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Richard Homer Yellow Sapphire

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Brandytab

Rough_Rock
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Oct 23, 2008
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Hi - I''m not sure if I ever posted on here, but I started lurking a while ago and registered sometime in the fall. This forum is amazing!

That said, I''ve run into a problem and I''m wondering here if anyone could advise me somehow.

After reading thread after thread and looking at picture after picture, we decided on a yellow sapphire set in a 14K white gold setting that is beautiful. The gem was sent to us and it sparkled, it was heavenly! We sent it to Wink and got it set and he gave it to me and it was just stunning.

Three days later I notice that my ring is dull. It went from sparking to dull overnight. I''d only worn it in the daytime, never at night or in the shower. I looked at it and saw a huge feather-like spot in it. It''s large and I can see it very clearly by looking at the stone. My husband called Wink, sent it back, and Wink said it looked like it was a natural imperfection. We were floored... how could we have not seen this huge feather? He said that he had to get out the microscope to see it, yet I was able to see it in the drive through lane of dunkin donuts (which was when I called my husband immediately!). So he sent it to Richard Homer, who said that it was there when he cut it and it''s on it''s way back.

So, I have a few questions....... does this sound normal? How could we not have seen this large feather when we had the stone and then I just *boom* noticed it was dull and saw this? I stared and stared at the ring and at the stone - you all know how it is!!

We paid around 1200, I believe, for this stone, a 3ct yellow sapphire. Is that his typical price for that type of stone with a very large feather in it? That can be seen with the naked eye?

While it''s no 5K ring, it''s my engagement ring and I just want to cry at this whole thing. We went with those two dealers because of the amazing reviews on this forum, from both of us reading thread after thread.... and now I wish we''d gotten a diamond or anything else. In my heart of hearts, I truly believe that this isn''t right - that the imperfection wasn''t there. Our fault was that we did not get the gem mapped. We shouldn''t have gone on pure trust and I''m kicking myself for not realizing that.

Thanks, anyone, for any ideas. I just can''t accept that this feather inside this stone that you can see from the top and the side was there when we got the gem for inspection. I can''t. I would have sent it back in a heartbeat. It was SOOO brilliant! Now, not so much.

Ugh, this stinks. I''m guessing I have no recourse at all. Does anyone have any words of wisdom here? IS that a price for a stone with an imperfection like that?

Thanks so much!!

Brandy
 

LostSapphire

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
3,336
Hello Brandy

I''m sorry you are experiencing difficulties with your ring. Do you have the vendor pics? Can you post them? And, do you have one of your ring?

LS
 

Brandytab

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
12
Hi,

Thanks :)

I don''t think I have vendor pics. I wish I had saved the information. I mean, I''d classify this as a pretty large inclusion, and I know the stone quality couldn''t have been listed as such... we never would have purchased it.

I''m waiting for the ring to come back, it''s been mailed today to us. I can get pics then. Maybe the macro option on our camera will give a close up.

We had a video that showed us the ring and how clear and sparkly it was, but I''m sure that video is gone - it was a link, if I am correct. I''m just kicking myself (my husband too!) in the butt. We just trusted 100%. I am sitting here thinking, "Is it possible that neither of us saw this??" But I don''t know how - even when I''d show it to others, they could spot it immediately. And to be told that one would need a microscope to see it? No way! Argh.

Thanks again,
Brandy :)
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Apr 22, 2004
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37,512
Brandy,
There is no way you can get a 3 carat yellow sapphire for $1200 unless there is something "wrong" with it. Something has to give; either the colour or clarity. In this case, it's the clarity that took a hit. If you cannot handle the inclusion, then I suggest you return it. My opinion is that you paid a fair price for it. As for the "dull" appearance after 3 days, it's probably due to dirt and natural oils picked up when worn. Just like diamonds, any gemstone needs daily wipes or cleaning to look their best. You probably didn't see the feather initially because it masked by the brilliance of the stone. May I suggest giving the sapphire a good cleaning to see if you can bring the sparkle back and also to see if the feather is still obvious. Wink and Richard are top class vendors and will work with you to make sure you are 100% happy with your purchase.
 

LostSapphire

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
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3,336
Both of these vendors are highly regarded here on PS. I''d suggest e-mailing Richard Homer and asking him for his photos. That would get you started.

You may also have some in your e-mails...It is very difficult to comment without seeing pictures. I''m sure the experts here in coloured stones would have good advice for you, but pics would help.

LS
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Apr 22, 2004
Messages
37,512
I''ve been mulling over the inclusion issue - is it possible to be dirt/lint or something else? I''m just guessing because there''s no picture to look at.
 

Brandytab

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
12
I''m looking right now - I may have saved some information.

My husband believes that the stone is 2.3CT. I honestly do not remember because I haven''t had the ring in a while. I put it away until hubby mailed it back. I picked a few stones that I liked, and he chose "the" one.
 

Brandytab

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
12
Alright, here''s the picture. It''s 2.25 CTs actually.

I''ll admit it if we made the mistake and didn''t see it. I just can''t believe that we didn''t - it''s very large and easy to see.

sapphire12345.jpg
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
37,512
I'll hazard a guess it's in the lower right corner in that picture.
 

Brandytab

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
12
Date: 4/1/2009 7:51:05 PM
Author: Chrono
I''ve been mulling over the inclusion issue - is it possible to be dirt/lint or something else? I''m just guessing because there''s no picture to look at.
No, not that - we had it cleaned and it''s already been sent back to both jewelers. Wink said he could only see it with a microscope (how can I see it easily then?), and Richard said that it was there.

It was 1200, and we got 10% off.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
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37,512
It''s a really pretty colour and cut. I''m sorry you are bothered by it. Perhaps it''s best to contact Wink and Richard and suggest selecting another stone that is cleaner?
 

Brandytab

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
12
I agree, which is why we purchased through them.

If that''s a fair price for a stone that size with that inclusion, then I''ll just chalk it up to us being so excited about the stone that we just went temporarily blind!

And is it possible that dirt/oil makes it show more?
 

Brandytab

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
12
Date: 4/1/2009 8:12:06 PM
Author: Chrono
It's a really pretty colour and cut. I'm sorry you are bothered by it. Perhaps it's best to contact Wink and Richard and suggest selecting another stone that is cleaner?
I will not argue - the stone is beautiful, and the setting it even more so! I was floored when I saw how stunning it was. I suppose that's why I felt quite sad when I saw that feather.

Is a feather typically something that's in the stone naturally, or is that something that can happen later. Please excuse my lack of knowledge - the little I know I learned from here!

Also - how did you guess the lower right corner?

Thank you for the suggestion re: a different stone. I didn't think that could be an option..... which is why I came to this forum!

I didn't mean to be so dramatic in my OP - my husband had just broke the news that Richard said the imperfection was there. It wasn't what I was expecting to hear, I kind of freaked (can't find an embarrassed face!).
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
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It is very difficult to find a stone that is internally flawless. Some will have bubbles, veils, feathers, etc. These are natural inclusions and cannot be happen later. Some can be seen with the naked eye and others are so small that it can only be seen with a loupe. There are however stones with too many inclusions or those that break the surface. Those types of inclusions can "grow" or risk the integrity of the stone so I would not get those.

I can see a faint line in the lower right corner at around 5 o'clock. I have "eagle-eyes", a term for those with sharp and sensitive eyes. It appears you have such eyes too.
It is both a curse and blessing. It's a curse because it's harder to buy eye clean gemstones and a blessing because we can pick it out easily.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Apr 22, 2004
Messages
37,512
I sort of figured you were in a state of shock and disbelief from the tone of your first post.
It's all right; we'll get everything sorted out.
 

karee888

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2008
Messages
1,168
Date: 4/1/2009 8:26:22 PM
Author: Chrono
It is very difficult to find a stone that is internally flawless. Some will have bubbles, veils, feathers, etc. These are natural inclusions and cannot be happen later. Some can be seen with the naked eye and others are so small that it can only be seen with a loupe.


I can see a faint line in the lower right corner at around 5 o''clock. I have ''eagle-eyes'', a term for those with sharp and sensitive eyes. It appears you have such eyes too.
It is both a curse and blessing. It''s a curse because it''s harder to buy eye clean gemstones and a blessing because we can pick it out easily.
You all know waaay more than me....but apparently some stones CAN feather after being cut.

if you google peter torraca and go to his site, then click on his flickr pictures, look for the "Madagascar Aquamarine feathers" - an aqua asscher that kept feathering long after he cut it. he was going to sell it to me and then noticed the new feathers.


can''t post flickr links on this site, so i''m sorry for the description above!
 

Brandytab

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
12
Date: 4/1/2009 8:26:22 PM
Author: Chrono
It is very difficult to find a stone that is internally flawless. Some will have bubbles, veils, feathers, etc. These are natural inclusions and cannot be happen later. Some can be seen with the naked eye and others are so small that it can only be seen with a loupe. There are however stones with too many inclusions or those that break the surface. Those types of inclusions can 'grow' or risk the integrity of the stone so I would not get those.


I can see a faint line in the lower right corner at around 5 o'clock. I have 'eagle-eyes', a term for those with sharp and sensitive eyes. It appears you have such eyes too.
It is both a curse and blessing. It's a curse because it's harder to buy eye clean gemstones and a blessing because we can pick it out easily.
So, the price I paid is fair for the stone with a feather inclusion that is quite visible? Others can see it also, it isn't faint when you look at it in person. If it's a fair price, then I'll accept that I missed it somehow.

I have nothing but excellent things to say about the setting and the overall ring. I did have a picture, poor quality, but this is the setting:

1218080843.jpg
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
37,512
Karee,
Sounds like the aqua was "stressed" during the cutting process. I doubt this happens too often because most cutters are able to navigate around naturals. Oh! I forgot another possibility of the fracture or feather growing. HEATING! Not your normal cooking temperature heating, of course, but higher tempeatures.
 

karee888

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2008
Messages
1,168
Date: 4/1/2009 8:36:44 PM
Author: Chrono
Karee,

Sounds like the aqua was ''stressed'' during the cutting process. I doubt this happens too often because most cutters are able to navigate around naturals.
very possible! he also mentions on his site that he''s heard of other stones feathering later [but not aqua].
 

movie zombie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
11,879
Date: 4/1/2009 7:45:42 PM
Author: Chrono
Brandy,
There is no way you can get a 3 carat yellow sapphire for $1200 unless there is something ''wrong'' with it. Something has to give; either the colour or clarity. In this case, it''s the clarity that took a hit. If you cannot handle the inclusion, then I suggest you return it. My opinion is that you paid a fair price for it. As for the ''dull'' appearance after 3 days, it''s probably due to dirt and natural oils picked up when worn. Just like diamonds, any gemstone needs daily wipes or cleaning to look their best. You probably didn''t see the feather initially because it masked by the brilliance of the stone. May I suggest giving the sapphire a good cleaning to see if you can bring the sparkle back and also to see if the feather is still obvious. Wink and Richard are top class vendors and will work with you to make sure you are 100% happy with your purchase.
everything Chrono said.

mz
 

movie zombie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
11,879
to answer your direct question: yes, $1200 is a fair price for a sapphire of that size and cut, especially from a "name" cutter. you are dealing with reputable people. you were not cheated.

if it were perfect, it would go for thousands per carat. personally, i think you got a great deal on a good stone. however, if you can''t live with it, you can''t live with it....but expect to pay more for a replacement stone. believe me, most people are not going to even notice. those of us with color stone e-rings tend to be rather picky and tend to notice things that 99.9% of the population doesn''t even know exists. however, most of us have champaigne taste and a beer budget so somthing always has to give.

mz
 

canuk-gal

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 19, 2004
Messages
21,060
HI:

Is it possible that the rough was consdiered for this concave/faceting in order to "improve" the appearance of the stone--KWIM? It is a positive thing...

cheers--Sharon
 

innerkitten

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 1, 2003
Messages
5,623
Hi, It looks like a nice stone. Everyone has certain things that really bug them though. If you aren''t happy with it maybe you should exchange it? I see what looks like the little inclusion in the pic too, but I wouldn''t have if I wasn''t looking. BT I''d love to see some pics of the final product :)
 

LtlFirecracker

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 29, 2008
Messages
4,837
Hey,

I am sorry that you are having some problems with your sapphire. I have a garnet I bought from Richard Homer, and have had it for 2 weeks. It still sparkles.

I also have a blue sapphire that has a cloud in it. It only shows up in bright sunlight when I tilt the sapphire at an angle, but when it shows, it really shows! I have learned to live with it as I would not be able to afford a cleaner sapphire in that color and size (they were twice as much), and the color, cut, and size are perfect. So it was my sacrifice.

However, this is your e-ring, so I would make sure you love it and if you don''t consider another option.
 

icekid

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 17, 2004
Messages
7,471
Date: 4/1/2009 9:33:31 PM
Author: movie zombie
to answer your direct question: yes, $1200 is a fair price for a sapphire of that size and cut, especially from a ''name'' cutter. you are dealing with reputable people. you were not cheated.

if it were perfect, it would go for thousands per carat. personally, i think you got a great deal on a good stone. however, if you can''t live with it, you can''t live with it....but expect to pay more for a replacement stone. believe me, most people are not going to even notice. those of us with color stone e-rings tend to be rather picky and tend to notice things that 99.9% of the population doesn''t even know exists. however, most of us have champaigne taste and a beer budget so somthing always has to give.

mz
ditto, MZ! I think if this is really going to bother you, it will be best to move on and find a new stone. However, I bet it''s much less visible when you keep it clean.
 

Pandora II

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Messages
9,613
Sorry to hear about your problems.

I can see what looks like a feather quite easily in Richard's photo (I'm pretty eagle-eyed for these things as well I'm afraid). The concave cut should mask it quite a lot and it's not a flaw that would bother me hugely (I prefer stones with inclusions as long as they don't threaten the integrity of the stone or have a serious negative impact on the beauty of the stone.)

Ditto everything that Chrono has said, and you paid a good price for a stone that size, that colour and by a 'name' cutter.

I've worked with both Wink and Richard before and can vouch that they are both 100% honest and would be the first to hold their hands up if they had caused any kind of damage during setting etc.

Keeping the ring extremely clean will minimise the visibility - but do ask Wink or Richard before putting the ring in an ultrasonic. Certain inclusions won't pose a problem, others can be made much worse by ultrasonics or by exposing them to extremes of temperature. It's rare to have a problems, but worth checking!

ETA: Sapphires don't have the highest RI in the world, so they won't sparkle the way a diamond or a zircon or a garnet will. A concave cut will maximise the sparkle that you will see, but you will need to clean the ring regularly - soft baby toothbrush, warm water and a bit of dish soap is very effective!
 

Imdanny

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
6,186
I have a thing for yellow sapphires and I think yours is gorgeous. However, if you are not satisfied with it and feel that you are not going to be, I would definitely get a new stone and/or ring. I do not know the policies of the vendors, but my favorite guarantees are satisfaction guarantees. If it's not what you want or expected, then I hope you can get your money back and start again. Best wishes.
 

Fly Girl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 9, 2007
Messages
7,312
Date: 4/1/2009 8:13:44 PM
Author: Brandytab
I agree, which is why we purchased through them.

If that's a fair price for a stone that size with that inclusion, then I'll just chalk it up to us being so excited about the stone that we just went temporarily blind!

And is it possible that dirt/oil makes it show more?
Absolutely. Gemstones look their best when they are clean. The sparkle will attract the eye. I learned this from my 1.50 ct 60/60 style diamond, which sparkles like the dickens when it's clean, but goes dull in just a couple of days of normal wear. So, I clean it daily. My jeweler always compliments me on having the cleanest rings of any of their clients.


I think the imperfection is quite apparent in the photo, but you have to know what to look for. You guys didn't at first, which is why you didn't notice it. Now you know what to look for.

That really is a beautiful yellow sapphire. Absolutely stunning. I'll bet that it looks amazing when it's clean. I hope that you decide to keep it, and just clean it daily, and I bet that the imperfection won't bother you nearly so much.

Looking forward to more pictures when you get the ring back.
 

Brandytab

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
12
Alright - you all are just plain amazing


Thank you for calming my mind down! I imagine it *is* possible that we didn''t see it due to the sparkle. Also, I had NO idea that the gems can get that dirty with just a day or two of wear. No clue. I imagine that they gave my husband cleaning instructions and he didn''t relay them to me, so given that, how can I clean it? I tried to clean it at one point with a toothbrush style cleaner and I couldn''t get into it very well because it''s a crown setting with not room underneath/on the side to get the stone with the bristles.

I''m obviously new to gems..... I had heard of this forum in the fall and came here to search and after I saw the AMAZING pics of the colored stones, I just knew I had to go that route. It''s just beautiful and unique.

So, given that these guys are great people (and they worked with my husband wonderfully to create the setting, he tells me!), I''m going to say that our lack of knowledge in gems and the level of sparkle just made it not noticeable. I guess why I got worried was the "microscope" comment, when I could see it very easily! That scared the heck out of me, and made me wonder if we were being dealt with unfairly. Maybe I''ve just got "eagles eyes" like you say. We gals and our stones ;-)

Thanks again for your advice - and if any of you (maybe those with his stones?) have any idea how I can get the ring cleaned (I don''t mind doing it daily) at home, I''d love to know.

Brandy
 

Brandytab

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
12
Date: 4/2/2009 6:54:11 AM
Author: Pandora II
Sorry to hear about your problems.


I can see what looks like a feather quite easily in Richard''s photo (I''m pretty eagle-eyed for these things as well I''m afraid). The concave cut should mask it quite a lot and it''s not a flaw that would bother me hugely (I prefer stones with inclusions as long as they don''t threaten the integrity of the stone or have a serious negative impact on the beauty of the stone.)


Ditto everything that Chrono has said, and you paid a good price for a stone that size, that colour and by a ''name'' cutter.


I''ve worked with both Wink and Richard before and can vouch that they are both 100% honest and would be the first to hold their hands up if they had caused any kind of damage during setting etc.


Keeping the ring extremely clean will minimise the visibility - but do ask Wink or Richard before putting the ring in an ultrasonic. Certain inclusions won''t pose a problem, others can be made much worse by ultrasonics or by exposing them to extremes of temperature. It''s rare to have a problems, but worth checking!


ETA: Sapphires don''t have the highest RI in the world, so they won''t sparkle the way a diamond or a zircon or a garnet will. A concave cut will maximise the sparkle that you will see, but you will need to clean the ring regularly - soft baby toothbrush, warm water and a bit of dish soap is very effective!
Thank you for that reassurance. I''d heard nothing but praises from this forum and that is why we chose to use them. I should have chatted with you all earlier on it and maybe I could have had more direction and known what the heck I was looking at. I should have come HERE when I first saw the feather instead of bothering mailing it all over the place.
 
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