Screaming kids on commercial flights

[wsu12]

I see this has gotten to be quite the heated thread...To be honest when I was younger (early twenties) I found the crying/screaming baby on the plane to be annoying and headache inducing. Now, at the ripe old age of 29 I mostly feel very sorry for the parent(s)..I imagine they are feeling humiliated and defeated.

Nevertheless, this provides an extra does of birth control.

 

[iluvcarats]

Date: 11/25/2009 9:35:17 PM
Author: KimberlyH

Date: 11/25/2009 8:03:06 PM

Author: Tacori E-ring

I have moved SEVERAL times for people with lap babies so they can have the open seat. Why wouldn't you?

I've never been asked to move for a lap baby to have an empty seat so I can't say what I'd do, it would probably depend on the length of the flight and where I was being moved to; I have given up my seat for other reasons and don't think it's such a big deal. But I would and do think if someone wants a seat for their child then they need to pay for it, rather expect anyone to move so they can have a seat next to one that is empty (that empty seat is valuable to an adult too, and having a child doesn't give someone more of a right to said seat). For me it's all about entitlement and expectation.


Everyone I know ho travels has airline horror stories and ways in which we feel we were wronged by our fellow passengers and airline staff. I think if we all, parents or not, were more considerate of one another there wouldn't be a whole lot for any of us to sit around discussing.


I'm not directing any of this at you, I'm just speaking in general terms to answer your question.

This thread was started because the OP feels he is entitled to a quiet plane ride, and he expects to get it. It doesn't matter how - drug them, duct tape them, whatever. What a disturbing reflection of our society. It still baffles me that there are "grownups" out there who have no empathy for the children that they themselves could have once been. No child is perfect. (you might think you were, but you weren't. Ask your mom) Just like adults, kids have bad days too.

I have no expectations anymore. Just hope, but it's fading.

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 11/25/2009 10:49:47 PM
Author: iluvcarats

Date: 11/25/2009 9:35:17 PM
Author: KimberlyH

Date: 11/25/2009 8:03:06 PM

Author: Tacori E-ring

I have moved SEVERAL times for people with lap babies so they can have the open seat. Why wouldn't you?

I've never been asked to move for a lap baby to have an empty seat so I can't say what I'd do, it would probably depend on the length of the flight and where I was being moved to; I have given up my seat for other reasons and don't think it's such a big deal. But I would and do think if someone wants a seat for their child then they need to pay for it, rather expect anyone to move so they can have a seat next to one that is empty (that empty seat is valuable to an adult too, and having a child doesn't give someone more of a right to said seat). For me it's all about entitlement and expectation.


Everyone I know ho travels has airline horror stories and ways in which we feel we were wronged by our fellow passengers and airline staff. I think if we all, parents or not, were more considerate of one another there wouldn't be a whole lot for any of us to sit around discussing.


I'm not directing any of this at you, I'm just speaking in general terms to answer your question.

This thread was started because the OP feels he is entitled to a quiet plane ride, and he expects to get it. It doesn't matter how - drug them, duct tape them, whatever. What a disturbing reflection of our society. It still baffles me that there are 'grownups' out there that have no empathy for the children that they themselves could have once been. No child is perfect. (you might think you were, but you weren't. Ask your mom) Just like adults, kids have bad days too.

I have no expectations anymore. Just hope, but it's fading.

I'm a teacher, a pregnant one no less, I am well aware of all that children are and aren't. I don't think anyone is "entitled" to anything, whether we're talking a silent plane ride or a child who is allowed to do as he or she pleases on a plane (we're obviously talking toddlers and up here, not infants). Parents should be aware of the affect their child/rens' noise has on those around them and adult passengers should show some understanding to the parent of the child who is inconsolable. Do I agree with the OP, no (but I understand why he might feel the way he does). I also don't agree with the response of shut up and deal with it (but I understand why parents dealing with a difficult child would respond this way, they've been placed on the defensive). Again, the obvious solution is to be a bit more kind and understanding to those around us, whether they have kids or not.

 

[glitterata]

Parents should teach their children to behave themselves in public places. Nobody should have to put up with screaming brats past toddler age.

Infants are different. Screaming is the only way they can communicate their pain. However, the infant who screams for eight hours on an airplane because the air pressure is hurting his sensitive inner ears should not be on that plane, not just because his screaming annoys other passengers, but because the poor thing is in pain. If you have an infant who screams in agony for hours on end on airplanes, don't take him on an airplane until he's old enough to be able to bear it. Do you really want to torture your baby?

 

[kenny]

Date: 11/25/2009 11:38:04 PM
Author: glitterata
If you have an infant who screams in agony for hours on end on airplanes, don't take him on an airplane until he's old enough to be able to bear it.

I am not being snarky, but how do you know when he's old enough to bear it without taking him on a jet?
Then once you do have him on a jet, if he can't bear it then what?

 

[Karl_K]

re: window seat.. some people are claustrophobic in planes and need to have a window seat. I am.
One lady was pretty rude that I wouldn''t let her have my window seat.
When I booked I changed flights just so I could have a window seat.

 

[purrfectpear]

Date: 11/25/2009 10:49:47 PM
Author: iluvcarats


This thread was started because the OP feels he is entitled to a quiet plane ride, and he expects to get it. It doesn''t matter how - drug them, duct tape them, whatever. What a disturbing reflection of our society. It still baffles me that there are ''grownups'' out there who have no empathy for the children that they themselves could have once been. No child is perfect. (you might think you were, but you weren''t. Ask your mom) Just like adults, kids have bad days too.

I have no expectations anymore. Just hope, but it''s fading.

Perfect? No. However I never, and I mean NEVER pitched a fit in public, crying or screaming, nor did my son and we flew quite often when he was an infant, and as a toddler and on.
Not to get to deeply into Nature vs. Nurture, I suspect the parents of children who behave well set clear expectations and appropriate consequences when they are not met. My son tried a tantrum ONCE in a ToysRUs and I yanked him off the floor and dragged him out to the car. It never occurred again. He was not a perfect child but he never embarrassed me in public.

As to babies who cry due to pressurization, most parents (and all flight attendants) know that babies who suckle clear their ears. You cannot count on their taking milk, so bring a bottle of sugar water and they WILL drink. Nutritious no. Effective yes.

 

[steph72276]

I agree that parents should do as much as possible to be prepared. I have flown with my son several times and never had a problem, thankfully. When he was an infant, I brought bottles and pacifiers to have him take while we were taking off and landing. When he was a toddler, I had a huge bag prepared of things to distract him, lollipops for his ears (and so his mouth would be occupied and therefore not talking as much), coloring books galore, games, small puzzles, books to read and look at, movies when he was older, and snacks. I would literally be working the entire flight to keep him preoccupied so that he didn''t bother any other passengers. For me, this worked...however, if it hadn''t, I would feel bad but then again, there''s not much else to do past what I did. If we were by ourselves, I would get dirty looks from people all around me when they saw they were sitting next to a young child. After the flight, however, I would get person after person coming up to me to tell me how good he was. It is stressful to fly with a child (especially with only 1 parent), so people should just be kind and not give the dirty looks. Sometimes flying is the only option and you have to do it (in my case, it was to take my son to see his grandparents....a trip that was too far to take by car alone with a child). Parents should do all they can do to have their child behave, but people should also give parents a break when they see they are doing all they can do.

 

[iluvcarats]

Date: 11/26/2009 2:58:39 AM
Author: purrfectpear

Date: 11/25/2009 10:49:47 PM

Author: iluvcarats



This thread was started because the OP feels he is entitled to a quiet plane ride, and he expects to get it. It doesn't matter how - drug them, duct tape them, whatever. What a disturbing reflection of our society. It still baffles me that there are 'grownups' out there who have no empathy for the children that they themselves could have once been. No child is perfect. (you might think you were, but you weren't. Ask your mom) Just like adults, kids have bad days too.



I have no expectations anymore. Just hope, but it's fading.

Perfect? No. However I never, and I mean NEVER pitched a fit in public, crying or screaming, nor did my son and we flew quite often when he was an infant, and as a toddler and on.

Not to get to deeply into Nature vs. Nurture, I suspect the parents of children who behave well set clear expectations and appropriate consequences when they are not met. My son tried a tantrum ONCE in a ToysRUs and I yanked him off the floor and dragged him out to the car. It never occurred again. He was not a perfect child but he never embarrassed me in public.


As to babies who cry due to pressurization, most parents (and all flight attendants) know that babies who suckle clear their ears. You cannot count on their taking milk, so bring a bottle of sugar water and they WILL drink. Nutritious no. Effective yes.

I don't condone bratty behavior. My kids are good. I have flown with them several times and have never had a problem. They watch their dvd players, eat their snacks and sleep. And they complain about how long the flight is, but they don't have a hissy fit tantrum about it. But if someone else's child is having a hissy fit tantrum, I don't reciprocate with one of my own

I feel empathy for them. Or I put on my noise canceling headphones. And as far as giving your baby sugar water, well, what happens when the baby doesn't like it, won't drink it, and gets so upset that s/he starts projectile vomiting from being so upset. Are you going to force a bottle in the baby's mouth. How are you going to MAKE a baby drink? I understand the "nature" PP, but where's the "nurture"? And by the way, in today's PC world, your reaction to your son at Toys R Us would probably earn you a call to Child Protective Services from a "concerned citizen" and possibly 15 minutes of fame on CNN as they replay the surveillance tape over and over again.

 

[fieryred33143]

I travel every other month with my job, internationally and domestic.

I can count on one hand the number of times I''ve heard a screaming child. I just don''t see it anymore.

What I do see, however, are teens with loud handheld video games where they are almost always shooting at someone; people with ipods that always leave me baffled as to how their eardrums aren''t bleeding; adults that carry on conversations where it feels like its right behind you but really they''re in a whole other section; and complainers about the plane being too cold, too warm, sodas are too expensive, why is there a line to the bathroom, why can''t we use the first class bathroom, these seats are too small, why do airlines book planes to full capacity and it goes on and on.

Perhaps next time I''ll kindly suggest to one of these adults that if they can''t keep quiet, they should find another mode of transportation so that I can rest.

 

[Logan Sapphire]

Date: 11/26/2009 2:03:21 AM
Author: Karl_K
re: window seat.. some people are claustrophobic in planes and need to have a window seat. I am.

One lady was pretty rude that I wouldn''t let her have my window seat.

When I booked I changed flights just so I could have a window seat.

I agree that you just never know the reasons for someone not wanting to move. My sister HATES to fly to the point where she has to take prescription drugs and knock herself out. Even with the drugs, her hands sweat buckets. She needs to be by the window to look out- I don''t know if it''s a control thing or what. So asking her to move would be very difficult. She probably would do it to accommodate a family, but I couldn''t say she would for sure.

 

[Mara]

"And by the way, in today''s PC world, your reaction to your son at Toys R Us would probably earn you a call to Child Protective Services from a "concerned citizen" and possibly 15 minutes of fame on CNN as they replay the surveillance tape over and over again. "

___________

I don''t think we are QUITE there yet, thank GOD!! My Mom did this countless times to me when I was misbehaving (often) in stores...I''d get taken out to the car for a talking to or we''d just leave. Unless the parent is totally manhandling the child, then I''d hope pulling a screaming kid off the floor and out of the store would hopefully not be met by a call to CPS! If so, we are never leaving the house again!

 

[iluvcarats]

Date: 11/26/2009 12:39:50 PM
Author: Mara
''And by the way, in today''s PC world, your reaction to your son at Toys R Us would probably earn you a call to Child Protective Services from a ''concerned citizen'' and possibly 15 minutes of fame on CNN as they replay the surveillance tape over and over again. ''


___________


I don''t think we are QUITE there yet, thank GOD!! My Mom did this countless times to me when I was misbehaving (often) in stores...I''d get taken out to the car for a talking to or we''d just leave. Unless the parent is totally manhandling the child, then I''d hope pulling a screaming kid off the floor and out of the store would hopefully not be met by a call to CPS! If so, we are never leaving the house again!

Hyperbole? yes.
But you would be surprised. I know someone whose license plate was reported for running into the post office for 30 seconds while her 4 kids (one who was 11) were in the car. I take my kids inside with me everywhere, but I don''t think that situation warranted a call to CPS.

Kids have tantrums. They need discipline, and they need patience.

 

[wsu12]

Last night I spoke with my husband about this thread. I wanted to hear his thoughts. The first point he brought up to me was AIR TRAVEL IS NOT PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION. My brother-in-law is also a pilot and he echoed these sentiments.

Public Transportation: Public transport services are usually funded by fares charged to each passenger, with varying levels of subsidy from local or national tax revenue; fully-subsidised, zero-fare services operate in some towns and cities.

And just to play the devils advocate here, Suppose my husband and I were on a flight and we choose to speak loudly, using foul language (which we would NEVER do)...Would it then be a parents responsibility to purchase noise canceling headphones for their children? You may say adults "know better", but who is the judge and jury of that?

I personally cannot recall a time when I would have desired or needed said headphones, I travel 6-7 times yearly. I feel that type of crying from a child is most often the exception not the rule.

 

[wsu12]

I wanted to add that I am not a child hater and have plans to start a family (god willing

) within the next 1-2 years. I hope that my post does not cause offense to anyone, I certainly do not want that.

 

[steph72276]

Fsu the difference is that if you were acting that way, the flight attendant would ask you to stop and if you didn''t comply you could be arrested, so I have a feeling you would stop!

 

[luv2sparkle]

I think the world would be a happier place is we all kept lollipops in our purses to help a mom with a difficult child

 

[wsu12]

Date: 11/27/2009 5:49:28 AM
Author: steph72276
Fsu the difference is that if you were acting that way, the flight attendant would ask you to stop and if you didn''t comply you could be arrested, so I have a feeling you would stop!

You may be right, I am certainly not willing to test this theory out

But I think you get my point, adults sitting near a child saying things/words that you do not want your child hearing....Something that I do not think occurs very often which would be in a way like a child screaming (the exception not the rule).

 

[LtlFirecracker]

Date: 11/26/2009 12:39:50 PM
Author: Mara
''And by the way, in today''s PC world, your reaction to your son at Toys R Us would probably earn you a call to Child Protective Services from a ''concerned citizen'' and possibly 15 minutes of fame on CNN as they replay the surveillance tape over and over again. ''


___________


I don''t think we are QUITE there yet, thank GOD!! My Mom did this countless times to me when I was misbehaving (often) in stores...I''d get taken out to the car for a talking to or we''d just leave. Unless the parent is totally manhandling the child, then I''d hope pulling a screaming kid off the floor and out of the store would hopefully not be met by a call to CPS! If so, we are never leaving the house again!

Removing a screaming child from a public place is NOT child abuse.

 

[iluvcarats]

Date: 11/27/2009 1:59:35 PM
Author: LtlFirecracker

Date: 11/26/2009 12:39:50 PM

Author: Mara

'And by the way, in today's PC world, your reaction to your son at Toys R Us would probably earn you a call to Child Protective Services from a 'concerned citizen' and possibly 15 minutes of fame on CNN as they replay the surveillance tape over and over again. '



___________



I don't think we are QUITE there yet, thank GOD!! My Mom did this countless times to me when I was misbehaving (often) in stores...I'd get taken out to the car for a talking to or we'd just leave. Unless the parent is totally manhandling the child, then I'd hope pulling a screaming kid off the floor and out of the store would hopefully not be met by a call to CPS! If so, we are never leaving the house again!

Removing a screaming child from a public place is NOT child abuse.

Of course not. It is the RIGHT thing to do. But it also depends on the way in which you remove them. I have witnessed frustrated parents forcefully removing kids in anger, and it just escalates the problem. Are screaming and yelling, yanking and dragging really the best way to handle the situation? By all means remove them, but do it calmly. There are definitely people out there who will call you on it, whether taken out of context or not. As this thread illustrates, everyone has an opinion how one should raise and discipline kids (even if they don't have any).

 

[LtlFirecracker]

Of course anything can be taken too far....

I remember my mother doing that to me when I threw a fit at McDonalds as a toddler....it worked.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

An adult misbehaving is quite different than a child. I thought of this thread today when flying (again) with my toddler she threw a 15 min. screamfest and was actually one of the BETTER kids on the flight. People around me were very kind and understanding. There was a baby on the back that was crying/screaming very loudly but that''s life. People around us slept through it so I think with all the white noise it is easier to tune it out than people realize.

 

[diamondfan]

I flew home from Mexico once, in first class, after a LONG day with my own three kids, up at the crack, delays in the airport in Mexico etc, only to have a little girl who was 5 or 6 years old, SCREAM AT THE TOP OF HER LUNGS without cessation for the entire flight which was 5 hours or so. I am NOT exaggerating. The mom and dad felt so terrible and she was not ill prior to the flight, and she supposedly never acted this way, had flown many times...once we landed and were in customs and immigration she was still not totally calmed down...and I was frankly concerned...nothing calmed her at all, each parent took turns with her and tried so many things, and it was such strong screaming, not wailing or sniffling but really full on...it was frustrating and worrisome at the same time...and was jarring too...I got off that plane and felt battered...and I know the parents felt so bad about it. No one quite knew what to do.

 

[AdiS]

Date: 11/25/2009 11:38:04 PM
Author: glitterata
Parents should teach their children to behave themselves in public places. Nobody should have to put up with screaming brats past toddler age.

Infants are different. Screaming is the only way they can communicate their pain. However, the infant who screams for eight hours on an airplane because the air pressure is hurting his sensitive inner ears should not be on that plane, not just because his screaming annoys other passengers, but because the poor thing is in pain. If you have an infant who screams in agony for hours on end on airplanes, don''t take him on an airplane until he''s old enough to be able to bear it. Do you really want to torture your baby?

Ditto.

I can deal with a crying baby - there''s just nothing you can do about it. A raging, screaming 5-year-old, kicking the seats, roaring foul words and throwing stuff around them - that''s something entirely different. That''s just the parent''s fault 98% of all cases and we all know it.

Btw, my mom used to drag me out of stores, cafes, etc. until i got the lesson - no tantrums in public places. I don''t feel manhandled.