Recutting CS from emerald cut to a more scintillating cut?

[Vidalia]

I'd like to ping the collective knowledge and experiences of this wonderfully helpful community...

I'm toying with the idea of purchasing an emerald cut sapphire and hiring a precision lapidary to recut it into another rectangular cut with more scinitillation. For example, I really love the appearances of the colored stones below.

If this route is taken, the stone plus recutting would be at the top of my budget, so I have a few questions...
Has anyone else in the PriceScope community done this type of recutting? If so, was she/he pleased with the result?
I've read that one can typically expect to lose about 15% carat weight in a recut, is that a reasonable approximation? Given the similar shapes of the cuts, would there be much risk of losing lots of face-up dimensions?

Thanks in advance for your time and feedback, and I apologize if I'm using incorrect terms!

 

[pinkjewel]

Re: Recutting CS from emerald cut to a more scintillating cu

I have had a gem recut and was very pleased with the results. It will depend on the depth of the stone how good a candidate it is and also how much loss to expect. Some gems cannot be recut at all. I suggest sending pictures and dimensions of the gem to Jerry Newman- excellent recutter and see what he says. My gem loss was very, very little as only the pavillion needed tweaking.

 

[FrekeChild]

Re: Recutting CS from emerald cut to a more scintillating cu

Emerald cut or any step cut stones are few and far between - the rough has to be a particular shape for it to be suitable for a step cut, often rough is better shaped for some kind of brilliant cut.

I would not buy a stone to recut it. Recutting a stone comes with a number of different risks, the most scary being that there is the potential for a stone to crack during a recut.

Also, another problem is that when you recut a stone, you're cutting away carat weight. So if you start out with a 4.05ct stone, cut 15% off, and you're left with a 3.45ct stone. That means that it loses that value jump that occurs at 4cts.

Also, recuts come with the risk of losing saturation and changing the color.

So, lets put some math to it:

$10,000 for 3ct stone.
15% weight loss makes it 2.55ct stone, recut costs roughly $200

You've now invested $10,200 into a stone, chopped off about half a carat, lets just put that value at 10%, so if you wanted to resell it, it'd be $9,000, and that's not including any costs related to a loss in saturation.

I would never buy a stone to recut it, unless it was really really cheap. And sapphire is not really cheap.

 

[Vidalia]

Re: Recutting CS from emerald cut to a more scintillating cu

Thank you for the advice, Pinkjewel and FrekeChild!

You've both given me good food for thought.

Also, Pink Jewel, I look up your thread regarding your recut and it's very pretty! Glad you're pleased with the result.

 

[FrekeChild]

Re: Recutting CS from emerald cut to a more scintillating cu

BTW, Jerry Newman also did a recut for me. Mahenge spinel. The man is a genius.

If you want something cut like the above examples, I would go looking for stones like the above examples. You're far more likely to find them since they don't need the depth a step cut needs.

Also, step cut sapphires are pretty rare.

 

[royalstarrynight]

Re: Recutting CS from emerald cut to a more scintillating cu

Agreed. I would not buy a stone to recut but rather commission someone to cut a stone in that style. 15% may or may not be the correct estimate for redoing the pavilion's cut. I don't think that's a safe estimation and you actually may lose more or less. It's really a gamble.

Plus the color may alter after a recut depending on zoning

I wouldn't consider a recut unless
1) It's minor crack or chip (such as Freke's Hot Pink Trim) to make it safer
2) It make the abraded facets crisper
3) It has a fat deep belly underneath and you didn't pay much. This way it'll significantly improve light performance without compromising face up area.

 

[Michael_E]

Re: Recutting CS from emerald cut to a more scintillating cu

As a cutter my perspective may be a little different from most of the responders. Not so much the end result, but the reasons for the answers.

I've read that one can typically expect to lose about 15% carat weight in a recut, is that a reasonable approximation?

No. There is no average expectation for weight loss during a re-cut, since the loss all depends upon the beginning and ending shapes. In your case going from a step cut emerald to a brilliant cut style, the amount of loss would depend upon how deep the emerald cut started at and how large it's belly was. Cutting to a brilliant cut requires that all four corners get some fairly dramatic trimming and so you would want to look for a stone which had a fairly deep pavilion to start with and as little belly as possible.

Given the similar shapes of the cuts, would there be much risk of losing lots of face-up dimensions?

Maybe. If you purchase a stone which is fairly shallow and want a barion cut style, then the only way to get there is to lose face up size. If you choose a stone with a deep pavilion, then you may only need to have the pavilion trimmed to get the cut you want.


Choosing a stone for a re-cut is complex and I would never recommend doing this to a stone which is already acceptably cut, unless the projected loss is quite small, (meaning only the corners of the pavilion would need trimming). As a cutter I make that determination by making a Gemcad layout of the existing emerald cut and a similar layout of what I want and then overlay them in Photoshop so that I can see what will get removed and where. The downside of this is that one needs to have a pretty good idea of the starting dimensions of the stone or have it in hand in order to make the initial layout. If you're trying to do this when buying from pictures and a few dimensions it can be really difficult since most dimensions provided do not list pavilion depth and crown height separately.

My advice with this is to pick a cutter first and then involve them in choosing the rough, (if they are willing to provide advice in this way). It's always going to be more risky than other methods of finding a nice stone. For one you have to understand color zoning and how it affect the finished piece as well as be adept at using a microscope and examining the initial stone for inclusions and weak areas that might cause a problem. On the other hand you may do well and be able to get a nice stone at a reduced price.

If you're really intent on doing this make sure to get side shots of the stone, all normally supplied dimensions as well as pavilion depth and post that stuff back here with a query as to the stone's suitability for re-cutting. I'll certainly post my opinion and I'm sure that some other cutters may do so as well. Sounds like fun, good luck in the chase!

 

[kenny]

Re: Recutting CS from emerald cut to a more scintillating cu

Pros bet their experience and paychecks that they have polished each rough gem into the shape that makes the most sense.
So, just buy a stone already cut to the shape and cut that you like.

You will get a larger stone for a given budget, and you'll encounter zero financial risk if it explodes on the polishing wheel.

 

[corundum_conundrum]

Re: Recutting CS from emerald cut to a more scintillating cu

Re: Recutting CS from emerald cut to a more scintillating cu
Post by kenny » 28 Feb 2014 18:11
Pros bet their experience and paychecks that they have polished each rough gem into the shape that makes the most sense.
So, just buy a stone already cut to the shape and cut that you like.

Unfortunately, this is often not the case with Colored Stones (unlike diamonds, perhaps). Because of rough exporting bans and cost cutting measures, many gems, such as sapphires, are sloppily cut to begin with. Some american lapidaries make a living buying poorly cut colored gems to recut. Its feasible someone could buy an emerald step cut sapphire and even just recut the pavilion to a more fun radiant etc.

BUT its still a financial and material risk, not for the uninitiated. You could buy a color-zoned sapphire and end up cutting all the color out of it!

Better off finding a lapidary to work with you on the project as Michael suggested. Besides Michael, Jeff White does this kind of thing, as does Roger Dery. Check the sticky.

 

[Vidalia]

Re: Recutting CS from emerald cut to a more scintillating cu

Thank you all for your input! I regularly read this forum, but irregularly post, and am so impressed with how generous you are with your time and guidance!

The reason I was considering recutting a particular stone was because it was a shade of blue-green that made my heart go pitter patter, and in my limited experience, finding such a shade in sapphire or spinel is hard! But of course, as some of you have pointed out, recutting can affect the color, to say nothing of risking the integrity of the sapphire.

Think I'll take the route of asking that vendor if he has other rough or stones that are close in hue, tone, and saturation and are in a radiant-esque cut. If he doesn't, down the list of vendors I'll go!

Thanks again.

 

[FrekeChild]

Re: Recutting CS from emerald cut to a more scintillating cu

Have you thought of buying the stone anyway, and setting it with MRBs or other brilliant cuts for the sparkle factor?

I know that step cuts aren't for everyone, but I love them. My favorite thing about them is watching as the light sort of moves along a long facet, and you see all of the colors of the rainbow....Sorry, daydreaming about an emerald spinel I recently had in my possession!

 

[Vidalia]

Re: Recutting CS from emerald cut to a more scintillating cu

Thanks for the creative thinking, Frekechild. (And I agree with you that step cuts can be beautiful! Sev. lovely examples can be found among PS members' posts.) But I've set my heart on something rectangular, cut-cornered, and sparkly for this particular ring.

 

[chrono]

Re: Recutting CS from emerald cut to a more scintillating cu

The bonus for you is that there are more fancy rectangular cut sapphires than step cut sapphires, so you are more likely to find something nice you like without the risk (zoning becoming more apparent, dip in carat weight price jump marker, inclusion growth, etc) and reasonable cost (cutting fee and ct weight loss cost). Buying specifically for a recut is not something I would do for an expensive stone; I've done so but only for stones that cost under $50 where I did not mind the potential loss at all. I've had lapidaries recut stones for me that they selected but even so, the end result was not guaranteed and I accepted and bore the risks. Granted the risk was lower than my trying to select recut candidates but I have experienced failures with lapidary selected stones.