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Recent graduate needs some help!!!

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LRamblerJoe

LRamblerJoe

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 26, 2006
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5
Hello All,

I’ve been reading this forum for sometime now to get ideas for engagement rings. Everyone on this board seems to be very knowledgeable and I was hoping you’ll could offer some help.

A little background: I recently graduated from college and have since entered the work force. Luckily, I was able to avoid going into debt while attending school and actually I was able to save some money in anticipation of buying an engagement ring. Kristin and I have been dating for almost 5 years. Her career as a professional ballet dancer has challenged us both with a few years of a long distance relationship. But recently she had a successful audition with a ballet company in Chicago, where we both grew up, and we will soon be moving in together. We are both VERY excited about starting a new life together and an engagement is just around the corner…

Since my budget is somewhat limited, I’m resigned to the fact that I won’t be able to afford the biggest and best diamond ever! However, I have a pretty good idea of what is in my price range.

After shopping EVERYWHERE in and around Chicago, I have run into a wall, of sorts. Here is where I need help: I have two choices of diamonds that fit my criteria (both round cuts):

a) a smaller stone (.55 - .65), VS1, D or E color, Excellent cut … I like to describe it as a Picasso (very rare and beautiful color!)
b) a slightly larger stone (.65-.75), VS2, G or H color, Excellent / Very Good cut…

Both choices look beautiful in the setting I’ve picked out – a platinum pave style ring with 16 round guide stones totaling .3 carats. If in the same situation, which of the two would you pick? Does size really matter (no pun intended!)?

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, ChicagoJoe

PS Sorry about the long post! More to come…
 
Well, personally, I would go with the smaller stone because it is better quality. I think that the quality of the diamond is more important than the size because a good diamond always looks better. And looking at the size of both diamonds, the better cut is not that much smaller than your other choice. I think whichever has more fire and brilliance should be the one you choose, regardless of size. Before buying anything though, you should probably ask your girlfriend. If it turns out that she thinks size is the most important thing for her than you need to take that into account as well. But overall I bet your safest choice (without her input) would be the better quality diamond.

Hope this helps

*Marisa*
 
Welcome
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!

I have a feeling that most of the PSers around here will agree with me on this one: Go for the larger diamond in the near colorless range (G-J) and go down in clarity. You can go below a VS2 to an SI1 or SI2 and find a diamond that will show no inclusions to you. And get the absolute best cut that you can. A well cut diamond will not show color like a poorly cut diamond will and will hide inclusions better.

A well cut diamond will always look bigger than a poorly cut diamond also.

Have you considered purchasing online? You could save yourself some $$ and get a gorgous diamond. Lots of B&M jewelers don't supply the information on cut that is so crucial.

BTW, are looking for a round?
 
I would go with the best possible cut and the colorless but if you skip down to an eyeclean SI1/SI2 you could afford a larger size. if its eyeclean you wouldn''t notice any problems. also as far as i know D.E.F all look about the same?

DimendScaasi is in chicago by the way, and they have tons of choices on their website you can see prices of straightaway and set up an appointment and look at them.
 
Thanks Marisa,

I should probably mention that I am trying to keep this a surprise. We''ve talked about getting married and such, however, she told me that she wants me to pick out everything myself, "I trust your judgment" and "You know what I like." No pressure!!!

I''m leaning toward the smaller diamond for the same reasons you mentioned. Sometimes it helps to hear it from someone else!.

Thanks for the input!
 
Date: 5/26/2006 12:48:12 PM
Author: poptart
Well, personally, I would go with the smaller stone because it is better quality. I think that the quality of the diamond is more important than the size because a good diamond always looks better. And looking at the size of both diamonds, the better cut is not that much smaller than your other choice. I think whichever has more fire and brilliance should be the one you choose, regardless of size. Before buying anything though, you should probably ask your girlfriend. If it turns out that she thinks size is the most important thing for her than you need to take that into account as well. But overall I bet your safest choice (without her input) would be the better quality diamond.

Hope this helps

*Marisa*
Click to expand...
The brilliance and fire will be determined by the cut, not color or clarity. A D-F colored diamond will sparkle no more than an H or I just because it is whiter. That is why you must get an excellent cut in a diamond.
 
Date: 5/26/2006 12:57:47 PM
Author: jazmine

Date: 5/26/2006 12:48:12 PM
Author: poptart
Well, personally, I would go with the smaller stone because it is better quality. I think that the quality of the diamond is more important than the size because a good diamond always looks better. And looking at the size of both diamonds, the better cut is not that much smaller than your other choice. I think whichever has more fire and brilliance should be the one you choose, regardless of size. Before buying anything though, you should probably ask your girlfriend. If it turns out that she thinks size is the most important thing for her than you need to take that into account as well. But overall I bet your safest choice (without her input) would be the better quality diamond.

Hope this helps

*Marisa*
Click to expand...
The brilliance and fire will be determined by the cut, not color or clarity. A D-F colored diamond will sparkle no more than an H or I just because it is whiter. That is why you must get an excellent cut in a diamond.
Click to expand...
Thanks! That makes sense... and I am sure that somewhere in the back of my mind, I knew that. But then why do people make all this fuss about a diamond being colorless, if it has little or no bearing on the sparkle of the diamond?
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Here is a little story that may or may not help you. I have been looking over a bunch of diamonds for my girlfriend as well. I have a stone that I am trying to decide on and it is a Round I/SI1/Ideal Cut. I took a good friend of mine over to look at the stone, she has a princess cut F colored ring. So she knows what a colorless diamond is like every day. I didn''t tell her about the stones color and let her look at it. She said it looked as white as hers face up and actually didn''t notice any color until I told her to compare it side by side to hers. She then noticed it, but it didn''t bother her.

Then I said I can get the same color as you have but it would have to be this size, and showed her a similar cut diamond that was smaller, but the same price. She said she would want the bigger one.

My point is that I would love to have a D VVS1 but I can''t afford that. When looking at well cut stones color becomes a little less important in my opinion. If you are sensitive to color I don''t think you would have any problems with a G-H diamond if you can get a bigger size.

The best thing for you to do is look at as many diamonds as you can. I think you will be suprised how white well cut diamonds are, especially face up, in lower color grades than D.

Good luck on your search.
 
WOW! Thanks to all the PSers.

I am meeting Isaac from Dimend SCAASI on Tuesday. Thats my last stop on the engagement ring shopping train. After that I''ll make my decision based on everything I''ve gathered. I really appreciate the input!
 
Date: 5/26/2006 1:12:48 PM
Author: poptart



Thanks! That makes sense... and I am sure that somewhere in the back of my mind, I knew that. But then why do people make all this fuss about a diamond being colorless, if it has little or no bearing on the sparkle of the diamond?
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Click to expand...

Because it is the result of an extremely successful marketing campaign of years. Colour has nothing to do with sparkle, it is simply a tint or lack of in the diamond. Sparkle has everything to do with CUT!!!!!! A diamond of any colour will sparkle and be beautiful regardless of the colour or how much of a tint it has, a great cut also has the effect of making a diamond face up whiter that it is in certain circumstances.
 
Yes, cut is the most neglected of the 4Cs by the average diamond consumer. People just do not know how important it is. New people post on here all of the time with a selection of diamonds, asking for our opinion about which is best. Oftentimes, they don't even list any cut information. I think this is also because cut is harder to understand, determine, and judge than carat weight, clarity, and color.
 
Joe, what the others here said are laudable advice. I'd follow them carefully.

Today's typical lady believes that carat weight is the most important component of a diamond (after all, on VH1's Fabulous Lives of Celebrities, that's the only thing they mention about their rocks!) and with that said, perhaps you should not sacrifice carat weight over other things such as clarity and color which in my opinion are two things on the *bottom* of most typical ladies' priority lists.

With that said, I'd go with a J stone with SI1 or better clarity of *ideal* cut because

1) The typical woman cannot see inclusions unless the stone is not eye-clean or unless she's a diamond aficionado who carries a loupe in her purse
2) The typical woman won't notice the difference between ideally cut G and J stones unless they're diamond aficionados
3) The typical woman *will* notice how big the diamond is and *will* be more happy the bigger the stone is even if she's diamond-clueless
4) The typical woman (and everybody else for that matter) *will* see the brilliance, fire, and scintillation of ideal cut stones even if she's diamond-clueless

Don't worry yourself to death on technical topics like shallow vs deep cuts to perfect viewing angles while using DiamondDock.

I have a J/SI1 stone and I'm glad I didn't squander more money on a VVS1 stone when I can't even see anything in the SI1 to begin with.
 
For me, to get the most out of what I''m paying, I bought the diamond online with an out of state vender (no sales tax). This enabled me to get a slightly bigger diamond than if I were to get it locally... well... the no tax part and the fact that online venders have lower overheads than local jewelers who need to cover the expenses of opening a store. I would really consider an online vender.

To answer your question, size matters because people will immediately notice a bigger diamond. I know the first thing I notice when I see a diamond is the size. You won''t see me going "WOW.. look at that D color rock.... it''s so colorless!!!" because honestly, I can''t tell a D from an H without putting them side by side.

I would go down to a H - J colored stone unless I was color sensitive. VS2 clarity or maybe a SI1, SI2 (if they''re eyeclean) and invest the savings from a lower color/clarity grade into a bigger diamond.

I was at Macy''s once and they showed me an I1 diamond. I couldn''t see the inclusion without the loupe (and I''m in my 20''s w/o a need for glasses) so don''t worry about an eyeclean SI1/SI2 clarity. It will be fine.

But one thing I did notice while I was there was my fiance''s ring sparkled considerably more. It''s an ideal cut H&A and there was a huge difference in performance. Her exact words were "my ring has a lot more bling". And the price of the ring at Macy''s was outrageous.
 
Welcome Joe!
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The PS vets know what they''re talking about! You could find a much bigger and equally beautiful H, I, J / eyeclean SI1, SI2 for the same price as the ones you are considering. Not every woman is the same as far as the size issue, but I think that *most* would appreciate a bigger stone. Keep on reading before the meeting on Tuesday so that you can be as informed as possible. And keep posting too! I''m sure the PS crowd would be happy to help you find a stunner!
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Date: 5/26/2006 1:48:55 PM
Author: ChicagoJoe
WOW! Thanks to all the PSers.

I am meeting Isaac from Dimend SCAASI on Tuesday. Thats my last stop on the engagement ring shopping train. After that I''ll make my decision based on everything I''ve gathered. I really appreciate the input!
Click to expand...
My husband got my engagement ring from Isaac and was really thrilled with the whole experience, and I was definitely thrilled with the results! :)
 
Chicago Joe:

I can appreciate your dilemna, and have heard great things about Isaac on this forum.

For what it''s worth, not too long ago, a friend of mine got engaged with a diamond purchased from an on-line jeweler with an excellent trade-up policy (discovered on Pricescope). The diamond selected was well-cut, just under a carat, and F/VS1 color/clarity. It was a beautiful stone ... the ring turned-out lovely ... my girlfriend was thrilled ... end of story, right?

Even after she became engaged, my friend continued to read this forum and she and her fiancee became a little obsessed with diamonds. It''s not that she was unhappy with her ring or anything, but you can learn a lot from this forum and the vendors who participate here. For example, the tutorials available at www.goodoldgold.com are easy to understand and are very helpful.

Not surprisingly, after the wedding my friend and her husband were considering a possible upgrade when a slightly larger but equally well-cut J/SI1 diamond became available from the jeweler who sold them the original diamond. (Remember, there was a great trade-up policy in place here ... )

For curiosity''s sake, they ordered the J/SI1 before ''trading up'' the original diamond so they could compare the color of the 2 stones and other factors.

The J/SI1 stone looked incredibly white - - even when it was placed right next to the F/VS1 diamond (again, the J/SI1 was a VERY well-cut diamond), and my friend''s husband admitted to a little ''buyer''s remorse'' when he realized the same dollars he had committed to the original purchase could have been used to purchase a larger but equally beautiful diamond in the first place.

Sounds like you''re on the right track checking-out reputable local jewelers in your area. But don''t discount the idea of purchasing a larger, well-cut stone that''s lower in color/clarity than you were originally considering. And it''s worth it to check-out the pricing on www.goodoldgold.com and www.whiteflash.com. As was noted above, the quality, service and selection from these vendors can''t be beat, and you can save quite a bit on sales tax if you purchase from a jeweler outside of your state.

Also, those who post regularly on this forum love to ''find'' quality diamonds within your budget, so don''t hesitate to ask for help if you want/need it.

Good luck whatever you decide!
 
Dimend Scaasi has comparable stones to WF and GOG, etc. I would definitely ask for a stone with either AGS0 or GIA excellent cut and go from there. Personally, G-H is my favored range for color, and VS my minimum on clarity. (I would definitely not pay for D or E). He does have some hearts and arrows stones, but that is not a requirement as long as the cut is ideal/excellent. That is where you get the sparkle, not from the color.

Dimend Scaasi also has some of the most beautiful settings! Please come back after your visit!
 

First of all, thanks to everyone who has responded to my first post, I greatly appreciate your thoughts. After reading everyone’s comments and a little help from a nice tax refund check from Uncle Sam, I decided to adjust my diamond search specifications.


I just got back from Dimend Scaasi and I think I found what I was looking for. Please let me know what you think.


Diamond – Excellent / ideal cut quality (hearts & arrows?), “eye clean” SI 1, J color, excellent symmetry and polish, faint blue fluorescence, a little over 1 carat weight


It really had wonderful fire and brilliance. I think the faint blue fluorescence helped with the color because next to a colorless diamond, it was extremely hard to tell the difference (even when held on the side). I even asked them to turn off the spot-lights above the desk where we were sitting and saw it under ‘normal’ conditions – perfect to my untrained eyes. Alexa the saleswomen used a 100x microscope to show the small inclusions in the diamond, the only somewhat noticeable one (under 100x magnification) would be cover when the stone was set.


Here is the setting I picked out... it looks absolutely beautiful in person, the picture does not do it justice. (http://www.dscaasi.com/build/step1.asp?prodID=1-E7180)


I haven’t made any purchases yet, I still have one more place to look, but I have to say I am leaning toward this one! Please let me know what you think!
 
Oh I am glad to read you are thinking of buying a lower coloered stone! Whenb I first read D-E i was thinking nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! THe one you are mentioning now sounds fabulous! I would say the most iportant thing is that you have seen it in person and love it. I also think the setting is fabulous! Good luck!
 
Superb work! Sounds like you've sorted the right priorities in your diamond search and that setting is gorgeous. She'll be blown away with what you've found
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Thanks for the input! I'll let everyone know what I decide. Wish me luck!
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Sounds like a fantastic stone and the setting is beautiful! I''m also in Chicago and recently visited Isaac -- you picked a great vendor to work with!
 
Sounds like you have made a good selection. Can''t wait to see what you decide on! Best of luck
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Glad you decided to go with a lower color grade stone - I''ll bet it''s beautiful!

The setting you selected is also beautiful, and if the prices posted on the website are accurate, it seems to be reasonably priced and a great value.

Please remember to post pics of the completed ring.
 
I loved working with Isaac, and am using him again right now. I hope you go for it! She''ll be floored.
 

Hey all. I lost/forgot me login name and password so I had to make a new one!


Anyway, I think I found what I was looking for, here are the specs:


Round Brilliant
6.15-6.19x3.85
.9 carat
I color
SI 1 clarity (Eye clean)
Cut Grade Excellent
Clarity Characteristics - crystal
Polish/symmetry - excellent
fluorescence - none
GIA certified
Table - 56%
Depth - 75% (I think, not sure if I''m reading the diagram correctly!)
It looked beautiful - great fire & brilliance. I just wanted your opinions before I made the purchase! Any comments would be appreciated!
 
I dunno about the 75% depth. Maybe you read it wrong but that''s too deep.
 
What is about avg for depth on a round brilliant?
 
Date: 6/19/2006 12:58:19 PM
Author: chicagojoe2
What is about avg for depth on a round brilliant?
Click to expand...

between 60.5 and 62%...
 
Ok, now I got it right, the depth is 62.3%. I really knew that, I just had a brain cramp. Anyways, here are the correct specs:

Round Brilliant
6.15-6.19x3.85
.9 carat
I color
SI 1 clarity (Eye clean)
Cut Grade Excellent
Clarity Characteristics - crystal
Polish/symmetry - excellent
fluorescence - none
GIA certified

Table - 56%
Depth - 62.3%

I know it is hard to judge by the numbers, but if I did my reasearch right, then I believe this is a good diamond. Again, any comments would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
 
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