Questions about the re-cutting process

[Yimmers]

I was recently gifted a diamond ring from my MIL. This ring was given to her by her FIL. It is an extremely gracious gift, and I want to give it to my future daughter (who's currently baking ) This has been a milestone year, given our long struggle with infertility and big birthday year.

I have taken a gander of the diamond as well as I could through the Idealscope. There appears to be leakage. There is some fire, but I cannot make out any symmetrical arrows. Of course, PS has made me a cut nut, and so I'd like to have this cut into an ideal spec and eventually pass it along as a family heirloom. DH is fine with my suggestion as I intend to keep this within the family.



The pictures are a little misleading - the diamond is set very high, so it appears larger than my AVR, but IRL, I think it's just a smidgen smaller in diameter. I have no paperwork, so I have no idea of the specs.



The table seems really huge, or maybe I'm just used to my AVR.

Regardless, not having ever looked into recuts, what can I expect in the process? Note - I intend to keep this as a MRB.
Should I have it appraised prior to sending it off? I do intend to have it certified/appraised after a recut.
Does anyone other than BGD and HPD do recuts?
Is the charge per carat or by some other form of measurement?
How long should I expect it to take?

I am curious so that I can plan out and factor what I will need to set aside to complete this process. I will also likely reset, but would prefer to see what I end up with before deciding on a setting.

Thanks!

 

[kindred]

I am looking into a recut of a family ring right now. I plan to take the ring to an appraiser (hopefully today) and have them unmount the diamond and appraise it. I really want to see what my daimond's color looks like outside of it's massive yellow gold setting.

I am not sure if I will purchase jewelry/diamond insurance right away, but at least I will be able to insure with USPS once I have an appraisal. Recut charges are based on the beginning carat weight. You'll have to contact cutters directly to get an estimate of time needed. You seem to be starting out with a nice large size, so hopefully you'll still have a nice size once it is recut.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

BG charges by the weight of the stone. When I had mine done several years ago, it was $350 per carat, but I don't recall what the price is recently. They like you to send the stone so they can evaluate whether the stone is a good recut candidate. I'd just talk with them before doing anything else. They may say they'll send you an insured shipping label to send the stone and add that to the bill, or else you'll have to get an appraisal to insure and send to them by USPS Registered Mail.

It is well worth doing and I hope it works out!

 

[SimoneDi]

Ditto DS. I have done 3 recuts with BGD and all of them have come back beautiful! You can certainly ask them for an insured FedEx label and just pay the cost of the label. It is worth the peace of mind imo. Please make sure that you have a recent appraisal for the value of the ring.

Once they have the stone in hand, they will be able to evaluate it and estimate a possible recut. My last recut was at $350 per carat and you can also expect to spend $250 plus insurance if you are to grade it with AGS.

Very generous of your MIL to give you this ring and congratulations on your little miracle!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Simone reminded me that I did not opt for getting mine AGS graded. It was a family stone and ended up at only .80 cts., so there was no real reason to spend another few hundred sending it for grading since it would never be sold.

 

[Yimmers]

I am looking into a recut of a family ring right now. I plan to take the ring to an appraiser (hopefully today) and have them unmount the diamond and appraise it. I really want to see what my daimond's color looks like outside of it's massive yellow gold setting.

I am not sure if I will purchase jewelry/diamond insurance right away, but at least I will be able to insure with USPS once I have an appraisal. Recut charges are based on the beginning carat weight. You'll have to contact cutters directly to get an estimate of time needed. You seem to be starting out with a nice large size, so hopefully you'll still have a nice size once it is recut.

Kindred, are you going to do a thread about the process? I'd be interested in seeing yours turn out!

 

[Yimmers]

DS and SimoneDi,

Looks like the consensus is to get the ring appraised before I send it out for a possible recut. But thanks for the heads up about contacting BG to chat first. I had not realized that getting the AGS cert would be another $250. Looks like this is lining up to be a $600 project or more. But since I've never had an ideal cut, it would certainly be nice to make this one, if it's a good candidate. Thanks for the tips!

Yimmers
P.S. Thanks for the sweet words, SimoneDi!

 

[BlingDreams]

Awww, congratulations on your little miracle!! I hope you have an easy pregnancy and delivery

As for your recut, I just went trough the process with BGD. You can read about my experience, outcome, and the process here - https://www.pricescope.com/communit...recut-by-brian-gavin-before-and-after.242389/

And here was the initial exchange of information when I first inquired about the process (note that I’d already sent the the GIA appraisal of my diamonds, and “fully insured“ refers to actual insurance, not just shipping insurance):

The process for recutting is as follows:
1. The diamonds needs to be fully insured prior to sending it in
2. The charge to recut is $450 per carat based on the starting weight of each appdiamond + FedEx priority overnight shipping/insurance back to you.
3. You will need to send in your diamond first to be evaluated by Brian. There is no charge for the evaluation.
4. He will provide you with feedback and reports to substantiate his predictions.
5. If you decide you do not want to proceed, all you pay is the return shipping.

Good luck with it all!

 

[Yimmers]

ILikeShiny - OMG, I saw that thread and it completely went over my head about your experience with the recutting process. Duh! I think the only annoying part that I can foresee is that I will get it appraised, and then have to get reappraised after it is recut. I don't even know if this diamond is certified. I don't have a loupe with enough power to check for a number.

Thanks for the pregnancy blessings - I have been going through the usual pregnancy issues such as heartburn, fatigue, and that "shortness of breath" feeling. However, morning sickness was really just more nausea/dry heaving vs actual vomiting. So, not exactly the most comfortable, but it can be a whole lot worse!

 

[BlingDreams]

ILikeShiny - OMG, I saw that thread and it completely went over my head about your experience with the recutting process. Duh! I think the only annoying part that I can foresee is that I will get it appraised, and then have to get reappraised after it is recut. I don't even know if this diamond is certified. I don't have a loupe with enough power to check for a number.

Thanks for the pregnancy blessings - I have been going through the usual pregnancy issues such as heartburn, fatigue, and that "shortness of breath" feeling. However, morning sickness was really just more nausea/dry heaving vs actual vomiting. So, not exactly the most comfortable, but it can be a whole lot worse!

I’m glad it helped, and just a note that having it recertified after the re-cut is optional. I wanted it for my edification as well as if I ever want to trade them in/up in the future; it’s easier and more accurate to have it done when they are un-set.

 

[Yimmers]

But if I have it appraised pre-cut, I would have it insured for that stone, rather than one re-cut, right? Then again, this is an heirloom, so to the extent something happens, it's really not replaceable. Hmmmmmm...

 

[Bron357]

I just want to say “congrats” to you and your husband for your “baking” baby girl.
I had just the one, after we’d given up too btw, a girl as well.

 

[BlingDreams]

But if I have it appraised pre-cut, I would have it insured for that stone, rather than one re-cut, right? Then again, this is an heirloom, so to the extent something happens, it's really not replaceable. Hmmmmmm...

I’d just take the new info from the recut, figure out comps, and insure for that amount.

 

[ringo865]

The appraisal before isn't the same as the certification afterwards.

First, an appraisal will tell what weight and other stats, and put a monetary value on it for insurance purposes.

Then, you get it recut.

Afterward, IF YOU WANT, have it sent to AGS who will do a thorough (and globally recognized) reporting of many physica details (and light ray tracing) and will give it a "grade".

Appraisers are not labs. They just give your insurance company a number to equate for payout if something happens. Lab reports are more valuable, especially if your stone becomes an AGS 000, it would likely be worth more and would be prudent to get like-for-like on a replacement.

 

[BlingDreams]

The appraisal before isn't the same as the certification afterwards.

First, an appraisal will tell what weight and other stats, and put a monetary value on it for insurance purposes.

Then, you get it recut.

Afterward, IF YOU WANT, have it sent to AGS who will do a thorough (and globally recognized) reporting of many physica details (and light ray tracing) and will give it a "grade".

Appraisers are not labs. They just give your insurance company a number to equate for payout if something happens. Lab reports are more valuable, especially if your stone becomes an AGS 000, it would likely be worth more and would be prudent to get like-for-like on a replacement.

I just want to note that BG gives you a Sarin report after your recut, so it’s very accurate for dimensions and weight. But, it won’t give an official color or clarity. For that you’d need to refer to your prior cert (but sometimes those can change with recuts!).

 

[WinkHPD]

But if I have it appraised pre-cut, I would have it insured for that stone, rather than one re-cut, right? Then again, this is an heirloom, so to the extent something happens, it's really not replaceable. Hmmmmmm...

In the pre recut version, they would indeed be very difficult to replace the item as there is very limited supply of the older cut diamonds still in the older cut style. There are much fewer of them that are well cut, but if you had well cut older style stones there would be little, if any, reason to have them recut.

If you have a report issued on the diamond after the recut, especially when you are having the diamond recut to the standards of a BGD, having that report on the diamond will then set the bar much higher for the quality of cutting that an insurance company can force you to accept for a replacement.

My advice would be to have the diamond(s) graded by the appropriate Lab, in the case of a BGD recut by AGS. Then when you have the diamond(s) appraised, you can make sure the appraiser lists the quality grade of the cut on the report. This way, if anything does happen, you are not going to be stuck accepting any old steep/deep GIA XXX as a replacement.

Take the lab report(s) to an appraiser and be sure that all of the information and the report number of the report is included in the appraisal.

One never wants to have to replace a diamond, but if you need to, be sure it will be replaced with a diamond that is the appropriate cut quality.

Wink

 

[BlingDreams]

In the pre recut version, they would indeed be very difficult to replace the item as there is very limited supply of the older cut diamonds still in the older cut style. There are much fewer of them that are well cut, but if you had well cut older style stones there would be little, if any, reason to have them recut.

If you have a report issued on the diamond after the recut, especially when you are having the diamond recut to the standards of a BGD, having that report on the diamond will then set the bar much higher for the quality of cutting that an insurance company can force you to accept for a replacement.

My advice would be to have the diamond(s) graded by the appropriate Lab, in the case of a BGD recut by AGS. Then when you have the diamond(s) appraised, you can make sure the appraiser lists the quality grade of the cut on the report. This way, if anything does happen, you are not going to be stuck accepting any old steep/deep GIA XXX as a replacement.

Take the lab report(s) to an appraiser and be sure that all of the information and the report number of the report is included in the appraisal.

One never wants to have to replace a diamond, but if you need to, be sure it will be replaced with a diamond that is the appropriate cut quality.

Wink

You said this so much clearer than I did. Thanks for chiming in @Wink!

 

[denverappraiser]

Be aware that most insurance underwriters will NOT bind a policy on an unmounted stone. That is to say, if you have it taken out for evaluation, you will not be able to insure it until the project is completed and you have it set in a piece of jewelry. If the goal is insurance through the process, have it evaluated within the limits of the setting, before it's removed. Don't have the appraiser take it out in order to examine it.

Regardless of what you do on the front end, after the cutting you're going to want to have it graded by the appropriate lab, and then after setting you're going to want to have it appraised by a competent appraiser. This will be the final document that will be the become part of your insurance.

 

[WinkHPD]

You said this so much clearer than I did. Thanks for chiming in @Wink!

You are very welcome. It just makes sense to me that if someone of Brian Gavin's integrity and stature is cutting the diamond, then it needs to be properly appraised and insured so that the quality of his workmanship is protected.

Wink

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Not all of us insure all our diamonds. So in my case, it doesn't matter at all that I don't have the AGS report for my recut stone. If something happened to it, I wouldn't be replacing it because I only keep it for sentimental reasons.

 

[Yimmers]

Be aware that most insurance underwriters will NOT bind a policy on an unmounted stone. That is to say, if you have it taken out for evaluation, you will not be able to insure it until the project is completed and you have it set in a piece of jewelry. If the goal is insurance through the process, have it evaluated within the limits of the setting, before it's removed. Don't have the appraiser take it out in order to examine it.

Regardless of what you do on the front end, after the cutting you're going to want to have it graded by the appropriate lab, and then after setting you're going to want to have it appraised by a competent appraiser. This will be the final document that will be the become part of your insurance.

Oh, wow, Neil, I didn't know that! My appraiser has always evaluated in the setting, but I've always had the lab report for her to compare and use. Thanks for the information!

 

[Yimmers]

You are very welcome. It just makes sense to me that if someone of Brian Gavin's integrity and stature is cutting the diamond, then it needs to be properly appraised and insured so that the quality of his workmanship is protected.

Wink

Wink, you bring up a good point. If I'm going to insure this, then I should have it graded after the recut, but not bother with it beforehand. It would make sense if I'm going through having it recut to BG's standards that I preserve my ability to get something similar should anything happen to the ring. My husband has already warned me that if I lose this ring, his mother would be really upset...so, I think I should insure it for good measure.

Thanks Wink and everyone, this has all been very informative.

Thanks, Bron - it's been a long journey with a lot of ups and downs. We ended up using ART to make our family. I'd ask DH for this recut/reset project be my push present...except that he wants to get me a new range...and I really like to bake.