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Questions re: oval diamond: inclusions, fluorescence, bowtie

johnwinters

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
4
Hi all,

This is my first time to this forum and it seems like a really good source of information - thank you in advance for any guidance! Here is my situation: I have been researching stones for months, and recently purchased a diamond from Blue Nile, with the intention of taking it in to jewelers to get their opinions on it and compare it to their stones, before finalizing the decision (I have 30 days to return it to Blue Nile for a full refund).

Here is what I have in hand: 1.85 ct, D color, VS2, medium blue fluorescence. I included a photo below under magnification - here is the link to the stone on Blue Nile: http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD06141143.. Overall, I think the stone is beautiful, is proportioned the way I want, and I am leaning towards keeping it after having 'shopped it around.' I have 3 specific questions for this community:

1. As you can see on the GIA report, there are a number of inclusions. None of these are visible at all to the naked eye, and I can't spot any of them. However, any jeweler I bring it to immediately discounts it, because they can see the inclusions under magnifications...but they are obviously trying to sell me their own stones. My general philosophy has been to not pay extra for a level of flawlessness that I can't see, and that my girlfriend won't care about - but I want to get the opinions of people here. Should I care about these inclusions even though I can't see them? Some jewelers have said that they won't sell any stone that has a cavity, which feels extreme to me...but maybe I should think about that? How would you think about the flaws on this particular stone?

2. This stone has a medium blue fluorescence. I can barely tell - I notice a bit of a bluish tint if under direct sunlight, but it doesn't bother me at all. My research has told me that at most, the ring may appear slightly blue in a club under a black light. Is there any other reason to be wary of medium blue fluorescence on a D color stone?

3. Lastly, the bowtie. As I understand it, every oval will have some degree of a bowtie or another, it's just a matter of minimizing it. On this stone, I can't see any bowtie unless it's under direct sunlight - in that case, I see some darkening across the middle, and at the tips. But, I have seen the same exact effect on every oval diamond I have seen at jewelers in my area. So my question is - does this bowtie effect inevitably show up on any oval diamond, or is just that I haven't found that special oval that doesn't have any bowtie effect, even when viewed under direct light? After all the ones I've seen, I'm thinking that it's just something I'll have to live with in certain lights if I choose an oval (which I know my girlfriend wants), but I would love any input.

Many thanks in advance for any guidance!


ld06141143_1.jpg
 

Diamondbug

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
906
Re: Questions re: oval diamond: inclusions, fluorescence, bo

johnwinters said:
However, any jeweler I bring it to immediately discounts it, because they can see the inclusions under magnifications...

This only matters if you plan to walk around with a loupe :lol: As long as you cant see the inclusion and its mind clean for you than I think its great!! I have an eye clean SI2, SI1 and I1 and I love that I can loupe my stone after getting it cleaned/worked on and confirm that it is still my stone. ..... cant comment on the cavity since I've not had an experience with it.

Did you confirm with blue nile that the medium fluor ok? It should be sice it is just med flour but I cant judge from the photo. I have strong blue and I love it. I bought my stone from Blue Nile too. They do not provide ASET or IS so for my peace of mind I sent the stone to an appraiser... and not just any appraiser but to Neil Beaty, a well respected independent PS appraiser that is NOT trying to sell me a stone :)) You might want to send it to an appraiser too. It is a big purchase and you should feel confident about it. It was money well spent for me.
 

johnwinters

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
4
Re: Questions re: oval diamond: inclusions, fluorescence, bo

Thank you for the quick response!

What do you mean when you say I should confirm with Blue Nile that the medium fluorescence is ok? It looks ok to me, but I am obviously not a professional, and I have never seen it under blacklight or anything like that.

Thanks again so much.
 

Diamondbug

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
906
Re: Questions re: oval diamond: inclusions, fluorescence, bo

Usually PSer will recommend buyers to ask the vendors to confirm that the flour in the stone is not making the stone appear over blue, milky or oily ( which is rare).Usually happens in stones with strong/very strong flour. But I am sure its not coz if it was, the other jewelers would have already pointed it out to you.
 

solgen

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 10, 2015
Messages
563
Re: Questions re: oval diamond: inclusions, fluorescence, bo

You can see the mushiness/some light leak under the table but it's not that bad. I don't really see any bowtie effect which is pretty rare. Looks like it has a number of carbon inclusions that look real ugly under magnification but like you said it's eye clean. On paper or looking at it under a loupe and I'm sure people will bad mouth it. But as long as it looks good in person under your normal viewing circumstances then that's all that matters.
 

johnwinters

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
4
Re: Questions re: oval diamond: inclusions, fluorescence, bo

Thanks all for the responses!

I think I am comfortable at this point with the inclusions (visible under magnification but not with the naked eye) and the medium blue fluorescence (does not bother me).

I do want to follow up on the bow tie - as solgen mentioned, you cannot see it in the photo, and in most lights there is no bow tie whatsoever. My primary concern is that under direct sunlight, it looks very sparkly, but it also does show darkening across the belly, and at the tips. As I mentioned, I went into one jeweler who showed me 5 different ovals and all showed the darkening effect under direct sunlight.

So, I am just trying to get my head wrapped around this: have I done pretty well since the darkening is only noticeable under direct sunlight? Or are there some ovals out there that will not show this darkening in the sun? I'm just concerned that any time she wears it out it'll show some darkness and she'll be self conscious about it.

Thank you!!
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
Re: Questions re: oval diamond: inclusions, fluorescence, bo

Get the stone unset. See what you think of it.

See how it performs. Then set it if you like it.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
24,614
Re: Questions re: oval diamond: inclusions, fluorescence, bo

1. If you cant see it and it doesnt cause any kind of structural issue, then I dont worry about it.
2. That level of fluorescence should not be an issue.
3. Bow-tie - I tend to say if you like the way it looks then not to worry. Have you looked at other ovals like JA to see some of
the other faceting patterns just for comparison?
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.86-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-264100
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.79-carat-f-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-564747 not sure on the light return on this
one, I wish the facets were a little crisper.
 

apacherose

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 19, 2014
Messages
1,315
Re: Questions re: oval diamond: inclusions, fluorescence, bo

Tyty: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.86-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-264100 :lickout: What an elegant shape. Can you just imagine the finger presence?

johnwinters: since you have your diamond in hand, you yourself can tell if there are any negative effects from the flouro, you do not need to ask the vendor anything. If you do want a professional second opinion, do, as suggested, go to an independent appraiser.

The other jewelers are only being mean to your diamond and its inclusions because they want you to buy their stones.

I think you got a pretty nice diamond for buying sight unseen! That said, I myself prefer the faceting patterns on the diamond examples tyty posted, but that is just personal. They look like twinkly stars to me. I love that yours does not have much of a bowtie, and 'D' color with flouro is kind of cool.

For what it is worth, now that we have some diamond buying experience, my husband and I both think clarity is the last thing we care about in a diamond, and, that if we can't see it, why pay for it. But not everyone feels that way, and we did not at first. Especially my husband, who kind of went silly when he realized a 'feather' was a crack. A lot of money to pay for a diamond with a crack in it, haha.

Anyways, you definitely are doing your due diligence and I hope you post your ring, as I am sure it will be lovely.
 

johnwinters

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
4
Re: Questions re: oval diamond: inclusions, fluorescence, bo

Thanks all for the responses! I'll keep you posted on how this turns out. The more stones I see, the more I think that all ovals are going to show some darkening across the belly and at the tips under very bright light or direct sunlight.
 
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