Questions about Silver vs. Gold for colored stone rings

[T L]

I'm hearing conflicting information for silver vs. white gold. For example, one website says that silver is harder and doesn't scratch as easily and the other says that it is softer than gold and scratches more.

I also would like to know for those people that use silver for their colored stone rings, what are the positives/negatives of using that metal vs. white gold. I do understand that silver tarnishes, but keeping these rings in a tarnish free box is my solution for that sort of issue. I have one of those, and my silver rings did not tarnish.

Is it also harder to set stones in silver as well?

Thanks in advance.

 

[VapidLapid]

Unalloyed silver and gold are about the same in hardness. any other comparisons would have to consider what alloys you want to use.
properly made and work hardened both can be durable. 999 fine silver will not tarnish as easily as sterling, and will look most like white gold, but will need to be skillfully wrought and work-hardened. Otherwise, the setting issues are the same.

 

[chrono]

It depends on the purity (and alloy used) of the metal. Both are soft metals but 14K gold is only shy of 60% gold and SS is 92% pure silver, which makes SS, in this case, the softer metal. Secondly, many benches do not feel comfortable dealing with silver and thus will not accept any repair or setting work.

 

[T L]

Thanks VL, and thanks Chrono.

Chrono,
Not sure why some benches refuse to work in silver since the setting issues may be the same. It might be a "gold snobbery" sort of thing because many will work in platinum, and I've seen more damage done to gems with the use of platinum than any other metal.

I used to go to a jeweler that absolutely refused to work with silver, or set synthetic stones, or set gems in settings that had synthetic stones (like CZ), but they would work with platinum and gold.

I currently use a jeweler that will set anything in just about anything, so I'm lucky. I just obtained my first silver mounting because the price of gold is absolutely ridiculous, and even though gold prices went down, many jewelers are not adjusting for that deflation in price. As much as I love gold, it tees me off, so I'm looking at silver as an alternative.

 

[chrono]

I don't think the issue is metal snobbery but cost and the difficulty of working with silver. From what I know, silver is more difficult to work with than gold. Not only that, the jeweller can charge more for the same work (easier work and less time involved) in gold than in silver, so that is another dis-incentive.

 

[bcavitt]

I currently use a jeweler that will set anything in just about anything, so I'm lucky. I just obtained my first silver mounting because the price of gold is absolutely ridiculous, and even though gold prices went down, many jewelers are not adjusting for that deflation in price. As much as I love gold, it tees me off, so I'm looking at silver as an alternative.

Just playing devil's advocate, but the reason that many jewelers may not be adjusting for price is that the inventory they are offering may have been bought at $1700-$1800 gold and they can't afford to take the markdown?

 

[T L]

I currently use a jeweler that will set anything in just about anything, so I'm lucky. I just obtained my first silver mounting because the price of gold is absolutely ridiculous, and even though gold prices went down, many jewelers are not adjusting for that deflation in price. As much as I love gold, it tees me off, so I'm looking at silver as an alternative.

Just playing devil's advocate, but the reason that many jewelers may not be adjusting for price is that the inventory they are offering may have been bought at $1700-$1800 gold and they can't afford to take the markdown?

You may be right, but as a consumer, I've seen some jewelers buy gold at today's prices, and not charge less. If you're doing custom work, many jewelers buy the gold at today's prices to work on the custom piece. I can see that more for in stock items that they purchased many months ago when gold was at it's peak.

 

[T L]

I don't think the issue is metal snobbery but cost and the difficulty of working with silver. From what I know, silver is more difficult to work with than gold. Not only that, the jeweller can charge more for the same work (easier work and less time involved) in gold than in silver, so that is another dis-incentive.

I don't know, according the VL, the setting difficulty is the same, (is it???).

The thing is that I started going to 10K for some pieces, and even those are 10x the same price of the identical setting in silver. I refuse to pay that much for a small piece that is only 40% pure gold. If the item weighs 2 to 3 grams, that's about .8 to 1.2 grams pure gold I'm paying for, and that tees me off.

I'm not talking about pieces that are superior quality either here, since I do understand that fine workmanship is a premium as well. I'm just talking about mass produced cast pieces.

I don't mind paying the same setting cost that it costs for gold because the jeweler is doing the same amount, or perhaps more work. At least I can save on the metal prices.

The things I'm most concerned about with silver are the following

1) Is it less durable than gold, will stones fall out more easily?

2) Is the setting of the stones so difficult that it may chip or damage the gems in any way.

 

[bcavitt]

I currently use a jeweler that will set anything in just about anything, so I'm lucky. I just obtained my first silver mounting because the price of gold is absolutely ridiculous, and even though gold prices went down, many jewelers are not adjusting for that deflation in price. As much as I love gold, it tees me off, so I'm looking at silver as an alternative.

Just playing devil's advocate, but the reason that many jewelers may not be adjusting for price is that the inventory they are offering may have been bought at $1700-$1800 gold and they can't afford to take the markdown?

You may be right, but as a consumer, I've seen some jewelers buy gold at today's prices, and not charge less. If you're doing custom work, many jewelers buy the gold at today's prices to work on the custom piece. I can see that more for in stock items that they purchased many months ago when gold was at it's peak.

I can't speak for other jewelers, but I was referring to stock pieces with my reply. Our store always prices custom work at current market.

 

[T L]

I currently use a jeweler that will set anything in just about anything, so I'm lucky. I just obtained my first silver mounting because the price of gold is absolutely ridiculous, and even though gold prices went down, many jewelers are not adjusting for that deflation in price. As much as I love gold, it tees me off, so I'm looking at silver as an alternative.

Just playing devil's advocate, but the reason that many jewelers may not be adjusting for price is that the inventory they are offering may have been bought at $1700-$1800 gold and they can't afford to take the markdown?

You may be right, but as a consumer, I've seen some jewelers buy gold at today's prices, and not charge less. If you're doing custom work, many jewelers buy the gold at today's prices to work on the custom piece. I can see that more for in stock items that they purchased many months ago when gold was at it's peak.

I can't speak for other jewelers, but I was referring to stock pieces with my reply. Our store always prices custom work at current market.

Well that's good, thanks for your reply.

 

[Michael_E]

I don't know, according the VL, the setting difficulty is the same, (is it???).

No, setting anything in silver is much easier than in any other metal except maybe platinum. The problem is keeping stones in normal sterling silver. It requires that one use much heavier prongs and bezels, something only found in custom work usually.

The thing is that I started going to 10K for some pieces, and even those are 10x the same price of the identical setting in silver. I refuse to pay that much for a small piece that is only 40% pure gold. If the item weighs 2 to 3 grams, that's about .8 to 1.2 grams pure gold I'm paying for, and that tees me off. I'm not talking about pieces that are superior quality either here, since I do understand that fine workmanship is a premium as well. I'm just talking about mass produced cast pieces.

If you look at this from the point of view of the jeweler you will see that only about 20% of the cost of a piece is in the metal. Stones, labor, overhead and , of course, profit, take up much more of the pie than the metal cost. This means that you are not paying for JUST 1 gram of pure metal, but all the other stuff surrounding the piece.

This is also the reason that most jewelers don't like messing around with silver. People have the expectation that silver SHOULD be much cheaper because the metal is cheaper. Since all the other parts of the equation still have the same costs, one can't really expect any cheaper than about 30% less than a comparable finished gold piece. But they do and so most jewelers just say, "no thanks", mostly to that expectation of low prices for everything attached to silver work.

I don't mind paying the same setting cost that it costs for gold because the jeweler is doing the same amount, or perhaps more work. At least I can save on the metal prices.

But you're not getting anything of LASTING value for your money. Sterling silver is soft and wears readily. It's really only good for low value stuff when used as a cheap stand in for more expensive white metals or is used in a protected place in conjunction with other metals. There is one other way to beat this cost deal AND get acceptable durability...see the next comment's reply.

The things I'm most concerned about with silver are the following

1) Is it less durable than gold, will stones fall out more easily?

Yes, it wears easily and does not hold gems in prongs very well, (though it does O.K. when used with bezels). If you want to over come this problem their are a few new silver alloys available which make the silver nearly as hard as gold and free from tarnishing, at least in the short term, (meaning a few years). These alloys are made by alloying silver with platinum or palladium and they work very nicely. They do cost about twice what sterling does however and so are only really found in custom work and probably will never be found in lower end commercial settings. With the widespread use of CAD and 3D printers the labor costs of custom work will come down, (at least on the simpler shapes and things that the jewelers have already created and can modify easily). By using a platinum silver alloy and a simpler setting from a custom jeweler it is possible to get very reasonably priced stuff of very high and lasting quality.

Want to really get a great deal from a jeweler? Get a friend or two and go in with the intent of making a deal. Most jewelers will jump at the chance to find two or three new clients and should be willing to give some great deals

2) Is the setting of the stones so difficult that it may chip or damage the gems in any way.

No, It's MUCH easier to set in sterling. But jewelry work is kind of like musical chairs...you don't want to be the last person standing, meaning the last person who touched the piece takes all the responsibility for any problems with it. With stones in silver, even if you do a great job setting, chances are that they will loosen and potentially fall out, so better to just not touch it in the first place.

I hope that these explanations help TL. I'm not trying to be play down an attempt to do nice things on a budget, but using sterling silver in the same way, (and same molds), as gold is really false economy and should not be done with stones that you care about.

 

[T L]

I don't know, according the VL, the setting difficulty is the same, (is it???).

No, setting anything in silver is much easier than in any other metal except maybe platinum. The problem is keeping stones in normal sterling silver. It requires that one use much heavier prongs and bezels, something only found in custom work usually.

The thing is that I started going to 10K for some pieces, and even those are 10x the same price of the identical setting in silver. I refuse to pay that much for a small piece that is only 40% pure gold. If the item weighs 2 to 3 grams, that's about .8 to 1.2 grams pure gold I'm paying for, and that tees me off. I'm not talking about pieces that are superior quality either here, since I do understand that fine workmanship is a premium as well. I'm just talking about mass produced cast pieces.

If you look at this from the point of view of the jeweler you will see that only about 20% of the cost of a piece is in the metal. Stones, labor, overhead and , of course, profit, take up much more of the pie than the metal cost. This means that you are not paying for JUST 1 gram of pure metal, but all the other stuff surrounding the piece.

This is also the reason that most jewelers don't like messing around with silver. People have the expectation that silver SHOULD be much cheaper because the metal is cheaper. Since all the other parts of the equation still have the same costs, one can't really expect any cheaper than about 30% less than a comparable finished gold piece. But they do and so most jewelers just say, "no thanks", mostly to that expectation of low prices for everything attached to silver work.

I don't mind paying the same setting cost that it costs for gold because the jeweler is doing the same amount, or perhaps more work. At least I can save on the metal prices.

But you're not getting anything of LASTING value for your money. Sterling silver is soft and wears readily. It's really only good for low value stuff when used as a cheap stand in for more expensive white metals or is used in a protected place in conjunction with other metals. There is one other way to beat this cost deal AND get acceptable durability...see the next comment's reply.

The things I'm most concerned about with silver are the following

1) Is it less durable than gold, will stones fall out more easily?

Yes, it wears easily and does not hold gems in prongs very well, (though it does O.K. when used with bezels). If you want to over come this problem their are a few new silver alloys available which make the silver nearly as hard as gold and free from tarnishing, at least in the short term, (meaning a few years). These alloys are made by alloying silver with platinum or palladium and they work very nicely. They do cost about twice what sterling does however and so are only really found in custom work and probably will never be found in lower end commercial settings. With the widespread use of CAD and 3D printers the labor costs of custom work will come down, (at least on the simpler shapes and things that the jewelers have already created and can modify easily). By using a platinum silver alloy and a simpler setting from a custom jeweler it is possible to get very reasonably priced stuff of very high and lasting quality.

Want to really get a great deal from a jeweler? Get a friend or two and go in with the intent of making a deal. Most jewelers will jump at the chance to find two or three new clients and should be willing to give some great deals

2) Is the setting of the stones so difficult that it may chip or damage the gems in any way.

No, It's MUCH easier to set in sterling. But jewelry work is kind of like musical chairs...you don't want to be the last person standing, meaning the last person who touched the piece takes all the responsibility for any problems with it. With stones in silver, even if you do a great job setting, chances are that they will loosen and potentially fall out, so better to just not touch it in the first place.

I hope that these explanations help TL. I'm not trying to be play down an attempt to do nice things on a budget, but using sterling silver in the same way, (and same molds), as gold is really false economy and should not be done with stones that you care about.

Michael,
Thank you for the informative reply. Unfortunately, I don't know many jewelers that work with these new platinum, palladium, or high end silver alloys. It would be nice to purchase ready made settings with these alloys as well, but I can't find any of them available. As you say, everything is custom work. Gold is rather soft IMO too, and every two years or so, I do need my prongs tightened, so I'm not sure if it's that economical either, since I have lost gems in gold, especially 18K. Luckily, I found them (in my car, in a cookie bag, LOL!).

I'm also gentle on my jewelry, but my gems still seem to rattle after a while in a gold setting. Therefore, unless I want that "yellow" look, I don't find gold to be that fabulous. I like the way gold looks, but I don't find it that secure for holding gems. I have some 10K pieces though that don't wear away as easily. If you want a gem to stay put, IMO, use platinum, but have a top notch jeweler because PT is a very hard metal.

Yes, I know that there are hidden costs in the piece of jewelry besides just the metal prices. It's just that I noticed that some mass produced stock settings have gone up a lot in price, because they're gold, even just 10K gold, but the same exact settings in silver, are really inexpensive, like one tenth the price. I know custom work is always going to be more money, and that's fine. I don't expect it to be cheap.

ETA: I see Stuller has some of these new silver/palladium alloy mounts, but I prefer to be able to purchase them myself, rather than go through a jeweler. I also like to see the pricing. I have a fabulous jeweler who doesn't mind setting my stones in pre-purchased mounts for me.

 

[JewelFreak]

Sterling silver in jewelry, especially rings, is too much hassle for me. No matter how careful you are, it scratches & even micro scratches dull the finish, which I hate to look at. It's a pain to store -- I keep mine in silver cloth, in an airtight baggie, in a drawer, to prevent tarnish. That takes up room & means rummaging through a few to find the one I'm looking for. Exposed to air & light during wear, they still need polishing. Combined with its softness, risk of losing a stone, I don't buy silver jewelry anymore & rarely wear what I have.

The new alloys might alleviate some of that but they also don't offer much in the way of cost saving.

Thanks for your informative info, Michael.

--- Laurie

 

[chrono]

Very interesting points brought up and I'm glad TL asked these questions. The downside of silver for me is the ease of which wear and tear shows.

 

[T L]

Very interesting points brought up and I'm glad TL asked these questions. The downside of silver for me is the ease of which wear and tear shows.

I actually have a platinum eternity band that shows more wear and tear than my silver pieces. It scratches like crazy.

I have some silver pieces with inexpensive gems I purchased almost two decades ago. I gave them to my daughter. With the exception of tarnish, the stones are still in place. I think heavy prongs are the key, since these pieces do have larger prongs than normal. You won't obviously be able to do delicate Leon prongs with silver, but I wouldn't do those with any other metal than platinum anyways.

Yes, looking at the pricing of the new silver alloys doesn't show that much savings. There's also not that many options with calibrated pre-cast settings. It's a shame. I don't usually do custom since I like to save money on that portion, although some stones require custom settings due to the nature of their shape/mm size.

I use a tarnish free box for silver, and it's worked pretty well. Tarnish can be easily removed from silver with the washing soda, hot water, aluminum foil method.

 

[chrono]

For me, my silver pieces show the most wear and tear. They wear down in thinness very quickly and any carving or pattern doesn't seem to last, compared to my gold pieces. What is the alloy used for your platinum eternity band? That makes a big difference too.

 

[T L]

For me, my silver pieces show the most wear and tear. They wear down in thinness very quickly and any carving or pattern doesn't seem to last, compared to my gold pieces. What is the alloy used for your platinum eternity band? That makes a big difference too.

I believe it's PT/Iridium. Not sure of the percentages though.

 

[chrono]

I believe it's PT/Iridium. Not sure of the percentages though.

Yup, that's why. It's the alloy used; it will scratch and turn gray easily.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/platinum-iridium-alloy.156123/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/platinum-iridium-alloy.156123/[/URL]
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/different-platinum-alloys.115930/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/different-platinum-alloys.115930/[/URL]

 

[jillianfl]

I would never buy silver jewelry again, it has tarnished and looks dull and when I went in the ocean it completely changed color, I myself will never buy a silver piece again, the old tarnished look is not what I am going for Just my 2 cents!

 

[T L]

I believe it's PT/Iridium. Not sure of the percentages though.

Yup, that's why. It's the alloy used; it will scratch and turn gray easily.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/platinum-iridium-alloy.156123/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/platinum-iridium-alloy.156123/[/URL]
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/different-platinum-alloys.115930/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/different-platinum-alloys.115930/[/URL]

thx Chrono

Mine also has a grey patina, but I like it actually. It's the scratching that drives me nuts. Here's an up close pic of it. I used to get it buffed every few months or so by the jeweler, but I eventually gave up. Too much maintenance, and now I enjoy it for what it is, a very heavy piece of metal. I like the heft of it and the patina. The thing that I dislike most about silver is how light it is. I'm sure the lack of density is what makes it lack strength, unlike PT and AU.

Oh yes, and thank you JewelFreak and Jillianfl for imparting your experiences with silver. It is helpful.

 

[T L]

I forgot to mention that I have a lot of silver jewelry in a couple of anti tarnish boxes. I rarely wear these pieces as they are necklaces, and bracelets, and I only wear them on special occasions. They've been in those boxes for over ten years, and no tarnish. I highly recommend them for people that are frustrated with tarnish and don't want to go to the trouble of wrapping the piece up. One of my boxes actually zips shut. It's awesome. I bought it a long time ago on QVC, and I think they have some others. In any case, I actually like a little tarnish on silver if it brings out engraved details (call me weird). I also like unplated white gold because I like that yellowish tinge. However, my pieces have kept tarnish free for years. I have a very intricate bracelet and necklace set, made in silver, out of silver like chain lace, and no tarnish whatsoever being in my anti-tarnish box for umpteenth years. I love the pieces when I do wear them out.

 

[marymm]

I have a 3 larger Tourmalines, a large Zircon, and a 13mm Aqua all sent into Argentium Silver - all of them are set into bezels except one Tourmaline set with tab-style prongs on the thicker side - I've had them for between 3-5 years now and they've all stood the test of time quite well, remaining shiny and tarnish-free, and stones quite secure - 3 of the settings are by JKT (2 are all Argentium, 1 is 18kt YG + Argentium), the Aqua bezel ring is by Daniel M, and the prong-set tourmaline is by Raven's Refuge (though I believe they do not accept customer stones anymore). I also have a 6mm square Spinel in a half-bezel ring by etsy vendor Mod Magic which is in Sterling Silver - I don't wear it as frequently but it too retains its high polish and shows no sign of tarnish. Depending on the stone and my desired setting, personally I would not hesitate going with silver based on my experience.

 

[T L]

I have a 3 larger Tourmalines, a large Zircon, and a 13mm Aqua all sent into Argentium Silver - all of them are set into bezels except one Tourmaline set with tab-style prongs on the thicker side - I've had them for between 3-5 years now and they've all stood the test of time quite well, remaining shiny and tarnish-free, and stones quite secure - 3 of the settings are by JKT (2 are all Argentium, 1 is 18kt YG + Argentium), the Aqua bezel ring is by Daniel M, and the prong-set tourmaline is by Raven's Refuge (though I believe they do not accept customer stones anymore). I also have a 6mm square Spinel in a half-bezel ring by etsy vendor Mod Magic which is in Sterling Silver - I don't wear it as frequently but it too retains its high polish and shows no sign of tarnish. Depending on the stone and my desired setting, personally I would not hesitate going with silver based on my experience.

Thank you Marymm for your experience.

Again, I wish one didn't have to do custom to obtain argentium silver mountings. I would love to try one out. As much as I love JKT and Daniel M, I rather just purchase a pre-made mounting.

I know Daniel M is well priced though, so if I had to do custom, I may go with him. JKT is a bit more on the expensive side, do you think?

 

[marymm]

I do think JKT is on the expensive side - and although I regard the rings she made as quite well-crafted with beautiful proportions, apx 3 years ago for customer-service/professional-ethics reasons I made the determination I would not utilize her services for future projects (so as not to be mysterious, my decision was made after another PSer's experience with JKT on a custom bracelet project).

I am very happy with my Daniel M bezelled Aqua ring - I find the bezel to be exceedingly well-done and the setting is well-balanced.

 

[T L]

I am very happy with my Daniel M bezelled Aqua ring - I find the bezel to be exceedingly well-done and the setting is well-balanced.

Thank you again, and are all your argentium rings bezeled?

 

[marymm]

I am very happy with my Daniel M bezelled Aqua ring - I find the bezel to be exceedingly well-done and the setting is well-balanced.

Thank you again, and are all your argentium rings bezeled?

I have one Argentium ring holding a blue Spinel cushion that has claw-type double-prongs that Daniel M made for me - that ring also I think is nicely made and the stone is still secure - that ring I did have to polish up once as it had an every-so-slight hint of tarnish to it.

And the ring that Raven's Refuge made for me has prongs as well - that is a more substantial ring with some heft to it - zero problems with tarnishing - stone still very secure.

 

[T L]

I am very happy with my Daniel M bezelled Aqua ring - I find the bezel to be exceedingly well-done and the setting is well-balanced.

Thank you again, and are all your argentium rings bezeled?

I have one Argentium ring holding a blue Spinel cushion that has claw-type double-prongs that Daniel M made for me - that ring also I think is nicely made and the stone is still secure - that ring I did have to polish up once as it had an every-so-slight hint of tarnish to it.

And the ring that Raven's Refuge made for me has prongs as well - that is a more substantial ring with some heft to it - zero problems with tarnishing - stone still very secure.

Thank you, and who is "Raven's Refuge?" Did they use argentium as well?

 

[marymm]

Raven's Refuge is an etsy vendor - https://www.etsy.com/shop/RavensRefuge - they don't accept customer stones anymore - but for bands and their other designs I highly recommend this vendor as Dan's work is of the highest quality and the customer service / communication is excellent, thanks to Laura (his wife).

 

[T L]

Cool, thank you very much Mary.

 

[Euphony]

The difference between the wear and tear you see in platinum versus silver is that platinum is developing a patina whereas silver is actually wearing down. They both show scratches much easier than white gold, but platinum is a strange beast. It is gummy. It scratches and dents quite easily, but the metal is being displaced more than it is being scratched off. People who prefer to work in platinum like it for that reason; despite it not holding a finish, it is a very durable metal.

I have never worked with the new alloys, but silver is just horrible to work with compared to gold. It will never polish up as nicely. It heats up too quickly. Silver solder is way harder to control than gold solder. It is significantly softer than gold (yes, even 18k and especially white nickle alloys.) And a jewellers margins on silver are complete crap. Anytime I do a job in silver I always end up feeling ripped off because there is just no room in what people are willing to pay for the material to make up for the labour costs. So the work is less pleasant and we get paid less for it. Not fun.

And gold just is nicer. I have had this discussion with many a friend and family member who prefer silver. I come from a family of silver loving people. It is fine to like silver better, but (and they hate when I say this) gold is just a nicer material. If you ever had to bring something from a rough casting to a high polish you would know exactly what I mean. It is really hard to explain, but gold has a luster that is just magical to watch being brought out. Silver just can't compare. It goes dull and lifeless despite its very pretty colour.