sapphire lovers

[dianabarbara]

Dear ladies,

after debating on whether or not to get sarahbear's gorgeous aqua up for sale, I have decided that at very least before investing more in jewelry I should take a look again at the pics of what my family owns already to calm up these shopping instincts. In the folder, I have also found a picture of a ring I rememberd only superficially (last time I saw it in person was maybe 10 years ago).

Knowing very little about sapphires, I thought I could ask for your guidance on how to evaluate a sapphire (especially in terms of color and tone). Also, ragarding this ring and others, is it possible to guess an approximate carat weight from a picture, if the stone is set and the ring size is known?

 

[dianabarbara]

forgot to attach the picture

 

[dianabarbara]

also, I forgot to mention this ring was made somewhere in the early 60s or late 50s.

Can this tell anything about whether the stone was treated or not?

 

[SB621]

Read this-----> [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/[/URL]

You can't tell treatment by a photo. You will need a lab report. That is the only way to know exaclty what you have.

As far as the photo the sapphire looks inky-black/blue so it is not a high end sapphire and probably has little $$ value. They are commonly found in jewelry stores and mall stores. The market has been flooded with snythetics and heavily treated sapphires farther back then most people think. So while you have a lovely family ring it is not worth much in regards to the gemstone.

In regards to size, colored stones should not be judged by carat weight like diamonds, so just have a jeweler meaure the LxWxD and that will tell you what you need to know in regards to size.

Sorry for the quick reply! Inbetween meetings!

 

[SB621]

For reference I'm attaching a pic of a sapphire ring owned by another PSer. This is just for color, saturation and tone reference but the difference is much more obvious between this ring and your ring.

 

[dianabarbara]

Hi Sarahbear, thanks for the info and for linking the post above.

I'm not really concerned with the monetary value, but rather curious to learn something about this ring.
And also still thinking about your aqua and scanning the web for a ring setting I'd love to see it in. The temptation is strong, so I hope someone snaps it up soon!!

Should anybody have in mind other sources of info or have comments, please post back!!

 

[chrono]

Unfortunately, none can tell you whether it is treated or untreated by the photo. Heating of corundum began way back since Roman times. Diffusion is fairly new but has been around for several decades. A lab can test and check for treatment, as a good gemmologist with the right equipment and experience too. Without any measurements (length and width in mm), I cannot even guess the carat weight.

 

[dianabarbara]

Hi Chrono, thank you!

fascinating.. I had no clue romans were already usine these techniques. Often, visiting museums I had the impression that their technique with gold was much more advanced as compared with they could do with gemstones.

I don't know how accurate the info in this website is, but should anybody come across this thread and be interested in evaluating a sapphire, this page looks helpful: http://www.ruby-sapphire.com/r-s-bk-prices.htm

anyways, since I don't know whether the stone was treated and its (and the trilliants') carat weight, I guess I'll follow your suggestion, Chrono, and take it for a professional appraisal

 

[dianabarbara]

another helpful page http://www.professionaljeweler.com/archives/articles/1998/aug98/0898fys2.html

here, they seem to suggest that heating an overly dark stone could give it a brighter, more vivid color.

should the ring's stone be untreated, would this be something you'd recommend in this specific case?

 

[LD]

Richard Hughes is an expert so the page you found (Ruby-Sapphire) is a great tutorial.

To find out the carat weight if you can accurately measure the length, width and depth then I can give you a guestimate of how many carats it may be. It looks to be quite big maybe around 5-7ct BUT pictures can be deceptive. As Sarahbear has already said, unfortunately the colour is not considered "top" and sapphires this colour can be found fairly easily. Even if it hasn't been treated, the value won't be great. Where the value lies in this piece is the sentimental value and the lovely diamond trilliant sides (if they are indeed diamonds). If they are, they look to be a good size.

Overall the ring looks to be well made and if you like darker stones this is one to wear and love.

 

[dianabarbara]

Hi LD!

thanks for your post

the side stones are certainly diamonds, and very white and clean. And as you say, I love wearing it!! So absolutely no intention to sell it from my side. Also with respect to the carat weight, I agree with you. I cannot measure the stone, as at the moment is not at home with me, but I think it compares well to one found online.

it's maybe unwise to judge from pics, but this to me looks fairly similar.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ESTATE-4-75CT-FINE-BRIGHT-BLUE-BRILLIANT-OVAL-SAPPHIRE-AND-TRILLION-DIAMOND-RING-/221115189308?pt=US_Fine_Rings&hash=item337b7e083c

4.75 carats sapphire and 0.90 carats in diamonds

I have never insured jewelry, but the price of the ring above is making me think whether I should consider to get this insured.
As you mention, the monetary value is probably not great. As Chrono suggested, an appraisal will be necessary. But in the meantime, what could be a possible ballpark for the value of the ring?

 

[dianabarbara]

pic of the ebay ring

 

[michellechan2211]

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/heating-of-corundum-an-investment.181271/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/heating-of-corundum-an-investment.181271/[/URL]

I went to find the thread where someone mentioned treating for potentially increasing the value of sapphire (aka the clarity and color since those are typically associated with value of a colored gem, which is what I assume you want to improve here). I believe the general consensus was that it was not advisable, and since this is a stone of great sentimental value, I suppose you wouldn't want anything to go wrong during the heating/treating process (If you so decided to heat/treat it).

 

[LD]

Please don't try and compare carat weight with pictures - it's impossible as you don't know the depth. Also, if you look, yours is an elongated oval and the one on Ebay is much more rounded - when you're assessing carat weight you'd be surprised at how different that might make the end result!

In terms of heating the stone to improve it - please don't even bother going down this route. If it could have been done, it would have been done at the point the stone was being cut (or before). Have a read of the thread that MichelleChan posted above and you'll see a mine of information of that subject.

MichelleChan - if you notice the poster never returned! I suspect this is because the process either ruined the stones altogether or there was little or no improvement.

 

[michellechan2211]

LD- I am not following that particular thread, but I did remember it and linked it for OPs reference. I hope that even if the stones were destroyed/not improved/very improved, the poster will return to tell us the results- it'll be good reference! (Also, please call me Michelle XP)

And OP, I'm seconding LD on this- its not possible to access carat weight by pictures. Plus its hard to get a sense of the scale when photos are enlarged.

 

[minousbijoux]

I think the ebay ring is ridiculously overpriced. There is no way that ring is near anywhere near that price! Look what he wrote for the stone: "typically enhanced." Whatever!

 

[chrono]

My guess is that if the stone could be heated to improve the colour, it is likely to have already been heated. My guess is that the side diamonds might be worth more the the sapphire. In any case, since it's yours, you might as well wear and enjoy it.

 

[dianabarbara]

michelle, thanks for posting the link!! it was very very helpful!

and LD, I agree, I won't compare pictures for guessing carat weight, and heating sounds like a bad idea now that I know more about it.

thanks a lot for your suggestions

 

[dianabarbara]

minous, this might very well be the case. it's good to know!

and chrono, I have to agree on both points. if the sapphire is not of great quality, the side diamonds certainly are and I do enjoy a lot wearing it from time to time (is this a mahenge in your avatar? what a color!!!! )

 

[SB621]

I personally wouldn't bother insuring it especially since it has more sentimental value then anything else. I'm guessing if you tried to sell that ring on the market now you might get $200 or $250 (best guestimate without knowing more about the diamonds).

As already stated I wouldn't try to heat the sapphire. I would just accept you have a lovely family heirloom and not try to change anything about it.

 

[dianabarbara]

Hi sarabear. thanks for your comment. In my personal opinion, 250 is a much too low estimate. it is platinum and the two side diamonds are large and really high color and clarity. Anyways, this does not matter to me, I was asking just out of curiosity. This ring comes from a larger collection of beautiful jewelery passed down by my grandmother, and I will enjoy it and preserve it in its entirety for future generations.

 

[LD]

Hi sarabear. thanks for your comment. In my personal opinion, 250 is a much too low estimate. it is platinum and the two side diamonds are large and really high color and clarity. Anyways, this does not matter to me, I was asking just out of curiosity. This ring comes from a larger collection of beautiful jewelery passed down by my grandmother, and I will enjoy it and preserve it in its entirety for future generations.

Just a comment on value. The value is really only in the platinum and diamonds. So people would buy this for the setting but not for the sapphire I suspect. Jewellery on the pre-owned market is horrendous in that you very rarely get the "value" or "worth" back. Typically if you recoup 50% of the value, you'd be lucky. Let's say each of the diamonds are .30 of a carat and it's got 4g of platinum, if you search you can find a cost for this. If I speak personally, if I wanted this setting but not the sapphire, I would probably pay $500 on the pre-owned market but not more.

For insurance purposes, value is determined in a slightly different way. You add all the components up (ie how much it would cost to buy new) and then add a % on for making up the ring from scratch. If you over-insure you pay hefty premiums so appraisals for insurance need to be reasonably accurate. I always get worried when people want to determine the worth of their jewellery because this is such an emotive subject. You can go to 3 different appraisers and get wildly differing values!

For me, your ring is priceless because it has been passed down from your grandmother and you will enjoy it. That's EXACTLY what makes jewellery valuable in my eyes and it doesn't get any better than that!

 

[dianabarbara]

Hi sarabear. thanks for your comment. In my personal opinion, 250 is a much too low estimate. it is platinum and the two side diamonds are large and really high color and clarity. Anyways, this does not matter to me, I was asking just out of curiosity. This ring comes from a larger collection of beautiful jewelery passed down by my grandmother, and I will enjoy it and preserve it in its entirety for future generations.

Just a comment on value. The value is really only in the platinum and diamonds. So people would buy this for the setting but not for the sapphire I suspect. Jewellery on the pre-owned market is horrendous in that you very rarely get the "value" or "worth" back. Typically if you recoup 50% of the value, you'd be lucky. Let's say each of the diamonds are .30 of a carat and it's got 4g of platinum, if you search you can find a cost for this. If I speak personally, if I wanted this setting but not the sapphire, I would probably pay $500 on the pre-owned market but not more.

For insurance purposes, value is determined in a slightly different way. You add all the components up (ie how much it would cost to buy new) and then add a % on for making up the ring from scratch. If you over-insure you pay hefty premiums so appraisals for insurance need to be reasonably accurate. I always get worried when people want to determine the worth of their jewellery because this is such an emotive subject. You can go to 3 different appraisers and get wildly differing values!

For me, your ring is priceless because it has been passed down from your grandmother and you will enjoy it. That's EXACTLY what makes jewellery valuable in my eyes and it doesn't get any better than that!

Hi LD thanks for checking back in and for your kind words.

I had no clue that jewelry would depreciate so much on the second hand market, especially because from a quick search here on PS I have seen higher quotes for one single trilliant of comparable size and quality. I also often see simpler used settings up for sale for much higer prices.. but this doesn't say anything about how they sell I should check the used market more frequently!!

more importantly, I completely hear you on the last sentences

 

[LD]

Hi sarabear. thanks for your comment. In my personal opinion, 250 is a much too low estimate. it is platinum and the two side diamonds are large and really high color and clarity. Anyways, this does not matter to me, I was asking just out of curiosity. This ring comes from a larger collection of beautiful jewelery passed down by my grandmother, and I will enjoy it and preserve it in its entirety for future generations.

Just a comment on value. The value is really only in the platinum and diamonds. So people would buy this for the setting but not for the sapphire I suspect. Jewellery on the pre-owned market is horrendous in that you very rarely get the "value" or "worth" back. Typically if you recoup 50% of the value, you'd be lucky. Let's say each of the diamonds are .30 of a carat and it's got 4g of platinum, if you search you can find a cost for this. If I speak personally, if I wanted this setting but not the sapphire, I would probably pay $500 on the pre-owned market but not more.

For insurance purposes, value is determined in a slightly different way. You add all the components up (ie how much it would cost to buy new) and then add a % on for making up the ring from scratch. If you over-insure you pay hefty premiums so appraisals for insurance need to be reasonably accurate. I always get worried when people want to determine the worth of their jewellery because this is such an emotive subject. You can go to 3 different appraisers and get wildly differing values!

For me, your ring is priceless because it has been passed down from your grandmother and you will enjoy it. That's EXACTLY what makes jewellery valuable in my eyes and it doesn't get any better than that!

Hi LD thanks for checking back in and for your kind words.

I had no clue that jewelry would depreciate so much on the second hand market, especially because from a quick search here on PS I have seen higher quotes for one single trilliant of comparable size and quality. I also often see simpler used settings up for sale for much higer prices.. but this doesn't say anything about how they sell I should check the used market more frequently!!

more importantly, I completely hear you on the last sentences

Unfortunately buying a new trilliant diamond and getting one already in a setting is a completely different ball game Let's just say you went into a jewellers and wanted to buy a 0.25ct trilliant E-F and SI1 for example, you could pay anywhere between $250-350 (less or more depending on the jeweller). A pair might cost you $500. However, put them in jewellery and try to sell the setting and automatically you've lost a good proportion of the $500. Even try selling a pair of trilliants loose and you're limited because you need to find somebody willing to buy the exact colour/clarity and then they need to fit the setting (or idea) of the buyer! There are so many variables.

Jewellery very rarely increases in value irrespective of age because markets increase/decrease and the market is littered with pre-owned pieces so competition is fierce which drives down the price. Good for buyers, pants for sellers. The only time jewellery MAY increase is if you have a top quality example of a very rare stone.

 

[dianabarbara]

LD, thank you so much for the info! I really appreciate your help

I love jewelry and gems, but I'm just starting out with getting some education, so I'm very thankful for all the advice and all the knowledge that other PSers can offer. There is so much to learn, and this just excites me

 

[chrono]

Picture posted from the Tucson thread to show that even treated sapphires can be rather dark. You can see that these are fairly large. Pricing included to give you an idea of it's cost.

 

[SB621]

Hi sarabear. thanks for your comment. In my personal opinion, 250 is a much too low estimate. it is platinum and the two side diamonds are large and really high color and clarity. Anyways, this does not matter to me, I was asking just out of curiosity. This ring comes from a larger collection of beautiful jewelery passed down by my grandmother, and I will enjoy it and preserve it in its entirety for future generations.

Just a comment on value. The value is really only in the platinum and diamonds. So people would buy this for the setting but not for the sapphire I suspect. Jewellery on the pre-owned market is horrendous in that you very rarely get the "value" or "worth" back. Typically if you recoup 50% of the value, you'd be lucky. Let's say each of the diamonds are .30 of a carat and it's got 4g of platinum, if you search you can find a cost for this. If I speak personally, if I wanted this setting but not the sapphire, I would probably pay $500 on the pre-owned market but not more.

For insurance purposes, value is determined in a slightly different way. You add all the components up (ie how much it would cost to buy new) and then add a % on for making up the ring from scratch. If you over-insure you pay hefty premiums so appraisals for insurance need to be reasonably accurate. I always get worried when people want to determine the worth of their jewellery because this is such an emotive subject. You can go to 3 different appraisers and get wildly differing values!

For me, your ring is priceless because it has been passed down from your grandmother and you will enjoy it. That's EXACTLY what makes jewellery valuable in my eyes and it doesn't get any better than that!

Yup as LD just stated unfortunatley resale value for jewelry is pretty bleak so I really doubt my best estimate is off by that much. Unfortunately I purchased many things over the last 4 years that I just don't wear and have been selling it off over the last few months so I know from first hand experience how *not* fun the secondary market has been.

I'm curious though since you set this was part of a set what the other pieces look like or if you know when the set was made? I have several pieces from my mother that have been handed down to me. They aren't worth a lot of $$$, but it was fun to research where the items came from and who made them. It just makes them more emotional valueable in my eyes.

 

[dianabarbara]

uuh! apologies, life got crazy busy (it´s paper submission time for researchers) and I somehow lost track of this discussion.

regarding the age of the ring: some of the pieces came from my grand/grand mother, and are def much older than this, but this specific one was picked by granny sometimes in the 50s or very early 60s from an Italian jeweler.

there are absolutely no papers with it, but I am pretty sure it was new when it was bought.

was this a design that got more popular around that era? from what I have seen deco rings tend to make larger use of baguettes or other cuts, but I can´t recall a deco with trilliants

I´ll be home again sometime in April for an important birthday, and will try to take measurements of the stones )and try it on again!! ) in that occasion

me and my BF are postponing our engagement since a few months for very valid reasons, and my crave for bling is getting a bit out of control