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Really sad for my GIA 3EX diamond with a HCA score of 3.6

frechopin

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 18, 2011
Messages
2
Hi everyone, I got my engagement ring from Blue nile two weeks ago. I actually picked the diamond with my fiancee.
Its a 0.91 carat diamond with a measurement of 6.22x6.23x3.84mm
Color H
Clarity VS2
Cut grade: excellent
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
No fluorescence
Table: 57%
Depth: 61.8%
Crown angle: 35.0
Pavilion: 41.2
We were happy in the beginning and felt excited about the engagement until I put these numbers in the HCA calculator and found out it's 3.6, which is still good but not within the < 2 range.
I am extremely sad because I thought I had done enough reading before the purchase and this is one of the most important purchase I made in my lifetime (also for my fiance), so I want it to be really great. But from what I read here on pricescope, it's considered steep/deep. I just don't know what I should do about it. Does it really matter or not? If I want to return it, I have to do it this week since my 30 day free return is gonna expire and the fact that I live in Canada makes it even harder to return. Can someone share you opinion? Thanks a lot.
 

Gypsy

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Re: Really sad for my GIA 3EX diamond with a HCA score of 3.

If it is a steep deep, return and start over.
 

slg47

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Re: Really sad for my GIA 3EX diamond with a HCA score of 3.

since you have free return...I would return it and start over...that way you won't have to wonder!
 

Regular Guy

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Jul 6, 2004
Messages
5,954
Re: Really sad for my GIA 3EX diamond with a HCA score of 3.

Frechopin,

If you can stay open to returning it...that would be good.

Still, especially with what has already come before, in terms of your effort, I'd be motivated to first, take your diamond to a local store, where they are likely to have a diamond you can compare it to that would have this better HCA score, and where you can make a judgement for yourself.

The HCA score, especially as you've come to define it, is the main thing. You'll find this likely where you'll see diamonds with certificates from the AGS. Not sure if you have a Birkls or Tiffanys or Jared. Call, reach AGS to ask about where to find these near you.


If you can't tell the difference...why send it back. If you can...the proof will be laid plain.


Ira Z.
 

swingirl

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MissGotRocks

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Re: Really sad for my GIA 3EX diamond with a HCA score of 3.

The good news is that you can return it and start over if you wish. There are other stones to be sure; what do you really think or feel about the stone - HCA not withstanding?
 

marcy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Re: Really sad for my GIA 3EX diamond with a HCA score of 3.

The biggest question is do you both like the diamond? I agree it's a good idea to go compare it to some ideal cut stones to see if can tell the difference. The HCA score can help eliminate diamonds but it can't take in to account diamonds that may not have the preferred numbers but still are great performing diamonds.
 

centralsquare

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Messages
2,201
Re: Really sad for my GIA 3EX diamond with a HCA score of 3.

Yes definitely compare to others but totally keep it if you can't tell a difference.
 

yssie

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Re: Really sad for my GIA 3EX diamond with a HCA score of 3.

marcy|1316389885|3020342 said:
The biggest question is do you both like the diamond? I agree it's a good idea to go compare it to some ideal cut stones to see if can tell the difference. The HCA score can help eliminate diamonds but it can't take in to account diamonds that may not have the preferred numbers but still are great performing diamonds.

That. Take it out and compare locally to some other stones with different proportions, find out what your eyes think. Ultimately they are the most important judges.

As marcy says, HCA has uses and limitations.
 

purplesilk

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Oct 8, 2010
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1,534
Re: Really sad for my GIA 3EX diamond with a HCA score of 3.

Return it and star it over again!
Ignorance is bliss...but now you know the truth (deep diamond), so I guess you can't be happy with your current stone anylonger.
Do you really want to live asking yourself if you could have something better for the same budget?
 

LittleRiver

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Jul 25, 2011
Messages
314
Re: Really sad for my GIA 3EX diamond with a HCA score of 3.

If the steep/deep label is bothering you now, it will always bother you. Since you have the opportunity to return it and start over, that is what I would do. In fact that is what I did in your situation! I too bought a 35/41.2 Triple Ex diamond without running it by PS. I will say that the diamond looked very, very beautiful to me -- I didn't notice any of the negative effects described on PS. But once I knew it was a steep/deep, that knowledge started to bother me, and I didn't want to have any regrets or "what ifs" about my engagement diamond.
 

dreamer_dachsie

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Re: Really sad for my GIA 3EX diamond with a HCA score of 3.

Yssie|1316392293|3020362 said:
marcy|1316389885|3020342 said:
The biggest question is do you both like the diamond? I agree it's a good idea to go compare it to some ideal cut stones to see if can tell the difference. The HCA score can help eliminate diamonds but it can't take in to account diamonds that may not have the preferred numbers but still are great performing diamonds.

That. Take it out and compare locally to some other stones with different proportions, find out what your eyes think. Ultimately they are the most important judges.

As marcy says, HCA has uses and limitations.
Ditto this.

And that diamond is NOT a true steep-deep in the way the term is used on PS. It is not severe enough.
 

Rockdiamond

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Re: Really sad for my GIA 3EX diamond with a HCA score of 3.

Is there a better reason NOT to use HCA?
frechopin- I am sorry you've been put through this.
First, you plug a diamond you love into a tool that can't see it, and it tells you something is wrong with that diamond. But you can't see anything "wrong"
Then, people who've also never seen the diamond tell you to return the diamond. I'm sure that these folks are VERY well meaning- but that does not change the fact they have not seen your diamond- or the fact it's a hassle to return. Then what? Buy a diamond someone else likes, but they can't see it either?

My wife's diamond scores over 5.
It's a GIA triple EX, like yours. I purchased it based on the visual aspects- which are ( IMO) amazing.
Unlike HCA, and people telling you to return a diamond, GIA HAS examined that diamond, and declared it "EX" cut grade.
Personally, I trust GIA's opinion.

Outside Pricescope, virtually no one uses HCA.
A diamond's price will not be dependent on the HCA score- but it will be based on the GIA assessment of cut.

Many people have enjoyed using and recommending HCA here- why not?
In many cases, no harm.
This case shows how the"tool" can provide harmful info, and create fear and doubt in a consumer's mind needlessly.
 

risingsun

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
5,549
Re: Really sad for my GIA 3EX diamond with a HCA score of 3.

A good number of people responded that if the buyer liked the stone, than they should trust their eyes and keep it. Others suggested that they compare the stone with ideal cuts and see if they could tell the difference and desire to trade in their current stone for another. With all due respect, David, you have not not seen this stone, either. I think the OP received a reasonable range of options in response to the question posted.
 

frechopin

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 18, 2011
Messages
2
Re: Really sad for my GIA 3EX diamond with a HCA score of 3.

Thank you very much everyone! I actually went to see a gemologist today and I showed him both my ring and my certificate.
According to what him said, my diamond is on the steep side of the Excellent range, however it's not severe enough to be seen by human eyes. He suggested that I shouldn't worry too much about it, because it's already very beautiful and it actually looks pretty big for a 0.91 carat diamond and the price we paid is also fair. So I have decided to stop feeling sad, because ultimately, this is just a symbol of our love and what matters most is the person I am getting married with.
I learned a lot about diamond from this forum and I really appreciate everyone's time and advice. Thank you very much and good luck for everyone!!!
:twirl:
 

Natylad

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Nov 17, 2009
Messages
2,399
Re: Really sad for my GIA 3EX diamond with a HCA score of 3.

Rockdiamond|1316455162|3020759 said:
Is there a better reason NOT to use HCA?
frechopin- I am sorry you've been put through this.
First, you plug a diamond you love into a tool that can't see it, and it tells you something is wrong with that diamond. But you can't see anything "wrong"
Then, people who've also never seen the diamond tell you to return the diamond. I'm sure that these folks are VERY well meaning- but that does not change the fact they have not seen your diamond- or the fact it's a hassle to return. Then what? Buy a diamond someone else likes, but they can't see it either?

My wife's diamond scores over 5.
It's a GIA triple EX, like yours. I purchased it based on the visual aspects- which are ( IMO) amazing.
Unlike HCA, and people telling you to return a diamond, GIA HAS examined that diamond, and declared it "EX" cut grade.
Personally, I trust GIA's opinion.

Outside Pricescope, virtually no one uses HCA.
A diamond's price will not be dependent on the HCA score- but it will be based on the GIA assessment of cut.

Many people have enjoyed using and recommending HCA here- why not?
In many cases, no harm.
This case shows how the"tool" can provide harmful info, and create fear and doubt in a consumer's mind needlessly.
Ditto...
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
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8,410
Re: Really sad for my GIA 3EX diamond with a HCA score of 3.

All due respect risingsun but the op deserved to hear a professional's opinion. Having other consumers cloud the issue creates fear and doubt needlessly....which is specifically not what PS is designed to do.

A few people were quick to advise someone to return- which is a problem in this specific case, in my professional opinion.
There's plenty of times when returns are advised, or caution suggested that are spot on. This was not one of those cases.
This is a case that highlights problems when consumers advise return based on insufficient info.
It also highlights that tools for grading cut are in no way "foolproof"
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Aug 14, 2009
Messages
21,121
Re: Really sad for my GIA 3EX diamond with a HCA score of 3.

frechopin|1316460059|3020838 said:
Thank you very much everyone! I actually went to see a gemologist today and I showed him both my ring and my certificate.
According to what him said, my diamond is on the steep side of the Excellent range, however it's not severe enough to be seen by human eyes. He suggested that I shouldn't worry too much about it, because it's already very beautiful and it actually looks pretty big for a 0.91 carat diamond and the price we paid is also fair. So I have decided to stop feeling sad, because ultimately, this is just a symbol of our love and what matters most is the person I am getting married with.
I learned a lot about diamond from this forum and I really appreciate everyone's time and advice. Thank you very much and good luck for everyone!!!
:twirl:

:appl: Perfect resolution!

And FWIW I agree wholeheartedly with RD's assessment... a tool is just a tool, all have virtues and limitations, and none are even half as good as what YOUR eyes think of the stone! As I keep saying - we can tell you exactly what the stone is doing with the light it takes in in more detail than you'd ever want, but we can't tell you anything at all about what your eyes see and understand the stone doing and how that compares to what your eyes prefer to see...
 

Regular Guy

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Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
5,954
Re: Really sad for my GIA 3EX diamond with a HCA score of 3.

Yssie|1316392293|3020362 said:
marcy|1316389885|3020342 said:
The biggest question is do you both like the diamond? I agree it's a good idea to go compare it to some ideal cut stones to see if can tell the difference. The HCA score can help eliminate diamonds but it can't take in to account diamonds that may not have the preferred numbers but still are great performing diamonds.

That. Take it out and compare locally to some other stones with different proportions, find out what your eyes think. Ultimately they are the most important judges.

As marcy says, HCA has uses and limitations.

Sounds like you're withdrawing your earlier thoughts on the value of comparing...

Frechopin, best of wishes. Where you say:

"So I have decided to stop feeling sad, because ultimately, this is just a symbol of our love and what matters most is the person I am getting married with."

How could one argue with that.

All the very best,

Ira Z.
 

marcy

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Feb 27, 2007
Messages
24,125
Re: Really sad for my GIA 3EX diamond with a HCA score of 3.

frechopin|1316460059|3020838 said:
Thank you very much everyone! I actually went to see a gemologist today and I showed him both my ring and my certificate.
According to what him said, my diamond is on the steep side of the Excellent range, however it's not severe enough to be seen by human eyes. He suggested that I shouldn't worry too much about it, because it's already very beautiful and it actually looks pretty big for a 0.91 carat diamond and the price we paid is also fair. So I have decided to stop feeling sad, because ultimately, this is just a symbol of our love and what matters most is the person I am getting married with.
I learned a lot about diamond from this forum and I really appreciate everyone's time and advice. Thank you very much and good luck for everyone!!!
:twirl:
Sounds like you know what matters the most. Good luck to both of you. Enjoy that beautiful diamond. :wavey:
 

purplesilk

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 8, 2010
Messages
1,534
Re: Really sad for my GIA 3EX diamond with a HCA score of 3.

Dear frechopin,
I'm glad you found peace of mind and I'm wishing all the best to you and your fiancee.

To Yssie and Rockdiamond:
I'm one of those who suggested to return the diamond: I'm not a diamond expert, but I know that, when I'm in doubt, I need to start it all again because the "Could I do better?" bug won't leave my mind otherwise.
I respect you as diamond experts , but you don't even accept someone else's opinion...from the highs of your academic diamond knowledge you allow yourselves to mock other PSers.
Purplesilk.
 

risingsun

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 19, 2006
Messages
5,549
Re: Really sad for my GIA 3EX diamond with a HCA score of 3.

purplesilk|1316526179|3021284 said:
Dear frechopin,
I'm glad you found peace of mind and I'm wishing all the best to you and your fiancee.

To Yssie and Rockdiamond:
I'm one of those who suggested to return the diamond: I'm not a diamond expert, but I know that, when I'm in doubt, I need to start it all again because the "Could I do better?" bug won't leave my mind otherwise.
I respect you as diamond experts , but you don't even accept someone else's opinion...from the highs of your academic diamond knowledge you allow yourselves to mock other PSers.
Purplesilk.
Which is why, purplesilk, I responded that I thought that the OP had received a range of appropriate choices to help him make a decision. We have the right to post our own opinions, for that is what they are. Someone else can post a differing opinion without being dismissive of the opinions of others.
 

purplesilk

Brilliant_Rock
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1,534
Re: Really sad for my GIA 3EX diamond with a HCA score of 3.

risingsun said:
Which is why, purplesilk, I responded that I thought that the OP had received a range of appropriate choices to help him make a decision. We have the right to post our own opinions, for that is what they are. Someone else can post a differing opinion without being dismissive of the opinions of others.
That's what I meant.
Plus, we all think very highly of them because they are diamond experts, so they don't need to debase other PSers to prove their great value and meaningful contribution to this board.
 

Rockdiamond

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Re: Really sad for my GIA 3EX diamond with a HCA score of 3.

PS is an amazing place- and lot of good advice is given here.
You'd think that those devoted to accuracy - and this community- would appreciate when inaccuracies are pointed out.


An opinion made to sound authoritative, yet is based not on fact- and one that will severely inconvenience the person asking- for no reason is actually against the spirit of the forum.
Purple- I'm sure your intentions are good- but there is ZERO information presented to prove the diamond in question is too deep- but there is a GIA report. GIA graded the diamond "triple EX"- that means a lot- like the diamond is not too deep to get a GIA EX cut grade.

From where I sit, there's a choice- let the OP get bashed around needlessly by inaccurate information, or post accurate info based on my professional experience.
Please understand that it's a difficult choice- but one that I am committed to.


HCA is great if you have Garry's exact taste- but it can eliminate a lot of amazing stones.
When someone is in the midst of shopping, assessments based on HCA are not all that bad- I do believe that when PS "Prosumers" recommend a diamond, it's very likely to be a very good one.
But the same does not hold true for critiquing stones - especially a GIA triple EX already purchased by someone.
The results can be a lot of needless stress for consumers.

I hope you can accept my apologies purplesilk- my intentions are good. If it was you, I believe you would want to know if there was really a red flag- but you'd also probably not want doubt introduced when there was no justification for it.
 

yssie

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Re: Really sad for my GIA 3EX diamond with a HCA score of 3.

Whoa. Um. I don't recall throwing my weight around?

Purplesilk you asserted that "the truth is that the stone is deep". I have several problems with this statement:
1. you don't have any information besides the rounded, averaged numbers on the report by which to judge, so you
2. have no idea if the numbers precisely represent the stone or (more likely) not, and
3. you've never seen the stone, so you can't make a visual judgment, and
4. the implication is that the stone's light return is suffering, and if those numbers do precisely represent the stone there is simply no reason whatsoever to assume that that implication is in fact the case.

I don't have any problem with differing opinions - on the matter of what she should have done about her discovery, I myself can't stand to worry if I'd chosen something sub-par, so if I didn't have a venue through which to find out more I'd likely do exactly as you suggest and start over. Fortunately OP does have such a venue, should she choose to investigate.

FWIW I didn't even read your original post until just now so my own posts certainly weren't aimed at "mocking" your or anyone else's opinions - I assure you that you're up in arms over nothing on this one.
 

John P

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Re: Really sad for my GIA 3EX diamond with a HCA score of 3.

First and last: What matters is that the OP loves the diamond and paid a fair price for it.

Regarding the various opinions given: Since GIA rounds data-points there is no way to know whether this diamond may be 57/34.7/41.1 (HCA 2.8 ) 57/35.2/41.3 (HCA 4.4) or somewhere in-between. Additionally, most of those data points are averages of 8-16 individual measurements. Grading report data cannot communicate how precisely a diamond is cut or how far variations from the average numbers go. This can have a notable positive - or negative - influence on contrast as well as visible dispersion or scintillation. In short, there is no way to know how this diamond appears in a quality-sense without seeing it firsthand.

Based on observations made by the OP and her gemologist - and reinforced by positive signs in the numbers such as 6.22-6.23 with EX/EX finish - it sounds like any potential dangers from being at the steep end of EX may have been compensated-for via cut consistency, brillianteering and minor-facet cutting choices.

Summary: Does this diamond pass the minimum requirements for GIA EX? Yes.
Is that enough for some people? Yes.
Is that enough for all people? No.

And that's why you have disagreement.

There is nothing wrong with disagreement. No-one who has posted here is "wrong." People simply have different tastes and thresholds. Part of the charm of this place is that new posters get to figure out which group of folks they're most similar-to in terms of taste and expectations. In that sense, a wider array of input and information provided during the journey can help lead a newcomer to the most satisfying ultimate destination.
 

Rockdiamond

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Re: Really sad for my GIA 3EX diamond with a HCA score of 3.

John, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
It is "wrong" to assert that someone should return a diamond based on insufficient- or innaccurate information.
I agree that there's a range of GIA EX- some GIA EX cut graded stones are more to my liking than others- yet all will be accurately described as "well cut".

If the question is "chocolate or vanilla?" just about everyone would appreciate it's a taste based question.
But not all readers understand that this is the very same type of question.
By throwing around technical sounding terms like "steep deep"- and combining that with a low ( high) HCA score, uninformed readers will likely draw a conclusion that this was a "bad" diamond.
They might even get "really sad" about it- now we wouldn't want that, would we?

Basically, from where I sit, advice was given that sounded like technical reasoning, when in fact it's a taste based issue- furthermore, none of the well meaning people suggesting return had even seen the diamond to be able to give any sort of fair assessment.

That's just..."wrong"
 

risingsun

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5,549
Re: Really sad for my GIA 3EX diamond with a HCA score of 3.

John Pollard|1316546758|3021530 said:
First and last: What matters is that the OP loves the diamond and paid a fair price for it.

Regarding the various opinions given: Since GIA rounds data-points there is no way to know whether this diamond may be 57/34.7/41.1 (HCA 2.8 ) 57/35.2/41.3 (HCA 4.4) or somewhere in-between. Additionally, most of those data points are averages of 8-16 individual measurements. Grading report data cannot communicate how precisely a diamond is cut or how far variations from the average numbers go. This can have a notable positive - or negative - influence on contrast as well as visible dispersion or scintillation. In short, there is no way to know how this diamond appears in a quality-sense without seeing it firsthand.

Based on observations made by the OP and her gemologist - and reinforced by positive signs in the numbers such as 6.22-6.23 with EX/EX finish - it sounds like any potential dangers from being at the steep end of EX may have been compensated-for via cut consistency, brillianteering and minor-facet cutting choices.

Summary: Does this diamond pass the minimum requirements for GIA EX? Yes.
Is that enough for some people? Yes.
Is that enough for all people? No.

And that's why you have disagreement.

There is nothing wrong with disagreement. No-one who has posted here is "wrong." People simply have different tastes and thresholds. Part of the charm of this place is that new posters get to figure out which group of folks they're most similar-to in terms of taste and expectations. In that sense, a wider array of input and information provided during the journey can help lead a newcomer to the most satisfying ultimate destination.
John~
You are a breath of fresh air in this discussion. We are talking about opinions and suggestions. No one has the power to make a decision for the OP, but a jeweler is likely to have more influence than a regular PS member. I think that someone in the trade needs to take care when making recommendations. John, your post is the type of response that I see as helpful and educational :read:
 

affguy

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Feb 18, 2011
Messages
100
Re: Really sad for my GIA 3EX diamond with a HCA score of 3.

John Pollard|1316546758|3021530 said:
First and last: What matters is that the OP loves the diamond and paid a fair price for it.
The only part of this discussion that bothered me was the second part, as I haven't seen any mention of what he paid. It may very well be that he paid a fair price. It may also be that he paid a premium price for the triple EX that conveniently overlooked it being on the deep end (I doubt there'd be much discount, if any, it's just a thought). I have no idea, but if he loves the stone and is happy with what he paid for it, I say let the chips lie where they fell. :appl:
 

CharmyPoo

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7,007
Re: Really sad for my GIA 3EX diamond with a HCA score of 3.

I think you have come to a very rational conclusion. I think for some of us (me included) .. tend to be obsessive over the details (mind portions which the eye may not see). For me, if there is no financial lost, I would try to get a diamond with an HCA score of under 2 given that the price is similar - why not for a peace of mind. My eye may not be able to tell the difference but I know the HCA score will eat away at me even knowing that I may not be able to tell the difference. It is the same reason that I don't examine my settings under a loupe because I don't want to find a defect and have it stuck in my mind.
 
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