Recutting Asscher/Princess into Lucida

[Nicrez]

Ok, I just went to see a big cutter of stones who tried to show me his radiants but had none in my range. So he found an Asscher and a princess with slightly larger carat size and offered to cut it into a "Lucida". I saw a "Lucida" stone he had shown me already, but it was too large (and expensive), so he offered to help by cutting down the Asscher into a "Lucida", to make it the right carat and price. My questions:

1. Is Lucida the same as Lucere, because the GIA report for the "Lucida" looked like Lucere, what is the difference?

2. Can anyone cut a Lucida, or is that patented and only done by Tiffany sanctioned people?

3. Can one easily cut down an Asscher into a Lucere (Lucida)

 

[Rand_alThor]

Nicrez, I dont know much about converting stones from cut to the other. My girlfriend likes the Lucida setting as well but I dont feel like paying Tiffany prices. Still based out of pure instinct, I say, I would be vary of anyone who offered to do this for you.




Who foots the bill for the cutting? Do he pass that on to you? What kind of experience does he have converting stones from one cut to another? How would GIA/AGS rate such a cut? Can anyone help?




If this can indeed be done, I am interested to know more if you would care to share. I am having a tough time finding the right stone.

 

[Nicrez]

Well, the man I am dealing with currently is actually a cutter of stones, as well as a dealer to different jewelers. Meaning: he has an office and facilities based in NY, but he does not have any display cases or fany lighting. He has actualy cutters and a staff to manage the sales of these diamonds. He has people who cut stones well, and I am sure he can do it, but he explained that this stone will still sell, even if I won't buy it, so not to worry...which is good. He's an honest guy, but of course, I didn't like the prices he quoted because he thinks he can get jewelry store prices on me... Either way, he will cut it for me tomorrow, and I will go in to see the final product. If I like it, we'll see about the price, if not, I'll keep searching and keep you updated...

Anyone know the main differences between Lucida and Lucere?

 

[Rand_alThor]

Click Here for info on Lucere




Interesting description by Rhino between the various square cuts

 

[mike04456]

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On 1/27/2004 2:52:39 PM Nicrez wrote:





2. Can anyone cut a Lucida, or is that patented and only done by Tiffany sanctioned people?

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Yes, the Lucida is patented; in fact, it has two patents. So either this "Lucida" the cutter claims to create is really just a knock-off, or he's guilty of patent infringement. And no matter which it is, by claiming to cut "Lucidas" he's infringing on Tiffany's trademark on that cut.

Not a person I would characterize as an "honest guy," personally.

 

[icelady]

Hi Nicrez,

My first instinct would be to question why on earth the "cutter" would want to cut away an already cut stone and lose carat weight in the process, thus losing money in the process. My second question would be why is a cutter offering to do this for you when he is a supplier to retailers, whom I would think would be livid that he was competing with them.

Could you be talking about DCI 's NY cutting operation? Just curious.

Maybe one of the experts in the business could shed some light!

 

[Nicrez]

Good point LawGem! I KNEW he said it's "Lucida", but I know it's patented, so he's trying to push the Lucere. I just want to know what the exact differences are. Also, does GIA certify those cuts as "Lucida"? Does anyone have pictures of the cut patterns of both, or at least a good decription or facet #s...? I know Lucere has two types, the US or European. European Lucere's offer 20 more facets, 16 on the crown and 4 on the pavillion. Anyone have anything else?

IceLady, it's not DCI, though I would be interested in talking to anyone regarding getting my perfect radiant. This guy came from an internet seller, and without giving names, the internet seller's prices were totally reasonable, and he was so helpful, but it seems the dealer thought I could be fleeced a bit more...

 

[mike04456]

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On 1/27/2004 4:33:26 PM Nicrez wrote:











Does anyone have pictures of the cut patterns of both, or at least a good decription or facet #s

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Top, Lucida, bottom, American Lucere.

 

[Nicrez]

LawGem, you are truly a wonder...and by the way, i think you can do MUCh better than JLo!

Thanks so much!!!

 

[niceice]

Actually, both Lucida and Lucere are patented cuts... Lucida is patented by Tiffany & Co. and Lucere is patented by E. Slotar & Sons / Cut by Guage. Therefore, if you're not dealing with either one of these companies, then the cutter you are working with is in violation of both patents... But what we're really wondering, is IF they guy can cut you a Lucere / Lucida / Whatever, then why doesn't he cut one from the ground up from a piece of diamond rough instead of trying to re-cut a diamond which has already been cut? The loss of rough is likely to be substantial and thus expensive in comparison to cutting the stone to the desired shape from the beginning... It's kind of like remodeling a house, it is usually less expensive to build the house you want right from the beginning than to remodel the house in sections to create the house you want... We're talking about major reconstruction here, not just a little tweaking... If you are working with E. Slotar, then we're kind of curious - are they recutting princess cuts and Asschers into Lucere's? If so, that would sure explain the price - however, they told us that they cut them from the same diamond rough used to produce round brilliant cut stones - in which case, you're little guy is standing on the wrong side of the fence all together by starting off with a square cut stone... What an interesting web he's woven

 

[Nicrez]

Sad to report, I don't think this guy has a proper Lucere cut, meaning he is likely NOT sanctioned to be gutting Lucere OR Lucida. I am "supposedly" going to see the stone soon, so let's see if the cut pattern is the same as LawGem sent me. I know Lucere was specific, but I didn't know it was patented. My little guy may just be a shade bit shadier than I first thought, and thanks to everyone whoe has been so kind to share their knowledge on this topic, I won't be fleeced into spending premium prices on a non-premium stone! But he is using the Asscher cut to retain the crown cut (as it is suppesedly the same), and will them recut the step cuts on the pavillion into the Lucere ("Lucida" as he says)

 

[caratgirl]

I will be very interested in what you think when you actually see his new stone. I just wonder if it won't really be a recut, just a different stone altogether. Of course, you would never know. If he is doing a recut to mimic one of the other styles, all he has to do is change one set of facets slightly to avoid patent infringment (if I understand my reading of jewelry periodicals correctly). If that is the case, though, it is not a recut to those exact standards.

 

[valeria101]

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On 1/27/2004 2:52:39 PM Nicrez wrote:



1. Is Lucida the same as Lucere, because the GIA report for the 'Lucida' looked like Lucere, what is the difference?

Lucere has a slightly different cut and a notably shallower crown... It is the closest brand to Lucida that I know of.


2. Can anyone cut a Lucida, or is that patented and only done by Tiffany sanctioned people?

I guess so. The model is known, so all one would have to do is follow the specs. If the stone you have already seen looked convincing, than the respective cutter surely can. It is up to you to judge wether the "look" is there. Surely Tiffany's lucidas are cut within some range of parameters to start with, but seing some for reference before the 'approximation" would sure help.


3. Can one easily cut down an Asscher into a Lucere (Lucida)

No idea. This is a Q for a cutter. The pavilions are quite different, the crowns very similar. However, the big thing about the Lucida cut is a high crown, if the original stone did not have it, the final product mai not either unless alot of diamond goes in the air. I would worry about the diamond getting too shallow or whatever after recutting, but chances are you will get a great stone. Just make sure you know what to look for in the finished product, I guess...
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[Nicrez]

haven't seen it yet, but when I do I will do my best to describe what I see...I am very curious myself...

 

[valeria101]

Lawgem,

Is the cut chart for the Lucere taken from a cert? I was trying to do the same comparison (on this thread ) and realized that those extra pavilion facets on the Lucere plot (those paralel with the gidle) look out of place and not consistent with what the two Luceres that went through my tweezers looked like (not that I was hunting down those particular minor facets at the time). Just wandering wether there is a better/ alternative source for this chart confirming the other, or we have taken the pics form the same source...