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Radiant Cut Grading Help?

edwinf

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 5, 2016
Messages
5
Hey Guys,

I've been following this forum for a little bit and it seems like everyone is super helpful!

I about to buy an engagement ring and I prefer to take the risk of online vendors for the pricing.

Here's a little context:
My soon-to-be fiance wants a radiant shape on a thin pave band. Her ring size is about 4.25. She wants to wear the ring daily so she prefers not to have a center piece that's over 1.5ct.

Here are my preferences:
Budget: $10K-12.5 for loose diamond
Shape: Radiant, maybe Cushion
Carat: 1.3-1.5
Color: D-F
Clarity VVS1-VVS2, with fewest inclusions
Goals: Ideally, I want to optimize for cut and have the most possible brilliance/fire while optimizing all of the other Cs.
Concerns: Will a deeper Depth%, if all other proportions are ideal, affect the cut greatly? I'm specifically looking at a 70.3% Depth and 68% Table diamond.

This is what I've found:

All diamonds below have either Excellent or Very Good Symmetry and Polish. They also fall into my budget.

- 1.51ct / VVS1 / F / depth 65 / table 66 / LW 1.26 / Flr: None / Girdle: Med - Sl. Thk / Cutlet: None /
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/1.51-carat-f-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-988106
GIA
ww.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?reportno=2214448346&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&pagename=GIA%2FDispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547


- 1.38 ct/ IF / E / depth 70.3 /table 68 / LW 1.25 / Flr: None / Girdle: Thick / Cutlet: None (my top choice right now)
Video:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5q3lursx1kfjg4g/Video_8314237%20%281%29.wmv?dl=0
GIA
http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?pagename=GST%2FDispatcher&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&c=Page&cid=1355954554547&reportno=3225363907


- 1.39 ct / D / VVS2 / depth 67.8 / table 63 / LW 1.29 / Flr: None / Girdle: Thick / Cutlet: None
No GIA


-1.51ct / F /VVS1/ depth 67.1 / table 67 / LW 1.26 / Flr: None / Girdle: Thick / Cutlet: None
GIA: http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?reportno=2227039486&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&pagename=GIA%2FDispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

- 1.4 ct / F / VVS2 / depth 68.6 / table 68 / LW 1.33 / Flr: None / Girdle: Thick / Cutlet: None
https://www.brilliance.com/loose-diamonds/radiant/1-40-carat-f-color-super-ideal-make-vvs2-clarity-gia-certified-SKU-D1173563
Picture: https://www.dropbox.com/s/plpx26io2pnhj5t/1.4ct.jpg?dl=0

- 1.35 ct / F / IF / depth 69.7 / table 69 / LW 1.22 / Flr: None / Girdle: Thick / Cutlet: None
http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?pagename=GST%2FDispatcher&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&c=Page&cid=1355954554547&reportno=5116976423



Thanks so much for everyone's help in advance!
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
1. You cannot buy a radiant by the numbers. They are nothing like rounds. So posting just a lab report is meaningless.
2. No labs grade radiants for cut.
3. Vendor cut grades and scores are meaningless. So 'ideal' or 'excellent' ratings by vendors are actually more harmful than helpful.
4. You have to buy from performance and faceting.
5. That means pictures, videos and ASETs. ONLY followed by your own evaluation with your eyes once you see it.
6. Do not limit your options by table or depth. It's a waste of time with radiants. They have different facet patterns and the tables and depths can really be ANYTHING and still end up with a wonderful stone. Any one that advises you differently, except with respect to how depth affects spread, is full of it.
7. Requiring VVS clarity is frankly a waste of time and money. Radiants hide inclusions REALLY well. All you need is VS2. You are again, limiting an already limited pool (radiants are not popular right now) of options for no real reason at all. Unless your lady is of asian decent and she is requiring high clarity for cultural reasons. Otherwise, complete and utter waste of time and money.
8. You should consider G color as well.

I like this one: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5q3lursx1kfjg4g/Video_8314237%20%281%29.wmv?dl=0 You posted. See if vendor can provide an ASET for you.

I will look for you as well.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
I assume she wants a rectangular radiant not square one?

This is a gorgeous square one. https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/Radiant/GIA-Certified-1-6-Carat-G-Color-VS2-Clarity-Diamond-A6SQNE
Another gorgeous square stone: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/1.50-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-368836

I REALLY like this one, ask for an ASET: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/1.52-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-536095



The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king. With fancies though (anything other than a round brilliant), that is a little complicated. But no other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. Numbers tell you nothing about a Radiants however.
But if the numbers don't help you, how do you evaluate the cut of fancies? Well, the answer to that is light performance and faceting.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.

That's what an ASET image does. http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance Please read.
And ASET shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return That is why you won't see us recommending vendors like Blue Nile, as they do not provide images or ASET images for their diamonds. James Allen can do this, though not with all their stones. Good Old Gold and Brilliantly Engaged does this. So do Brian Gavin and Whiteflash and High Performance Diamonds, but they have to call fancies in, as they do not stock them regularly.

The only stats worth noting are:
Avoid very thin girdles.
And if the depth is very deep (for radiants high sixties and low seventies are normal. Anything over that is overly deep) it will affect spread. Which is why I you have to watch the spread not the carat weight.

The rest... meaningless. You can get a nice radiant with just about any combo of depth and table. And polish is nice to stick to Very Good, but I wouldn't kick a stone out because it has only good polish. And symmetry... not very important at all in Radiants.

You need to shop for BRIGHT stones with facets that are crisp and light up and flash well as they move.

Radiants are a LOT like EC's. See here:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gorgeous-kruppy-ec-for-the-brave-and-why-ec-numbers-lie.201227/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gorgeous-kruppy-ec-for-the-brave-and-why-ec-numbers-lie.201227/[/URL]

That stone pretty much breaks all the EC number guides. And yet it is a lovely stone with great performance. And as you can see... it's a stone that a number of people on PS would be happy to wear.

Fancies are not quantifiable. Asking me to recommend stats to you is asking me to give you bad advice.

Pick the 3 nicest stones that look the BRIGHTEST and whose facets turn off and on, so the stones dances with the light. You want contrast so again, you want some light and some dark facets, as long as all of them turn off and on, in a dance. Pick the ones with the faceting that appeals to you most. Keep in mind their spread (not carat weight). And just watch the videos a few times for each stone, stop and start them, watch them move carefully. And then when you know which ones you like... put them on hold at JA. And ask for ASETs. Hopefully they can get you one. If they can't... then I recommend you call GOG or BE and have them source you a nice stone.
 

edwinf

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 5, 2016
Messages
5

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
edwinf|1462844929|4029581 said:
Wow thank you so much. I've been spending time digesting all of your info.

I started ignoring the metrics, but unfortunately, I do have an Asian lady with fairly strict requirements. I through the numbers out of the window and lowered my grade a bit. I found this diamond and it looked exceptional.


I found this one, I really like the pop. What are your thoughts:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/1.43-carat-f-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-608301

Exceptional in what way? It's dead. It's not going to sparkle much at all.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Okay so you said a cushion is a possibility. Let's expand the search to best cushion and best radiant.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.40-carat-g-color-si1-clarity-sku-1031669 Lovely stone.

Pretty radiant: http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-8287418-1.40-carat-Radiant-diamond-G-color-VS2-clarity.aspx

Nice rectangular cushion: http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-8278889-1.31-carat-Cushion-diamond-F-color-VVS2-clarity.aspx

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-8287375-1.61-carat-Radiant-diamond-G-color-VS2-clarity.aspx

Very nice rectangular radiant. It's larger than you wanted, but radiants don't face up that big and this is fine for everyday wear: http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-8321409-1.84-carat-Radiant-diamond-H-color-VS1-clarity.aspx If you want a radiant, this is the nicest one I found across all vendors. So I recommend you put it on hold.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
I found a winner for you. This one faces up like a 1.5 carat (dimensions matter not weight, remember). The performance is great for a rectangular crushed ice radiant. And it's high color and clarity that you like.

I would be on the phone with the vendor ASAP and ask them to ship it to you the second it's available: http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-8151356-1.34-carat-Radiant-diamond-E-color-VVS2-clarity.aspx

I would get it set somewhere else. More on that in a minute.
 

edwinf

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 5, 2016
Messages
5
Hey Calypso.

You are so helpful and really seem to be the Yoda of all things diamond. I can't thank you enough. Please let me know if there's anything I can do for you.

My very last question. I LOVE the 1.34 diamond that you recommended. I'm a bit torn with this guy as well:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/1.51-carat-f-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-988106

If I've studied enough (which I haven't), this seems to have pretty good dimensions and should be alive (?). I asked for an ASET and they don't have one for this one. Any final thoughts?

Also any particular reason on the recommendation for the setting? It's a little pricey, but seems like a quality dealer. I'm just wondering if the quality is worth the effort of shipping back and fourth since I'm buying a loose diamond. :dance:
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
No ASET on a radiant is an auto-disqualify for me. Too many of them are dead.

Also that stone doesn't give you anything in terms of size. Weight yes. But in SIZE (dimensions) that stone is the same size as the 1.34.

7.48*5.95*3.87 is the size of that one. 7.52x5.78x3.69 is the size of the other one. So you are talking a TINY amount of width is the difference in size. That is NOT worth 3,000!!

Remember compare DIMENSIONS. NOT weight. That stone is not a good deal at all .

With a solitiare the setting is HUGELY important. Yes, it is worth the extra effort to make sure you get getting a gorgeous setting. That one also allows a flush fit band, which most settings for rectangular stones will not allow.
 

edwinf

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 5, 2016
Messages
5
Thanks Calypso! I bought the 1.34. Everything checks out pretty well, but B2C seems to have another diagram that has a discrepancy with the GIA certificate (dated 02/16). Note there's two more feathers than the GIA certificate and it appears that the cloud patterns indicate that this is the right stone. Since this is a VVS2, I don't think it's a big issue but I'm wondering possible reasons for the difference.Do you have any thoughts?

Also re: BGD setting. BEAUTIFUL! I was also considering this Ritani:
https://www.ritani.com/engagement-rings/french-set-diamond-band-engagement-ring-in-14kt-white-gold/10597

I think there's some benefits in working with a local jeweler if I buy the Ritani and it's a little cheaper. I'm trying to stay <$1500. Thoughts?
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198

edwinf

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 5, 2016
Messages
5
Hey Calypso,

Yes I did buy the 1.34. I understand the dimensions more clearly now. In fact, I'm seeing a lot of 1.5ct diamonds with smaller dimensions than this 1.34. Thanks for that info. Out of curiosity, what did you think of the ASET?
6ad533d5.jpg

I know that the Radiant ASETs are not like the RB. I see quite a bit of red relative to the other Radiant ASETs.

Can you tell me what you see?

Thanks in Advance :clap:
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
For a rectangular radiant it's a very strong ASET. :wavey: That and the faceting/image of the stone are why I recommended it. You want a lot of red and green in an ASET. And since that one is a computer generate ASET, I think the stone would ASET out even better with a different photographic set up.

I am glad you understand the dimensions issue. That stone has very good spread (dimensions) for its weight. Please post and tell us how you like it when you get it. I am hoping you are very happy with it.
 
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