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Red Spinel prices - 2019 edition

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Sep 20, 2008
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Update - decided to go for Gary’s stone. Despite the GRS report stating vivid red on the other stone I believe this one to be nicer, we will see - I will post pictures if I keep it :)
Good luck-I hope you love it.
 

TreeScientist

Brilliant_Rock
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Jan 16, 2018
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1,248
Update - decided to go for Gary’s stone. Despite the GRS report stating vivid red on the other stone I believe this one to be nicer, we will see - I will post pictures if I keep it :)
Congrats on deciding! It's a pretty stone. :) Post pictures when it arrives!
 

VividRed

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 25, 2018
Messages
221
Thank you @T L , I hope so too!

For those interested, my decision criteria were:

- Fluorescence: I believe Finewater’s stone to be far more fluorescent in daylight.
- color composition: I don’t want any orange in my stone, pink/purple as slight modifiers will do a better job to me.
- return policy: Ivy charges everything to the client including re-import fees and restocking fees. That’s a deal-breaker honestly, especially if you spend $$$$ or even $$$$$. FineWater seems more accomodating about it.
- pricing: Ivy’s stone is (net of discounts on both sides) more than twice as expensive per carat and I can’t justify it. I might be missing the point but even so I can’t pay that price.
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
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23,268
Did you get a daylight shot of Vlad’s stone? I’m just wondering why you believe the other one is more fluorescent. I’m just curious, because at these price points, you would hope it glows to the farthest reaches of the solar system!!
 

VividRed

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 25, 2018
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221
The video on Ivy’s website is shot in daylight. I don’t think it really glows...does it?
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
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It is? Does it say what lighting it’s in?

I think you made a wise decision by the way, especially if you don’t want an orangey red.
 

VividRed

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 25, 2018
Messages
221
I asked and it’s in daylight.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s a very beautiful stone but I like the other one better and it’s just so much more reasonably priced...i can’t explain the price differential rationally
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
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23,268
I asked and it’s in daylight.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s a very beautiful stone but I like the other one better and it’s just so much more reasonably priced...i can’t explain the price differential rationally
No, you don’t have to explain yourself. I was just curious if Vlad’s pricing is justified on that gem, and you’re right, if it is a daylight shot, it doesn’t fluoresce too much, although I do see some.

I’m curious as to why GRS labeled it “vivid red,” even though I’ve seen much more vivid red spinels. Maybe the photos and video aren’t accurate, but then again he’s an artistic person, so you would hope the photos are accurate.

Well I’m very excited for you, and Gary is a no risk purchase, so you have nothing to lose by ordering it. I can’t wait to see it!!!
 

voce

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2018
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3,755
No, you don’t have to explain yourself. I was just curious if Vlad’s pricing is justified on that gem, and you’re right, if it is a daylight shot, it doesn’t fluoresce too much, although I do see some.

I’m curious as to why GRS labeled it “vivid red,” even though I’ve seen much more vivid red spinels. Maybe the photos and video aren’t accurate, but then again he’s an artistic person, so you would hope the photos are accurate.

Well I’m very excited for you, and Gary is a no risk purchase, so you have nothing to lose by ordering it. I can’t wait to see it!!!
My impression is that GRS has a low bar for vivid red; a lot of darkish rubies make it in as vivid red. GRS may not take fluorescence into account when grading, only saturation and hue?
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Sep 20, 2008
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My impression is that GRS has a low bar for vivid red; a lot of darkish rubies make it in as vivid red. GRS may not take fluorescence into account when grading, only saturation and hue?
I’m beginning to realize that, LOL.
 

deorwine

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 5, 2005
Messages
324
I've purchased stones from Vlad they are VERY similar to his photos colourwise IRL....

@ deorwine - My current Iphone has a lot of trouble taking decent and realistic photos of reds - rubies and spinels. It really loves blues but reds always appear duller and less saturated than they really are.
@arkieb1 Yes!! This is my problem! I also feel like it gets the balance of orange and pink subtly wrong somehow. I'll have to experiment with it and maybe post some pics.

@VividRed -- I hope you like it! I'll be very interested to hear what you think of it in hand vs. his pictures.
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
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May 11, 2012
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9,591
The other stone you got (page 2) was windowed and IMHO too dark. You want a brighter (even in bad lighting) red than that. Hopefully the new one will be better.

That looks more like a badly placed inclusion with a white/colourless area than a fracture or chip to me, unless you are referring to the really tiny chip underneath, which is not uncommon in all types of stones. That photo is magnified to a level the eye probably won't see the tiny chip below it, the inclusion you might see up close but if the colour is good it should disappear on the hand.
 
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VividRed

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 25, 2018
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221
The other stone you got (page 2) was windowed and IMHO too dark. You want a brighter (even in bad lighting) red than that. Hopefully the new one will be better.

That looks more like a badly placed inclusion with a white/colourless area than a fracture or chip to me, unless you are referring to the really tiny chip underneath, which is not uncommon in all types of stones. That photo is magnified to a level the eye probably won't see the tiny chip below it, the inclusion you might see up close but if the colour is good it should disappear on the hand.
The stone from page 2 was a vendor picture :) I have not bought it and I don’t think I will
 

VividRed

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 25, 2018
Messages
221
The stone arrived. First impressions:

- excellent brilliance and cut
- very good clarity, inclusions only visible at 10x
- color - well, I actually see a lot or orange and little red unless the light is very dim. And the saturation is not as vivid as I expexted. Maybe my experience with ruby is setting the expectation too high, who knows..

I need to give it more time, at the moment I am not 100% sold :(
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Sep 20, 2008
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23,268
The stone arrived. First impressions:

- excellent brilliance and cut
- very good clarity, inclusions only visible at 10x
- color - well, I actually see a lot or orange and little red unless the light is very dim. And the saturation is not as vivid as I expexted. Maybe my experience with ruby is setting the expectation too high, who knows..

I need to give it more time, at the moment I am not 100% sold :(
Send it back, for that price, you need to see RED. Not the angry kind though, lol!

With rubies, as with red spinels, it’s all about color.

How is the fluorescence by the way?

I don’t think your ruby has ruined you for red spinel. Burmese rubies are pinkish red, and when you see fine pinkish red gems, it helps you really see the orange in other reddish gems. Some orange red gems are very nice, but some also tend to contain much brown. There’s a fine line between a fine orange red spinel, and one with slightly too much brown. There are pinkish red spinels as well, and if that’s what you want, that’s what you should try to get.
 
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budmanbudman10

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Messages
36
The stone arrived. First impressions:

- excellent brilliance and cut
- very good clarity, inclusions only visible at 10x
- color - well, I actually see a lot or orange and little red unless the light is very dim. And the saturation is not as vivid as I expexted. Maybe my experience with ruby is setting the expectation too high, who knows..

I need to give it more time, at the moment I am not 100% sold :(

Please post some photos/videos if you get a chance - would love to see how yours compare to the vendors'
 

VividRed

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 25, 2018
Messages
221
It performs best in dim daylight, overcast sky.

Under incandescent light I see strong orange overtones and overall the saturation is strong, not vivid. That’s how I see it at least.

Honestly it is a very beautiful stone, very well cut imo and with high fluo. It just doesn’t have the red I want, but I am (very) difficult with red...
 

MissyBeaucoup

Brilliant_Rock
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Mar 10, 2017
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983
To me, it’s absolutely gorgeous! I am seeing more pink than orange. Nice shot of the fluorescence!
 

icy_jade

Ideal_Rock
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May 1, 2009
Messages
3,250
It performs best in dim daylight, overcast sky.

Under incandescent light I see strong orange overtones and overall the saturation is strong, not vivid. That’s how I see it at least.

Honestly it is a very beautiful stone, very well cut imo and with high fluo. It just doesn’t have the red I want, but I am (very) difficult with red...
Will you try the other GRS vivid red instead?

This stone looks good in pics but totally understand how difficult it is to capture the color and to find the red that you love. Good luck!
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
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It looks very brownish in your photos, so if you say they’re better than what your see IRL, I would be disappointed. Is that really orange you’re seeing, or brown?
 

VividRed

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 25, 2018
Messages
221
Will you try the other GRS vivid red instead?

This stone looks good in pics but totally understand how difficult it is to capture the color and to find the red that you love. Good luck!
I don’t think so, it is a bit too dark and the return policy is a true hassle (+ restocking fee...who does that??). It would basically cost me about USD 500 just to SEE the stone and sent it back if not happy with it..
 

VividRed

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 25, 2018
Messages
221
It looks very brownish in your photos, so if you say they’re better than what your see IRL, I would be disappointed. Is that really orange you’re seeing, or brown?
It looks very brownish in your photos, so if you say they’re better than what your see IRL, I would be disappointed. Is that really orange you’re seeing, or brown?
In intense light orange. In darker setting, more brown (which makes sense, dark orange is brown)
 

deorwine

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 5, 2005
Messages
324
I'm sorry to hear you are not happy with it, especially since I feel a little responsible for pushing you in that direction! Hmm, I wonder if with part of what I was thinking in regard to "it's not pink enough" was actually "it's got more orange/brown than I like" and I didn't know how to articulate it? At least the return policy is good!

That being said, I have yet to see any spinel that doesn't turn at least a tiny bit orange in incandescent but I have one that although it does turn rather orange doesn't turn brown in low light.
 

VividRed

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 25, 2018
Messages
221
Don’t worry Deorwine, really. I would have ordered that spinel anyway, I had a great exchange with Gary and to be fair, the stone is really beautiful, just not what I am looking for.

I also see how spinel and ruby behave differently under different light settings: I have an unheated burmese ruby that goes neon pink-red in incandescent light and extremely vivid red under incandescent light with a loupe; the spinels I’ve seen tend to be less saturated and more orange under similar light.

The search continues, I will find my perfect red spinel somewhere!
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
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48A046B6-7035-468E-B0E9-B62674ED72B1.jpeg
Some spinels rival Burma rubies. Good luck with the search!!!

This is an old mine Mahenge spinel. It gives the Graff a run for the money. This is not mine, but I’ve ooogled this photo for eons.
 

VividRed

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 25, 2018
Messages
221
I don’t think so, it is a bit too dark and the return policy is a true hassle (+ restocking fee...who does that??). It would basically cost me about USD 500 just to SEE the stone and sent it back if not happy with it..
To clarify - I have exchanged several emails with Ivy’s staff and they have been lovely, providing additional pictures and videos upon request. In particular I was shown an incredible 1.6ct. vibrant pink-red spinel - sadly it is way above what I am willing to spend for a stone of that size. Inwould say they cater to a clientele who has deeper pockets :)

I also contacted Pala. Of course they have amazing stuff but again, so expensive I can’t help but think spinel is on a race with ruby...
 

VividRed

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 25, 2018
Messages
221
48A046B6-7035-468E-B0E9-B62674ED72B1.jpeg
Some spinels rival Burma rubies. Good luck with the search!!!

This is an old mine Mahenge spinel. It gives the Graff a run for the money. This is not mine, but I’ve ooogled this photo for eons.
What a marvel! Is it a known piece or is someone selling it? That must be EXPENSIVE
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Sep 20, 2008
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Oh I’m sure someone owns it. I think it’s around 13 carats, but I forget the stats or who sold it. There are old mine Mahenges that look like that. Much of the newer stuff coming to the western market is more orange and less saturated. However, keep searching!! You might get lucky, and it’s important to see high quality material so you can understand when a stone is too orange or brown. By the way, nothing wrong again with orange reds, but you want to avoid ones that are too brown, unless you’re paying a fair price and you’re happy. One of my spinels has some orange in it, but I love it.
 
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