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rough diamnond certification?

rory1983

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 20, 2011
Messages
6
Ive got a question for anybody who can help me...i have obtained a collection of stones and in that collection are 3 rough diamonds. i recieved no certification or Kimberly papers with the diamonds and was told by the seller that no papers can be found. This person obtained them from their grandfather whom was a worlt traveler and claimed they were obtained befoire 1941 when no real processis were implimented in rough diamonds. i was told all 3 are african diamonds and i was considering selling them but was told by a different jeweller that i would need certification papers to sell them legally. does anybody know how i could obtain such papers/certifications?
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
9,015
You need papers to import them legally. Since they're in your posession now, I presume they've already been imported. I don't think there's a avenue that you can legally issue new KPC paperwork on rough stones as an individual but if you've got credible provenance to show that they've been in the country since before 2002 I think you'll be safe with the taxman. What potential customers want is up to them but there are plenty of buyers who I think will be willing to work with you if the price is right.
 

rory1983

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 20, 2011
Messages
6
ok, thats what i was hoping to find out. im still not sure though about showing proof of import date because these came to me in a collection of stones from my friends grandfather who passed away recently and the family wasnt at all knowledgable on that situation and ive since asked for any and all documentation but was informed the family just threw away almost everything that they didnt think was important and was unaware of the need for papers and certification. Would you possibly have and leads on whom may want these diamonds? there is a 7 carat white, an 8 carat white, and an 11 carat yellow/brown. the 7 carat white has few inclusions adn they are all whole diamond crystals, unchipped, but the opther white has noticable internal cleaving and the yellow does have a good amount of inclusions. i had them appraised and was told this the clean 7 carat white up to 500 a ct- the cleaved white around 125 a ct- and the 11 ct yellow around 150 a ct...i could travel around new england to show them or get pics out to people who may be interested if this is okayt for me to do and legal, i dont want to get into any trouble trying to sell them though if theres any aspect that could be considered illegal, might you have and advice or know persons interested? and thank you very much for the information and advice, your experience in this matter is greatly appreciated.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
9,015
rory1983|1313938924|2995655 said:
ok, thats what i was hoping to find out. im still not sure though about showing proof of import date because these came to me in a collection of stones from my friends grandfather who passed away recently and the family wasnt at all knowledgable on that situation and ive since asked for any and all documentation but was informed the family just threw away almost everything that they didnt think was important and was unaware of the need for papers and certification. Would you possibly have and leads on whom may want these diamonds? there is a 7 carat white, an 8 carat white, and an 11 carat yellow/brown. the 7 carat white has few inclusions adn they are all whole diamond crystals, unchipped, but the opther white has noticable internal cleaving and the yellow does have a good amount of inclusions. i had them appraised and was told this the clean 7 carat white up to 500 a ct- the cleaved white around 125 a ct- and the 11 ct yellow around 150 a ct...i could travel around new england to show them or get pics out to people who may be interested if this is okayt for me to do and legal, i dont want to get into any trouble trying to sell them though if theres any aspect that could be considered illegal, might you have and advice or know persons interested? and thank you very much for the information and advice, your experience in this matter is greatly appreciated.
If your appraiser told you what it was 'worth', they should have also told you want the marketplace is. You chose and hired them to give you expert advice so I would start there. Not to second guess an appraiser I don't know but skill at evaluating uncut diamonds is a decidedly unusual thing. May I ask how you found someone to appraise these items?
 

rory1983

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 20, 2011
Messages
6
yes, i was at the springfield gem show and asked two different mineral distributors who specialized in larger uncut diamonds if they could tell me what they thought the diamonds could be worth and both had the same consensus on price of each of the three diamonds. Both of the dealers are well known and also both advertise and are well recognized within the mineral community. unfortunately they had both stated that since they sell internationally the wouldnt feel comfortable buying and selling my uncertified diamonds because they thought to export to different countries without paperwork could cause issues and thet diamonds could be siexed by customs.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
9,015
Be aware that there are importantly different definitions of 'value'. What they would ask for something, what they would really expect it to sell something for, what they would pay you for it and what they think someone else might pay you for it under some other set of circumstances are very different questions with possibly very different answers. ''3 out of 3 dealers surveyed' is not an appraisal but if you do decide to get one, ask your sales market questions. They're right that customs is the problem, and it's not just US customs. Exporting them is asking for trouble.
 

rory1983

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 20, 2011
Messages
6
well if i was to have them polished and cutould it be legal for me to send out to a cutter without certifications? also, wouldnt i possibly end up losing out on the overall value due to loss of weight in cutting?
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
17,044
There are only import restrictions.
Not ownership, unless the diamonds were indeed smuggled.

The value of rough is the value of the polished plus cost of polishing plus risk / margin factor.
You will probably pay more than most manufacturers to do the polishing, and it will involve effort. But there may be better rewards.
 
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