Screaming kids on commercial flights

[kenny]

Should we just tolerate screaming kids on a jet, where we can't just walk out?
Who's wrong here?
The parents of the screaming kid or the passengers who can't accept that kids are hard to control?

Story

Partial snip:

Alittle late in making those Thanksgiving flight plans?
Wondering how you could possibly afford your ticket -- that is, without putting a kidney up for sale on Craigslist?
Good news!
You can get a free flight home on Southwest plus a $300 travel voucher.
Just do what I plan to -- get on a Southwest flight in the next few days, and when it's taking off, shout over and over, "Go, plane, go!" and "I want Daddy! I want Daddy!"

Pamela Root got the free flight and the voucher, plus an apology from Southwest, after her 2-year-old kept screaming those things at the top of his little lungs as their San Jose-bound flight was about to take off.
In fact, little Adam reportedly screamed so loudly that the safety announcements couldn't be heard and the pilot turned the plane back to the gate in Amarillo, Texas, where the two were booted off.

Root was appalled when a flight attendant told her something to the effect of "We just can't tolerate that [screaming] for two hours," reported the San Jose Mercury News. Root insisted Adam would be "fine once we take off" -- which, in my book, means either "He'll be fine" or "It would be a serious pain in the butt to be stuck in Amarillo another day."

Unbelievably, Root demanded the apology she eventually got from the airline (shame, shame, Southwest) and hit it up for the cost of diapers and the portable crib she says she had to buy for the overnight stay.
Even more unbelievably, there's still no word of any apology from Root to the other passengers.

There is a notion, reflected in numerous blog comments about the incident, that other passengers should "just deal" and "give a kid a break."
This notion is wrong.
Parents like Root and others who selfishly force the rest of us to pay the cost of their choices in life aren't just bothering us; they're stealing from us.
Most people don't see it this way, because what they're stealing isn't a thing we can grab on to, like a wallet.
They're stealing our attention, our time and our peace of mind.

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Well there are times when it''s just impossible to quiet a child (and the parents are trying, it''s just not working). It is annoying but I can''t blame them in those cases. However, when a parent makes no effort to make a child behave or stop crying or whatever, that''s different (IMO anyway).

Unless it''s someone directly next to me, I can deal - I''ll keep my earphones in while taking off (player off of course) to muffle the sound and then just crank up the volume the rest of the flight. I had to travel with my two kittens in the cabin a few days ago and I felt awful when one of them kept crying during take-off and intermittently throughout the flight. It made me a bit more sensitive to parents who try to calm their children but don''t entirely succeed.

 

[Skippy123]

I was on a flight recently where a 2 or 3 year old screamed the whole time at the top of her lungs. It was awful but I felt for the mother because she tired her hardest to console the child. Sometimes children are overly exhausted and too stimulated by the sounds of the aircraft and the people around them so they can't sleep, etc. Also they are not adults and don't think and behave like adults; their frontal lobes aren't fully developed, so what can you do. Yes, it can suck for the passengers but it isn't their fault. I have sympathy for the parents and the child because I am sure it wasn't a picnic for the mom either. Honestly I feel that article does not give enough information and is extremely one sided. eta: I do not have children

 

[Lilac]

I was on a 12 hour flight from Israel to New York with my father, stepmother, and siblings a couple years ago. My little brother was around a year old at the time and he screamed for 11 of the 12 hours on the plane. Screamed at the top of his lungs for 11 hours straight.

My stepmom and father tried everything - they tried rocking him, feeding him, changing him, walking up and down the aisles with him, giving him toys, giving him Benadryl, holding him close and talking to him, etc etc etc. My stepmom tried EVERYTHING she could think of to calm him down, but he wouldn''t stop screaming.

I''m sure the other passengers on the plane hated our whole family for this, but honestly, I felt the worst for my stepmom - by the time we got off the plane she was crying and I thought she was going to have a nervous breakdown. She was so mentally, physically, and emotionally exhausted from the whole flight and trying to calm him down and feeling sorry for him and for all the other passengers and I just felt so bad for her. Sometimes there''s nothing parents can do - it''s unfortunate for the unlucky passengers who happen to be on the plane with the screaming child, but it''s not always the parents'' fault if their child won''t stop screaming or crying.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

You can't predict when a kid will start screaming, so you would just have to ban kids from flying, and that's just not practical (or nice).

However, if a child's screaming is posing a safety hazard to the rest of the passengers (i.e. screaming so loudly that nobody would be able to hear the pilot, even in an emergency), then I can see how that would be a problem. Don't really know what you could do about it though. Do they make muffles for babies? I realize they look inhumane and mean, but I bet you could invent a perfectly safe muffle to put on a baby to dampen the noise to a safe level. lol.

ETA:

Haha! http://ebtx.com/mech/babymuff.htm

 

[Ara Ann]

Lots of kids can also have inner ear issues that could cause pain (could be the cause of some of the screaming kids on flights, maybe not the case in obnoxious behavior)...even motion sickness could be a factor for some.

It''s not like you can buy a guarantee with your plane ticket that you, as a passenger will have a perfectly comfortable and peaceful flight! I mean, what if the adult next to you had horrible BO, or was passing gas, or got drunk and became rude, or if someone with motion sickness threw up next to you? There are all kinds of scenarios for unpleasant flights...to blame bad experiences on crying kids and their parents, if the kids are truly inconsolable is not fair, IMO. Who knows why they are traveling to begin with? Perhaps to a funeral, or to see someone who is ill? Would it be alright to bump a crying kid if it meant the family would miss something like that?

Everyone seems to put their own comfort and feelings ahead of others...we have become very selfish on the whole and it''s not a positive thing.

 

[Cehrabehra]

whatever - some people don''t get it and that''s fine, they can complain all they want. When I hear a screaming kid I feel sorry for its parents because I''m sure they''re embarrassed and frustrated. Of course it''s not ideal but the pampered pansies who cannot deal with reality can keep dreaming.

 

[purrfectpear]

I''m good for about 30 minutes of crying/screaming and then I''m done. I don''t really care why you are flying, find another way to get there or find some drugs to sedate the little screamer. You wouldn''t tolerate my dog barking for the entire flight.

I am a parent.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 11/24/2009 6:22:54 PM
Author: Ara Ann
Lots of kids can also have inner ear issues that could cause pain (could be the cause of some of the screaming kids on flights, maybe not the case in obnoxious behavior)...even motion sickness could be a factor for some.


It''s not like you can buy a guarantee with your plane ticket that you, as a passenger will have a perfectly comfortable and peaceful flight! I mean, what if the adult next to you had horrible BO, or was passing gas, or got drunk and became rude, or if someone with motion sickness threw up next to you? There are all kinds of scenarios for unpleasant flights...to blame bad experiences on crying kids and their parents, if the kids are truly inconsolable is not fair, IMO. Who knows why they are traveling to begin with? Perhaps to a funeral, or to see someone who is ill? Would it be alright to bump a crying kid if it meant the family would miss something like that?


Everyone seems to put their own comfort and feelings ahead of others...we have become very selfish on the whole and it''s not a positive thing.

I recently took a cat to GA and when I made my flight arrangement I said, "what if someone is allergic to cats" and they said, "That''s their responsibility to arrange with their physician". Just a heads up. So yeah - they don''t guarantee you''re going to be comfortable - heck, just look at the seats! If people want to insure quiet they can bring noise canceling headphones with music and/or earplugs. Personal Responsibility. Discomfort doesn''t cost you.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 11/24/2009 6:29:37 PM
Author: purrfectpear
I''m good for about 30 minutes of crying/screaming and then I''m done. I don''t really care why you are flying, find another way to get there or find some drugs to sedate the little screamer. You wouldn''t tolerate my dog barking for the entire flight.


I am a parent.

Glad all you have there is your opinion.

 

[ericad]

There will always be kids on planes, in theaters, restaurants, etc. who disturb others either due to reasons out of the parents'' control or because of behavioral problems, lack of discipline, etc. Sometimes the kids are truly well-behaved kids who are having a bad day.

We first flew with our daughter when she was 20 months old, from Seattle to London, non-stop. We intentionally scheduled a night flight so that she''d be sleepy, brought along myriad activities, books, toys, a portable DVD player with her favorite movies, etc. At first she was super good and curious and excited. But she wouldn''t eat anything. Then the sleepiness and hunger set in and she had a lengthy meltdown. I was horrified and kept her in the back of the plane, as far away from the other passengers as I could manage. We still got many, many, many dirty withering looks. There was zero sympathy for me or my miserable child.

There were other kids her age scattered throughout the flight and I remember thinking how wonderful it would have been if we had all been seated together, lol, to inflict less damage to the majority of passengers and to offer each other distraction and moral support!

And for what it''s worth, our daughter had a wonderful flight back - not a peep out of her. She was a dream, people were talking to her, smiling at her, commenting on her great behaviour. Happy children are welcome, but disgruntled children need not apply!

We also took a non-stop flight to Paris this year (age 4) and she was perfectly behaved both ways, although on the outbound flight she had a crotchety elderly lady in front of her and every time I would adjust her tray or take things in/out of the seat pocket the lady would spin around and hiss at her to stop kicking the seat (which she wasn''t doing!) So we switched seats and the next time she spun around in her seat to scold my daughter she had my smiling face staring back at her

But back to the point - what would be a non-discriminatory solution? Family-friendly seating section on flights? Adult-only seating section on flights? This wouldn''t offend me one bit. I''m curious what other solutions we can come up with - there has to be a happy medium (believe me, I was annoyed as can be this one time on a flight back from Texas the toddler next to me sat on MY lap the entire flight home. It was either that or he screamed. So I took one for the team and held him while his dad sat next to me apologizing, lol.)

 

[Lilac]

Date: 11/24/2009 6:29:37 PM
Author: purrfectpear
I''m good for about 30 minutes of crying/screaming and then I''m done. I don''t really care why you are flying, find another way to get there or find some drugs to sedate the little screamer. You wouldn''t tolerate my dog barking for the entire flight.

I am a parent.

So parents should drug and sedate their 6 month old baby if he cries for more than a half hour on a flight?

And there''s a difference between a dog and a baby - if you need to go somewhere, you can leave a dog at home and have someone come check on him to feed/walk/play with him a few times a day. You can''t leave a 6 month old baby at home with someone just to come by and check on him every once in a while. I don''t see how you can even compare a baby crying to a dog barking on a plane.

And yes, I do love dogs and have had two adorable ones.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Hehe, the more I read here, the more I''m convinced there''s a gold mine waiting for someone who can invent a safe baby-muffle.

 

[iluvcarats]

We were all kids once. I'm sure that we all had a tantrum at some point that annoyed somebody.
Maybe give your mom a call Kenny. She just may have some stories which will make you more empathetic

 

[April20]

I fly A LOT and have been seated next to my fair share of screaming children. When children are small, I can tolerate the screaming much, much better than when they are older and know exactly what they are doing. I bugs me to no end when older children are allowed to be terrors with no response from their parents.

I was on a Southwest flight from Chicago to Dallas with a stop in Kansas City a couple months ago. The flight was delayed a couple hours and took off L.A.T.E. I was one of the last on the plane and ended up in the back behind a row of three children. While I applaud the parents for putting them in the back, I have a huge issue with the fact that they then chose to sit in another row and left their children all but unsupervised. The children pushed the call buttons, didn''t stay in their seats- even when taking off and landing, up they were walking around- they screamed, etc. These children were 4ish, 6ish and maybe 8ish. Old enough to behave and certainly too young to be left unsupervised. When the plane stopped in KC, I moved as far away from those children as I could. It was a hellish experience.

 

[charbie]

Date: 11/24/2009 6:29:37 PM
Author: purrfectpear
I''m good for about 30 minutes of crying/screaming and then I''m done. I don''t really care why you are flying, find another way to get there or find some drugs to sedate the little screamer. You wouldn''t tolerate my dog barking for the entire flight.


I am a parent.

+1. But I''m not a parent. However, my parents growing up simply did not tolerate tantrums in public. It just didn''t happen. My parents didn''t beat us, they just did not let us carry on kicking and screaming.

I understand there are reasons kids aren''t comfortable on a plane. However, if they aren''t able to behave properly, I tthink it is the parents burden to figure out how to control their children or not take them on a plane.

 

[kenny]

Date: 11/24/2009 6:29:37 PM
Author: purrfectpear
find some drugs to sedate the little screamer. .

..

 

[Cehrabehra]

erica - I know that was annoying, but how flattering in a way lol

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 11/24/2009 6:46:53 PM
Author: charbie

Date: 11/24/2009 6:29:37 PM

Author: purrfectpear

I'm good for about 30 minutes of crying/screaming and then I'm done. I don't really care why you are flying, find another way to get there or find some drugs to sedate the little screamer. You wouldn't tolerate my dog barking for the entire flight.



I am a parent.

+1. But I'm not a parent. However, my parents growing up simply did not tolerate tantrums in public. It just didn't happen. My parents didn't beat us, they just did not let us carry on kicking and screaming.


I understand there are reasons kids aren't comfortable on a plane. However, if they aren't able to behave properly, I tthink it is the parents burden to figure out how to control their children or not take them on a plane.

When you have kids you will undestand. Sometimes there is just NOTHING you can do with a little kid when they are upset. An older kid? Yes it's the parents' fault. A little kid though can't communicate with you.

I have two young kids and I do everything I possibly can to get them to stop crying if they are upset in public. I also remove them from the situation whenever possible; but that just isn't possible on an airplane. So I personally feel bad for the parents who are trying to do anything they can to stop a small crying baby/child.

I only get really pissed off when a parent is just sitting there ignoring the kid and not doing anything. That IMO is worthy of being kicked off. But if the parent is doing their best to quiet the child then yes it's irritating, but you'll survive.

And really PP-I don't think you are the kind of parent most people would aspire to. What would your son think of you equating him to your dog? Nice.

 

[ericad]

But sometimes kids have flown fine in the past, but have a bad day and as a parent you just can''t see it coming. Sometimes it''s the first time the child has been on a plane, so no way to know how he/she will react. It''s a complicated matter, not all airplane meltdowns are examples of bratty kids or poor parenting.

It''s also more difficult to parent and discipline effectively while on a plane, and babies under the age of 2 are a wild card anyway. My mom tells me about a flight she took with my brother when he was a toddler. He screamed for hours so finally the attendant put them in 1st class because that section was empty, so score 1 for mom! But she flew with me since I was a toddler and tells me I was a perfect citizen every time. Same parenting, but kids with two very different temperaments.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 11/24/2009 6:46:53 PM
Author: charbie

Date: 11/24/2009 6:29:37 PM

Author: purrfectpear

I''m good for about 30 minutes of crying/screaming and then I''m done. I don''t really care why you are flying, find another way to get there or find some drugs to sedate the little screamer. You wouldn''t tolerate my dog barking for the entire flight.



I am a parent.

+1. But I''m not a parent. However, my parents growing up simply did not tolerate tantrums in public. It just didn''t happen. My parents didn''t beat us, they just did not let us carry on kicking and screaming.


I understand there are reasons kids aren''t comfortable on a plane. However, if they aren''t able to behave properly, I tthink it is the parents burden to figure out how to control their children or not take them on a plane.

"control their children"? You know, I had the perfect first child and she was so well trained and I bragged left and right that I didn''t have to childproof my house because I had house proofed my child and sure enough she was a dream, obedient etc.

Then I had kid #2 and all the skill in the world couldn''t prepare me for him.

Now, I join this conversation as a sympathetic advocate of parents because I understand. I have flown across oceans with my children and I have had babies on planes and all I can do is thank the stars that I have never had an issue myself on a plane - but when I see a baby crying there is not a single thought in my head that the child is out of control. The child is COPING the only way it knows how. A bratty 4 year old is NOT the same thing as a baby or toddler in discomfort. By 4 you have introduced consequences but at 2 only some children understand that, certainly not all, and it has nothing to do with parenting ability. Most of it is just luck of the draw, temperament of the child, unfortunate circumstances.

I will never grasp why some people are so self centered.

 

[ericad]

Date: 11/24/2009 6:48:43 PM
Author: Cehrabehra
erica - I know that was annoying, but how flattering in a way lol

LOL, it really was kind of sweet, until I realized I couldn''t have a cup of coffee for fear of burning him. No one comes between me and my coffee...

 

[Ara Ann]

Date: 11/24/2009 6:56:29 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 11/24/2009 6:46:53 PM

Author: charbie

Date: 11/24/2009 6:29:37 PM


Author: purrfectpear


I''m good for about 30 minutes of crying/screaming and then I''m done. I don''t really care why you are flying, find another way to get there or find some drugs to sedate the little screamer. You wouldn''t tolerate my dog barking for the entire flight.




I am a parent.

+1. But I''m not a parent. However, my parents growing up simply did not tolerate tantrums in public. It just didn''t happen. My parents didn''t beat us, they just did not let us carry on kicking and screaming.



I understand there are reasons kids aren''t comfortable on a plane. However, if they aren''t able to behave properly, I tthink it is the parents burden to figure out how to control their children or not take them on a plane.

''control their children''? You know, I had the perfect first child and she was so well trained and I bragged left and right that I didn''t have to childproof my house because I had house proofed my child and sure enough she was a dream, obedient etc.


Then I had kid #2 and all the skill in the world couldn''t prepare me for him.


Now, I join this conversation as a sympathetic advocate of parents because I understand. I have flown across oceans with my children and I have had babies on planes and all I can do is thank the stars that I have never had an issue myself on a plane - but when I see a baby crying there is not a single thought in my head that the child is out of control. The child is COPING the only way it knows how. A bratty 4 year old is NOT the same thing as a baby or toddler in discomfort. By 4 you have introduced consequences but at 2 only some children understand that, certainly not all, and it has nothing to do with parenting ability. Most of it is just luck of the draw, temperament of the child, unfortunate circumstances.


I will never grasp why some people are so self centered.

Well said!

 

[charbie]

I''m not saying sedate the kid, but a parent should get to the root of the problem. I had awful motion sickness as a child. My parents knew this, and therefore provided me with medications or natural solutions for my stomach to remain calm. And dramamine contains ingredients that make you drowsy. And I also understand that an infant is all together different. But I don''t think it was irrational for the family to be removed.

 

[Haven]

DH and I have already decided that we won't fly with our future children until they are old enough to behave. I would feel awful if my child screamed non-stop on an airplane, and I don't want to put myself in the position of being incredibly rude to strangers if I can help it. I know you can't help it if the baby is going to scream, but we can help whether we get on the plane with the baby.

I'm not saying this is the solution for everyone, but I would be mortified to be *that* parent.

ETA: I should share that we decided this after flying with DH's brother's family from Chicago to New York, and back. Our 2-year-old nephew screamed the entire flight, both ways, and was completely inconsolable. It was awful. And my SIL is an older parent, so all of the other passengers thought he was my child, so they directed their angry stares and comments towards me. Everyone here (on PS) sounds so accommodating, but IRL, people get irritated, and then they get angry.

 

[musey]

There were some obnoxious kids on the last flight I took. When we landed, the parents said to the surrounding passengers, "we''re so sorry for the noise, hope it wasn''t too awful." A woman seated in the row in front of them said, "no worries, most of us will be or have been there at some point in our lives."

I thought that was perfectly put.

Yes, I do get annoyed when babies are too loud... but I also understand that, in most cases, it''s much more upsetting to the embarrassed parent trying everything they can think of (with no luck) than it is to the annoyed fellow passenger a row or ten back.

 

[decodelighted]

I bet there''d be a big market for "adult only" airlines! Could save the flagging industry!

 

[Cehrabehra]

I had to fly on a plane with my 5 year old and an infant to get to my mom before she died, I''m not sure you can really say you''ll ''never'' do it. Exceptions exist in every corner of our lives.

Again - bring noise canceling headphones if you are one of those people who dream of duct tape. Own your own obsession.

 

[musey]

Date: 11/24/2009 7:07:35 PM
Author: Haven
DH and I have already decided that we won''t fly with our future children until they are old enough to behave. I would feel awful if my child screamed non-stop on an airplane, and I don''t want to put myself in the position of being incredibly rude to strangers if I can help it. I know you can''t help it if the baby is going to scream, but we can help whether we get on the plane with the baby.

I''m not saying this is the solution for everyone, but I would be mortified to be *that* parent.

You say that now...

I know I''d hate to be that parent as well, but I''d also hate to be the parent that gets "stuck" not being able to visit family and friends, making everyone come to US, because we can''t fly. Lots of people fly with their babies and if my observations are at all accurate, the majority of babies/children don''t cause major problems on planes. I don''t want to get stuck to a driving-distance bubble just because I have little ones.

 

[kenny]

Date: 11/24/2009 7:12:27 PM
Author: decodelighted
I bet there''d be a big market for ''adult only'' airlines! Could save the flagging industry!

There also may be a big market for airlines that only allow passengers that fit in their seat, instead of overflowing into yours.