/skilled at. She is in the trade and if she is making your ring you can see what terms she uses to describe the type of pave/border that you are wanting. If she can show you examples of her work and you can say, yes, I like the width of this or the border on that, then she can help you put all the pieces together to get the ring you are wanting.

The picture's you posted are too small but most like like bead set pave. They can use different size melee making the ring look different and/or be priced different. Micro-pave is usually one row and bead set. the last ring with the 3 rows of pave is what is traditional pave.

Maybe Leon Mege's explanation might be helpful?

http://www.artofplatinum.com/vault/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=79&Itemid=6

http://www.artofplatinum.com/vault/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=143&Itemid=8
 

stlc

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2011
Messages
89
mrssalvo|1305054697|2917603 said:
stic, I wish I could help you more. I have been on this forum for years and still don't understand everything. I actually am not a huge fan of custom personally b/c I like to see and know exactly what I'm getting. Especially with something as detailed as you are wanting. I do understand that there are people like yourself who cannot find an already made designer or non-designer setting and need to go custom, or like and enjoy the process of creating something from scratch. Most of us here are just consumer's who self-educated. Most of us are not professional's and even nick name terms that most people in the trade wouldn't know what we were talking about. I don't want to get overly detailed with you and give you wrong information. I think people started using the word "halo" here, long b/f it was a commonly used word in jewelry stores. I really think the best thing you can do is sit down with your designer and have her explain the differences to you and what type of pave she is most comfortable/skilled at. She is in the trade and if she is making your ring you can see what terms she uses to describe the type of pave/border that you are wanting. If she can show you examples of her work and you can say, yes, I like the width of this or the border on that, then she can help you put all the pieces together to get the ring you are wanting.

The picture's you posted are too small but most like like bead set pave. They can use different size melee making the ring look different and/or be priced different. Micro-pave is usually one row and bead set. the last ring with the 3 rows of pave is what is traditional pave.

Maybe Leon Mege's explanation might be helpful?

http://www.artofplatinum.com/vault/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=79&Itemid=6

http://www.artofplatinum.com/vault/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=143&Itemid=8
Thank you so much for your response - I was at a point of despair there.
Sorry I thought the last image that I posted when you click on becomes bigger - but I think it might have lost its resolution when it got uploaded. blegh.
With your help:
Pave Types:
http://www.artofplatinum.com/vault/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=79&Itemid=6
It has everything in there! Thank you so much!
It is clear and very informative. Brilliant!
Now I can have a clue about whats going on.... phew!
Thanx again.
I agree with you on the custom thing, I wish that I could just walk into a place and find one that just suited me just right but I have been searching now for a year lol. I have small, squishy hands so I need fine detail, but I also don't like things that are too 'girly'. I need some aspects of bold. So I started down the custom rd. (eeeek)
There has really been a boom in the custom realm and I am finding new images all the time. Don't think that was always there before.
Its great! Yet also makes life soooo much more complicated with all the various options. Always one with the other =)

I will post soon when I get a new design sent my way, then I can share the journey with anyone who is interested.
Thank you!

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