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Question on certificate age.

3stripes

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Messages
6
Hello!

New around here, and in search of a diamond for an engagement ring.
This forum has definitely helped a bunch in my education, so thanks for that!

I do have one question pertaining to age of certificates.
One diamond I have my eye on has a GIA cert of over a year ago 7/30/14 , should this be a red flag of sorts? I am not quite sure what to think? The others I have been looking at have been graded within the last six months.

I believe it to be a good looking diamond, purely based on the numbers, but as I have read, numbers aren't everything... So any input is much appreciated. Here is a link to the report. http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?pagename=GST%2FDispatcher&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&c=Page&cid=1355954554547&reportno=1166425283

BTW - I do apologize if this question is one asked many times
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
9,043
Diamonds are not perishable and no important changes have happened with the grading scales so the only key question is where it's been for the last year. If it's been mounted and returned, there's a question of condition, and if it's been sitting in someone's inventory the question is why it didn't sell. 'Farm fresh' doesn't really apply to rocks and neither of these questions is, of itself, a deal killer but if you're worried, ask.
 

WinkHPD

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
May 3, 2001
Messages
7,516
It may have been asked many times, but you, as are many, are here now, and finding old answers is not nearly as good as getting a new one, so always ask as there will always be those who are willing and happy to answer.

You may want to ask for reflector images, such as the ASET and Ideal-Scope as this has the potential to be a stunning diamond if it is cut with proper optical symmetry. It is at a size where it might have been possible, even VERY tempting for the cutter to do a Steep Deep swindle cut to keep the magic, and more expensive 1.00 ct mark. You may have found a great stone and I agree with Neil that you should ask where it has been and if there is something that has kept it from selling that is not showing up on the report.

Wink
 

solgen

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 10, 2015
Messages
563
Looks like there's a crystal right under the table but it won't be visible without magnification. Maybe the vid dissuaded people but it won't be an issue. It looks nice however so I'd try to get an ASET or even IS image.
 

3stripes

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Messages
6
Thanks for the replies! It's greatly appreciated.

I will ask but unfortunately I will not be able to get pics and assorted because it is from BlueNile. Is it worth taking the chance if I am ok with their answer as to why it hasn't sold?

Thanks again!
 

3stripes

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Messages
6
Diamond_Hawk said:
Wink|1444076126|3935109 said:
Steep Deep swindle cut

Wink always has a way with words... :twirl:

Its funny you mention that... rereading some of the posts in this thread, I don't fully understand what was being said with "a Steep Deep swindle cut to keep the magic, and more expensive 1.00 mark". Might anyone have insight... in layman's terms... I do get the "swindle" part. ;-)
 

thecat

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 19, 2014
Messages
1,483
3stripes|1444219543|3935734 said:
Diamond_Hawk said:
Wink|1444076126|3935109 said:
Steep Deep swindle cut

Wink always has a way with words... :twirl:

Its funny you mention that... rereading some of the posts in this thread, I don't fully understand what was being said with "a Steep Deep swindle cut to keep the magic, and more expensive 1.00 mark". Might anyone have insight... in layman's terms... I do get the "swindle" part. ;-)

A well cut stone might be less than a carat and sells at a lower price. To keeping it at the 1 carat mark where there's a price jump, some cutters retain weight by cutting them steep and deep. Not for performance but for the carat weight, hence the swindle cut. Hope that helps.
 

WinkHPD

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
May 3, 2001
Messages
7,516
thecat|1444236000|3935865 said:
3stripes|1444219543|3935734 said:
Diamond_Hawk said:
Wink|1444076126|3935109 said:
Steep Deep swindle cut

Wink always has a way with words... :twirl:

Its funny you mention that... rereading some of the posts in this thread, I don't fully understand what was being said with "a Steep Deep swindle cut to keep the magic, and more expensive 1.00 mark". Might anyone have insight... in layman's terms... I do get the "swindle" part. ;-)

A well cut stone might be less than a carat and sells at a lower price. To keeping it at the 1 carat mark where there's a price jump, some cutters retain weight by cutting them steep and deep. Not for performance but for the carat weight, hence the swindle cut. Hope that helps.

LOL, thanks Diamond_Hawk. I do my best! :angel:

Let's put some real numbers on this to disclose the full impact of this theoretical difference.

Let's assume two identically cut G-VS2 quality diamonds. One is a 1.00 ct and one is a .99 ct. Since they are identically cut, they both have the same appearance and should therefor sell at the same relation to the Rapaport Price Guide. (They wont in the real world, but theoretically they should.)

The Rap guide says the 0.99 ct diamond will sell at a 22.09% discount per carat from the 1.00 ct, FOR SOMETHING THAT YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PERCEIVE WITHOUT THE BENEFIT OF AN ACCURATE SCALE. The difference in diameter will most likely NOT BE VISIBLE to the eye when the two diamonds are side by side. The actual price of the 0.99 ct diamond will be 22.87% less than the 1.00 ct since there are only 0.99 cts at the lower price per carat. by the time you get to an .82 ct diamond, the price per carat is 43.02% lower per carat for a whopping 53.28% LESS than a 1 ct diamond of the same quality. (These percentages will change for each color and clarity grade. I am purposely not using a grade of the same color and clarity that you are asking about to avoid even the appearance of talking about your specific diamond as per board rules.)

Of course, if it is a steep deep swindle cut, it will sell for much less than a properly cut 1 ct, let's say 25% to "Really Penalize that dirty swindle cutter". So, instead of a 53.28 % discount for cutting the diamond properly, he gets a 25% discount for maintaining the 1 ct "magic" weight. This is why we see so much Steep Deep Crap cut diamonds, with or without the coveted GIA XXX. It simply pays to cut poorly if you can maintain weight. (It is highly unlikely that you could cut a diamond that should have finished a .82 into a 1 ct and still get the GIA XXX, but you would still make more money than cutting it properly in most cases.)

Oh, and in most cases, the finished diameter of the diamonds will be VERY close to what the smaller diamond is. If you have a piece of rough that will allow you to cut a diamond of 6.2mm the properly cut diamond will have that diameter and so will the steeper deeper cut diamond, which simply maintained more weight at the cost of beauty.

So! let me state this in layman's terms as succinctly as I can. A top cut diamond at a lower weight than one of the "magic weight" benchmarks, that actually looks as big as it is, may actually be a much better value than a poorly cut diamond even if only moderately poorly cut that looks no bigger than the properly cut diamond, even if it hits the magic number and costs a LOT more.

If you are going hunting for a diamond just above one of those magic weights, the ones that are properly cut will seem expensive, because so many of them were cut from diamonds that should have weighed so much less and are thus able to be sold for less, but at the cost of beauty. The more expensive, and more beautiful diamonds may actually be better values if beauty and sparkle are your goals.

Wink

P.S. If you think this never happens, I once bought a diamond from a lady that when I sent it to GIA to get a report it came back with a 69% depth. (This was about 20 years ago, long before AGS was doing lab reports, and no one would send such a poorly cut diamond for an AGS report anyway.) As you might guess, it was a 1.00 ct diamond. I actually sold it to a store that was an AGS member so they could use it to show people just how much difference proper cutting makes.
 
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