rand diamonds

[Kissingfish]

hi all..

I''ve a quick question.. I went into a jeweler the other day and they quoted me $9000 for a .50ct princess cut RAND diamond..
are they really above all other diamonds, or is it just a name thing?

Has anyone even heard of them, or are they just an australian brand?

 

[knuman]

Hi - I don''t think RAND diamonds are just an Australian thing. I saw Vivien''s Jewellers were marketing them but that was the only time I ever heard of them. I believe they are South African, and it has an unique "Provenance Report".

You can check it out for yourself here:

http://www.randbrand.com/

Even if $9000 is in Australian dollars that is still way too much for a 0.50 carat princess cut, regardless of how precise it has been cut. The most expensive 0.50-0.60 princess cut on PS is roughly AU$5365 - and that''s a D colour, IF diamond!

 

[kenny]

I really like the idea of the mine-to-finger report.
I am very very curious about my diamond's history, which seems shrouded in mystery.

Sellers/vendors don't seem happy to talk about where/whom they buy from.
I image some of this is to protect their business model or for security, but still I'm naturally very curious.

Rand prices are outrageous.
To me it sounds like the "value added" by the provenance report is tiny compared to the marketing hype.

 

[DBM]

Date: 11/23/2006 12:25:21 PM
Author: kenny

Sellers/vendors don''t seem happy to talk about where/whom they buy from.
I image some of this is to protect their business model or for security, but still I''m naturally very curious.

I''ll let you in on a little secret. It''s not that vendors are trying to protect or are worried -- they just probably honestly have no idea The process and "stages" of diamond production are so HUGE in nature that even the wholesalers don''t half the time know where the rough came from. If i buy a parcel of polished goods from an Israeli or Indian manufacturing plant there''s no telling where the rough came from-- Brazil, South Africa, Sierra Leone, Russia. It''s virtually impossible to trace.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 11/23/2006 12:34:55 PM
Author: DBM

It's virtually impossible to trace.

DBM,

I largely disagree with this. A well run dealer, as I’m sure you are, knows where they got every single stone in their inventory, when they bought it, from whom, and what they paid. If you added value, for example if you contracted a lab to examine it or had a cutter to repair it, you will know when you did it, what supplier you used, how much you paid and probably what results you were expecting and how it worked out for you. All of this is a matter of keeping business records and using reasonable accounting procedures.

The same is true for the cutting houses, the mining companies, the labs and each of the other players in the process. With the possible exception of very small melee type stones, I think a sensible cutting house knows exactly when, how and from whom they bought every single stone they process. They know what contractors or employees they used for various steps along the way, they know whether the work preformed measured up to their prior expectations and they know how much they paid at each step. This is all mandatory information if they are to buy wisely, choose the correct contractors and hire, train and equip profitable workers. A sensible mining company knows, at least initially, what mine produced each stone when, and quite possibly what section of the mine it came from, what techniques were involved and other details about the host rock, worker training and similar data that may help them to manage current and future production. They also know who they sold it to, how much they got, how they found that customer and when the bill was paid. This is all just good management and they would do it no matter what reporting the end consumers demand. This giant gap in the middle where they mining information isn’t shared through the cutting house with the consumer is traditional, but it’s not necessary.

Historically this data has not been deemed valuable to the end consumer and the mining companies, especially DeBeers, have chosen to keep it as a secret for some perfectly sensible business reasons. This is now changing. Customers are willing to pay a premium for diamonds with demonstrable provenance. In effect, this information is saleable, and it's saleable in a market where profit margins are shrinking in every other area. I fully expect this trend to continue because it’s not all that hard to provide and the customers, at least some of them, want it and are willing to pay for it. What we’re seeing with the South African and Canadian branding is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg. Mine-to-finger documentation is already here, it already sells well and the companies that provide it are already among the most profitable in their various segments of the industry. What's left is a haggling over the price and to work out the logistics.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[kenny]

Providing more provenance may be a smart response to the expected public reaction to the movie Blood Diamonds.

 

[VCalphy]

Hey Kissing Fish

I recently lost my e-ring and had to claim on insurance. To do this I had to get 2 quotes. The first one was from Diamond Exchange who were my first preference. I then got a 2nd quote from Viviens after they assured me that the "Rand" was a brand of ideal cut diamonds (thought I'd be a bit lazy, esp if they were ALL ideal). For a 1.23ct H SI1, they quoted me $18,800, assuring me that it was an absolute fireball and equal to the diamond I had lost.

The stats were:

Rand Diamond ring
Depth 62.1%
Table 56%
P Angle 41.0
Crown 15.5%
$18,800
H SI2, 1.23 ct


Lost Diamond ring
Depth 61.5%
Table 54%
CA 34.0
PA 40.6
$10,000
H Si2 1.35 ct

New Diamond ring
Depth 61.7%
Table 55%
Crown Angle 34.6
Pavillion Angle 40.8.
$14,000
1.52ct H SI2 (completely eye clean)

As you'll see if you run the figures through the cut advisor that the Rand did not even come close to the other two diamonds for performance, however was far more expensive. I eventually replaced my ring through the
Diamond Exchange. I must admit that the Rand's do look fabulous in the display, but with a bit of work, I was able to find something far more beautiful for much less cost (which I'm sure my insurers are happy about too).

Just quickly, I ran a search through Diamond Exchange's data base and came up with the following, all listed for far less than $9000. I don't know what the stats are but I'm sure they'll be happy to help if you email them.

N662I-7033 0.54 F VS2 75 70 ICE Ideal AGS $2,420.83
N662I-2133 0.55 F VVS2 74 68 ICE Ideal AGS $2,833.72
N662I-3133 0.60 E VS2 76 70 ICE Ideal AGS $2,833.72
N662I-1133 0.70 F VVS2 75 70 ICE Ideal AGS $5,269.38

Hope you find what you're looking for.

ps. Rand are a South African brand.

Viv. (Sydney, Australia).