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Really not sure if I have made the right decision

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aguyinlove

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
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Hi All,

Great forum and lucky I found you as I ‘m not sure if I have made the right decision. I have been looking for a diamond and I found a Jeweler that has suggested this diamond to me. There are so many stones out there and it gets so confusing for a simple guy.

The Jewelery has told me this is the best diamond for me to get for my design and price.

Round Cut 1.56, F, VS2, VG cut, EX Polish, with no Fluorescence and I’m going to have this made into a classic ring with just the one diamond.

What do people think is this a good diamond? I have not told my other half about this as I want to surprise her. I’m worried the diamond is not the best I can get as there are so many options out there.

Any help would be great.
 
Your username is so sweet! It definitely sounds like your heart is in the right place.

Around here, most people live by the slogan that "cut is king," so it''s hard to tell much from just knowing it''s a VG stone. Could you tell us what the numbers on the certificate are for depth, table %, crown height and pavilion depth? And which lab certified the stone?
 
Hello thank you so much for your reply... I'm spending a lot of money and have no idea what I'm doing....

I have not bought it but they have it in stock.

Depth 62.70
Table 59.00
Report GIA
Dimensions 7.44*7.35*4.64
Culet:N
Symmetry VG

I just want the best for my other half as she is an amazing woman...

thanks again
 
We need the crown and pavilion angles too please.
 
Cut is king. Precise angles and percentages make a huge difference.
I would consider a higher cut grade at the expense of carat/colour/clarity. I doubt that I'd ever again consider a stone awarded a GIA VG cut because there is just too much scope for cutters to make a bad stone that is packed-out with extra weight at the expense of beauty.
In fact, even GIA-excellent cut is not a guarantee of something that really sparkles to your taste.
I would reject about 75% of all GIA EX cut stones, based on what I consider to be non-complementary proportions that arise from where cutters can exploit loopholes in cut grades to maximise weight and $$$$.

Fluorescence is much-criticised and ridiculed by people who simply pass on what they've been told - many of whom have never seen a fluor stone.
While the lilac tint in strong daylight/sunlight is not to everyone's taste, only an extremely tiny proportion of fluoro stones turn hazy and I believe that is due a combination of lower clarity grades (SI2 and lower) and due to the nature of the inclusions (clouds, feathers, wisps, graining) within the stone and not the fluor itself.
In fact, I have seen more NON-FLUOR stones turn hazy in sunlight (or stones that are always hazy) than the total number of fluor stones that I've ever seen (and I have 6x D-F with strong - very strong fluor).

If you don't like the idea of a lilac tint, don't buy a stone with any higher than faint fluor. If lilac tint in strong daylight doesn't bother you, then don't fret over fluor stones. You can always ask the seller if it is hazy; most won't be.
 
I suggest that the safest option is to seek out a GIA or AGS stone with excellent cut grade and then run the proportions through the following cut estimators.
These cut grade estimators are much stricter than the GIA cut grading system and should help you to narrow down your search to the very finest stones.
Do''t be afraid to drop a little on colour or clarity, if necessary. Better cut stones are really lean (not overweight) and often "face-up" as large as less-well cut stones, with the benefit of much more sparkle and less "dead" areas within the stone.

https://www.pricescope.com/cutadviser.asp

http://gemappraisers.com/oldcutgrade.asp
 
...oh yes....my recipe to help finding an outstanding stone that's close to Tolkowsky's ideal and with less risk of cutters tricks:


GIA Excellent cut grade.
Very good or better polish.
Excellent symmetry.
Not sitting right on a carat boundary; go at least a couple of % above the magic weight marker.
Medium girdle, or medium-sl.thick, or thin-medium (but don't accept thin-slightly thick; it's too variable).
Total depth: 61.8% maximum.
Table size: 55-57%
Crown angle: 34.5 degrees.
Pavilion angles: 40.8 degrees.

I'm sure that those stats would infuriate most jewellers because they are harder to find than your average "excellent" cut stone and often more expensive.

Put my money where my mouth is? Sure....

I bought this stone several weeks ago - almost as soon as it was graded:
http://www2.gia.edu/reportcheck/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.showReportVerification&reportno=2115300794&weight=1.02
 
Hi thanks for all the replies... they did not give me the crown and pavilion angles. I will ask for them...

So it seems this is not the best diamond for my ring.. if I understand this right ? sorry I''m a dummy at this stuff...
 
Date: 11/27/2009 8:02:53 PM
Author: aguyinlove
Hi thanks for all the replies... they did not give me the crown and pavilion angles. I will ask for them...

So it seems this is not the best diamond for my ring.. if I understand this right ? sorry I'm a dummy at this stuff...
Click to expand...
No, not the case at all. We just can't tell without the crown and pavillion angles. Also don't know the price that is being asked for the stone.

Here is a stone from one of the online vendors just for comparison. Your stone may be better or worse but it's something for you to compare to.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1255544.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

BTW, your lady is very lucky to have you trying to learn about and get her the best diamond possible!
 
Thanks for the link it''s costing me $17800 Aus including taxes.
 
FB thanks for all the info and great links... so much to learn but I love her so I want the best for her...
 
I have absolutely no information to offer up about angles/specs that will make the most beautiful diamond, as people like FB are much more knowledgable than myself. However, I can tell you almost definitively that you will get the most bang for your buck buying the diamond and/or setting from an online retailer in the United States. I''m in Oz as well, and the diamond prices here are simply outrageous. Buying online, you''ll often end up with a much more beautiful diamond than you''d get from a retailer here -- and it will still be cheaper, even including the import/customs taxes. I put the more stringent specs that FB provided into PS''s vendor search and stones were coming up at about $10-11,000 USD -- and I''m nearly certain their cuts are heaps better than the one you''re currently considering.

There''s nothing wrong with buying whatever fits your taste -- if you love the stone you''re currently looking at, go for it. What I do hate is people paying for quality they''re not receiving. You need to find out exactly what cut quality that stone has and then negotiate its cost accordingly. There''s no sense paying for a Monaro when you''re really getting a Getz (like I said, nothing wrong with a Getz, as I have one, just make sure you''re paying the right price for what you''re getting).
2.gif


If you really want to keep your money in the country, try Jogia Diamonds (online, based in Perth, dealers of ideal cut/GIA certed diamonds). Or speak with Garry Holloway in Melbourne.
1.gif


Good luck -- it''s very overwhelming at first. Keep reading here, and don''t get overwhelmed with the amount of detailed information available. You don''t have to know everything to buy a fantastic diamond -- all you have to do is find one with all of the stats necessary and the experts here will chime in with what they think. There are some really lovely people here that will help you find exactly what you want, even if you just provide the colour/clarity/size/budget you have in mind. They''ll tell you if you''re being unrealistic, and if you aren''t, they''ll find you prospective diamonds from the trusted online vendors.
9.gif
 
Hi justginger, thank you so much for taking the time to write to me. I will have a look at the US prices and compare. I will also get in touch with the other people if I cannot find anything. I do like this Jeweller I'm talking to but price dose come into it.
 
I plugged the GIA numbers into the Holloway Cut Adviser and the result was not good at all.




















It got a score of 5.6. PS experts will primarily recommend diamonds that score under 2 -- unless you''re getting one heck of a deal on them (which $18,000, in this case, is not).

I''ll scan through the online vendors and see if I can find anything comparable in color/clarity/carat and with a much better cut. Disclaimer: people like Lorelei are much better at this than me! However, because of the time difference, you and I are awake and she''s probably sleeping off her Thanksgiving turkey.

2.gif

 
Sorry, HCA info didn''t cut and paste in the last post. What''s meant to be in that big blank spot is:

Factor Grade

Light return Good

Fire Poor

Scintillation Fair

Spread Very good
 
Oh yes you are right.. =
7.gif
well thanks for pointing this out as I would have bought a bad egg
 
so just to confirm, I need to get a diamond that fits into the model around a number 2 is this correct ?

thanks
 
yes. under 2 is good, though lower is not better. example: 0.4 is not better than 1.3. You''re just looking for <2.
 
If you''re in Australia and considering buying a loose diamond or the entire ring from the USA, this recent thread might be an interesting read for you!
21.gif
 
http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-65065.htm - this one is quite good, got an HCA of 1.4.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1218527.asp - got the same HCA as the one above, plus you can view a magnified image of the exact stone, and it''s only $11,750 USD with the Pricescope discount.

I''m sure others (who aren''t nearly as slow as me) can find similar options if you can provide a colour/clarity preference (I was sticking to the G/VS2 perimeters of the original stone in question). You could go bigger, or save money, if you''re open to downgrading either. It''s all up to personal preference.
 
aguy,

i'm borrowing this pic from another thread with a diamond that scored a 6.8.
3%20ct%20pic%205.JPG

see how you can see skin straight through the middle of the diamond? this area will appear dark when the diamond is set, and is exactly the sort of thing the HCA was developed to help protect you against. so no, the diamond your jeweler is recommending is not the best stone to get for your money (by far...)

the stones that ginger recommended are a great place to start. i'm not sure what the exchange rate is right now or how much it is to ship (and how much it's taxed), but i am pretty sure you'll be able to find a much better diamond for less $$ than the one your jeweler suggested. if you let us know what you're really looking for, we can help you narrow down your search a little more. good luck!
 
Date: 11/28/2009 12:39:54 AM
Author: aguyinlove
so just to confirm, I need to get a diamond that fits into the model around a number 2 is this correct ?

thanks
Click to expand...
The very best stones will often score between 1 and 2 and also sit within the GIA or AGS excellent cut grade, which is indicated on the HCA chart.

If you can find a stone that scores less than 2 on HCA, plus is graded Ex by GIA, plus also sits within AGS 0 parameters (shown on HCA chart), plus gets AGA cut grade 1A, you're probably onto a stone that's something very special.
The shortcut to stones with that kind of potential is the strict set of numbers that I already posted.

As you'll see from the stone that I listed earlier
( http://www2.gia.edu/reportcheck/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.showReportVerification&reportno=2115300794&weight=1.02 )

GIA Excellent cut.
HCA = 1.3 (EX/EX/EX/VG).
AGS 0 candidate.
AGA cut grade: 1A (in all categories).
 
WOW I''m so grateful for all your replies. This picture has really helped me understand what the diamond would look like and seeing the skin through the diamond is not good..

The examples have also given me something to work with. I think I have been misled by the Jeweler and I should look at buying from James Allen once I sort out the Jeweler.

I really feel as If I have been misled on this diamond and without you all I could have thrown my money.

Stay tuned as I will return once I talk to my Jeweler on Monday.

I hope I can help some one else out now in the future.
 
The other option, if you''re in Australia, is to contact Garry Holloway''s shop to see what they can do. Yes, that''s the "Holloway" of the Holloway Cut Advisor (HCA). I believe his stores are in Melbourne.

http://www.hollowaydiamonds.com.au/
 
Thanks great find I might give them a call once I sort out not getting this diamond.
 
Date: 11/28/2009 5:14:32 PM
Author: aguyinlove
WOW I'm so grateful for all your replies. This picture has really helped me understand what the diamond would look like and seeing the skin through the diamond is not good..

The examples have also given me something to work with. I think I have been misled by the Jeweler and I should look at buying from James Allen once I sort out the Jeweler.

I really feel as If I have been misled on this diamond and without you all I could have thrown my money.

Stay tuned as I will return once I talk to my Jeweler on Monday.

I hope I can help some one else out now in the future.
Click to expand...
It is possible that the stone may have some cutters tricks performed on it that allows a better (or worse) light-reflection performance that the HCA/AGA suggest. I have a steep/deep 35.5/41.2 56/62 that shows no ring of darkness because of some painting and digging on the girdle (mostly on the upper part). But GIA Ex cut aims to penalise stones with painting or digging - and is why my stone is graded GIA VG, even though it's proportions sit right in the middle of GIA Ex. Grades below GIA Ex allow progressively more cutters tricks (good or bad) before penalising the cut grade.
So don't be too harsh on the jeweller unless you are in a position to show the jeweller some obvious visible defects in the stone - such as the ring of leakage around the edge of the table, shown in the picture above. Note that the ring of death can be masked by light entering the bottom of the stone, so don't allow yourself to be tricked by the angle of the light.
 
Date: 11/28/2009 6:15:45 PM
Author: FB.
Date: 11/28/2009 5:14:32 PM

Author: aguyinlove

WOW I''m so grateful for all your replies. This picture has really helped me understand what the diamond would look like and seeing the skin through the diamond is not good..


The examples have also given me something to work with. I think I have been misled by the Jeweler and I should look at buying from James Allen once I sort out the Jeweler.


I really feel as If I have been misled on this diamond and without you all I could have thrown my money.


Stay tuned as I will return once I talk to my Jeweler on Monday.


I hope I can help some one else out now in the future.
Click to expand...

It is possible that the stone may have some cutters tricks performed on it that allows a better (or worse) light-reflection performance that the HCA/AGA suggest. I have a steep/deep 35.5/41.2 56/62 that shows no ring of darkness because of some painting and digging on the girdle (mostly on the upper part). But GIA Ex cut aims to penalise stones with painting or digging - and is why my stone is graded GIA VG, even though it''s proportions sit right in the middle of GIA Ex. Grades below GIA Ex allow progressively more cutters tricks (good or bad) before penalising the cut grade.

So don''t be too harsh on the jeweller unless you are in a position to show the jeweller some obvious visible defects in the stone - such as the ring of leakage around the edge of the table, shown in the picture above. Note that the ring of death can be masked by light entering the bottom of the stone, so don''t allow yourself to be tricked by the angle of the light.
Click to expand...


FB. Thank you this is an interesting point and something I was not aware off. I will not true and be to harsh on the Jeweller. But if the diamond has some light tricks it will be very hard for me to explain why this diamond is not for me. but something I had not even thought of as I''m an honest person.

many thanks
 
Hi all,

well I have been to the Jeweler to see the diamond and I must say I''m now confused.

I looked at the diamond again after reading all the post and the diamond was sparkly and clear and white and it had color.

But I could see through the diamond since it was pointed out on here but only with a loop as it was held with some special diamond holder.

since I was confused I wanted to go to Tiffany & Co to see what I would get for my money and compare diamonds.

well I compared the same color but an excellent cut and it was very different it was darker, very sparkle and had a solid look.

This might sound strange but the first diamond you could see through and looked clear/white with sparkle and the Tiffany diamond seems as if it was looking back at you.

I''m really not sure how to explain it and now I''m not sure which is a better diamond as they both had different points and since I''m spending a lot of money...

just wanted to share my experience with you... sorry if this is confusing
 
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