Re-cutter recommendation in NYC for colored diamond?

[chatbandit]

Hi all, hoping to get some recos for a recutter who is knowledgeable with colored diamonds? For more info on my now-solved brown diamond mystery you can read about that here in CS. I'd love to learn about any NYC recutters you'd recommend as the big question is whether i'll recut it as a radiant (or an emerald - my preference) to make it more sparkly and to possibly improve value since its cut is its greatest flaw.

Thanks in advance!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I know that Good Old Gold has had brown diamonds recut into August Vintage rounds by a master cutter, so I would contact Jonathan there regarding your request.

 

[kenny]

Actually, you may not want a cutter who is an expert cutting fancy colored diamonds.

Yes, cutters of colored diamonds have valuable skills.
They know how to optimize the color saturation of a diamond, which increases the value of colored diamonds.
The closer to GIA's grade of Fancy Vivid a fancy colored diamond can be cut the more it will be worth.

That's great for diamond wholesalers and retailers who want to make as much money as possible on each colored diamond, but for a customer who inherits a colored diamond and considering a re-cut it may not be the way to go.
Here's why.
The best light performance probably calls for a cutting recipe that is different from the recipe that makes the color stronger.

Now that you own it if you intend to keep it and wear it you may want better light performance more than the highest color grade and value and a higher insurance premium.
I certainly would.
Yes a higher GIA color grade will make your diamond more valuable in the FCD world in which light performance takes a back seat or is just thrown out the window, but IMO value matters only if you're going to sell it.
If I intended to wear it I'd definitely get it recut for the best light performance possible and just let the color grade fall where it falls.

I'd recommend contacting directly the cutter in Israel named Yoram F.
He posts here on Pricescope under the name, DiaGem.

I know he is competent cutting for light performance becaus he cuts the precision ultra-superb light performance August Vintage like and the Octavias for Good Old Gold.
Here is Yoram's info:
Website: www.diagem.net
Email [email protected]

You can arrange secure shipping to Israel and back via www.malcaamit.com
They specialize in shipping jewels, fine art, and gold bullion around the world.

If Yoram tells you he needs a recipe to cut to I'd contact our expert step cut designer KarlK.
He is the genius who designed the amazing Octavia Asscher. [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/pop-the-cork-i-just-bought-the-first-ocatvia.132337/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/pop-the-cork-i-just-bought-the-first-ocatvia.132337/[/URL]

Karl's info:
Website: http://www.stormsplace.com
Email: [email protected]

 

[Rockdiamond]

Hi chatbandit,
Congratulations!
I took a quick look at the other thread- and was actually surprised to learn it's a diamond- the color is very cool, based on the pictures.
With all due respect to the advice given so far, a stone like that needs someone not only well versed on Fancy Colored Diamonds- but brown diamonds in particular. The recommendation of Yoram is one of the best out there- my recommendation if it was possible would be to go for color- like the ones he cuts for us, as opposed to what Kenny is referring to "Light Performance" .The problem you'll face with him is that he does not deal directly with the public, as far as I know.

My opinion about the term "light Performance" is that it's used and taken out of context frequently.
If you want maximum white light return, that's basically the way you'd cut- which is a total waste of a good Fancy Colored Diamond.
Applying the term to a stone the color of your boulder , I'd take "Optimum light performance" to be a cut that brings out the color, best as possible, as opposed to trying to hide color.
You can see this when you look at stones Yoram has cut for white light performance, versus stones he's cut for Fancy Color performance.
It's just different.
In the first case, a Y-Z color Old Mine Brilliant looks almost white, in the second case, it looks quite yellow

 

[kenny]

Keep in mind sellers of colored diamonds, which are not cut for light performance, sometimes bash light performance, or try to make is seem murky, obscure and not worth looking into.

It's understandable since they are in business to make money.
They want to sell every FCD in their inventory.

I, on the other hand, have no conflict of interest.
I'm not here to influence people so I can make more money.
I don't sell anything.

I'm just a collector of Fancy Colored Diamonds with experience that comes with 20 FCD purchases from Leibish & Co. www.fancydiamonds.net
In my collection are some with good light performance and some with horrible light performance that I bought only for their rare color.
When I shop I DO look for that needle in a haystack FCD with both great color and light performance.
It annoys the heck out of the sellers.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/fancy-colored-diamond-collection.159746/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/fancy-colored-diamond-collection.159746/[/URL]

 

[Rockdiamond]

Kenny- I don't think it's accurate, or fair to boil down my participation over many years, and thousands of posts here as an attempt to sell every diamond we have.
I really do love discussing diamonds and helping to "de-bunk" a subject that can be quite daunting to many people.

I don't know if you're referring specifically to me, however I am not "bashing" light performance- rather I am making an effort to clarify the term "light performance".
Since we're comparing apples to oranges ( colorless to Fancy Colored) the "performance" that is considered "optimal" is different.

There are definitely Fancy Colored diamonds that are cut better than others. Stones that are cut to show off the color- yet do so far better than others.
But they are not cut to reflect white light- they are cut to "perform" at showcasing the natural body color in an attractive manner.
As I mentioned, if you look at a Natural Light Yellow Y-Z color- or even Fancy Light Yellow cut to showcase white light, it won't look very yellow.
If it's cut to "perform" in a way that showcases yellow, it may be perceived to be "performing" better. And it will certainly be a lot more yellow and some would say prettier.

In the case of brown diamonds specifically, the manner in which they broadcast color is totally different than how a yellow diamond does.
So what we'd be looking for, in term of performance is a totally different ball of wax, as compared to an Ideal Cut round Brilliant- or a modern cut Old Mine Brilliant or OEC cut to look as white as possible.

 

[yssie]

FYI for anyone reading this who doesn't know:
Yoram cuts two lines with different goals for two vendors: GOG's AVCs for "white light" performance and DBL's signature cushions for "colour" performance.

I'm no expert on any of this so I have nothing to contribute, but Yoram is certainly an expert at getting the "best" out of coloured rough given different definitions of the word "best"... and I'd be very interested to hear what he thinks of that brown!

This old thread introduced me to just how convoluted the term "light performance" can be: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/precision-cut-what-does-this-mean.164265/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/precision-cut-what-does-this-mean.164265/[/URL]

 

[starrylight]

Garry commented on another post over in the man made diamond portion saying that to increase light performance

Confirming Eric's comments on HCA as its inventor - for colored diamonds the thing is to keep light bouncing around inside the stone as long as possible - average ray paths of 7x diameter get great results. The brightest round brilliant colourless stones average about 2.5x.

ASET is useful though - as much green as possible, as little red and in a perfect world no blue at all. Any amount of evenly dispersed leakage (white) with small spots of green gets a great result. The blue will cause dark zones and thats bad. Big leakage zones can also cause dark zones.

The post is over here: https://www.pricescope.com/communit...light-performance-in-colored-diamonds.192779/

 

[Dreamer_D]

Chatbandit, what result are you looking for with the recut? What characteristics of diamond appearance are you trying to optimize?

 

[Rockdiamond]

FYI for anyone reading this who doesn't know:
Yoram cuts two lines with different goals for two vendors: GOG's AVCs for "white light" performance and DBL's signature cushions for "colour" performance.

I'm no expert on any of this so I have nothing to contribute, but Yoram is certainly an expert at getting the "best" out of coloured rough given different definitions of the word "best"... and I'd be very interested to hear what he thinks of that brown!

This old thread introduced me to just how convoluted the term "light performance" can be: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/precision-cut-what-does-this-mean.164265/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/precision-cut-what-does-this-mean.164265/[/URL]

Thank you so much for posting that link Yssie!

DD has brought a great point. What are the goals of a recut?
Yoram and I have discussed this for hours on end.
Should the goal be maximum color?

Remember, that an emerald cut, by it's very nature won't allow the even "smooth" color if a Radiant cut- or Cushion with a "crushed ice" look.
So, if one goes that route, there's a sacrifice to be made in that regards.
The same holds true for an OMB.
Yoram feels strongly that it's worth it to cut to the OMB style.
I fall on both sides of this particular fence- because I truly love OMB's and Emerald cuts.

I remember a case of a 5+ carat Emerald Cut that one of my favorite cutters had just finished.
Besides amazing step cuts, he cuts some of the most amazing "crushed ice" style stones I've seen. And he's completely on the other side of this particular fence.
The stone in question was drop deal gorgeous step cut.
He had called me over to give him my idea what GIA would grade the color.
I believed the stone to be Fancy Light Yellow- he agreed.
It was cut to a 4 and a half carat Fancy Yellow.

Who was right in this case?
I was chomping at the bit to buy that stone- as an emerald cut.
But the cutter was looking at numbers- not emotion.
4.5 x the price of Fancy Yellow> 5.5 price of Fancy Light Yellow
SO- the question of what the OP desires to achieve with a re-cut is very relevant.

 

[acebruin]

ditto on what you're trying to achieve, aka what you want and prefer...

for me personally, i'd keep it as a step cut... not many colored diamonds out there are step cuts for the reason David just pointed out... color is king in the colored diamond world... i'm a step cut lover all the way... if i were to recut it, maybe i'd improve on symmetry to make it look like a gorgeous emerald cut that draws you in...

the idea of cutting it into OMB sounds very interesting... if you love old cuts that might be the way to go...

if you love the "crushed ice" look, cutting it into a radiant might be the way to go...

in any case, have fun going through the process... and recut the stone into something that you would love...

 

[Niel]

I wonder if it was cut as a step cut if you might like the stone more.

If the step cut actually could make it look brighter, not as dark, I wonder if you would prefer that color. As its an orange brown, right? I just wonder how you'd feel if it had the color the stone has around its edges now.

I mean of course get the cut you like too. But I wonder how close the color would come to a color you like if it was a step cut compared to radiant.

 

[Karl_K]

looking at the pic my opinion is that an expert cutter already worked on that diamond.
He/She took rough that was a very dark brown and cut a stone with nice color out of it.
Getting that material to sparkly like lighter material is not going to be possible.

A radiant cut from that material would be near black in color.

 

[Rockdiamond]

looking at the pic my opinion is that an expert cutter already worked on that diamond.
He/She took rough that was a very dark brown and cut a stone with nice color out of it.
Getting that material to sparkly like lighter material is not going to be possible.

A radiant cut from that material would be near black in color.

I agree with most of Karl's assessment.
As I mentioned earlier, Brown diamonds do not project color in the same way a yellow diamond does.

This characteristic will severely limit the recut possibilities on such a stone

Honus- welcome to PS- you bring up good points- however not all recuts have the goal if increasing monetary value specifically.

 

[Dreamer_D]

looking at the pic my opinion is that an expert cutter already worked on that diamond.
He/She took rough that was a very dark brown and cut a stone with nice color out of it.
Getting that material to sparkly like lighter material is not going to be possible.

A radiant cut from that material would be near black in color.

Karl, theoretically is it possible to eliminate the window in the stone without making it appear darker?

 

[Karl_K]

looking at the pic my opinion is that an expert cutter already worked on that diamond.
He/She took rough that was a very dark brown and cut a stone with nice color out of it.
Getting that material to sparkly like lighter material is not going to be possible.

A radiant cut from that material would be near black in color.

Karl, theoretically is it possible to eliminate the window in the stone without making it appear darker?

Not realistically, ie not without making it very much smaller.(smaller diamond, less material, lighter color)
It is also not a full window its right on the edge which was done intentionally.
It was also done by eye for each set of pavilion facets it is not easy to do at all.

 

[chatbandit]

Thanks so much Karl. Not sure if you've seen the other thread but basically your assessment was confirmed by a helpful appraiser today and now that I have the GIA report I doubt ill be cutting it.

 

[Karl_K]

Thanks so much Karl. Not sure if you've seen the other thread but basically your assessment was confirmed by a helpful appraiser today and now that I have the GIA report I doubt ill be cutting it.

Thanks for the heads up to check the other thread.
More comments there.