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Quick question about halo setting

infantrytroop22

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
35
I just had a ring made and will be picking it up in the next few days, but I have a quick question I am hoping someone can help me out with. The ring has a halo setting, the center stone is a low F, and the diamonds around the halo and the band are all D/E. In the bright lighting of the store, the center stone looks slightly more yellow than the halo stones. However, outside in natural light, the stones look to be the same color. The jeweler told me that he used stones for the halo that are slightly whiter than the center stone in order to enhance the appearance of the center stone color. Does anyone have any thoughts on whether this is the proper way to chose the halo stones? Any help would be much appreciated.
 
I always heard that the halo melee should be one or two colour grades off from the centre stone (either higher or lower) so that the centre stone stands out so that sounds right to me!
 
yiska|1297288527|2847940 said:
I always heard that the halo melee should be one or two colour grades off from the centre stone (either higher or lower) so that the centre stone stands out so that sounds right to me!

So you heard that the halo stones can be either higher or lower color...that seems kind of odd. I would think one way or the other would be better and the accepted practice.
 
Someone with more experience may correct me but yes, I think it's more the contrast between the stones that is important, as long as it isn't too much of a difference then it can be either way.
 
It is interesting that the jeweler went the other way, i.e. up in the color of the halo diamond color. From my experience most companies offer G color stones in the side and or halo stones and usually you would have to request, usually at a cost, a higher color for those stones. Personally, with an F center, I would have preferred the halo to be G's or maybe F's, not D/E.
 
Hello Infantry,

Is your center diamond GIA or AGS certified ? ( "I am not sure what you mean by low F " )
Otherwise the side diamonds color should have no noticeable difference being colorless.
 
Chris-at-ERD|1297291594|2847984 said:
Hello Infantry,

Is your center diamond GIA or AGS certified ? ( "I am not sure what you mean by low F " )
Otherwise the side diamonds color should have no noticeable difference being colorless.

It is EGL certified as F, but is on the lower end of F. There is no noticeable difference outside in natural light, but there is a slight difference under the lights in the jewelry store.
 
EGL certified diamonds are more lienient with their grading system... so that I suppose has something to do with what you are noticing.
 
Chris-at-ERD|1297303180|2848111 said:
EGL certified diamonds are more lienient with their grading system... so that I suppose has something to do with what you are noticing.

Right. I had it certified and the gemologist told me that it was an F, but that it was on the lower end of the F spectrum. Like I said, the jeweler said they chose white stones on purpose to make the center stone appear whiter. So I am trying to figure out whether this was the right way to do it.
 
As far as I am aware F-G color melee is usually standard even if center is I-color or J-color
 
Chris-at-ERD|1297304840|2848131 said:
As far as I am aware F-G color melee is usually standard even if center is I-color or J-color

So then am I okay with a D/E melee with an F center. Like I said, I can only really see the difference in the store light (not the UV light they use, but just the lighting used to light up the entire store).
 
Anyone know how it will look in other light? It looks fine outside, but the center stone looks more yellow than the halo stones in the jeweler. What about inside the mall, in other stores, etc?
 
The optics of small melee, and of a larger center stone, are just different and even with an exact color match they won't appear the same- the smaller melee just look whiter in most lights.

I don't know about their theory about using whiter melee to make the center stone look whiter- that's kinda bass-ackwards IMO, but there isn't that big of a color difference it sounds like, so it's kind of moot. What I mean is- the D/E melee isn't going to make the center stone *look whiter* but nevertheless they chose a good color match. Melee should be within 1-2 colors of the center for a good match, and yours is, so that's good.

You will probably notice the *appearance* of a color difference in some lights more than others. Intense spotlighting particularly- well cut center stones tend to go dark in strong spotlight or sunlight (while throwing intense fire), while melee doesn't really. That's the optical difference between the two sizes of diamond again. Other lights will equalize the two more, probably more diffused lighting like an overcast day for example.

Yssie can explain this better than I can... hopefully she'll see this thread if you want a more coherent explaination :cheeky:
 
LGK|1297316777|2848288 said:
The optics of small melee, and of a larger center stone, are just different and even with an exact color match they won't appear the same- the smaller melee just look whiter in most lights.

I don't know about their theory about using whiter melee to make the center stone look whiter- that's kinda bass-ackwards IMO, but there isn't that big of a color difference it sounds like, so it's kind of moot. What I mean is- the D/E melee isn't going to make the center stone *look whiter* but nevertheless they chose a good color match. Melee should be within 1-2 colors of the center for a good match, and yours is, so that's good.

You will probably notice the *appearance* of a color difference in some lights more than others. Intense spotlighting particularly- well cut center stones tend to go dark in strong spotlight or sunlight (while throwing intense fire), while melee doesn't really. That's the optical difference between the two sizes of diamond again. Other lights will equalize the two more, probably more diffused lighting like an overcast day for example.

Yssie can explain this better than I can... hopefully she'll see this thread if you want a more coherent explaination :cheeky:

yeah yssie is good at explaning this. LGK I am with you, I am not sure why they used D/E melee, I would have thought to use F/G, but I doubt it makes too much of a difference :)
 
LGK|1297316777|2848288 said:
You will probably notice the *appearance* of a color difference in some lights more than others. Intense spotlighting particularly- well cut center stones tend to go dark in strong spotlight or sunlight (while throwing intense fire), while melee doesn't really. That's the optical difference between the two sizes of diamond again. Other lights will equalize the two more, probably more diffused lighting like an overcast day for example.

So the center stone will look darker, yellower, or both, or are they synonymous? I just remember thinking that my center stone was really white when I picked it out (compared it to other stones in the store, etc.), but when I saw it in the setting I just thought, oh, I guess it isn't as white as I thought.

Yssie, if you see this I would love to hear your thoughts as well.

Thanks everyone.
 
I went and looked at a GIA F with an F/G halo and the halo seemed to make the center stone look a little yellow as well. I guess it is just the way halos make the center stones look. I still don't really understand why they used D/E stones in making my ring, but I talked to a gemologist that I really trust and he said that's normal. I am taking it to him tomorrow to have it appraised and I will see what he says.
 
Anyone else have any thoughts? I am heading to the appraiser in a few hours.
 
Change of plans. I am having the ring redone because there was a slight blemish. Now I can choose exactly what stones to use on the band and halo melee. My stone is on the lower end of F, so what color stones should I opt for in the band and halo?
 
infantrytroop22|1297452341|2849452 said:
Change of plans. I am having the ring redone because there was a slight blemish. Now I can choose exactly what stones to use on the band and halo melee. My stone is on the lower end of F, so what color stones should I opt for in the band and halo?

IMO, F or G. G will face up white and be cheaper, unless they won't charge you for the upgrade.
 
infantrytroop22|1297288322|2847939 said:
I just had a ring made and will be picking it up in the next few days, but I have a quick question I am hoping someone can help me out with. The ring has a halo setting, the center stone is a low F, and the diamonds around the halo and the band are all D/E. In the bright lighting of the store, the center stone looks slightly more yellow than the halo stones. However, outside in natural light, the stones look to be the same color. The jeweler told me that he used stones for the halo that are slightly whiter than the center stone in order to enhance the appearance of the center stone color. Does anyone have any thoughts on whether this is the proper way to chose the halo stones? Any help would be much appreciated.

A low F ????? OMG! Who can see difference between E and F with naked eyes? Even experts have difficulty under normal light.
 
Jr22|1297452489|2849454 said:
infantrytroop22|1297452341|2849452 said:
Change of plans. I am having the ring redone because there was a slight blemish. Now I can choose exactly what stones to use on the band and halo melee. My stone is on the lower end of F, so what color stones should I opt for in the band and halo?

IMO, F or G. G will face up white and be cheaper, unless they won't charge you for the upgrade.

Price is not an issue. I just want to get what will look best with a low F.
 
Did you know that you are insulting thousands of women speaking in a low F? The majority of diamonds sold on the planet are G H and I. I do not think an F is a low as you persist to say.
 
stci|1297453511|2849471 said:
Did you know that you are insulting thousands of women speaking in a low F? The majority of diamonds sold on the planet are G H and I. I do not think an F is a low as you persist to say.

I didn't mean that the color was low. I was trying to illustrate that the diamond is an F, but it is on the lower end of F, so that people could get a better idea of the color difference between my center stone and the halo melee diamonds, which are D/E.

*LATEST UPDATE: Since the ring has to be re-made anyway, I am now having the jeweler use F diamonds for the halo melee and ring instead of D/E. I figure those are a better match for the F center stone.
 
huh. No explanation forthcoming from this end - seems kinda - evasive - to me too.. :?

infantry - long story short LGK explained what you will see - larger stones and significantly smaller stones (like 1-10pointers say) of even the same colour will look and perform significantly differently in various lights.

I STRONGLY recommend you go out and look at some halos in-person before you have them alter it as per your last update, and make sure you are going to be okay with the apparent difference in colour (actually a difference in optics that your eyes read as "colour difference"). Melee stones in your halo are going to be so tiny that actual body colour of de vs. fg vs. ij won't make a whit of difference, so just go out and see if your eyes like/tolerate/dislike the difference between the way the centre and halo stones look.


If you want more background Lula's thread has a good discussion on this https://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=144474#2521133

Or if you want the summary version
A) Larger stones have larger facets. Each facet is always doing something - returning "white" light, returning "coloured" light, leaking light (light escape through some other facet rather than reflecting inside the stone and bouncing back to you), or obstructing (going dark because it's directly reflecting your head/body), and when the stone is large enough (say 0.3, 0.4?) your eyes can actually make out each individual facet, and see which of those each facet is doing. The stone looks to have high contrast (like a chessboard alternates black and white) and those contrast patterns change as you move relative to the stone. The stone is lively and changing...
B) Tiny stones have tiny facets that your eyes can't actually see - or make out what each is doing. To your two eyes Bright + Less-Bright = Bright, Bright + Dark = Bright, so if one tiny little facet is Bright your eyes will just understand Bright Area, and they won't notice any nearby dark areas. You lose any contrast pattern - the stone just looks like a white dot, as LGK said
C) RB with high optical symmetry will have larger avg facet size than an RB of same proportions with poor optical symmetry. An RB with high optical symmetry will also have greater difference in facet size (some huge, some tiny) than an RB of same proportions with poor optical symmetry.
D) No diamond is ever actually throwing out white light - when light refracts out of the stone back to your eyes red refracts at a shallower angle than blue, so light is always dispersed. If 1)the energy of the refraction is sufficient that the light actually reaches your eyes and 2) adjacent dispersions don't combine back into white before they reach you then you'll see colour, otherwise you see white - so smaller facets inherently contribute to "white" light return.. and a smaller centrestone with poor optical symmetry might seem more "similar" to your halo than a large H&A. But I think a great many people like the difference in looks, or they don't notice ::)
 
The center stone in the Halo is a GIA certified E color and the melee in the halo and in the side are G color

The diamond in the ring next to it is a AGS certified D color. Side diamonds are F color

MMAJ2.JPG
 
Yssie|1297459181|2849566 said:
I STRONGLY recommend you go out and look at some halos in-person before you have them alter it as per your last update, and make sure you are going to be okay with the apparent difference in colour (actually a difference in optics that your eyes read as "colour difference"). Melee stones in your halo are going to be so tiny that actual body colour of de vs. fg vs. ij won't make a whit of difference, so just go out and see if your eyes like/tolerate/dislike the difference between the way the centre and halo stones look.

Thanks for the great explanation. I think I understand what you are saying, but since they are redoing the ring for me anyway (for another reason) doesn't it make sense to use F/G instead of D/E? In other words, even if I won't really be able to notice is a difference doesn't it still make sense to use stones closer in color to my center stone (which is F), rather than D/E? There will be no greater cost or inconvenience either way. Is there any conceivable advantage to using D/E stones rather than F/G when the center stone is a lower end F? The jeweler told me that using D/E will make the center stone look more yellow in bright light (e.g., jewelry store lighting), but that the ring would "just look better" in normal light.
 
infantrytroop22|1297465624|2849665 said:
Is there any conceivable advantage to using D/E stones rather than F/G when the center stone is a lower end F?

No. I would certainly have them use the f/g over the d/e.

The jeweler told me that using D/E will make the center stone look more yellow in bright light (e.g., jewelry store lighting), but that the ring would "just look better" in normal light.

Well maybe your jeweller is one of the ten people on the planet who could see the difference in body colour between an E and an F face-up in 1-2pointers once set...or maybe there's an overall difference in quality beyond lower colour? Sometimes a vendor will use higher colour melee as a sort of catch-all term for higher quality - better cut, better clarity (as in, actually clear), higher colour - you'll want to double-check that if you choose lower colour melee that doesn't mean lower overall quality.
 
infantrytroop22|1297465624|2849665 said:
Yssie|1297459181|2849566 said:
I STRONGLY recommend you go out and look at some halos in-person before you have them alter it as per your last update, and make sure you are going to be okay with the apparent difference in colour (actually a difference in optics that your eyes read as "colour difference"). Melee stones in your halo are going to be so tiny that actual body colour of de vs. fg vs. ij won't make a whit of difference, so just go out and see if your eyes like/tolerate/dislike the difference between the way the centre and halo stones look.

Thanks for the great explanation. I think I understand what you are saying, but since they are redoing the ring for me anyway (for another reason) doesn't it make sense to use F/G instead of D/E? In other words, even if I won't really be able to notice is a difference doesn't it still make sense to use stones closer in color to my center stone (which is F), rather than D/E? There will be no greater cost or inconvenience either way. Is there any conceivable advantage to using D/E stones rather than F/G when the center stone is a lower end F? The jeweler told me that using D/E will make the center stone look more yellow in bright light (e.g., jewelry store lighting), but that the ring would "just look better" in normal light.

Infantrytroop, take a look at the photo I posted. E center, G halo, if you can see any discernible difference then you are bionic. I have 20/12 vision and color sensitive and I can not tell the difference, there is just too much metal that reflects. Also remember G will face up white. I think you are getting too stressed about it.
 
Yssie|1297469208|2849695 said:
infantrytroop22|1297465624|2849665 said:
Is there any conceivable advantage to using D/E stones rather than F/G when the center stone is a lower end F?

No. I would certainly have them use the f/g over the d/e.

The jeweler told me that using D/E will make the center stone look more yellow in bright light (e.g., jewelry store lighting), but that the ring would "just look better" in normal light.

Well maybe your jeweller is one of the ten people on the planet who could see the difference in body colour between an E and an F face-up in 1-2pointers once set...or maybe there's an overall difference in quality beyond lower colour? Sometimes a vendor will use higher colour melee as a sort of catch-all term for higher quality - better cut, better clarity (as in, actually clear), higher colour - you'll want to double-check that if you choose lower colour melee that doesn't mean lower overall quality.

I made sure that he is going to use the same quality in every aspect except color. So basically, the ring will probably look the same if he uses F/G instead of D/E, but since there is no point in using D/E it makes sense to use F/G, right? Or is there a chance that the center stone won't look quite as yellow if F/G is used? I know most probably wouldn't notice, but I am crazy when it comes to this stuff.
 
infantrytroop22|1297470226|2849705 said:
Yssie|1297469208|2849695 said:
infantrytroop22|1297465624|2849665 said:
Is there any conceivable advantage to using D/E stones rather than F/G when the center stone is a lower end F?

No. I would certainly have them use the f/g over the d/e.

The jeweler told me that using D/E will make the center stone look more yellow in bright light (e.g., jewelry store lighting), but that the ring would "just look better" in normal light.

Well maybe your jeweller is one of the ten people on the planet who could see the difference in body colour between an E and an F face-up in 1-2pointers once set...or maybe there's an overall difference in quality beyond lower colour? Sometimes a vendor will use higher colour melee as a sort of catch-all term for higher quality - better cut, better clarity (as in, actually clear), higher colour - you'll want to double-check that if you choose lower colour melee that doesn't mean lower overall quality.

I made sure that he is going to use the same quality in every aspect except color. So basically, the ring will probably look the same if he uses F/G instead of D/E, but since there is no point in using D/E it makes sense to use F/G, right? Or is there a chance that the center stone won't look quite as yellow if F/G is used? I know most probably wouldn't notice, but I am crazy when it comes to this stuff.

the change - if melee is of the same quality - will make absolutely no visible difference whatsoever, IMO. BUT mind-clean is a powerful thing, and I think it would be more mind-clean for you if you choose f/g melee.
 
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