Sarah, about lawschool.

[luckyfish]

hi sarah-- i''m a 3L about to graduate in a little over a week, just thought i''d throw in my two cents... hope you don''t mind!

i think you''re ahead of the game in the sense that you really know you want to be a lawyer, and it''s a decision that you''ve chewed on and thought about for so long. i''ve come across a lot of people who started law school because they really didn''t know what they wanted to do after undergrad, and a JD seemed like a good degree because it''s so applicable in so many different fields. these people are the ones that usually end up being miserable during 1L. not that others aren''t miserable, but the people who don''t know why they''re in law school are the ones that really HATE the whole experience. the fact that you''ve exposed yourself to so many law-related experiences already and that you have genuinely enjoyed them bodes well, i think, for your law school career.

on another note-- a word of caution. not sure what you''re interested in doing with your law degree, but law schools tend to be intensely competitive places, and when on-campus recruiting starts during your second year, it''s all about who got what interviews with which firms and then it turns into who got what offers for summer associate positions. it''s really tempting to let this define your success as a law student/future lawyer EVEN IF a big firm job is not what you went to law school for. i started law school knowing that i wanted to be a public defender and had (have!) no interest in big firms whatsoever, but even i struggled a lot with this when my class started recruiting. the easiest way to validate your success is to look at how much $$ you''re bringing in, but just remember that this is not the only way, nor the best way. disclaimer: this is not to say that there''s anything wrong with working for a big firm if that''s what''s right for you... just don''t let it define you.

also, when people say 1L sucks, i think there''s the tendency to think that it really sucks because all you do is study. for me, this was only partially true. i actually thought that academically, 1L was easier because all i had to do was study. 2L and 3L were harder in the sense that there was so much more to juggle-- externships, law review, moot court, clinic, etc. etc. but 1L sucked for me because it was like going back to high school-- i took all the same classes with the same group of people, and everyone was super competitive and super catty. i had one girl ask me everyday how many hours i had studied the night before, and then at the end of our first semester, she asked me every single one of my grades and then CALCULATED MY GPA. this is how crazy law school can make some people. so my best advice for 1L is, enjoy the experience, find a good group of friends who will genuinely be happy for you when you do well and will genuinely want to help you when you''re struggling, and then don''t engage in the rest of the pettiness.

GYPSY: your description of your classmates ("Hi, Tom, Harvard.") had me cracking up. it seems law schools are filled with people like this. one guy in my section actually said to a large group of people, "i can''t believe i''m the only one in our section who went to an ivy league." 1) he wasn''t-- there were plenty of other people who had; and 2) nobody asked him!

 

[alli_esq]

Date: 5/8/2008 6:18:35 PM
Author: Octavia

(#$& *%&#& #$%&#$& *$%&#@$&

I am so jealous of those of you who have no more law school finals ever.

must pass Constitutional Law, must pass Constitutional Law...must sign off PS and finish the *$%& exam

(don''t worry, it''s a 3-day, open-everything-except-discussing-the-questions-with-other-people exam, I''m not hacking ExamSoft or anything!)

sidenote: Octavia, don''t you find it somewhat paradoxical that you have a three-day take-home CONSTITUTIONAL LAW exam? Considering I believe that is the CRUELEST and most INHUMAN punishment there is???

 

[FacetFire]

Date: 5/8/2008 6:14:04 PM
Author: Future Mrs Polka Dot

Date: 5/8/2008 6:08:20 PM
Author: FacetFire
As another law school graduate on PS, I thought I''d chime in with some of my experiences and lessons learned. I went to a top ten law school thinking that I should do as I was told and go to the best law school I got into. And I can honestly say that I regret it. Here''s why:

I worked in recruiting for a top law firm in DC and I can tell you that we took as many students from local good schools as we did from top 10 national schools. The law firms here like the local schools, as do the law firms in most cities. So, if you know what market you want to work in FOR SURE, then go to a school in that area and don''t worry if it''s not a top ten school. Just do well.

I would have been able to go to a slightly lesser law school and receive money from them resulting in less money out of my pocket and fewer loans That would have been VERY nice! I totally agree with Gypsy...look at the package offered to you, don''t just go blindly to the best school you get into like I did.

I am not even practicing law. That may seem like an obvious reason that I regret spending the money to go to a top school, but the real reason that I mention it is because I HIGHLY recommend working for a year or two between undergrad and law school. I thought I wanted to be a lawyer, so I went to law school. So did a lot of people at my school. And I can''t tell you how many people I know from law school who, now only two years out, are not practicing law or doing anything even remotely related to law.

Don''t get me wrong, I am glad I have my law degree. However, I really wish I had taken a better financial package and gone to a lower-ranked school to get it.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. I hope that at least some of it may be helpful! Good luck, Sarah!

Facet, what line of work are you in now? I''m so curiious! I am planning to practice law for at least two years or so, but I''m always interested in a good exit plan and hearing what others are doing!

Ha-ha, you''ll laugh at me. Mine is not a normal path.

I am in the process of trying to become a professional photographer. About five months ago, I started to realize that I had a passion for photography. I don''t know why I didn''t notice before...probably because I was so focused on becoming a lawyer or something else that my parents thought I should be. But it feels so good to have found my passion...I was beginning to think that I would just hate every job I had for the rest of my life.

But a lot of the people I went to school with are getting into politics, consulting, teaching, research, and one is even becoming a TV chef! So there really is no limit to what you can do after law school. Don''t get me wrong, though...many are still practicing at firms and planning to stay.

 

[Future Mrs Polka Dot]

Date: 5/8/2008 6:26:53 PM
Author: FacetFire

Date: 5/8/2008 6:14:04 PM
Author: Future Mrs Polka Dot

Date: 5/8/2008 6:08:20 PM
Author: FacetFire
As another law school graduate on PS, I thought I''d chime in with some of my experiences and lessons learned. I went to a top ten law school thinking that I should do as I was told and go to the best law school I got into. And I can honestly say that I regret it. Here''s why:

I worked in recruiting for a top law firm in DC and I can tell you that we took as many students from local good schools as we did from top 10 national schools. The law firms here like the local schools, as do the law firms in most cities. So, if you know what market you want to work in FOR SURE, then go to a school in that area and don''t worry if it''s not a top ten school. Just do well.

I would have been able to go to a slightly lesser law school and receive money from them resulting in less money out of my pocket and fewer loans That would have been VERY nice! I totally agree with Gypsy...look at the package offered to you, don''t just go blindly to the best school you get into like I did.

I am not even practicing law. That may seem like an obvious reason that I regret spending the money to go to a top school, but the real reason that I mention it is because I HIGHLY recommend working for a year or two between undergrad and law school. I thought I wanted to be a lawyer, so I went to law school. So did a lot of people at my school. And I can''t tell you how many people I know from law school who, now only two years out, are not practicing law or doing anything even remotely related to law.

Don''t get me wrong, I am glad I have my law degree. However, I really wish I had taken a better financial package and gone to a lower-ranked school to get it.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. I hope that at least some of it may be helpful! Good luck, Sarah!

Facet, what line of work are you in now? I''m so curiious! I am planning to practice law for at least two years or so, but I''m always interested in a good exit plan and hearing what others are doing!

Ha-ha, you''ll laugh at me. Mine is not a normal path.

I am in the process of trying to become a professional photographer. About five months ago, I started to realize that I had a passion for photography. I don''t know why I didn''t notice before...probably because I was so focused on becoming a lawyer or something else that my parents thought I should be. But it feels so good to have found my passion...I was beginning to think that I would just hate every job I had for the rest of my life.

But a lot of the people I went to school with are getting into politics, consulting, teaching, research, and one is even becoming a TV chef! So there really is no limit to what you can do after law school. Don''t get me wrong, though...many are still practicing at firms and planning to stay.

Facet, that is so awesome! I love that you followed something you truly loved! How exciting! It''s nice that you (and your friends) were able to recognize that you''re unhappy with being a lawyer and move into something that you actually like. My biggest fear is getting stuck at a law firm and not having the guts to get out.

I''m pretty set on being a lawyer, but unfortunately the type of law I want to do is not what I''m doing immediately. I''m really interested in public intererst (and maybe policy) but to pay back my lovely loans, I''m heading to biglaw land. Kind of sad

All the more reason to take everyone''s advice and consider scholarship options rather than just going to the best school you get into. Don''t get me wrong, I love my school and it has opened tons of doors with regard to biglaw land, and probably should i pursue fed government stuff in the future. The name does help. But I do often wonder if I could have achieved some of the same things by going to a school that would have given me a lot more money! Sigh....

 

[CNOS128]

Date: 5/8/2008 6:25:27 PM
Author: alli_esq

sidenote: Octavia, don''t you find it somewhat paradoxical that you have a three-day take-home CONSTITUTIONAL LAW exam? Considering I believe that is the CRUELEST and most INHUMAN punishment there is???

Total 8th Amendment violation. And I thought my 8-hr Con Law exam was bad.

Erm, my advice to anyone thinking about law school is "DON''T GO!"
But after my last exam of my first year is over tomorrow, I''ll probably say Gypsy gave great advice that the most important thing is to keep up and constantly review. And be prepared to give up your social life for awhile.
My friends don''t get why I was studying over "spring break."

There are some good books you can pick up about how to prepare for your first year, also. I have 2 of them -- want ''em?

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 5/8/2008 5:57:34 PM
Author: Future Mrs Polka Dot


Gypsy - I am so interested to hear how you moved into your in house position (the dream job of all of us 3Ls who are about to go slave away at biglaw for a few years...) Did you start at a big firm first? I am going to be in DC as well, at a firm, but am interested in making that transition...any advice would be appreciated!

I didn't follow a traditional career path FMPD-- or even one close to a traditional one, in large part I got my job because of networking. Networking is your best friend for a new job- especially in house.

One of my good friends worked at a BIGLaw firm for 4 years.
Then started interviewing at companies that a) had been her clients b) her clients referred her to. Networking.
Got a Job at a fortune 100 company in house.
Is happier, but not that happy. I hear the boutique is the way to go.

Another friend worked at a firm, large regional firm, but not BIGlaw international like my other friend
Was a member of her local women lawyers association. Got a few referrals for in house positions, inteviewed got the position.
Worked there for a couple of years. Then went to a boutique firm.

Two of my cousins worked BIGlaw IP.
Quit BIGlaw started their own private practice.
They are very happy.

If you talk to... I THINK the placement agency name is Majors and Africa, they are very helpful in answering question about how to get in house. I've referred people over to them to talk, and you know what... most of their placement counselors are really nice and helpful. But honestly, most of those jobs are filled even before they are posted, because of networking. There is another good book (again not positive about the title) Guerrilla Tactics for Getting the Legal Job of your dreams, maybe?

I worked as a temp, did mass tort doc review, kept getting promoted (litigation), worked terrible hours. Interviewed here, never heard back. Got a permanent job. Got a call out of the blue for this job in house VERY soon thereafter (so soon I wonder if I should keep the other on me resume). Had NO, and I MEAN NO Contract experience.I was lucky cause they wanted an attorney, didn't mind training one in contracts. No attorney was involved in my hiring process here, so I got lucky, if someone had closely quetioned me, I wonder if I would have gotten this job. I knew nothing but what I had frantically learned from friend and family lawyers, and books (there are a couple of really good contract drafting books out there) and on the net. Learned fast though. Now I'm looking at other jobs, and have the experience to back it up-- and I am being interviewed by fellow attorneys. It's been a strange road. Humbling, but I like my job.


ETA: I forgot to add that I worked two years as the legal advisor for a university at their urban planning school as a researcher and legal advisor for their projects. That was another networking referrence. I'm good at researching got along great with the chair who interviewed me, was hired.

 

[FrekeChild]

Alli, what made you decide to do family law?

I''m not a law student, nor will I ever be one, but my dad is a lawyer and has been for almost 50 years (He''s old.) And he''s a family law attorney who went to Notre Dame (way back when dinosaurs roamed the earth) for a combined undergrad/law degree that he got in 5 years. As I said, this was back before running water and all... Now that he''s been in it for so long he loves to get new attorneys (like a year or two out of school) into his office and teach them. A few have stuck around for their entire careers and some have come back to his firm after years of trying to make it on their own. I worked for him for about a year total, and its hard to do. I can''t even go into how hard it is to go through that emotional stress every day of dealing with people who just aren''t happy.

So my advice from being a receptionist in a family law firm, from being a career changer in general and being the daughter of an attorney, work in it first. Get a taste of what the life is like. I didn''t do that with any of my career choices, and I regret it deeply.

As for my dad''s and my relationship, I hardly saw my dad for most of my early life. I screamed and cried like he was a stranger when he''d try to get me into the car to go places. Now all he asks about is school and I''m basically getting a BA to make him and my mom happy.

Like FacetFire kind of referred to, it''s one of those jobs that you don''t really know what it''s like until you''re in it.

And I feel bad about my school path because he always wanted to pass his firm on to one of his kids. I am his last hope, and there is no way I will ever go to law school. Sorry dad.

You can always come to UNM for law school Sarah!! link!

Sorry for the random disjointed post...

 

[alli_esq]

Date: 5/8/2008 7:07:44 PM
Author: FrekeChild
Alli, what made you decide to do family law?


I'm not a law student, nor will I ever be one, but my dad is a lawyer and has been for almost 50 years (He's old.) And he's a family law attorney who went to Notre Dame (way back when dinosaurs roamed the earth) for a combined undergrad/law degree that he got in 5 years. As I said, this was back before running water and all... Now that he's been in it for so long he loves to get new attorneys (like a year or two out of school) into his office and teach them. A few have stuck around for their entire careers and some have come back to his firm after years of trying to make it on their own. I worked for him for about a year total, and its hard to do. I can't even go into how hard it is to go through that emotional stress every day of dealing with people who just aren't happy.


So my advice from being a receptionist in a family law firm, from being a career changer in general and being the daughter of an attorney, work in it first. Get a taste of what the life is like. I didn't do that with any of my career choices, and I regret it deeply.


As for my dad's and my relationship, I hardly saw my dad for most of my early life. I screamed and cried like he was a stranger when he'd try to get me into the car to go places. Now all he asks about is school and I'm basically getting a BA to make him and my mom happy.


Like FacetFire kind of referred to, it's one of those jobs that you don't really know what it's like until you're in it.


And I feel bad about my school path because he always wanted to pass his firm on to one of his kids. I am his last hope, and there is no way I will ever go to law school. Sorry dad.


You can always come to UNM for law school Sarah!! link!


Sorry for the random disjointed post...

Ah, that's great advice, Freke! I've read about your feelings about your dad's practice in other posts you've had--it seems like you had a very hard time at that firm, and who could blame you? It's incredibly difficult emotional stuff. Certainly not everyone wants to work in an environment like that.

I agree that it's VERY VERY important to at least make an attempt working in the field before you begin your practice. I have worked exclusively with family law issues since I started law school (two domestic violence non-profits, three matrimonial firms), and although the subject matter is, of course, very emotional, that's what I personally love about it.

For me, it was between social work and law school. I find that this particular field blends the two in a very unique way. I am VERY interested in alternative dispute resolution and also in courtroom litigation--family law integrates all of the different kinds of legal practice that I enjoy. Especially in New York, family law is a very controversial and ever-changing field legally, and I find that exciting.

I have and know I will continue to deal with people during one of the most trying times in their lives, and I truly believe that I can help them. I have been lucky enough to work for lawyers thus far who do not unfairly take advantage of their clients' vulnerable states, and truly want to help get them out of conflicted situations as quickly, efficiently and painlessly as humanly possible. There are many people who just want to FIGHT it out, and that cannot always be completely avoided--but as a professional, you can always try.

ETA: Also, my brother was adopted, so I have a personal interest in adoption in general...and I also would like to work with some same-sex couples to help with estate-planning/same-sex agreements/custody, etc....

sorry, I'm out of it. damn paper that I've not been writing.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 5/8/2008 7:18:45 PM
Author: alli_esq

Date: 5/8/2008 7:07:44 PM
Author: FrekeChild
Alli, what made you decide to do family law?

I''m not a law student, nor will I ever be one, but my dad is a lawyer and has been for almost 50 years (He''s old.) And he''s a family law attorney who went to Notre Dame (way back when dinosaurs roamed the earth) for a combined undergrad/law degree that he got in 5 years. As I said, this was back before running water and all... Now that he''s been in it for so long he loves to get new attorneys (like a year or two out of school) into his office and teach them. A few have stuck around for their entire careers and some have come back to his firm after years of trying to make it on their own. I worked for him for about a year total, and its hard to do. I can''t even go into how hard it is to go through that emotional stress every day of dealing with people who just aren''t happy.

So my advice from being a receptionist in a family law firm, from being a career changer in general and being the daughter of an attorney, work in it first. Get a taste of what the life is like. I didn''t do that with any of my career choices, and I regret it deeply.

As for my dad''s and my relationship, I hardly saw my dad for most of my early life. I screamed and cried like he was a stranger when he''d try to get me into the car to go places. Now all he asks about is school and I''m basically getting a BA to make him and my mom happy.

Like FacetFire kind of referred to, it''s one of those jobs that you don''t really know what it''s like until you''re in it.

And I feel bad about my school path because he always wanted to pass his firm on to one of his kids. I am his last hope, and there is no way I will ever go to law school. Sorry dad.

You can always come to UNM for law school Sarah!! link!

Sorry for the random disjointed post...

Ah, that''s great advice, Freke! I''ve read about your feelings about your dad''s practice in other posts you''ve had--it seems like you had a very hard time at that firm, and who could blame you? It''s incredibly difficult emotional stuff. Certainly not everyone wants to work in an environment like that.

I agree that it''s VERY VERY important to at least make an attempt working in the field before you begin your practice. I have worked exclusively with family law issues since I started law school (two domestic violence non-profits, three matrimonial firms), and although the subject matter is, of course, very emotional, that''s what I personally love about it.

For me, it was between social work and law school. I find that this particular field blends the two in a very unique way. I am VERY interested in alternative dispute resolution and also in courtroom litigation--family law integrates all of the different kinds of legal practice that I enjoy. Especially in New York, family law is a very controversial and ever-changing field legally, and I find that exciting.

I have and know I will continue to deal with people during one of the most trying times in their lives, and I truly believe that I can help them. I have been lucky enough to work for lawyers thus far who do not unfairly take advantage of their clients'' vulnerable states, and truly want to help get them out of conflicted situations as quickly, efficiently and painlessly as humanly possible. There are many people who just want to FIGHT it out, and that cannot always be completely avoided--but as a professional, you can always try.

ETA: Also, my brother was adopted, so I have a personal interest in adoption in general...and I also would like to work with some same-sex couples to help with estate-planning/same-sex agreements/custody, etc....

sorry, I''m out of it. damn paper that I''ve not been writing.

Alli- I think it is amazingly awesome of you to want to work with same sex couples for adoption. I was also adopted (yay for dad''s connections!)so I know all about that side of it.

Honestly I think a lot of my emotional stress that came from working there was having to deal with my direct boss, the office manager-who reminds me of Gypsy''s boss.

Also, the office politics were difficult to deal with. I think most of the other staff was shielded from the politics because they didn''t go home to listen to it every night, but I was very much in the middle of it. And with my dad and some shareholders on one side and his office manager and other shareholding attorneys on the other and with me under direct control of the Office witch-I had to take whatever cards she dealt to me on a daily basis. And when she was P-ed at my dad-I had to take it.

So I''m sure that had a lot to do with it. But having to answer the phone and try to talk to a guy whose wife has disappeared with their kids or a woman whose husband has just left her after being together for 20 years-it doesn''t make the workplace any better. Especially those women who were absolutely inconsolable...which there were plenty of, on a daily basis. It was hard.

So a note to all of you future attorneys out there-your staff doesn''t exactly have it easy either-so don''t take your stress out on them! (I''m sure I didn''t need to say that, but just in case Office Witch is out there lurking...)

I also think it''s great that you want to for the reasons you do. Helping people is a great reason, making loads of cash-not so much. My dad started out working at a general practice, but when his first wife dumped him on his head and took off with his kids to TN-and then he couldn''t get visitation to even SEE his kids, and the courts wouldn''t even consider custody. And there weren''t any family law attorneys around here at that point in time, his life fell apart, until he decided that he would step up to the plate and specialize in family law because he didn''t want anyone else to have to go through what he went through. Since then, everything turned around for him, he built a successful practice, and most days he enjoys what he does.

And so the bold part of your post makes me happy. Because I have seen first person, what he has done, and thats what I hear coming from you.

 

[scarlet16]

Date: 5/8/2008 6:26:53 PM
Author: FacetFire

Date: 5/8/2008 6:14:04 PM

Author: Future Mrs Polka Dot

Date: 5/8/2008 6:08:20 PM

Author: FacetFire

As another law school graduate on PS, I thought I''d chime in with some of my experiences and lessons learned. I went to a top ten law school thinking that I should do as I was told and go to the best law school I got into. And I can honestly say that I regret it. Here''s why:


I worked in recruiting for a top law firm in DC and I can tell you that we took as many students from local good schools as we did from top 10 national schools. The law firms here like the local schools, as do the law firms in most cities. So, if you know what market you want to work in FOR SURE, then go to a school in that area and don''t worry if it''s not a top ten school. Just do well.


I would have been able to go to a slightly lesser law school and receive money from them resulting in less money out of my pocket and fewer loans That would have been VERY nice! I totally agree with Gypsy...look at the package offered to you, don''t just go blindly to the best school you get into like I did.


I am not even practicing law. That may seem like an obvious reason that I regret spending the money to go to a top school, but the real reason that I mention it is because I HIGHLY recommend working for a year or two between undergrad and law school. I thought I wanted to be a lawyer, so I went to law school. So did a lot of people at my school. And I can''t tell you how many people I know from law school who, now only two years out, are not practicing law or doing anything even remotely related to law.


Don''t get me wrong, I am glad I have my law degree. However, I really wish I had taken a better financial package and gone to a lower-ranked school to get it.


Anyway, those are my thoughts. I hope that at least some of it may be helpful! Good luck, Sarah!

Facet, what line of work are you in now? I''m so curiious! I am planning to practice law for at least two years or so, but I''m always interested in a good exit plan and hearing what others are doing!

Ha-ha, you''ll laugh at me. Mine is not a normal path.

I am in the process of trying to become a professional photographer. About five months ago, I started to realize that I had a passion for photography. I don''t know why I didn''t notice before...probably because I was so focused on becoming a lawyer or something else that my parents thought I should be. But it feels so good to have found my passion...I was beginning to think that I would just hate every job I had for the rest of my life.

But a lot of the people I went to school with are getting into politics, consulting, teaching, research, and one is even becoming a TV chef! So there really is no limit to what you can do after law school. Don''t get me wrong, though...many are still practicing at firms and planning to stay.

Totally unrelated to the topic, but Facet, if it helps any, my photographer (who is AMAZING) actually went to law school as well before becoming a pro photographer. He''s SUPER SUPER sweet if you want his info!

 

[Future Mrs Polka Dot]

Date: 5/8/2008 7:03:40 PM
Author: Gypsy

Date: 5/8/2008 5:57:34 PM
Author: Future Mrs Polka Dot


Gypsy - I am so interested to hear how you moved into your in house position (the dream job of all of us 3Ls who are about to go slave away at biglaw for a few years...) Did you start at a big firm first? I am going to be in DC as well, at a firm, but am interested in making that transition...any advice would be appreciated!

I didn''t follow a traditional career path FMPD-- or even one close to a traditional one, in large part I got my job because of networking. Networking is your best friend for a new job- especially in house.

One of my good friends worked at a BIGLaw firm for 4 years.
Then started interviewing at companies that a) had been her clients b) her clients referred her to. Networking.
Got a Job at a fortune 100 company in house.
Is happier, but not that happy. I hear the boutique is the way to go.

Another friend worked at a firm, large regional firm, but not BIGlaw international like my other friend
Was a member of her local women lawyers association. Got a few referrals for in house positions, inteviewed got the position.
Worked there for a couple of years. Then went to a boutique firm.

Two of my cousins worked BIGlaw IP.
Quit BIGlaw started their own private practice.
They are very happy.

If you talk to... I THINK the placement agency name is Majors and Africa, they are very helpful in answering question about how to get in house. I''ve referred people over to them to talk, and you know what... most of their placement counselors are really nice and helpful. But honestly, most of those jobs are filled even before they are posted, because of networking. There is another good book (again not positive about the title) Guerrilla Tactics for Getting the Legal Job of your dreams, maybe?

I worked as a temp, did mass tort doc review, kept getting promoted (litigation), worked terrible hours. Interviewed here, never heard back. Got a permanent job. Got a call out of the blue for this job in house VERY soon thereafter (so soon I wonder if I should keep the other on me resume). Had NO, and I MEAN NO Contract experience.I was lucky cause they wanted an attorney, didn''t mind training one in contracts. No attorney was involved in my hiring process here, so I got lucky, if someone had closely quetioned me, I wonder if I would have gotten this job. I knew nothing but what I had frantically learned from friend and family lawyers, and books (there are a couple of really good contract drafting books out there) and on the net. Learned fast though. Now I''m looking at other jobs, and have the experience to back it up-- and I am being interviewed by fellow attorneys. It''s been a strange road. Humbling, but I like my job.


ETA: I forgot to add that I worked two years as the legal advisor for a university at their urban planning school as a researcher and legal advisor for their projects. That was another networking referrence. I''m good at researching got along great with the chair who interviewed me, was hired.

Thanks so much gypsy! This is really helpful advice. I will keep both that book and the placement firm in mind. It sounds like you''ve had such an interesting career path! It''s so nice to hear that you like what you are doing. And so interesting how you came about working in your current position. It sounds like things happen for a reason! I''m so glad it has worked out so well for you! It''s inspiring!

Ok, reluctantly signing off to study for evidence

 

[FacetFire]

Date: 5/8/2008 11:10:56 PM
Author: scarlet16

Date: 5/8/2008 6:26:53 PM
Author: FacetFire

Date: 5/8/2008 6:14:04 PM

Author: Future Mrs Polka Dot

Date: 5/8/2008 6:08:20 PM

Author: FacetFire

As another law school graduate on PS, I thought I''d chime in with some of my experiences and lessons learned. I went to a top ten law school thinking that I should do as I was told and go to the best law school I got into. And I can honestly say that I regret it. Here''s why:


I worked in recruiting for a top law firm in DC and I can tell you that we took as many students from local good schools as we did from top 10 national schools. The law firms here like the local schools, as do the law firms in most cities. So, if you know what market you want to work in FOR SURE, then go to a school in that area and don''t worry if it''s not a top ten school. Just do well.


I would have been able to go to a slightly lesser law school and receive money from them resulting in less money out of my pocket and fewer loans That would have been VERY nice! I totally agree with Gypsy...look at the package offered to you, don''t just go blindly to the best school you get into like I did.


I am not even practicing law. That may seem like an obvious reason that I regret spending the money to go to a top school, but the real reason that I mention it is because I HIGHLY recommend working for a year or two between undergrad and law school. I thought I wanted to be a lawyer, so I went to law school. So did a lot of people at my school. And I can''t tell you how many people I know from law school who, now only two years out, are not practicing law or doing anything even remotely related to law.


Don''t get me wrong, I am glad I have my law degree. However, I really wish I had taken a better financial package and gone to a lower-ranked school to get it.


Anyway, those are my thoughts. I hope that at least some of it may be helpful! Good luck, Sarah!

Facet, what line of work are you in now? I''m so curiious! I am planning to practice law for at least two years or so, but I''m always interested in a good exit plan and hearing what others are doing!

Ha-ha, you''ll laugh at me. Mine is not a normal path.

I am in the process of trying to become a professional photographer. About five months ago, I started to realize that I had a passion for photography. I don''t know why I didn''t notice before...probably because I was so focused on becoming a lawyer or something else that my parents thought I should be. But it feels so good to have found my passion...I was beginning to think that I would just hate every job I had for the rest of my life.

But a lot of the people I went to school with are getting into politics, consulting, teaching, research, and one is even becoming a TV chef! So there really is no limit to what you can do after law school. Don''t get me wrong, though...many are still practicing at firms and planning to stay.

Totally unrelated to the topic, but Facet, if it helps any, my photographer (who is AMAZING) actually went to law school as well before becoming a pro photographer. He''s SUPER SUPER sweet if you want his info!

Wow...really?!?! I would LOVE his info! It would be so nice to talk to another person who followed this odd career path. Thanks!!!!

 

[miraclesrule]

Sheesh, this thread is validating my decision to not only avoid law school, but avoid college altogether. My job already makes me pull my hair out...well, maybe not my job, but the lawyers.

Whatever you do, don''t get into tort law. You might have to deal with me.

I would love to have a law degree, but honestly, I have watched people transform into a completely different person after law school. I thought maybe they planted a chip in your brain or something equally sadistic like on Stepford Wives.

But most of you seem pretty darn normal, so maybe it''s just certain people.

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 5/8/2008 7:03:40 PM
Author: Gypsy

Date: 5/8/2008 5:57:34 PM
Author: Future Mrs Polka Dot


Gypsy - I am so interested to hear how you moved into your in house position (the dream job of all of us 3Ls who are about to go slave away at biglaw for a few years...) Did you start at a big firm first? I am going to be in DC as well, at a firm, but am interested in making that transition...any advice would be appreciated!

I didn't follow a traditional career path FMPD-- or even one close to a traditional one, in large part I got my job because of networking. Networking is your best friend for a new job- especially in house.

One of my good friends worked at a BIGLaw firm for 4 years.
Then started interviewing at companies that a) had been her clients b) her clients referred her to. Networking.
Got a Job at a fortune 100 company in house.
Is happier, but not that happy. I hear the boutique is the way to go.

Another friend worked at a firm, large regional firm, but not BIGlaw international like my other friend
Was a member of her local women lawyers association. Got a few referrals for in house positions, inteviewed got the position.
Worked there for a couple of years. Then went to a boutique firm.

Two of my cousins worked BIGlaw IP.
Quit BIGlaw started their own private practice.
They are very happy.

If you talk to... I THINK the placement agency name is Majors and Africa, they are very helpful in answering question about how to get in house. I've referred people over to them to talk, and you know what... most of their placement counselors are really nice and helpful. But honestly, most of those jobs are filled even before they are posted, because of networking. There is another good book (again not positive about the title) Guerrilla Tactics for Getting the Legal Job of your dreams, maybe?

I worked as a temp, did mass tort doc review, kept getting promoted (litigation), worked terrible hours. Interviewed here, never heard back. Got a permanent job. Got a call out of the blue for this job in house VERY soon thereafter (so soon I wonder if I should keep the other on me resume). Had NO, and I MEAN NO Contract experience.I was lucky cause they wanted an attorney, didn't mind training one in contracts. No attorney was involved in my hiring process here, so I got lucky, if someone had closely quetioned me, I wonder if I would have gotten this job. I knew nothing but what I had frantically learned from friend and family lawyers, and books (there are a couple of really good contract drafting books out there) and on the net. Learned fast though. Now I'm looking at other jobs, and have the experience to back it up-- and I am being interviewed by fellow attorneys. It's been a strange road. Humbling, but I like my job.


ETA: I forgot to add that I worked two years as the legal advisor for a university at their urban planning school as a researcher and legal advisor for their projects. That was another networking referrence. I'm good at researching got along great with the chair who interviewed me, was hired.

I am glad posted this info; I was curious too?

I was wondering what is the average life in working for a large law firm? I worked for a public accounting firm and their average work life is 3 year so I was wondering if it was the same for Large law firms??? Does working there give a person invaluable experience also? TIA

Interesting info

 

[SarahLovesJS]

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone else who responded and I will probably have a few more questions once I get to read everything. As it stands I am trying to study for my law history final tomorrow. So anyway, I will be back tomorrow!

 

[miraclesrule]

Good Luck Sarah!!!

Try to slip in a good massage next week. You work and study so hard. A little rejuvenation would be so yummy for you.

 

[diamondfan]

I wanted to go but did not as I was newly married and really wanted to get pregnant.

I would love to have gone, in hindsight, but it would not have worked in my plans for starting a family. Might revisit it someday when my kids are grown.

All of my friends who did go said the first year was awful and that they really are trying to weed out a huge number of the students. They want the best to continue on and they will do what they can to ensure it.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 5/9/2008 12:09:36 AM
Author: Skippy123
I am glad posted this info; I was curious too?

I was wondering what is the average life in working for a large law firm? I worked for a public accounting firm and their average work life is 3 year so I was wondering if it was the same for Large law firms??? Does working there give a person invaluable experience also? TIA

Interesting info

HI Skippy, the stats I read a few years ago said a large majority of lawyers work in firms for the first 4 years, but after that make a transition. Law school trains you in principles. Some classes, clinics, moot court, negotiation seminars, etc do give you practical experience, but honestly practice is where you learn the most useful stuff... you tend to learn theory and history in law school but practical application in practice. That also why internships in the summer are valuable. I wouldn''t say LARGE firms give the best experience though. In law world when you say LARGE you are usually talking about huge international law firms (BIGlaw), they certainly give you are great Pedigree and you get a lot of great experience. But that does not AT ALL mean that you can''t work for a one of the larger or mid-sized national or regional firms and get great experience and training as well. Or even a smaller firm, although many smaller firms hire laterals not as many new grads, I believe. Another way to get a great Pedigree (and something BIGlaw firms look for, is clerkships. You get out of lawschool and go clerk for a judge the higher ranking the better for a year or even two), that''s something that really boosts youre resume BIGtime. And publications, your law journals etc are good for providing you those resume boosters while you are still in school.

 

[Octavia]

Date: 5/8/2008 6:53:56 PM
Author: TheBigT

Date: 5/8/2008 6:25:27 PM

Author: alli_esq


sidenote: Octavia, don't you find it somewhat paradoxical that you have a three-day take-home CONSTITUTIONAL LAW exam? Considering I believe that is the CRUELEST and most INHUMAN punishment there is???

Total 8th Amendment violation. And I thought my 8-hr Con Law exam was bad.

Now that I've turned it in and can reply, all I can say is that my teacher is sadistic. Adding insult to injury...one of the questions WAS about 8th Amd. violations.

 

[scarlet16]

Date: 5/8/2008 11:42:47 PM
Author: FacetFire

Date: 5/8/2008 11:10:56 PM

Author: scarlet16

Date: 5/8/2008 6:26:53 PM

Author: FacetFire

Date: 5/8/2008 6:14:04 PM


Author: Future Mrs Polka Dot

Date: 5/8/2008 6:08:20 PM


Author: FacetFire


As another law school graduate on PS, I thought I''d chime in with some of my experiences and lessons learned. I went to a top ten law school thinking that I should do as I was told and go to the best law school I got into. And I can honestly say that I regret it. Here''s why:



I worked in recruiting for a top law firm in DC and I can tell you that we took as many students from local good schools as we did from top 10 national schools. The law firms here like the local schools, as do the law firms in most cities. So, if you know what market you want to work in FOR SURE, then go to a school in that area and don''t worry if it''s not a top ten school. Just do well.



I would have been able to go to a slightly lesser law school and receive money from them resulting in less money out of my pocket and fewer loans That would have been VERY nice! I totally agree with Gypsy...look at the package offered to you, don''t just go blindly to the best school you get into like I did.



I am not even practicing law. That may seem like an obvious reason that I regret spending the money to go to a top school, but the real reason that I mention it is because I HIGHLY recommend working for a year or two between undergrad and law school. I thought I wanted to be a lawyer, so I went to law school. So did a lot of people at my school. And I can''t tell you how many people I know from law school who, now only two years out, are not practicing law or doing anything even remotely related to law.



Don''t get me wrong, I am glad I have my law degree. However, I really wish I had taken a better financial package and gone to a lower-ranked school to get it.



Anyway, those are my thoughts. I hope that at least some of it may be helpful! Good luck, Sarah!

Facet, what line of work are you in now? I''m so curiious! I am planning to practice law for at least two years or so, but I''m always interested in a good exit plan and hearing what others are doing!

Ha-ha, you''ll laugh at me. Mine is not a normal path.

I am in the process of trying to become a professional photographer. About five months ago, I started to realize that I had a passion for photography. I don''t know why I didn''t notice before...probably because I was so focused on becoming a lawyer or something else that my parents thought I should be. But it feels so good to have found my passion...I was beginning to think that I would just hate every job I had for the rest of my life.

But a lot of the people I went to school with are getting into politics, consulting, teaching, research, and one is even becoming a TV chef! So there really is no limit to what you can do after law school. Don''t get me wrong, though...many are still practicing at firms and planning to stay.

Totally unrelated to the topic, but Facet, if it helps any, my photographer (who is AMAZING) actually went to law school as well before becoming a pro photographer. He''s SUPER SUPER sweet if you want his info!

Wow...really?!?! I would LOVE his info! It would be so nice to talk to another person who followed this odd career path. Thanks!!!!

Sure...you can contact him through his website, 5 West Studios, and his name is Spencer Lum. Tell him Audrey recommended talking to him.

 

[CNOS128]

Date: 5/9/2008 1:24:28 PM
Author: Octavia


Now that I''ve turned it in and can reply, all I can say is that my teacher is sadistic. Adding insult to injury...one of the questions WAS about 8th Amd. violations.

Con law professors are all sadistic (in my opinion). People can''t - they just can''t! -- read 400 pages of Supreme Court rambling in one night. And no one should have to.

The good news is I''m not a 1L anymore as of this morning, and reflecting on the past year, it doesn''t seem so bad -- so I''d say as long as you''re prepared to work hard (Sarah and others who are thinking about it) -- go for it. Then you, too, can say things like "indefeasibly vested remainder" and "promissory estoppel" and sort-of know what you''re talking about.

 

[hisdiamondgirl]

Date: 5/9/2008 12:27:51 PM
Author: Gypsy

Date: 5/9/2008 12:09:36 AM
Author: Skippy123
I am glad posted this info; I was curious too?

I was wondering what is the average life in working for a large law firm? I worked for a public accounting firm and their average work life is 3 year so I was wondering if it was the same for Large law firms??? Does working there give a person invaluable experience also? TIA

Interesting info

HI Skippy, the stats I read a few years ago said a large majority of lawyers work in firms for the first 4 years, but after that make a transition. Law school trains you in principles. Some classes, clinics, moot court, negotiation seminars, etc do give you practical experience, but honestly practice is where you learn the most useful stuff... you tend to learn theory and history in law school but practical application in practice. That also why internships in the summer are valuable. I wouldn''t say LARGE firms give the best experience though. In law world when you say LARGE you are usually talking about huge international law firms (BIGlaw), they certainly give you are great Pedigree and you get a lot of great experience. But that does not AT ALL mean that you can''t work for a one of the larger or mid-sized national or regional firms and get great experience and training as well. Or even a smaller firm, although many smaller firms hire laterals not as many new grads, I believe. Another way to get a great Pedigree (and something BIGlaw firms look for, is clerkships. You get out of lawschool and go clerk for a judge the higher ranking the better for a year or even two), that''s something that really boosts youre resume BIGtime. And publications, your law journals etc are good for providing you those resume boosters while you are still in school.

I just thought I''d add my $.02. I am a third year litigation associate at a biglaw firm in NYC and I definitely agree that the *big* law firms do not give the best experience, and in fact, you have to be really lucky, or really good at kissing a$$ to really get ANY relevant experience in the first three years here (at least in litigation, it might be different in corporate). So for me, so far, I have just been focusing on making my resume look pretty to try to open up as many opportunities for my future as I can (I also clerked for a judge before starting at the firm so that definitely helps too). Have I learned more or even as much as my friends in the DA''s office or small law firms, heck no, but will I have more options in what I do next, definitely!

 

[SarahLovesJS]

luckyfish Thank you for the info! Wow that girl was intense that calculated your GPA. Ahh I see about the cattiness, it makes sense. I will try to stay on my guard and just not let people being dorks get to me.
Ocatvia So glad your final is over!!

Facet Fire Definitely helpful, and thank you!!
Future Mrs Polka Dot I am sorry you aren''t going to be doing what you want to do right away!

It''ll work out. Can you do one of the govt programs that helps pay off your loans?
TheBigT You''re now a 2L, yaaay!

Frekechild Aww thanks Freke!!

I don''t know if I am ready to move that far away from my family though...and my dog..oh and FI of course.

miraclesrule Haha, let''s hope I can stay normal, too! And man you know I''ve never had a pro massage other than when I get used to get as part of physical therapy on my back? Sounds like fun, maybe my Mom and I can go get one somewhere!
diamondfan DF thank you for chipping in! No reason why you couldn''t go when your kids are grown, I agree!
hisdiamondgirl Just wanted to say thank you for adding!

I think I got everyone. Thanks again! I am really excited to finally be in my last year of college (as of 4:47 this afternoon) and ready to apply. Only decision left is whether to apply early decision to the school I really want to go to. It''d cut out the scholarship opportunities, but it''d give me a better chance since I know it''s where I want to go. Oh well, we''ll see. Thanks again!