shape
carat
color
clarity

Seeing is believing?

Stoneseekernc

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 19, 2014
Messages
10
Purchased a diamond today to pick up next week.

Cushion cut
1.55 C
Polish:Excellent
symetry:good
Table and depth were excellent
Color H
SI 1

The other diamond I was considering was

Cushion cut
1.51
Polish excellent
Symmetry very good
Table and depth were excellent
Color F
SI2

I chose the top stone because in my opinion it was more visually appealing. In fact it gave a stunning light return. In my mind I wanted to like the second listed stone because it had a better resume. I picked the top stone which was priced $200 greater. Would most people choose visual appeal over pedigree? Curious to see what others think.
 
The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut.

With fancies like cushions the numbers don't tell you anything. Only light performance and light return matter.

If you made sure to look at the diamond both clean and smudged and oily, both in natural light and under indirect incandescent light and it's the one you liked best... then thats a good thing.

I'd personally take it to an INDEPENDENT appraiser who has an ASET scope so they can evaluate light performance for it. http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance

https://www.pricescope.com/appraisers
 
What is important though is that you are able to assess it in ALL kinds of lighting, not just the jeweler's lights -i.e. diffuse lighting, outdoors, etc. to make sure that it performs all around. If you want to be safe, like Gypsy was saying AGS 000 cushion cuts, while rare, are a surefire way to get a great performing stone.
 
Roqsteady|1398146343|3657650 said:
What is important though is that you are able to assess it in ALL kinds of lighting, not just the jeweler's lights -i.e. diffuse lighting, outdoors, etc. to make sure that it performs all around. If you want to be safe, like Gypsy was saying AGS 000 cushion cuts, while rare, are a surefire way to get a great performing stone.


I revised. No I didn't mean he should stick to AGS0 cushions as they will be impossible for him to find locally. Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt. I posted before noticing he was talking about cushions.
 
Thanks for the input. I looked at the stone in the store as well as outside in sunlight and the H rated stone simply looked better from a light reflection and shimmer standpoint to me and it's face view looked bigger to me. I am a bit fixated on the color being only H vs F. Looking Dow. At table of diamond I cannot convince myself there is a color change.
 
Stoneseekernc|1398173082|3657763 said:
Thanks for the input. I looked at the stone in the store as well as outside in sunlight and the H rated stone simply looked better from a light reflection and shimmer standpoint to me and it's face view looked bigger to me. I am a bit fixated on the color being only H vs F. Looking Dow. At table of diamond I cannot convince myself there is a color change.


This is absolutely logical - if the cut of the H colored diamond is great. In really well-cut diamonds (especially with faceting like rounds, cushions & princess) the face-up color appearance can be whiter because the light gets in-and-out without illuminating the body color so much. The "H" grade was assigned when the diamond was face-down.
 
It is important to remember is that color is graded FACE DOWN. Where there is NO light return. Not face up where there is light return and refraction. You wear diamonds set. FACE UP.

Within one color grade, even the labs can't agree on the color grades of stones and something could be a "high" H or a "low" E. So... no. Not really. Within 2 color grades it is hard. Not impossible. But very hard. And it gets harder once set. If you are talking ideal rounds, or any stone with ideal light return and no sharp corners it gets harder still because the ideal light return masks body color.

Generally we say to be conservative stay above H.

This is how I think of it.

Ever gotten one of those HUGE paint fan decks? Where there are literally 100s of colors of whites? And when they are RIGHT next to each other you can TOTALLY tell that one is bluer/colder and one is a bit warmer and which one is one is TOTALLY warmer. One there's one that's slightly greener. One that's slightly pinker? But really. They are all white?

Then you pick one after agonizing over this white or that white and when it's on the walls and people are like: Oh. You painted again. And it's STILL white. Great.

And you're all... BUT it's BLUE white. Or it's a WARM white now. It used to be ____ white. It's TOTALLY different.

It's like that. You are talking about shades of white. D is colder... J is warmer. But it's all white.

YES. If you have an accurately graded F and an H THAT HAVE THE SAME PERFORMANCE you are going to be able to tell them apart when you compare them. Just like you would be able to tell if you painted your walls a warm white, but painted the crown molding a cold/straight white. But both are STILL white.

I want you notice all the qualifiers thought. I'm talking about stones with the SAME performance. An ideal H will out white an F that has compromised light performance from a poor cut.

NOTHING impacts the appearance of a diamond as much as cut. CUT is king.

You want the shinest whitest and brightest diamond out there: Cut is King. No other factor, not color or clarity or anything else impacts how white bright an shiny a stone is. And with fancies cut means light return, which is why I recommended going to an appraiser with an ASET scope.
 
The symetry on the stone I bought was only rated as good vs the stone I rejected which was very good. The stone I chose just looked cut better to be based on shimmer and sparkle.
 
Stoneseekernc|1398293087|3658773 said:
The symetry on the stone I bought was only rated as good vs the stone I rejected which was very good. The stone I chose just looked cut better to be based on shimmer and sparkle.


Symmetry, as judged by the labs, is not about performance. It’s about facets joining correctly, and proper alignment of crown and pavilion (etc). So the “Good” in symmetry isn’t going to affect the light performance. In a round brilliant I’d be concerned that it indicated a sloppy approach to the cutting, but there is more forgiveness in this shape. The important comment you posted is that you chose it with your eyes. That pretty much says it.
 
Gypsy said:
It is important to remember is that color is graded FACE DOWN. Where there is NO light return. Not face up where there is light return and refraction. You wear diamonds set. FACE UP.

Within one color grade, even the labs can't agree on the color grades of stones and something could be a "high" H or a "low" E. So... no. Not really. Within 2 color grades it is hard. Not impossible. But very hard. And it gets harder once set. If you are talking ideal rounds, or any stone with ideal light return and no sharp corners it gets harder still because the ideal light return masks body color.

Generally we say to be conservative stay above H.

This is how I think of it.

Ever gotten one of those HUGE paint fan decks? Where there are literally 100s of colors of whites? And when they are RIGHT next to each other you can TOTALLY tell that one is bluer/colder and one is a bit warmer and which one is one is TOTALLY warmer. One there's one that's slightly greener. One that's slightly pinker? But really. They are all white?

Then you pick one after agonizing over this white or that white and when it's on the walls and people are like: Oh. You painted again. And it's STILL white. Great.

And you're all... BUT it's BLUE white. Or it's a WARM white now. It used to be ____ white. It's TOTALLY different.

It's like that. You are talking about shades of white. D is colder... J is warmer. But it's all white.

YES. If you have an accurately graded F and an H THAT HAVE THE SAME PERFORMANCE you are going to be able to tell them apart when you compare them. Just like you would be able to tell if you painted your walls a warm white, but painted the crown molding a cold/straight white. But both are STILL white.

I want you notice all the qualifiers thought. I'm talking about stones with the SAME performance. An ideal H will out white an F that has compromised light performance from a poor cut.

NOTHING impacts the appearance of a diamond as much as cut. CUT is king.

You want the shinest whitest and brightest diamond out there: Cut is King. No other factor, not color or clarity or anything else impacts how white bright an shiny a stone is. And with fancies cut means light return, which is why I recommended going to an appraiser with an ASET scope.

I see you wrote "conservatively we recommend staying above H". Does that include H, or do you recommend G?
 
I should have said H and above. :wavey:
 
I do have to disagree with one point. I do think chosing with your eyes is important. But with fancies I recommend you get a good independent appraisal (by an appraisal that is not affiliated in anyway with a retail establishment) with an ASET within your return period. To confirm that it is a nice stone and that it has good performance.

If you are spending thousands an experienced second opinion is a good idea.

Also... how many stones did you see before you chose it?

If you only saw 2-3 cushions. Then you choosing a particular one isn't really... well, that reliable. The other two could have been terrible, and this one could just be better. Not best.

So I don't think "choosing with your eyes" is the period to the sentence.
 
While I don't disagree with finding an independent appraiser, it's very hard to find a good one that will actually be helpful to you. I struggle with this that very few can tell me more about the diamond than I already know. I often get better help from my "PS Friends".
 
I prob looked at ~ 30 cushion stones in the realm of stats I was interested. I should have planned things better, but I plan to obtain ring and propose within the week, and cannot see how I would have the stone evaluated prior to giving it to her. I could ask her after the fact if she would like it evaluated.

My biggest concern was the color difference between the stones H (selected stone) and F stone which I rejected. The stone I selected symetry was only listed as good . It was also 200 dollars more than the colorless stone, but 0.04 c weight heavier and rated at SI1 vs SI 2. I could find pinpoint inclusions on the stone I selected vs a feather in the other stone. I feel kinda anxious because I turned down the better resume stone for a stone which looked better and bigger to me both inside and outside in the sun. I am supposed to pick it up tommorrow after it is set. Place is supposed to have 30 day return policy so worst case I return it.
 
Can you post the GIA certificates?

Cushions are difficult to buy because their price is highly dependent on the plot pattern and how it is cut. The price just based on color, carat, clarity, symmetry and polish ranges widely ... with the plot pattern distinguishing the price.
 
CharmyPoo said:
Can you post the GIA certificates?

Cushions are difficult to buy because their price is highly dependent on the plot pattern and how it is cut. The price just based on color, carat, clarity, symmetry and polish ranges widely ... with the plot pattern distinguishing the price.

Do not have it as I have not purchased it yet, but I do know:

1.55 H/SI1
Polish: excellent
Cut: good
6.75x6.45x4.3
Depth 67.2%
Table 61%
Thn to thick

The manager/diamond buyer told me he purchases all the diamonds for the store and to choose it even thought the other stones numbers looked better. He said don't pay for what you can't see. Told me that as far as cushions go--they just don't get any better. I was/am a bit skeptical as to if he was truly being sincere or business minded for himself? Althought he did seen genuine.
 
Stone, we just picked up our 1.51 cushion e-ring, and like you we looked at a lot of stones before choosing. The one that was best on paper, a 1.3 E VVS1 8-main, simply did not look as good at the one we chose, a 1.51 H VVS2 4-main. The color difference was only moderately noticeable because the cut of the H simply knocked the other stone out of the water. We showed them side by side to a bunch of people in a blind test, and everyone picked the H. I'm not an expert, just someone who recently went though the same thing, but we were positively militant about excluding certain facet patterns. We wanted either an antique cut or in a modern, an 8-main or 4-main only. Listen to the folks who have responded. They're really good at this. I would love to see the facet plots of the stones you're looking at. Good luck to you!
 
Julescott said:
Stone, we just picked up our 1.51 cushion e-ring, and like you we looked at a lot of stones before choosing. The one that was best on paper, a 1.3 E VVS1 8-main, simply did not look as good at the one we chose, a 1.51 H VVS2 4-main. The color difference was only moderately noticeable because the cut of the H simply knocked the other stone out of the water. We showed them side by side to a bunch of people in a blind test, and everyone picked the H. I'm not an expert, just someone who recently went though the same thing, but we were positively militant about excluding certain facet patterns. We wanted either an antique cut or in a modern, an 8-main or 4-main only. Listen to the folks who have responded. They're really good at this. I would love to see the facet plots of the stones you're looking at. Good luck to you!

Thanks. Anxious to pick it up tomorrow.
 
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