realizing it is ALL ABOUT OPINION

[iknowquinn]

ok- after my last posting, i decided to runa search on fred cuellar. after reading all the posts- i realize there are just SO many opinions out there about who''s right- who''s wrong...max depth percentage...H&A...Tiffany''s..it goes on and on. it seems to me- that there are certain truths that you can not ignore. A "D" color is fabulous "M"- not so great etc. but at a certain point- everyone goes their separate ways as far as what''s "the best"...and the more i read all the contradictions and different opinions abounding on this site...the more i realize i feel SO comfortable with tiffanys. i love the setting- the diamond is stunning- the price is right around what some other independant dealers have quoted me for a comparable stone, i do NOT in any way feel ripped off...i feel confident and comfortable after doing all my endless research that this is the right decision for me.

 

[Hest88]

As long as you know what you're paying for and can afford it, that's great. In the end, you have to go with what makes you most comfortable.

 

[Daniela]

Amen. Do all the research from all the angles, and then buy the ring that calls to you.

 

[iknowquinn]

i appreciate you guys understanding!! in the end- it really is about what makes you most comfortable and what you love. if i had just deicided i wanted a tiffanys and did no research to back up that desire- i would feel foolish. this decision is after MUCH research and investigation. in fact, at first i was actually AGAINST tiffanys cuz i thought they would def. just tack on an additional 20% or so for the same ring i could get elsewhere. but after all my searching- i feel the opposite. i am sold on the ring at tiffanys!

 

[tessa]

I think you should go for it.

Now you know what you want, get it!

 

[Nicrez]

Just a little point of information (please correct me if I am wrong) but I have learned that DeBeers especially have given diamond quality preferences to those sellers who can




1) move stones more quickly


2) afford more of an investory and come to the table with large amounts of money


3) Preferences of rare stones go to Harry Winston, Tiffany's, and other people of such caliber




Considering this, I have also done a bit of searching today for IknowQuinn's stone. It's NOT an easy stone to find. Tiffany's would be more likely to carry it, because they sell more large high quality stone (not including cut on this quality) than most on-line retailers.




Considering the chain of purchasing rough and cut stones, Tiffany's IS higher on the chain than an e-tailer who generally does NOT know a siteholder who gets the rough, but knows perhaps a cutting facility of even gets it 3rd hand. By this time the larger stones have been moved to larger stores with higher selling capacity for sale, than an on-line retailer. There ARE exceptions.




When it comes to "smaller" stones, below 2.5, an on-line retailer is the BEST place to go, because this is the best market for deals, since the need is greater in these sizes and the prices can be more competitive, as the supply is greater in these sizes.




Larger stones are rare and they are generally kept from sale to on-line retailers and kept by the cutters to sell to Tiffany's or larger luxury stores for a greater markup. That's where they make their money. Tiffany's will pay slightly more for a 2.5 stone than a BlueNile, because they know they can GET more. It's not worth the cutters time to sell it cheaply, so he sells his big stones to big clients for a bigger price tag.




by the way Fred Crueller, is a scam. he uses scare tactics to convince people that the internet is laden with criminals, when he also peddles a diamond buying service (where he takes a share of the cut) to convince you that no one else can be trusted but him. By the way, his website and service as a broker to buy you a diamond can also be considered an on-line transaction. Who will regulate him? Maybe he'll write a book about it and try selling that? But i sure wouldn't buy it!

 

[mike04456]

----------------
On 2/12/2004 11:31:15 AM Nicrez wrote:







Just a little point of information (please correct me if I am wrong) but I have learned that DeBeers especially have given diamond quality preferences to those sellers who can




1) move stones more quickly


2) afford more of an investory and come to the table with large amounts of money


3) Preferences of rare stones go to Harry Winston, Tiffany's, and other people of such caliber

----------------

Definite yes to #1 and #2, no to #3. Neither HW nor Tiffany & Co. are sightholders--they are retailers. There is, however, a growing concern in the industry that De Beers, which, though it controls only around 50% of the overall market, has a much higher percentage of large, top-quality rough. They are funneling it to a select number of manufacturers for those very reasons. Some people are concerned that De Beers ultimately plans to control a vertically integrated market from mine to the mall. A lot of things remain to be seen, however.

 

[Nicrez]

LawGem,


Have you heard of the Merger between DeBeers (around 2000) and LVMH? I was ;ead to believe that at some point this would start DeBeers in the retail jewelery market?




(sorry to hijack, but Tiffany's is not supposed to be discussed until tomorrow (Fridays = Tiffany debates) anyway...

)

 

[iknowquinn]

i didn't know that friday was "tiffany day"!! i would have waited til tomorrow to post! very fun....maybe i'll tune back in....!

anyway- thanks everyone for responding and debating and communicating in general. it is always helpful to hear many sides of a situation.

 

[mike04456]

----------------
On 2/12/2004 12:56:56 PM Nicrez wrote:







LawGem,


Have you heard of the Merger between DeBeers (around 2000) and LVMH? I was ;ead to believe that at some point this would start DeBeers in the retail jewelery market?


----------------

De Beers has one retail store, in London. There is some talk about opening one in NYC, but so far it's just talk.

 

[glitterata]

Hey, maybe Thursdays are better--I've noticed that iknowquinn and everybody discussing this topic with him have been completely civilized, considering how much yelling the topic usually raises.

Good luck with your purchase, iknow--remember to show us pictures.

 

[iknowquinn]

i will definitely show pictures!! but it may not be for a couple months....

i think the reason everyone is not so heated about this debate- is it seems like a number of us are actually in agreement that when it comes to a larger stone, it may be worth it to go to tiffanys...and also- everyone is presenting their well reseacrhed opinions and respectfully disagreeing with others- as opposed to just flipping out and calling names. everyone on this thread seems to have a valid perspective.

 

[Kiz]

Everyday is a Tiffany day on this forum!

Nice choice and good luck on your purchase.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 2/12/2004 2:29:17 PM iknowquinn wrote:

..and also- everyone is presenting their well reseacrhed opinions and respectfully disagreeing with others- as opposed to just flipping out and calling names. everyone on this thread seems to have a valid perspective.----------------

Because you have not pointed the finger back at us. Some assume that either 1. we don't know what we are talking about. 2. are somehow jealous & 3. can't afford it. None of which is true in my case & just plain ugliness.

If that blue box is worth the premium & you can afford it, then buy where you like. Let us know what you decide, pictures are mandatory as is proposal stories.

Good luck.

 

[aljdewey]

I'm not in agreement with this: it seems like a number of us are actually in agreement that when it comes to a larger stone, it may be worth it to go to tiffanys.. Nope.....I would never consider purchasing an e-ring at Tiffany's a "smart" shopping move for *me*. But I respect others' rights--armed with the facts--to determine that buying at Tiffany's is right for them.

But I'm definitely in agreement with this: "and respectfully disagreeing with others- as opposed to just flipping out and calling names. everyone on this thread seems to have a valid perspective." Yes.....adults should be able to have differing opinions without name-calling and childish antics.

 

[Rhino]

Tiffany's the same price??? Same price as what and compared to whom??? I realize there are many stores who falsely claim to carry "tiffany quality" merchandise but what about the ones that do? Are you saying that they are charging the same prices as Tiffany? Curious.

 

[Nicrez]

YAY! Rhino bringing back the Tiffany's thread...




it's Friday...BUMP!

 

[iknowquinn]

well- i know that for a 2.4 H VS2 from DCI...it is about 28k....Tiffanys in nyc quoted me roughly the same price.

 

[Nicrez]

Have you checked other Tiffany's stores. Maybe you can get a better assortment, because when we went to Tiffany's, their stock was low, and I am not all that impressed with what they had left... Have you tried other stores in other states?

 

[valeria101]

I hoped someone would bring this up...

No, it is not only about opinion! Unfortunately, optics is a domain of exact science, and the "look" of a small prism (i.e. a cut diamond) is a matter of optics.

The quality of Tiffany's settings is by no means unachievable elsewhere either: it is neither the best possible, not the best priced. Unfortunately, it is the rather dismal standards of mass manufacturing, not the intrinsic quality of Tiffany standard merchandise that makes them stand out, in my view, of course.

Tiffany makes great shopping if one cannot or does not want to acquire experience and pledge time for a buying an e-ring (or jewelry in general). Tiffany's premium (and I strongly doubt it is only 20%) can save you time and enough risk aversion may make it worthwhile, I guess. Of course you will find prices close to tiffany's out there, however, most would be close from below

Surely there are more expensive brands too, offering even better assurance on quality !

I believe that using the quoted price (either DCI or Tiffany's) as an indication of quality, assumes too much about the disinterested nature of marketing ?!

What is a great diamond to you?

I still believe that even the most reputable seller (as these two are) should prove their claims about their merchandise...

If DCI based their estimate on Tiffany's prices, where does this lead you?

As far as I know, DCI does not explain what their estimates are based on (at least those I received were not accompanied by any justification). This works for buying sandwiches, not diamonds... I guess.

 

[Hest88]

I was planning on staying out of this, but DCI? Isn't that Fred Cuellar's firm? Well, this is the first time we've heard a price for his stones, and I guess he not only makes as much of a profit as Tiffany, but without all that overhead too!

 

[Nicrez]

To some people saving that extra money is not worth it, when it comes to an engagement ring. We ALL like having the best for less, but for some people, the best is something else entirely.




I agree with you guys who say shop around, but truly, larger stones ARE harder to find, and at discounted prices THAT much lower. Tiffany's indeed has a mark-up that's rough, and the quality can not be guaranteed as better, but you know what? It can still sell well in a secondary market BECAUSE it's Tiffany's and perhaps not by people on PS, but by others who know no better or who just value Tiffany's more than we do.




To each his own, I KnowQuinn sounds set and I say, good luck, you girl will be floored with a monster stone like that from Tiffany's, anyone of us would be...

 

[Mara]

Hee Hee that's funny. Quotes from DCI being the same as Tiffanys? PLEASE GO BUY THE TIFFANY! Do not give Fred your business! If you have read up on his history (just Google the man), you probably could agree you would not want to spend a red penny with him much less 2.8 million of them.




Bottom line. Tiffany's IS marked up. If DCI's price is the same as Tiffanys then FRED is marking up as well, which is insane since he doesn't have the clout of a Tiffanys brand. A 2.4c H VS is NOT going to be $28k that is absolutely ridiculous! Try maybe around $20k. Savings of $8k? And I bet the $20k one is going to be hearts and arrows, superideal yadda yadda. But hey...if you have decided that your only options are shopping with DCI or Tiffanys......hands down I support the Tiffany purchase.




Oh my god did I just say I support Tiffanys?

 

[Mara]

Case in point on pricing....




http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=AGS-4708602




2.50 I VS2 A Cut Above SuperIdeal stone for less than $19k (Pricescope pricing).




So the H VS 2.4c with a non super ideal cut...maybe $20k. Not $28! And I bet this I VS would actually face up similar to the H VS since the cut is hands down top notch better.




Ooh it bugs me that Fred is continuing to rip off customers!!

 

[pulp_princess]

You just reminded me! I was going to compare how much my ring was to my two (ex-) Tiffany rings. Perhaps I'll wait until next Friday to post it though.

I thought most people were against Tiffany pricing and their advertising claims.

Congratulations on finding something that's right for you, Tiffany or not! That's something I don't think anyone could be against when it comes to diamonds.

There was one thing that I never really understood. There is a lot of mention about "Tiffany's fire" that I never really saw outside the store in my stones. Yes, their stones look very nice in-store, but after looking at it in different lighting outside the store, I don't think I get what people are seeing. (???) Is it just me?

----------------
On 2/12/2004 2:29:17 PM iknowquinn wrote:

i will definitely show pictures!! but it may not be for a couple months....

i think the reason everyone is not so heated about this debate- is it seems like a number of us are actually in agreement that when it comes to a larger stone, it may be worth it to go to tiffanys...and also- everyone is presenting their well reseacrhed opinions and respectfully disagreeing with others- as opposed to just flipping out and calling names. everyone on this thread seems to have a valid perspective.----------------

 

[mike04456]

----------------
On 2/13/2004 10:14:02 AM iknowquinn wrote:





well- i know that for a 2.4 H VS2 from DCI...it is about 28k....Tiffanys in nyc quoted me roughly the same price.
----------------

DCI = Fred Cuellar. Fred, among other things, has a felony fraud conviction. If, as you say, you're into trust, DCI is the last place you should be going. Do a search here and on DiamondTalk and you will see one horror story after another.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

-----------
at first i was actually AGAINST tiffanys cuz i thought they would def.
just tack on an additional 20% or so for the same ring i could get
elsewhere. but after all my searching- i feel the opposite.
-----------

I'm glad you're happy with your purchase, and there is a lot to be said for the staying power of the Tiffany name.

But don't kid yourself. An additional 20% would be a low estimate for the additional amount "tacked on" by the Tiffany name, and equivalent quality diamonds (and better) can be found readily through many quality vendors.

That said though, the reason luxury stores like Tiffanys and Neiman Marcus thrive is because many buyers such as yourself feel comfortable with the level of quality and service offered by these high end vendors. There's nothing wrong with that. There's certain stores whose reputation and service I enjoy, and regularly pay more for as well.

 

[pqcollectibles]

----------------
On 2/13/2004 11:05:28 AM Hest88 wrote:

I was planning on staying out of this, but DCI? Isn't that Fred Cuellar's firm? Well, this is the first time we've heard a price for his stones, and I guess he not only makes as much of a profit as Tiffany, but without all that overhead too!----------------

Somebody has to pay for all the free books he gives away!

HeeHee!!