Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Quick Divorce Help for Friend

Jambalaya, she was a gentle soul and the stress of going through the courts was more than she could take on top of the divorce.
Of course he could not have gotten the child, but he could have made her life miserable. He was a high level attorney, well connected in the community and she had recently moved there to marry him.
In her case it seemed wise for to cut her losses and move on. Fortunately she was well off and had a prenup.
Your poor friend going through this twice!
 
Agree with all. Thanks, everyone, for the good sense. Jimmianne - my friend is the same, a gentle soul and the stress is more than she can handle so she wants it done. She has done just about all the parenting this year, too - he's hardly had them overnight at all - so she has had to deal with the kids' shock and heartbreak at their father walking out on them all two weeks before Christmas. They take it out on each other and just fight horribly all the time.

Partgypsy - that's great advice. And Austina, yes, you totally deserve the same deal as your friend if you got divorced. Working inside the home and raising children are every bit as valuable as the monetary contribution by the one who works outside the home for pay. The trouble comes when divorce happens and men don't want to share 50/50, or they use the law to get at his ex, like the example of the DA here. I'm starting to think everyone should have a pre-nup. At least that way there are no surprises during a divorce and everyone knows what everyone's getting if it all goes south.

By the way, I want to make clear that the credit cards were in HIS name only. They weren't joint cards. He took them out without her knowing. That's why I'm shocked that she has to take on half the debt. And it's debt that was incurred by his affairs. So she is going to be paying for his mistresses' meals, holidays, etc. It's not enough for her to be hurt more can she could ever have imagined, as she said to me recently. Now she has her nose rubbed in it by paying for the money he spent on his women.

I cannot believe the unfairness of that.
 
Life isn't 'fair' and neither is divorce.
 
It sounds like she had a shitty lawyer.

It sounds like she had an even shittier husband.

I’m glad she’s free of the both of them. Hopefully she gets some help so that she doesn’t attract the same kind of man into her life. We repeat the same relationship mistakes over and over again until we learn.
 
Your secind to the last paragraph describing your friend likely summed it up....she did not stand up for herself....sorry

FM
 
@House Cat , I agree!

I think I read something about her having difficulty with the kids (sorry if I'm wrong, skimmed posts quickly last night). Yes, yes, I'm a Mom and know that all kid are different, it can be hard dealing with them, etc., but, rightly or wrongly, it made me think she might want to consider how she allows people to treat her - men, children, everyone. A person can be 'nice' without allowing others to take advantage of them, be disrespectful, etc.

By the way, in my Province/Country (Canada), mediation is not mandatory.
Years ago, I read that mediation is not advised if there was abuse in the relationship.
I agree with this.

Being informed about the risks associated by choosing to be a SAHP doesn't address the risks of having a career, being the highest earner, etc. And, the real issue, in my opinion, is about making a decision to marry and who one chooses as a spouse. Does that remove all risks associated with marriage? Of course not.

@FinleysMom , just saw your post - yes, you said it more succinctly than I. =)2
 
Jambalaya said:
Thanks, Kbell. I have more time now. I just googled about divorce in MA, and I found this quote from this link: https://www.divorcenet.com/resource...perty-division/massachusetts-divorce-dividing

While only property that a couple acquires during marriage is “marital property,” Massachusetts law allows a judge to divide all of a couple’s property in any manner that seems fair, regardless of when it was acquired or which spouse actually owns it--in other words, the judge can divide both marital and separate property.

Perhaps in MA it depends how long you were married. Was it a short/medium length marriage? If so, I'd guess it would be easier to keep assets separate.
Click to expand...

Jambalaya said:
Kbell, for how long were you married? What I was describing above, regarding 401Ks, was the law only if you had been married over ten years. The thing about being put back the way you were before marriage applies, I thought, to shorter marriages/no kids.

But perhaps it's all changed since I got divorced.

Yes, she has a lot of people looking out for her because she's such a lovely person.

I need to win the lottery so I can give her a few million.

Nice fantasy!
Click to expand...

Under 10 years no kids. A friend got divorced though after 10+ years. She was not a SAHM though she worked. Child support only, no alimony. She kept the home but it was on her family's land - she still had to buy him out. Shortly after, her X had another child with another woman. He went to court to have his child support to her reduced and won. No alimony to either party.

I am sure judges do have some discretion if the parties take it that far. The worst divorce in the history of divorces was my friends. They were married less than 1 year then separated but had 2 children together (twins). It took over 5 years to get the divorce finalized. Countless court dates over every little thing. Civil suits filed against her, her atty, the police, & family members by her X. Talk about a nightmare. They do the hand offs for visitation at a police station and my friend has a relative do it because she has a restraining order against him. He got 1/2 her accumulated 401k, etc - everything that accumulated during their very very short marriage and he had nothing to take so she got nothing. She won full custody. He was ordered to pay minimal child support for 2 kids which he doesn't pay. I just don't know how some men get away with being such losers while others are thrown in jail for not paying. So even though on paper she won the judgement - it's still an ongoing saga which will not end until the kids are adults.

I guess my point is - sometimes it's better for the sake of everyone to come to an amicable agreement. If both parties can agree and be happy moving forward, it's better than the never ending bitter battle which could ensue. Divorce is emotionally draining even when civil. A bitter, drawn out fight can be emotionally crippling.
 
I agree that the biggest risk is who you choose as a life partner. Both people lose money in a divorce. That's just the way of it. You go from one household with a set number of assets, to two households each with half as much. Plus lawyer and court fees and child support payments if you end up being the non-custodial spouse with visitation.

The reason men have historically talked about their ex-wives "taking them to the cleaners" is because in traditional gender role relationships, the men earn the money, they buy the house, they pay for the cars, they have all the power, their needs are the ones that are catered to, and they therefore don't feel that their wife should be entitled to any of the assets that they worked for post-divorce (and there you go, she gets half plus child support - no fair!). But women often out earn their husbands now, and they also often end up losing half a house they maybe they alone contributed to (or disproportionately contributed to), or retirement savings, or pensions. They also get stuck with credit card debt too sometimes. Personally I think everyone loses financially in a divorce. I understand that this is sometimes worth the price for freedom though.

And yes, being a SAHP with no marketable skills is hugely risky. It makes you dependent and powerless to leave if you have to, and vulnerable if you are left. I also think there's a different power dynamic if you don't earn your own way.
 
[QUOTE I am sure judges do have some discretion if the parties take it that far. The worst divorce in the history of divorces was my friends. They were married less than 1 year then separated but had 2 children together (twins). It took over 5 years to get the divorce finalized. Countless court dates over every little thing. Civil suits filed against her, her atty, the police, & family members by her X. Talk about a nightmare. They do the hand offs for visitation at a police station and my friend has a relative do it because she has a restraining order against him. He got 1/2 her accumulated 401k, etc - everything that accumulated during their very very short marriage and he had nothing to take so she got nothing. She won full custody. He was ordered to pay minimal child support for 2 kids which he doesn't pay. I just don't know how some men get away with being such losers while others are thrown in jail for not paying. So even though on paper she won the judgement - it's still an ongoing saga which will not end until the kids are adults.

I guess my point is - sometimes it's better for the sake of everyone to come to an amicable agreement. If both parties can agree and be happy moving forward, it's better than the never ending bitter battle which could ensue. Divorce is emotionally draining even when civil. A bitter, drawn out fight can be emotionally crippling.[/QUOTE]

Kbell - what you describe above sounds horrible indeed. People tear themselves apart in cases like that, don't they? Five years to settle the divorce! I find it amazing that he got half her 401k when the marriage lasted less than a year. Was that in Massachusetts too? I looked up divorces in that state and there's a set formula for alimony based on the length of the marriage. Had my friend divorced in MA, she'd have got almost nine years of full alimony instead of 3.5 yrs decreasing alimony. (Of course, that's if you get alimony at all. I believe it's only awarded when there's a large discrepancy between the spouses' incomes.)

It's crazy how much each state differs, and how much difference that can make to your life - simply depending on where you live. Crapshoot!
 
cmd2014 said:
I agree that the biggest risk is who you choose as a life partner. Both people lose money in a divorce. That's just the way of it. You go from one household with a set number of assets, to two households each with half as much. Plus lawyer and court fees and child support payments if you end up being the non-custodial spouse with visitation.

The reason men have historically talked about their ex-wives "taking them to the cleaners" is because in traditional gender role relationships, the men earn the money, they buy the house, they pay for the cars, they have all the power, their needs are the ones that are catered to, and they therefore don't feel that their wife should be entitled to any of the assets that they worked for post-divorce (and there you go, she gets half plus child support - no fair!). But women often out earn their husbands now, and they also often end up losing half a house they maybe they alone contributed to (or disproportionately contributed to), or retirement savings, or pensions. They also get stuck with credit card debt too sometimes. Personally I think everyone loses financially in a divorce. I understand that this is sometimes worth the price for freedom though.

And yes, being a SAHP with no marketable skills is hugely risky. It makes you dependent and powerless to leave if you have to, and vulnerable if you are left. I also think there's a different power dynamic if you don't earn your own way.
Click to expand...

Totally agree, cmd. Divorce sucks. Well, some people manage to have happy, positive divorces, but I think they're in the minority.

Not sure about there being a different power dynamic if you don't earn your own way...power is about self-confidence and self-belief. And also, if SAHPs made a spreadsheet of how much it would cost for the earning spouse to buy all the services they provide (I'm talking domestic, not sexual!!!) like full-time cook, driver, housekeeper, life manager, nanny/many etc...well, oftentimes the cost of those services from professionals would well outstrip the SAHP's salary!
 
A friend of mine (female) made more $$ than her husband....he sat on his butt. She now pays HIM alimony! Kids are grown...he has 3 years of alimony then it is done. They were married 20 some years.

FM
 
december-fire said:
Life isn't 'fair' and neither is divorce.
Click to expand...

I know, but divorce laws are supposed to make things as fair as possible. I just can't believe she's going to be paying for the other women's meals, holidays, etc. And I do think that after 12 years of home-making, she deserves a longer alimony term than 3.5 years decreasing. She gave up a TON of money when she trusted him, stayed home, and gave away free domestic labor that would have cost him a fortune to buy in. Divorce laws are supposed to put things right as far as they can, and I don't consider that term to be compensatory or a sincere attempt to even things out. However, I don't know the amounts involved, and for all I know her attorney negotiated kick-ass child support - which of course will go on much longer than the alimony.

I know of someone whose husband had an affair with a co-worker. He left his wife, married the co-worker, and stopped working...and her child support/alimony payments came to her bank account from the bank account of his new wife. So the other woman was handing out to her. Talk about humiliating. At least my friend doesn't have to face anything like that.
 
Last edited:
House Cat said:
It sounds like she had a shitty lawyer.

It sounds like she had an even shittier husband.

I’m glad she’s free of the both of them. Hopefully she gets some help so that she doesn’t attract the same kind of man into her life. We repeat the same relationship mistakes over and over again until we learn.
Click to expand...

I know this is true, HouseCat, and I hate that it's true, because so many of us find these choice-patterns to be extremely hard to break. My friend has now had two long-term serious relationships where both of the men just walked all over her. She really is too gentle and nice. Her family members are all lovely, too. We grew up in the same small town, so I knew them well. I guess the same thing will happen to her until she stands up for herself. With the divorce, I think this year has been the hardest and most stressful of her life, and that she just wanted it DONE. I hope she gets something of the retirement savings that were earned during the marriage. And since it was over ten years, she'll get half his Social Security if it's more than hers and if she never remarries, so that's something, at least. (The gov pays out half again, so he doesn't lose half.)
 
FinleysMom said:
Your secind to the last paragraph describing your friend likely summed it up....she did not stand up for herself....sorry

FM
Click to expand...

Right. I just think she's on the floor with stress after this year and would probably do anything at this point to just move forward. It's been 2-3 years of total crap with him at this point, and I think parenting on her own this year, and dealing with all the fall-out, has been really, really hard for her.
 
FinleysMom said:
A friend of mine (female) made more $$ than her husband....he sat on his butt. She now pays HIM alimony! Kids are grown...he has 3 years of alimony then it is done. They were married 20 some years.

FM
Click to expand...

Oh yes...the higher earner pays, no matter the gender. What state was this in, as a matter of interest?
 
cmd - regarding what you wrote about everyone losing...Yes, my friend and her husband go from a really nice family house with a pool and their children close to them both all the time, to two small apartments and both of them seeing less of the kids. It's all just so sad. I wish people didn't have to hurt each other so much. And you're right what you say about your choice of partner being so important...the trouble is, you can think you made a great choice but what I've seen over the years is that some people change as they get older, and not always for the better. And also, people can be VERY unpredictable, and you can't predict which ones! Conversely, I know a couple of men who were the worst ladies' men you've ever seen, arrogant, all the rest of it. Well, they've now all been married approx. twenty years now, devoted family men with wives who seem very happy. Seems you just can't tell about people - or perhaps I'm just a crappy judge of character.

I'm not sure I'd marry again. I think I'd rather keep my independence and just see someone a lot, stay over 2-4 times a week but not entangle our legalities and wordly goods!
 
Without reading anything but the original post:

She seems to be getting a fair settlement -- 18 months in the house, then (presumably) 1/2 the equity, child support, and 3 years of alimony.

Regarding the pension -- that is not an asset from their marriage and is therefore untouchable.

Regarding debt -- yes, any debt accrued during marriage is joint. My mother also had to take on half the debt when she divorced her husband.

Child support -- for an income over a certain amount, there is no cap. This can be quite high and can also include the requirement to pay for college. (Also allows for child care so that she can work, medical care, etc above and beyond the fixed payment)

Alimony -- I have no personal experience here, but a co-worker has alimony. This can be rather generous and can often be extended of paperwork is filed. The three years will give her time to get back to full time work.


As to how divorce works now -- it stinks! My DH got the clothes he was wearing and the beat up old car. His ex got TWO houses, brand new car, etc. My mother got nothing notable in her divorce and is living in her parents' driveway now.

Mediation vs court -- court stinks. DH had mediation and got nothing. His ex went to court for more a couple of years later and it was even worse (and there were lots of attorney fees).
 
nala said:
This. 100 percent in agreement. I want to add that I chose to have only one child Bc that is all I knew I could ever afford in terms if money and time and sanity. Call me jaded, but I learned early on to only rely on myself.
Click to expand...

I understand, Nala. I would probably do the same if I had a mind to have children and was younger.
 
TooPatient said:
Without reading anything but the original post:

She seems to be getting a fair settlement -- 18 months in the house, then (presumably) 1/2 the equity, child support, and 3 years of alimony.

Regarding the pension -- that is not an asset from their marriage and is therefore untouchable.

Regarding debt -- yes, any debt accrued during marriage is joint. My mother also had to take on half the debt when she divorced her husband.

Child support -- for an income over a certain amount, there is no cap. This can be quite high and can also include the requirement to pay for college. (Also allows for child care so that she can work, medical care, etc above and beyond the fixed payment)

Alimony -- I have no personal experience here, but a co-worker has alimony. This can be rather generous and can often be extended of paperwork is filed. The three years will give her time to get back to full time work.


As to how divorce works now -- it stinks! My DH got the clothes he was wearing and the beat up old car. His ex got TWO houses, brand new car, etc. My mother got nothing notable in her divorce and is living in her parents' driveway now.

Mediation vs court -- court stinks. DH had mediation and got nothing. His ex went to court for more a couple of years later and it was even worse (and there were lots of attorney fees).
Click to expand...

Hey, TP!

I don't know if she'll get half the equity or not, and I don't know what she got regarding the 12 years of retirement earnings during the marriage. I have a co-worker who was divorced in FL and she said that custody is 50/50 and it's very difficult to change that. However, my friend really, really didn't want to do 50/50 so she negotiated 60/40, and I imagine she had to make some compromises to get that.

How come there was such an uneven split in your DH's marriage? It's hard to see how any judge can sign off on an agreement where one gets an old car and the other gets two houses and a new car. Was the marriage super-short or something, and the parties just took back what they had before marriage?

And what's the story with your mom? Was that also a short marriage?

I always thought divisions were more likely to be 50/50 the longer the marriage. If these WERE long marriages, I just don't know how one person came away so short-changed, unless they represented themselves, or something.
 
Jambalaya said:
Hey, TP!

I don't know if she'll get half the equity or not, and I don't know what she got regarding the 12 years of retirement earnings during the marriage. I have a co-worker who was divorced in FL and she said that custody is 50/50 and it's very difficult to change that. However, my friend really, really didn't want to do 50/50 so she negotiated 60/40, and I imagine she had to make some compromises to get that.

How come there was such an uneven split in your DH's marriage? It's hard to see how any judge can sign off on an agreement where one gets an old car and the other gets two houses and a new car. Was the marriage super-short or something, and the parties just took back what they had before marriage?

And what's the story with your mom? Was that also a short marriage?

I always thought divisions were more likely to be 50/50 the longer the marriage. If these WERE long marriages, I just don't know how one person came away so short-changed, unless they represented themselves, or something.
Click to expand...

My mom...

Her marriage to that ex lasted just over 10 years. They had also lived together for over 7 years prior to that.
The house they had at the time had more owing than it was worth due to the value dropping after they refinanced and got cash out to buy some motorcycles he wanted. There wasn't much to divide and he wanted to make her suffer. He is not a healthy person to be around! She had a bit more originally drafted then he threatened to take it to court if she wouldn't give over more. She couldn't afford that so let him have the rest. For idea sake, he makes about $60,000/year and she was making about $20,000.


DH....

That was ugly. Married 5 years. To keep it short, he didn't want to go to court and have their kid have to go through more upset. She wanted money. He kept giving in on money in exchange for more visitation and stuff for his daughter to be comfortable.
 
My husband and I have settled into quite a happy state of being married but living in two separate houses in different states. We cannot go on like this indefinitely as it is far too expensive. (We have to sell the house, but no we do not have to divorce.) He is in our jointly owned five bedroom house set on 2 1/2 acres with a heated swimming pool, jacuzzi and waterfall plus a double garage. I am in a cramped tiny house with no garage and our mentally ill daughter. But we do not argue, we get together for the holidays and family occasions, we share our finances, and we support each other for medical appointments. At one point (seven years ago) he filed for divorce. He thought he was going to leave me with what I had earned as a private school teacher and social worker before I raised our child. I saw a very high priced attorney. When my husband heard what he was actually going to get if we split, the word "divorce" became a word that scared the pants off him. I have been cool as a cucumber since then. I do not fear divorce at all and am happy alone.

AGBF
 
HI Jamba:

After reading the thread, I now understand you are the friend needing the quick help. Very good of you to reach out to process your feelings. Sometimes close friends are like family ergo what affects them affects us. Take care.

cheers--Sharon
 
TooPatient said:
My mom...

Her marriage to that ex lasted just over 10 years. They had also lived together for over 7 years prior to that.
The house they had at the time had more owing than it was worth due to the value dropping after they refinanced and got cash out to buy some motorcycles he wanted. There wasn't much to divide and he wanted to make her suffer. He is not a healthy person to be around! She had a bit more originally drafted then he threatened to take it to court if she wouldn't give over more. She couldn't afford that so let him have the rest. For idea sake, he makes about $60,000/year and she was making about $20,000.


DH....

That was ugly. Married 5 years. To keep it short, he didn't want to go to court and have their kid have to go through more upset. She wanted money. He kept giving in on money in exchange for more visitation and stuff for his daughter to be comfortable.
Click to expand...

I hope your mom finds somebody nice to date who appreciates her!
 
AGBF said:
My husband and I have settled into quite a happy state of being married but living in two separate houses in different states. We cannot go on like this indefinitely as it is far too expensive. (We have to sell the house, but no we do not have to divorce.) He is in our jointly owned five bedroom house set on 2 1/2 acres with a heated swimming pool, jacuzzi and waterfall plus a double garage. I am in a cramped tiny house with no garage and our mentally ill daughter. But we do not argue, we get together for the holidays and family occasions, we share our finances, and we support each other for medical appointments. At one point (seven years ago) he filed for divorce. He thought he was going to leave me with what I had earned as a private school teacher and social worker before I raised our child. I saw a very high priced attorney. When my husband heard what he was actually going to get if we split, the word "divorce" became a word that scared the pants off him. I have been cool as a cucumber since then. I do not fear divorce at all and am happy alone.

AGBF
Click to expand...

Well, it doesn't seem like there are any guarantees in divorce, Deb, given the stories I'm reading here! Perhaps your husband wouldn't lose as much as you think....it seems to be a total crapshoot and also very dependent on which state you file in.

The current situation sounds very workable at present, but what if either of you meet someone else?
 
canuk-gal said:
HI Jamba:

After reading the thread, I now understand you are the friend needing the quick help. Very good of you to reach out to process your feelings. Sometimes close friends are like family ergo what affects them affects us. Take care.

cheers--Sharon
Click to expand...

Yes, we've known each other since we were children and I've held her hand through this. We've had phone calls looong into the evening and have also lent my support while at work if she texted needing some kind words after a confrontation with her ex. When she wanted to overlook his affairs and try to work it out, I supported her, and when she filed for divorce I supported that, too. She is like family and I really thought this couple would go the distance, before her husband lost his mind. Despite being divorced, I'm a romantic and I'd like to believe in marriage, and this couple were so romantic. He proposed on an ice rink, got down on one knee in his skates although neither could skate, and I remember when they were dating and he took her to Paris for dinner on a riverboat for her birthday. I was so happy for her after that other horrible relationship. They had a sign by their door that said "You are my favorite hello and my hardest goodbye."

It's just sad, that's all. I think part of me was hoping that he'd come to his senses before things got this far.
 
@Jambalaya you are being a really good friend, and I’m not saying this will happen, but just want to tell you what happened to me.

I supported my friend through her long divorce, was always available to her, she’d come and cry on my shoulder, ring constantly, want me to go out to lunch with her, go for coffee (tea in my case!) shopping, basically keep her company, even though there were many times it wasn’t really convenient. My DH was very understanding, helped her sort out her finances etc. After it was all over, she’d moved in to her own place, this continued for a while, then nothing. She stopped calling, dropping by, etc. She didn’t NEED me anymore.
 
Austina said:
@Jambalaya you are being a really good friend, and I’m not saying this will happen, but just want to tell you what happened to me.

I supported my friend through her long divorce, was always available to her, she’d come and cry on my shoulder, ring constantly, want me to go out to lunch with her, go for coffee (tea in my case!) shopping, basically keep her company, even though there were many times it wasn’t really convenient. My DH was very understanding, helped her sort out her finances etc. After it was all over, she’d moved in to her own place, this continued for a while, then nothing. She stopped calling, dropping by, etc. She didn’t NEED me anymore.
Click to expand...

I'm so sorry, Austina! Did the friendship ever regain some balance?
 
Jamba--you are good friend! She is fortunate to have your support.
Getting the financials of the divorce mediated is one hurdle. She will have many more.
She, and her children, will have to adjust to her returning to FT work. Thankfully they do not have to sell the home for 18 months so that gives them a little breathing room.

Just out of curiosity---is her ex a mid-to-late 40's guy? Is he having a stereotypical mid-life crisis? If this is the case, there is the possibility that after he gets done partying and spending (and has to start paying maintenance and child support) he will decide he wants to reconcile. Just a heads up.

Long term--the hardest part of divorce for many is having to continue having contact with ex regarding the kids and visitation. That can be really tough, especially if he is being difficult to deal with.

Continue to be her sounding board---she really needs it!
 
Jambalaya,

Sometimes I think people have a hard time seeing things when picking partners because it’s an emotional, not logical, decision. And we want them to be who we want them to be, so ignore what might be red flags sometimes. But sometimes people surprise us too, for good and bad.

As for the power dynamic, you present a fairly idealistic view. The truth is that almost no one hires out cooking, cleaning, laundry, child care (other than day care), so without a SAHP, most people would just do that stuff themselves. So it’s a false economy to argue the cost of hiring that out. My experience is that whoever has the money typically gets the greatest say in how it’s spent (not just in marriage). If you need someone more than they need you, that’s a power difference. If they will be fine without you but you can’t say the same, they can leave; you can’t. So you end up having to accept things that they don’t. Dependency isn’t a relationship of equals. It’s why we have laws to protect the vulnerable (employees, children, the sick, the elderly, etc.).
 
No @Jambalaya I haven’t heard from her for over a year. I assume she’s moved on to another friend. I had seen her do this before, but, I’m the kind of person who always tries to be there for their friends. Their failings are theirs, not mine.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
GET 3 FREE HCA RESULTS JOIN THE FORUM. ASK FOR HELP
Jewelry Blog
PriceScope-Concierge-Ad
Find prime cuts.
Top