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Differences between radiant, flanders, regent, lucere, etc?

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bobby_t1

Rough_Rock
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Dec 17, 2002
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By the topic title you can tell i'm a diamond newbie, but I'm slowly on my way to becoming more educated thanks for Jonathan at GoodOldGold.com and his GREAT informational pages.

I'm essentially looking for a square diamond because that is the shape my girlfriend is absolutely in love with. We were dead set on a princess cut, until we saw an "exclusive" cut at a local jeweller's called the "Cushette". It had higher brilliance and scintillation than any princess cut we've seen.

So i then embarked on a mission to try to find a square looking diamond with higher brilliance, fire and scintillation that princess cut stones. Alogn the way I've discovered some intriguing stones:

1. Regent
2. Flanders
3. Lucere
4. Radiant

Can someone elightnen me on the actual differences? In browsing goodoldgold, most of the pictures are under 10X magnification and it makes it hard to see overall shape of the diamond when viewed with the naked eye. I'm hungry for more information about the above listed cuts, but please understand I'm no diamond expert -- i'm still a newbie so take it easy on my with the lingo/jargon :)

PS - someone might find it useful to know the size tha tI'm looking for.
Lookign for a 1.15-1.3 carat diamond, F/G color, VS1/2 clarity.
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
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Hey bobby :wavey:

Okay ... in a nutshell. :)

Regent: This and the HoF dream are the only 2 H&A type square modified brillint cuts. Every regent stone we've examined has THE MOST incredible fire and internal symmetry. In the world of reasonably priced modified squares there are few that will hold a candle to it IF you are looking to get the same kind of brilliancy and fire that you would in an H&A round.
While the Regents are considered square they have a "cushion" type look to it so it is a diamond that appeals to 2 classes of shoppers. Those who were looking at princess cut types and those who also love cushion cuts.
Within the realm of square modified brilliants the Regents have crown and pavilion angles that most resemble the round H&A which in another aspect that puts these in a class all by itself. Every Regents we've inspected falls at perfect or near perfect squares.

Flanders: I've seen and tested Flanders that were absolute duds and some that were among the finest squares I've also seen. I've never seen an H&A flanders but some of the finest squares I've seen were flanders. This company (as well as some other companies who specialize in square modified brilliants) seek to cut with a certain table/total depth measurement and are not turned onto things like the FireScope/LightScope/IdealScope/BrillianceScope and other light measuring devices so this is a company that has not mastered what crown/pavilion angles work within these stones (although I could certainly tell them). The stones are cut overseas and generally have PGS or HRD certs which are ok as long as they are doublechecked and confirmed. Flanders have brillandeered crowns and brilliandeered pavilions and are ALWAYS square.

to be continued ...
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
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Lucere: Lucere is the response to the Tiffany Lucida but at a much more affordable price. If your fiance' has gone into Tiffanies and fell in love with the Lucida and you're not keen on spending the lucida price ... the Lucere is the answer. Lucere's have a special beauty all their own and have seperated themselves from the pack in the sense that these (like the Lucida) have step cut crowns (like what you'll find in an emerald cut) and brilliandeered pavilions. The primary difference is the Lucida has 2 steps from the edge of the diamond to the table and the Lucere has 3 steps. You can see a pic of a Lucere on our site in the "Fancy" section. Some Lucere diamonds have higher internal reflection than others (like Flanders) but each has a unique look to it that is beautiful and different. The person who buys the Lucere is usually someone who has seen the Lucida and doesn't want to shell out the bucks for it. :cheeky:

Radiant: Very diverse sets of proportions. Most are rectangular and many fancy colors are cut to radiants. The best radiants actually feature the highest amounts of scintillation I've ever seen but if a person is looking for fire and brilliancy, finding these within the world of radiants can sometime be like finding a needle in a haystack. Of the group they are of course the least expensive since there are more of them available then any of the others and are way more common. There are so many radiants on the market that have terrible leakage. We rarely get calls for them anymore.

There are many who come on the forums and ask for opinions on squares. I usually do not answer since properly determining brilliancy, fire, & scintillation modified squares (including some of the above) involves looking at, at LEAST 2 pavilion angles (Lucere, Flanders, & Radiant) and 3 pavilion angles on a princess cut along with crown/table data. I am slowly but surely learning what works on these stones as I get to analyze many and there are certain numerical formula's I ask for when talking with cutters BUT one of the big problems is that among the 2-3 pavilion angles different measuring devices ONLY REPORT 1 out of the 2-3 angles needed to make an educated opinion. For example the Sarin we have gives us one pavilion angle, the OGI MegaScope repors the other. I can measure both or all 3 using the OGI but this has to be done manually.

Next year once I finish my page on the minor facets I will have a more in depth teaching on what constitutes the best princess cuts and why many are totally confused when they're trying to figure this all out. We have the technology to do it but it just takes time, which is my most precious commodity.

Hope that helps bobby.

Rhino
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
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and you've heard it all here first ... on "pricescope"
 

bobby_t1

Rough_Rock
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Dec 17, 2002
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11
Thanks for the info Rhino! My name isn't actually bobby, it's just my screen name. you can keep calling me :razz:

I just started emailing you about diamonds, in particular the regents so you should be able to deduce who I am by now ;-)

1. When you say refer to "H&A", are you just referring to the hearts and arrows phenomenon, or something else that I'm not aware of? By the info you gave above, I'm guess you could theoritically have hearts and arrows in any shape?

2. Are any of the above shapes inherently more expensive than the others?

I'll be in touch with you again shortly via email now that I've read the info you've given above.
 

soda

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
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8
Rhino or anyone, please define in no technical jargon, what each cut means as far as brilliancy,fire,scintillation.

For instance:


1. Under normal dark household lighting (single light source, lamp) what would you expect to see?

2.Under Direct sunlight what would you expect to see? What about an overcast day?

3.Under ideal "mall/store" lighting what would you expect to see as opposed to the above?

I notice most websites photograph diamonds under some sort of "ideal" light situation, what about photographing them under non-ideal #1 lighting? How would the various cuts compare to each other? Is it even important?

-------

How can a gemex report input different cuts (sqr) against each other without itself poisoning the database? Statistically a H&A rock should never be compared to a radiant, lucere or princess right? That would skew the entire database that gemex keeps?




From the looks of gemex reports, and the photographs of the various sqr type stones, it appears those different cuts give off quite a bit of different effect to the untrained eye? Yet statistically ranking very similar in color light output.

Would you mind posting a gemex 5 point scan of each of the above types of stone, all equal in "brilliancy" right on top of each other in this forum?

:cheeky:
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
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6,271
bump ....

Once I finish up some work here I'll be glad to oblige.
 

GiGi

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 8, 2002
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87
"Rhino",

Thank you for sharing your diamond cut knowledge with us. I appreciate the effort and time you spent on this comprehensive thread. After all square shape diamonds have a very special place in my heart.

Would you also give us an overview on what great emerald cut diamond is all about?

GiGi :)
 
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