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Recieved my rebound stone....

RockHugger

RockHugger

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Messages
2,974
and I have to say....WOWEEEEE! It is windex blue and sparkles like crazy in the sunlight! It reminds me of the blue water in pictures remote islands.

The stone itself is MUCH better then the pictures show. No extinction at all, no window, and just a super bright BLUE. It actually looks fake, like colored quartz or glass, but I gave it a test and its real tourmaline! I do think I am setting this one. It is way to pretty to sit in a box. It diserves to be seen and admired.

First 2 pics are in a darker room, cloudy out. 3d pic is in direct sunlight.
ETA: It does have a small amount of green in it...like I said, looks like caribbean water.

Stars: Cuprian tourmaline
.93cts
Nigeria (my new favorite tourmaline deposit!!!!)

windexparaibaksps.JPG
 
indoors, cloudy darker room.

windexparaibaksps2.JPG
 
in direct sun. I LOVE the pink and blue color together cant you tell? LOL. It gives off blinding neon blue flashes. I think this would look nice in pink gold...what do you think?

windexparaibakspsout.JPG
 
It''s a beaut! I think white gold would be good, but rose gold would look nice too.
 
Oh and Ammyguy, I saw you were offering contact info for your buddy who tests for copper. I would love that info! I have this stone and a couple others I would love to have documented.
 
Congratulations, RockHugger! What a gorgeous, happy stone!
 
Beautiful stone - what a color - WOW!
 
RH - are you going to have this one checked out? There''s something about it that''s giving me warning bells. It''s a gorgeous colour but I''ve never seen a tourmaline from Nigeria of this colour/saturation. They are doing weird and wonderful treatments to tourmaline from this locality now
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I know it wasn''t an expensive stone (as I had noticed it for sale) but ................. anyway, I hope it checks out ok.

Tell me you''re not going to do a scratch test on this one?
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cool looking stone..dang..does it have any inclusions? can you tell what they look like..I am sure you have already scoped it..i see stones that color and clean and that size going for $1000''s..color looks sweeeeet!!!
 
The tourmaline is completely eye clean, with only a couple very very fine needle/typical crack inclusions under 10x. Under 100x, it has more, but of course thats expected :-P.

I looked at it closely, and I dont see anything that raises flags. There are small cracks (under 100x) within the stone, and on the surface, that dont have any color zoning to them. It has typical blemishes and pits to it under 100x. Nothing that I havnt seen in my mozambique stones. What treatments are being done? I can do some research on the treatments and maybe run my own tests when I get the rest of my gemology gear (I ordered last weekend!) :-D. But I gotta know what treatments I am looking for. I cant find anything other then heat treatment and the mozambique diffusion debate.

I would assume heat with any tourmaline of course.

What I have read since I bought it, is nigerian material has been 'crowned' as good, and sometimes better then brazilian material, and the iron colored stones have been more vivid and 'neon' then the brazilian cuprian stones.

My new boss is a GG, so maybe I will ask her a bit about it next time I see her.
 
Main inclusion types in this stone. Taken at 120x mag. Most the stone though is VERY VERY clean even at 100x.

nigeriancloseksps1.jpg
 
RH,
It looks too good to be true. First off, have you run the usual RI check and etc?
 
Date: 5/6/2010 4:13:33 PM
Author: Chrono
RH,
It looks too good to be true. First off, have you run the usual RI check and etc?
Click to expand...
Yup, 1.645 RI, .015 BF. No Flour. Thats what I thought wne I opened it. "Oh this ones going to come back hydro quartz or glass". I was surprised it came back tourm.

Believe me, I am the first to be skeptical with new stones lately LOL. Ill do what ever tests you guys recommend (that I am capable of). And no, I am NOT doing a cratch test on this one, LOL. The BF is the easiest way to tell apatite from tourm....no scratching my tourms!
 
Date: 5/6/2010 4:04:01 PM
Author: RockHugger
The tourmaline is completely eye clean, with only a couple very very fine needle/typical crack inclusions under 10x. Under 100x, it has more, but of course thats expected :-P.

I looked at it closely, and I dont see anything that raises flags. There are small cracks (under 100x) within the stone, and on the surface, that dont have any color zoning to them. It has typical blemishes and pits to it under 100x. Nothing that I havnt seen in my mozambique stones. What treatments are being done? I can do some research on the treatments and maybe run my own tests when I get the rest of my gemology gear (I ordered last weekend!) :-D. But I gotta know what treatments I am looking for. I cant find anything other then heat treatment and the mozambique diffusion debate.

I would assume heat with any tourmaline of course.

What I have read since I bought it, is nigerian material has been 'crowned' as good, and sometimes better then brazilian material, and the iron colored stones have been more vivid and 'neon' then the brazilian cuprian stones.

My new boss is a GG, so maybe I will ask her a bit about it next time I see her.
Click to expand...
RH,
I never heard or read that anywhere. Do you know the source for that? I'm not doubting you, but all the literature I have read is that the first Brazilian deposits are the most saturated in color, with African coming in with less saturation. There may be some overlap in African and Brazilian material as far as saturation is concerned, but I always heard and read that the finest Brazilian material is really the pinnacle for saturation of color. Thanks.
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Maybe your stone is a real paraiba, but maybe it's not from Nigeria, but another locale. That's also something to consider.
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To me, it's way too saturated to be Nigerian.
 
Singly refractive? No pleochroism? Any growth tubes?
 
Thats a good point, it may not even be from nigeria....I have no idea for sure. HAHA myabe its brazilian!!! LOL
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. Wouldnt that be luck *evil chuckle*!!

I didnt save any of the sites but I read it on a couple when I googled "nigerian cuprian tourmalines". I am not claiming to know ANYTHING about nigerian tourms...just repeating what I read about them. I am still learning :-).
 
Apatite also has RI within that range (1.632 to 1.648).
 
Date: 5/6/2010 4:26:57 PM
Author: Chrono
Singly refractive? No pleochroism? Any growth tubes?
Click to expand...
Double reflective. Moderate pleochorism, shows a grass green (was actually just showing hubby, he thinks its cool). I am not sure about growth tubes. I will have to spend more time with it to look. I do "think" I saw 1 needle, but I didnt spend much time on it and I dont know if it was a fiber or not.
 
Date: 5/6/2010 4:27:33 PM
Author: RockHugger
Thats a good point, it may not even be from nigeria....I have no idea for sure. HAHA myabe its brazilian!!! LOL
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. Wouldnt that be luck *evil chuckle*!!

I didnt save any of the sites but I read it on a couple when I googled ''nigerian cuprian tourmalines''. I am not claiming to know ANYTHING about nigerian tourms...just repeating what I read about them. I am still learning :-).
Click to expand...
Honestly, if all your tests check out (check for coating too). I think you should send it to AGL for analysis and an origin report (Brazilian sells at a premium). If it''s truly that color, it''s worth a lot more than what you probably paid. I hope it pans out.
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Date: 5/6/2010 4:31:32 PM
Author: Chrono
Apatite also has RI within that range (1.632 to 1.648).
Click to expand...
Apatite also has a lower BF. The BF is MUCH higher then apatite.
 
Do you think it is worth spending the money to get an AGL report? I spent less then 40$ on it, and its onlly .93cts assuming it IS nigerian (and not brazilian....I wont hold my breath on that one!) would it be worth it?

ANd how would you test for coating (other then scratching it :- X). I dont know how to do that yet.
 
My friend was quoted $20K/ct for an authentic Brazlian paraiba around one carat with the color in your photographs and around the same clarity. You be the judge if it's worth sending it to the AGL then.
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We're all questioning it because the color doesn't jive with what you paid. You see, something seems amiss, or you're a very very lucky lady, and yes, luck like that sometimes happens, although very infrequently. We just want you to know/understand what you might have there. Good luck to you. I'm looking forward to your futher analysis of the gem

Do a google search on testing for coating. I think there are some tell tale signs like rainbow play of color on the surface, but don't quote me on that. Scratching might not be truly verifiable of coating since some coatings only come off with strong acid (the coatings they use on colored diamonds for example).
 
Well then, I will be looking at AGL tonight and calling in the morning! I could use 20k :-P. I will also look up coating and let you know. I didnt see any play of colors (other then the blue and green) yet.

I have had a few lucky finds, so who knows! ANd that last emerald guy has me a little hopefull that it is at LEAST copperbearing.
 
Okay, some clues that this may not be what is has been sold as:-

1. The seller described it as an Aqua 3 times in the Ebay advert (as well as Paraiba Tourmaline)
2. The seller says it has an RI of 1.615-1.63 (BIREF=.015) and an SG of 3.10 - neither of which are consistent with Tourmaline.
3. The selling price. If this were my stone and I KNEW for a fact that it was a Paraiba Tourmaline, I''d have put a very nice reserve on it. I wouldn''t let it go for under $40.

In another of his/her adverts (for an orange sapphire) he/she says "TREATMENT: Heat and possible diffusion with Beryllium (not evidenced, however)" now this is impossible to know unless he/she has sent this to a Lab and there is no offer of a report with the gemstone so it''s doubtful.

So, either the seller is very stupid or very cunning or just selling gems hoping they''re what he/she bought them as.

The colour is much more reminiscent of an Apatite or Coated Topaz or a synthetic of some description. At a push it could be a Zircon but finding one that colour (unless it''s a heated/irradiated one that may fade) isn''t easy.

In terms of you being able to test yourself? Unless you''ve got a full Lab in your kitchen you''ll only be able to do some simple screening. It is absolutely impossible for you to know exactly what this is with the range of tests we can do at home. So many synthetics nowadays have the same RI and inclusions as their natural counterparts so it takes a lab to give a definitive answer. A sad fact I''m afraid.

Hopefully you''ve got a bargain of the century and you''ve got what you hope for. At the end of the day however, for what you''ve paid and the colour of that gem, you''ve bought a very eye-catching piece that would look gorgeous set into a pretty pendant.


 
Date: 5/6/2010 5:15:10 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds




Okay, some clues that this may not be what is has been sold as:-

1. The seller described it as an Aqua 3 times in the Ebay advert (as well as Paraiba Tourmaline)
2. The seller says it has an RI of 1.615-1.63 (BIREF=.015) and an SG of 3.10 - neither of which are consistent with Tourmaline.
3. The selling price. If this were my stone and I KNEW for a fact that it was a Paraiba Tourmaline, I'd have put a very nice reserve on it. I wouldn't let it go for under $40.

In another of his/her adverts (for an orange sapphire) he/she says 'TREATMENT: Heat and possible diffusion with Beryllium (not evidenced, however)' now this is impossible to know unless he/she has sent this to a Lab and there is no offer of a report with the gemstone so it's doubtful.

So, either the seller is very stupid or very cunning or just selling gems hoping they're what he/she bought them as.

The colour is much more reminiscent of an Apatite or Coated Topaz or a synthetic of some description. At a push it could be a Zircon but finding one that colour (unless it's a heated/irradiated one that may fade) isn't easy.

In terms of you being able to test yourself? Unless you've got a full Lab in your kitchen you'll only be able to do some simple screening. It is absolutely impossible for you to know exactly what this is with the range of tests we can do at home. So many synthetics nowadays have the same RI and inclusions as their natural counterparts so it takes a lab to give a definitive answer. A sad fact I'm afraid.

Hopefully you've got a bargain of the century and you've got what you hope for. At the end of the day however, for what you've paid and the colour of that gem, you've bought a very eye-catching piece that would look gorgeous set into a pretty pendant.


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I know what was in her listing, and I asked about that. I was told it was describing the color not the type of stone. I dont care what the 'tests' say listings...the testing I did says tourmaline (see test results above). Apatite has a BF of less then .01. This stones BF was WAY higher then that (.014 or .015 something like that). Topaz has the same RI and BF, but topaz has weak/very weak/no pleochroism. This stone is moderate-moderately strong. How can this stone have a high BF and be apatite, or good pleochroism and be topaz?

I DONT know if its treated some way or coated. But I DO know its some type of tourmaline. There is nothing else that matches the numbers and the characteristics.

As for the BE heated sapphire...I would much rather have a seller disclose POSSABLE BE treatment, then sell a sapphire as heat only w/o really knowing. That makes me trust a seller more.

As far as synthetics, I dont believe tourmaline has one yet for tourmaline. There are people who sell 'synthetic' tourmaline but they are really quartz or syn currundum, not an actual synthetic.

And where did she say aqua 3 times? I saw it once in the subject (vivid aqua), but nowhere else. I just looked to verify.
 
Just to satisfy curiosity - what is the name of the ebay store you bought it from? I am not planning to PS-scope you - just making my own lists.
 
4474robin

Shes in Southfield Michigan.

No worries. I dont plan on buying any more stones this month so PScope away!!
 
Hugger I as well as everyone else hopes it''s the real deal..that clean and that color..wowzers..i talked to bruce..he said all is good..he is getting some things squared away but I will send you his contact info..he can tell you right off the bat if the spec. lines groove with tourmaline and if so if copper is the coloring chromophore..all for the great price of $15(plus shipping too.) can''t beat that..i really hope it''s the real deal..i will be so envious
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Thank you! And I actually paid 33$ for it :P. Not bad IMO even if it is just typical blue tourm.
 
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