Re-cut or ?

[kindred]

I have a diamond that I am considering re-cutting. I can't find the very old appraisal I had done, but the best I can remember is that it was estimated to be in the VVS-VS range, L/M color and somewhere in the 2.25-2.5 ct range. It has some nicks along the girdle (and possibly a very thin girdle) and years ago and it was recommended that I put the diamond in a bezel setting to protect it. The previous appraisal was one of those inflated appraisals that had me paying inflated insurance premiums. I eventually dropped the insurance and put it in a safe deposit box. I am a poor photographer but I will attach the best shot I could get. I have an ideal scope somewhere and I could try to get a photo with it if it would help.

Background: The diamond has been in my family for a long time and my grandmother had it re-cut into a MRB some time in the 1970's. I used to wear it but it has just been sitting in a safe deposit box for years. It is mounted in a huge yellow gold setting and I have never seen the stone outside of the setting.

I have seen some remarkable re-cuts on Pricescope and I am wondering if I should send it in to someone to explore that option. But then there are many questions that come to mind. Who to send it to (Southwest Diamond Cutters is much less expensive than Brian Gavin, but maybe Brian Gavin is worth it? Any other suggestions?) Do I need to get it insured first? If so, then I need to get a new appraisal and the two local places I called want $150. That seems high to me, especially since I would probably be having it sent to AGS or GIA later if it is re-cut. How much is it worth spending to explore this, given that it is probably at least an M color and not worth a lot of money because of that? I think that USPS shipping and insurance might be pretty expensive. Is there a cheaper way to ship it? Should I just set it in a bezel setting and not worry about the nicks and possible very thin girdle and not risk the stone being destroyed during re-cutting? It is fairly unusual to see diamonds this large in my area, and unheard of in my social circle, so I am struggling with the idea of what kind of setting I would use and would I even wear it often enough to make all of this worthwhile.

Sorry this got so long!

 

[dtnyc]

USPS shipping isn’t that much, I recently sent my ring with a 2.08 carat stone in it to David Klass and I think it was $37 with insurance.

What would you like to do with it? Don’t worry about what other people around you have or don’t have.

Do you have a local jeweler you trust? I would have it removed from the setting and a basic evaluation done before anything. Small chips aka flea bites on a girdle can often be polished off without a full recut. Also there is no way to really know the color while set.

Have you seen any ring or pendant settings that you like?

 

[dtnyc]

Oh and I didn’t need to show the post office an appraisal before shipping my ring with insurance. I am sure if the ring had been lost I would have needed something, but I think even a dated appraisal would be sufficient, so long as all of the stone details were there.

 

[BlingDreams]

I went through relatively the same dilemma with my earrings. In the end I went with BGD because his work is so well know and people have been almost universally pleased with their outcomes. Even though my diamonds will probably lose a little value in the end because of the carat weight being dropped, the cut will unquestionably be improved and I’ll enjoy them so much more knowing that they’re the best they can be.

Brian will do an evaluation on your diamond and let you know if he feels it’s safe to cut it with minimal chance of damage; he doesn’t want to break your diamond either. Yes, you will need to insure it. You should be able to look up the old GIA number to see it’s ratings and then do a comp search and take the average of those prices for your insurance (which you will need before he’ll cut it). Whether or not you need an actual appraisal depends on your insurance company (mine wants an appraisal for anything over $15k).

Most of all, please don’t sell it. In my younger years I traded in a 3+ carat old mine cut that had been in our family for generations because no one ever wore it and always kept it in a safe. We all thought it was too large and inappropriate for wear. I can’t tell you how much I regret that decision now

 

[kindred]

I wish I had someone local with a Sarin machine! I don't really have anyone local that I feel is especially knowledgeable.

I would definitely set the diamond as a ring and I love halo settings, but I am not sure if that might be too much. If the color turns out to be really low, I might try to play that up.

 

[kindred]

I went through relatively the same dilemma with my earrings. In the end I went with BGD because his work is so well know and people have been almost universally pleased with their outcomes. Even though my diamonds will probably lose a little value in the end because of the carat weight being dropped, the cut will unquestionably be improved and I’ll enjoy them so much more knowing that they’re the best they can be.

Brian will do an evaluation on your diamond and let you know if he feels it’s safe to cut it with minimal chance of damage; he doesn’t want to break your diamond either. Yes, you will need to insure it. You should be able to look up the old GIA number to see it’s ratings and then do a comp search and take the average of those prices for your insurance (which you will need before he’ll cut it). Whether or not you need an actual appraisal depends on your insurance company (mine wants an appraisal for anything over $15k).

Most of all, please don’t sell it. In my younger years I traded in a 3+ carat old mine cut that had been in our family for generations because no one ever wore it and always kept it in a safe. We all thought it was too large and inappropriate for wear. I can’t tell you how much I regret that decision now

Thanks for the reply! It does not have a GIA number. It was only graded in the setting by a local jeweler, so I don't know the dimensions or any of the true specs.

I can imagine your regret in selling your family stone. My grandmother's diamond seemed enormous way back when, but after years on Pricescope it doesn't seem that large at all! Plus I have a large ring size, so compared to Phoenix's Holly for example, it won't look large at all!

I am going to look for your re-cut thread now.

 

[BlingDreams]

Thanks for the reply! It does not have a GIA number. It was only graded in the setting by a local jeweler, so I don't know the dimensions or any of the true specs.

I can imagine your regret in selling your family stone. My grandmother's diamond seemed enormous way back when, but after years on Pricescope it doesn't seem that large at all! Plus I have a large ring size, so compared to Phoenix's Holly for example, it won't look large at all!

I am going to look for your re-cut thread now.

They’re still in the process of being recut! I actually just got an email today updating me on how it’s going. Brian provided an initial estimate of what the carat weight and dimensions would be when finished and they wanted me to know that the factory is estimating a slight difference (about 5/100 carat per stone) and make sure I’m okay with proceeding.

I think there’s a few more weeks until they’ll be done. After that I’m having them sent to AGS for official grading (both so I have accurate color/clarity/carat stats and in case I ever decide to trade them in) and then mounted in some new settings.

So far the process has been seamless though and I’m confident I’ll receive a product I’m happy with (even if slightly smaller than I’d want, but that’s more the fault of the original poor cut than Brian’s correcting it!).

Oh, interestingly, these diamonds were originally graded “excellent” and “good” cut by GIA!

 

[kindred]

ILikeShiny, Are you having the stones cut as H&A? Did Brian give you more than one option for cutting? I am wondering if he would give me a AGS O (and possibly H&A) option along with another "improving cut but still maximizing size" option.

How long is the entire process with your diamonds expected to take?

I wish I had someone local to look at my diamond and advise me.

 

[BlingDreams]

ILikeShiny, Are you having the stones cut as H&A? Did Brian give you more than one option for cutting? I am wondering if he would give me a AGS O (and possibly H&A) option along with another "improving cut but still maximizing size" option.

How long is the entire process with your diamonds expected to take?

I wish I had someone local to look at my diamond and advise me.

Yes, they’re expected to be AGS000 when finished. They won’t guarantee it, but that’s what they’re aiming for (and predict will happen). I don’t think they offer a “good enough” cut, but it’s an interesting idea . I just don’t know how you could quantify it or agree upon parameters.

I was quoted 6-8 weeks for the cutting and then however long it takes for AGS to grade it. They’ll make my new settings while the stones are off being graded so the mounting time should be relatively short.

 

[kindred]

That's interesting. Southwest Diamond Cutters offers different cut qualities at different prices: Standard, Premium, Economy. I am sort of hoping that my ring might be ok with just re-polishing of the girdle.

6-8 weeks + must feel like an eternity when you are anxiously awaiting the results!

 

[BlingDreams]

6-8 weeks + must feel like an eternity when you are anxiously awaiting the results!

Yes, but I bought CZ ones to tie me over

 

[diamondseeker2006]

BG has the cutters cut the stones as close to ideal/H&A as possible. The diamond I had recut would not have made H&A, and I didn't even send it to AGS since it was under a carat after recutting and a famiy diamond I wouldn't be selling. It was MUCH better than it was before. I would not have a diamond recut to a modern round without sending to a vendor that buys from a H&A cutter/factory.

@kindred It's a shame because your diamond probably was an OEC originally. I like lower colors best in old style cuts. You could check with Jonathan at August Vintage if you'd like to explore that, but it is definitely more expensive. It's worth it to me, though, as I bought a stone that is O color and a recut from an old stone.

 

[SimoneDi]

I would absolutely recommend BGD for a recut. I have done three recuts with Brian Gavin, all three game back AGS Ideal for cut grade, two of them were AGS 000 and only only one had an excellent polish. I would contact them and have them issue you a fedex overnight label if you are worried about shipping. You just have to pay for it

 

[Wewechew]

That's interesting. Southwest Diamond Cutters offers different cut qualities at different prices: Standard, Premium, Economy. I am sort of hoping that my ring might be ok with just re-polishing of the girdle.

6-8 weeks + must feel like an eternity when you are anxiously awaiting the results!

Southwest diamond cutters recently fixed an OEC of mine that had a chip. I can’t say enough good things about them. Ashley is incredibly knowledgeable. (For what it’s worth I also spoke to BG before deciding on SWDC).

 

[PintoBean]

Speak to both BGD and Southwest. Get the quotes and see who's availability and turn around time fits your needs best.

 

[kindred]

I can't get the quote feature to function properly.

diamondseeker2006, I am not sure of the original cut of the diamond, but my grandmother said that it lost a lot of weight in the re-cut. I imagine it with a huge puffy crown and I wish that it had never been re-cut. I have wondered if I might be able to get it re-cut into an OEC, but I'm guessing that Brian Gavin wouldn't be the one to ask about that.

Wewechew, Your thread is the one that got me thinking about all of this again.

Does anyone know if it might be feasible for me to get a Sarin scan done and send the results to 2 or 3 different cutters for their advice about OEC vs. AGS 0, etc? I am not too far from Chicago to make a trip out of it. Is there someone with a Sarin machine in Chicago who might be willing to do a scan for me?

 

[PintoBean]

I can't get the quote feature to function properly.

diamondseeker2006, I am not sure of the original cut of the diamond, but my grandmother said that it lost a lot of weight in the re-cut. I imagine it with a huge puffy crown and I wish that it had never been re-cut. I have wondered if I might be able to get it re-cut into an OEC, but I'm guessing that Brian Gavin wouldn't be the one to ask about that.

Wewechew, Your thread is the one that got me thinking about all of this again.

Does anyone know if it might be feasible for me to get a Sarin scan done and send the results to 2 or 3 different cutters for their advice about OEC vs. AGS 0, etc? I am not too far from Chicago to make a trip out of it. Is there someone with a Sarin machine in Chicago who might be willing to do a scan for me?

I'm thinking an independent appraiser? But why spend that money if you can just ship it straight to the vendor and put that money towards the recut.

 

[kindred]

PintoBean, I was thinking that I could avoid having to send the diamond to multiple people for their opinions, like Brian Gavin for AGS 000 and someone else for old cut advice and potentially back to the cutter I choose. That could be a lot of shipping back and forth. I'm going to have to spend $150 just to get an appraisal so that I can mail with insurance, and then if I insure it with Jeweler's Mutual that would probably cost around $100 give or take. I was hoping to avoid all of that and just send scans, but I don't know if that's realistic.

 

[PintoBean]

PintoBean, I was thinking that I could avoid having to send the diamond to multiple people for their opinions, like Brian Gavin for AGS 000 and someone else for old cut advice and potentially back to the cutter I choose. That could be a lot of shipping back and forth. I'm going to have to spend $150 just to get an appraisal so that I can mail with insurance, and then if I insure it with Jeweler's Mutual that would probably cost around $100 give or take. I was hoping to avoid all of that and just send scans, but I don't know if that's realistic.

Before sending the stone anywhere get the quotes. I believe they charge per carat. And the availability and turn around time. Also, pricing aside, who's service style do you feel more comfortable with?

Also, is damage from a recut covered by insurance? I have heard mixed things. Please verify with JM.

I apologize if I'm being redundant and you've already covered all this.

 

[kindred]

I got my diamond appraised today. It was a rather frustrating experience and made me more grateful than ever for Pricescope and Pricescope vendors. And you folks with great local jewelers - NEVER take them for granted! It is a jungle out there.

Appraisal:
2.78 ct.
VS1
L
9.13 x 9.15 x 5.64
Thin girdle
No flourescence
Small chip along girdle
Depth 61.7%
He couldn't help with grading cut quality.
$17,000 (I overheard another guy say "This is a nice make, mark it at $20,000. I was concerned I would be overpaying for insurance so I talked him into putting down $17,000. He claimed that wholesale cost was more than $17,000 and that no-one in the whole country had an L available for sale.)

Before I start ranting, do the depth percentage or dimensions tell anyone anything? My brain is fried and I'm just wondering if any of the (limited) numbers I have make anyone lean one way or another on sending it to Brian Gavin for a recut evaluation.

Rant:
I thought it was going to be appraised by a GIA GG, but it turned out that that was not the case. The master diamond set he used does not have any colors between K and O, so he guessed on the color. There were so many things WRONG about this whole jewelry store experience that I might write a longer rant about it later.

Anyway, he said that I should just put the chip under a prong because it was too large to just be polished out. He said that I wouldn't notice any difference between Excellent and lower cut quality and that I would be crazy to do a full recut because it would fall below a magic quarter carat weight (2.75 in this case).

 

[LLJsmom]

Why don’t you just send it to BGD already and they will make it better. Much better. THen he will send to AGS for a report. So many people have been happy with BGD for a recut that you don’t even need to think about it. Of course you would want as well cut a diamond as possible. Otherwise why even bother with a recut?

 

[PintoBean]

I got my diamond appraised today. It was a rather frustrating experience and made me more grateful than ever for Pricescope and Pricescope vendors. And you folks with great local jewelers - NEVER take them for granted! It is a jungle out there.

Appraisal:
2.78 ct.
VS1
L
9.13 x 9.15 x 5.64
Thin girdle
No flourescence
Small chip along girdle
Depth 61.7%
He couldn't help with grading cut quality.
$17,000 (I overheard another guy say "This is a nice make, mark it at $20,000. I was concerned I would be overpaying for insurance so I talked him into putting down $17,000. He claimed that wholesale cost was more than $17,000 and that no-one in the whole country had an L available for sale.)

Before I start ranting, do the depth percentage or dimensions tell anyone anything? My brain is fried and I'm just wondering if any of the (limited) numbers I have make anyone lean one way or another on sending it to Brian Gavin for a recut evaluation.

Rant:
I thought it was going to be appraised by a GIA GG, but it turned out that that was not the case. The master diamond set he used does not have any colors between K and O, so he guessed on the color. There were so many things WRONG about this whole jewelry store experience that I might write a longer rant about it later.

Anyway, he said that I should just put the chip under a prong because it was too large to just be polished out. He said that I wouldn't notice any difference between Excellent and lower cut quality and that I would be crazy to do a full recut because it would fall below a magic quarter carat weight (2.75 in this case).

Why did you opt to bring it to a jewelry store instead of an independent appraiser?

 

[kindred]

PintoBean, I couldn't find an independent appraiser in my entire state. They are all associated with jewelry stores.

 

[kindred]

LLJsmom, You are right. I should mail it to Brian Gavin. I needed to get an appraisal first so that I could insure it. I didn't want to incur the cost of insurance and shipping both ways if anyone saw any red flags that made them say "don't bother".

I drove around 120 miles round trip to go to get this appraisal today. I tried to do some screening on the phone prior to going there but reality did not meet my expectations.

 

[kindred]

LLJsmom wrote:
"Of course you would want as well cut a diamond as possible. Otherwise why even bother with a recut?"

I was torn between just resetting the stone as is or getting it recut.

ETA- I showed my husband the picture that I posted/took of the diamond and he was horrified. He said I made the stone look terrible. He is a much better photographer than I am.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Sounds like you've had a busy day! And not to worry about your personal pictures--goodness knows we've all had challenges there. BTW, congrats on you winning the ruby in Bron's generous "silent auction".

You've had this ring a long time, no? https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-to-assess-re-cut-prospects.119070/. What a lovely piece to inherit.

FWIW--any question I pose here are rhetorical. For you to answer in your head...as I don't mind a no response.

1) What are your ultimate plans for the diamond? While you've stated that big rings are not what you find folks wearing locally, that is a variable for you to put on the table. Important/not important? Keep or not keep?

2) Reset a chipped ("VS1" is rather good with a chip grade making inclusion) or recut. If your ultimate plans are to wear, it is set already and wearable, while not to your taste. If your plans are to sell, then it might.

3) Diamonds in your color category are now very popular. I don't know what cut category your diamond is, but old cuts (tweeked for girdle nips) or MRB's recut to tight specs have a nice place on the market. Of course, they also have a nice place in your collection.

Thing is, you went to the appraiser because you are looking for step 2. You needed a valuation for shipping. This is where you can take some time to figure out "the where" (BGD, OWD, etc, etc). Ultimate plans and all.

cheers

 

[LLJsmom]

LLJsmom, You are right. I should mail it to Brian Gavin. I needed to get an appraisal first so that I could insure it. I didn't want to incur the cost of insurance and shipping both ways if anyone saw any red flags that made them say "don't bother".

I drove around 120 miles round trip to go to get this appraisal today. I tried to do some screening on the phone prior to going there but reality did not meet my expectations.

Oh I see. Well good for you for getting this part done. Now you can proceed. Can’t wait to see it after the makeover!

 

[LLJsmom]

LLJsmom wrote:
"Of course you would want as well cut a diamond as possible. Otherwise why even bother with a recut?"

I was torn between just resetting the stone as is or getting it recut.

ETA- I showed my husband the picture that I posted/took of the diamond and he was horrified. He said I made the stone look terrible. He is a much better photographer than I am.

Oh, I assumed that you wanted to wear it. Since you seemed very knowledgeable about cuts I assumed you wanted an ideal cut, or as close to it as you could get. Thus BGD seemed like an obvious choice. I do still feel that since you’re going to get it recut, go big or go home. I would think that you would lose more weight if you went from MRB to OEC. However if your love is an OEC, then I think the weight loss sacrifice is worth it. Would Jon at August Vintage be willing to do a recut for you? If you are just as happy with an MRB, I would go with BGD.

 

[BlingDreams]

My BG recuts are done and they came out exceedingly well. I'm still waiting to see them in person (they're at AGS getting re-graded and then will be set in earring studs) but the photos I was sent plus their new Sarin measurements let me know that not only did they go from "meh" to "WOW" visually, they also are now below 2 on HCA and will likely come back as AGS000

You can read about my experience, the process, photos of the before and after diamonds, plus Pre/Expected/Final measurements on this thread: https://www.pricescope.com/communit...recut-by-brian-gavin-before-and-after.242389/

 

[AnastasiaBeaverhausen]

@kindred Sorry if I missed this part, but was the stone unmounted when it was appraised and now you have the stone loose? If so, how do you like it now?