Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Quality of Rough used by Tiffanys compared to Vendors

Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
4,607
Is the Quality of Rough Tiffany & Co uses the same as the Quality of Rough the Vendors here use?
 

diagem

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
Messages
4,930
Date: 2/13/2007 5:34:52 AM
Author:Pyramid
Is the Quality of Rough Tiffany & Co uses the same as the Quality of Rough the Vendors here use?
I really wonder how many US based Online-Vendors cut their own in-house stock production???

As far as I know, Tiffany uses only the highest quality assortments of Rough.
And even from the highest quality rough, they still will reject black VS''s and lower clarity, I-J color and lower, Medium Fluo. and higher...

But its much more complicated than that..., decisions on what rough material to use depends on many factors like Rough shapes and positions of inclusions, strain, etc, etc...

Not many entities in this industry have the luxury to purchase rough Diamonds as Tiffany & Co. can!!!
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
4,607
Thank you DiaGem, I was just asking after reading a post where someone had wirtten that ''you can''t make a silk purse out of a sow''s ear'' and started to wonder if the markup at Tiffany was something other than just the name
 

Paul-Antwerp

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Messages
2,852
Date: 2/13/2007 9:13:34 AM
Author: Pyramid
Thank you DiaGem, I was just asking after reading a post where someone had wirtten that ''you can''t make a silk purse out of a sow''s ear'' and started to wonder if the markup at Tiffany was something other than just the name
And what is your conclusion now? Is it or is it not?
 

solange

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 20, 2004
Messages
871
Tiffany New York carries down to VS 2 and I color. I know they eliminate stones with black inclusions but would a stone with very small black inclusions visible only under a 10 power loupe be worth less than one with white inclusions?
 

diagem

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
Messages
4,930
Date: 2/13/2007 9:56:58 AM
Author: solange
Tiffany New York carries down to VS 2 and I color. I know they eliminate stones with black inclusions but would a stone with very small black inclusions visible only under a 10 power loupe be worth less than one with white inclusions?
I dont know if it will be worth less..., but a white inclusion is more desirable.
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
4,607
Date: 2/13/2007 9:44:58 AM
Author: Paul-Antwerp

Date: 2/13/2007 9:13:34 AM
Author: Pyramid
Thank you DiaGem, I was just asking after reading a post where someone had wirtten that ''you can''t make a silk purse out of a sow''s ear'' and started to wonder if the markup at Tiffany was something other than just the name
And what is your conclusion now? Is it or is it not?
Well, I don''t know Paul. Some of it will be markup for the name, the store expenses etc. However, I do not think the diamonds sold by vendors on this board are sow''s ear rough quality at all, but we (meaning consumers) will never know the difference between Tiffany rough and other high quality vendors rough in real terms. Maybe the rough the vendors here have are higher than Tiffany quality, but this is something consumers cannot find out. I have heard it mentioned that sometimes Tiffany stones show some leakage, although it has been said that all stones have a small degree of leakage
Maybe it is the quality of the final diamond which counts anyway and the rough before it is cut away has nothing to do with it
.
 

diagem

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
Messages
4,930
Date: 2/13/2007 12:31:24 PM
Author: Pyramid

Date: 2/13/2007 9:44:58 AM
Author: Paul-Antwerp


Date: 2/13/2007 9:13:34 AM
Author: Pyramid
Thank you DiaGem, I was just asking after reading a post where someone had wirtten that ''you can''t make a silk purse out of a sow''s ear'' and started to wonder if the markup at Tiffany was something other than just the name
And what is your conclusion now? Is it or is it not?
Well, I don''t know Paul. Some of it will be markup for the name, the store expenses etc. However, I do not think the diamonds sold by vendors on this board are sow''s ear rough quality at all, but we (meaning consumers) will never know the difference between Tiffany rough and other high quality vendors rough in real terms. Maybe the rough the vendors here have are higher than Tiffany quality, but this is something consumers cannot find out. I have heard it mentioned that sometimes Tiffany stones show some leakage, although it has been said that all stones have a small degree of leakage
Maybe it is the quality of the final diamond which counts anyway and the rough before it is cut away has nothing to do with it
. In regards to a Tiffany Diamond, their cut quality is high! but a lot of the added value/mark-up consumers pay at Tiffany''s is the combination of both, high quality diamonds/gems and high quality jewelry designed by Tiffany that is often copied due to their success.
The difference between Tiffany and other manufacturers who produce high quality diamonds is the strenght that Tiffany has due to their huge buying power!!
Tiffany has the luxury tho either reject what they dont need/want from the parcels or/and resale their rejections on the open market.

Now if you take into consideration their rejections, you will understand that it is still considered high quality to many others. I know of quite a few manufacturers who depend on Tiffany''s rejection of rough diamonds.



All Diamonds have leakage!!!
 

Paul-Antwerp

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Messages
2,852
If you do not know history, you cannot understand the present, and have no clue about the future.

The history of Tiffany''s is totally different from any other diamond cutter. Up to a few years ago, Tiffany''s would buy their polished diamonds from various cutters. This strategy has changed, and a lot of that change is driven by a desire to control all environmental issues that might endanger the value of the Tiffany-brand.

Now, Tiffany''s owns part of a Canadian mine, and is buying their rough diamonds from a few sources. They have also set up their own cutting.

Basically, they work from the same high-quality parcels of rough as other cutters do, but in the process, there is a difference, which is mainly due to their lack of experience in diamond-cutting.

Working from essentially the same basic quality of rough, their cutting-operations tend to reject more rough and will only work on the stones, that are easiest to cut and which definitely offer the desired colour and clarity. By doing that, as operators, they avoid the technical difficulties of cutting a more complicated stone. Basically, because of lack of knowledge and lack of control therefore, Tiffany''s is not making the best out of their rough, and it is very difficult for them to pinpoint this.

Live long,
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
4,607
Thanks Paul.

Very interesting about them not getting as much out of the rough.
 

Nicrez

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
3,230
Paul, wouldn''t it then stand to reason that if they are only taking the rough that is "easiest" to cut, and that will yeild their desired color and clarity, that they are FURTHER eliminating stones that may have more inclusions, or twinning planes to avoid, they are also then getting stones that will be more likely to be sold under their name, then trying to cut a stone and not yeilding what they need, thus selling it back on the market at possibly a loss...?

Also, they do cut SI stones and J color, but they do not keep them. I am not certain of their prowess against other cutters, because as you said they are very new in comparison. But they do still get a large supply from the industry that are already cut, from what I know, but they are diminishing that with each new step. Also, I hear their melee will be in house soon...
 

diagem

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
Messages
4,930
Date: 2/14/2007 11:02:19 AM
Author: Paul-Antwerp
If you do not know history, you cannot understand the present, and have no clue about the future.

The history of Tiffany''s is totally different from any other diamond cutter. Up to a few years ago, Tiffany''s would buy their polished diamonds from various cutters. This strategy has changed, and a lot of that change is driven by a desire to control all environmental issues that might endanger the value of the Tiffany-brand. True, the strategy has changed partly due to a desire to control environmental issue''s. But it changed also for the reason Tiffany has no desire to depend on other entities for purchasing polished Diamonds. But as I write these words, Tiffany still purchases huge quantities of polished Diamonds from various independent Diamond manufacturers.
Tiffany also partnered with Diamond manufacturers for production of polished... (example:Rand from SA)


Now, Tiffany''s owns part of a Canadian mine, and is buying their rough diamonds from a few sources. They have also set up their own cutting.

Basically, they work from the same high-quality parcels of rough as other cutters do, but in the process, there is a difference, which is mainly due to their lack of experience in diamond-cutting. Tiffany has no "lack of experience in Diamond-cutting". Tiffany has been cutting Diamonds as early as the late 19th. Century with some stops here and there through out their 150 year history.

Working from essentially the same basic quality of rough, their cutting-operations tend to reject more rough and will only work on the stones, that are easiest to cut and which definitely offer the desired colour and clarity. By doing that, as operators, they avoid the technical difficulties of cutting a more complicated stone. Basically, because of lack of knowledge and lack of control therefore, Tiffany''s is not making the best out of their rough, and it is very difficult for them to pinpoint this. That is the Luxury a huge Co. like Tiffany has. Their rejections are not based on again "lack of knowledge", it is though based on "lack of control" (i fully agree on that point), Tiffany is not making the best out of their rough because thay have to work according to a "system"! A model that is right for them. Which means that most high quality Rough assortment lots consists of roughly 20-40% stones that will fall out of Tiffany''s quality, and it would be more productive/reasonable to re-sale these unwanted qualities on the open martket. And in today''s rough Diamond markets, Tiffany are able to market those ''rejected'' Diamonds at top price and fast (you can notice the results in their quarterly reports.)



Live long,
What Paul is saying is true as to regular Diamond manufacturers, they would cut and polish the whole rough parcel and market all its production..., including all the IJK''s and SI''s that come out of it. By that a regular manufcturer will squeeze the most he can out of that parcel.
Tiffany on the other hand is not in the business of selling loose polished Diamonds... (they do it since its the right timing now! but they will sell their loose rejected rough only!)

Tiffany is a Company that manages its business as a "Wall Street Corp.", its a huge Company that can''t run its business in the same model as a Diamond manufacturer. But rest assure they dont lack any knowledge in any department that has to do with their products.

 

diagem

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
Messages
4,930
Date: 2/15/2007 6:34:16 AM
Author: Paul-Antwerp
I am sorry, but I cannot go into more detail here.
Fair enough!!!

But it is unfair to start a topic/subject, pointing out to laymen on this public forum that a renowned Jeweler Like Tiffany & Co. who have been around in business for well over 150 years cutting gemstones and manufacturing some of the highest quality Jewelry, that they have lack of knowledge or experience in cutting Diamonds!!!!

If you allready pointed this point, you should be able to get "more into detail here", after all it is only fair...
 

UCLABelle

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 15, 2005
Messages
2,360
I just wanted to add that T&Co offers "I", "VS2" and Medium Blue and Under...
 

CaptAubrey

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2004
Messages
863
Date: 2/15/2007 4:08:32 AM
Author: DiaGem

Tiffany is a Company that manages its business as a ''Wall Street Corp.'', its a huge Company that can''t run its business in the same model as a Diamond manufacturer. But rest assure they dont lack any knowledge in any department that has to do with their products.

I''m not so sure about that. Tiffany has made some bone-headed decisions in the past, the foremost being their strange decision to cash in on their name by selling a lot of cheap sterling silver trinkets to the looky-loos. This boosted their bottom line but seriously damaged their image with affluent consumers. Fortunately, they''ve recognized what they did wrong with this and have turned back to their core market in the past few years.
 

diagem

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
Messages
4,930
Date: 2/15/2007 3:19:02 PM
Author: CaptAubrey

Date: 2/15/2007 4:08:32 AM
Author: DiaGem

Tiffany is a Company that manages its business as a ''Wall Street Corp.'', its a huge Company that can''t run its business in the same model as a Diamond manufacturer. But rest assure they dont lack any knowledge in any department that has to do with their products.

I''m not so sure about that. Tiffany has made some bone-headed decisions in the past, the foremost being their strange decision to cash in on their name by selling a lot of cheap sterling silver trinkets to the looky-loos. This boosted their bottom line but seriously damaged their image with affluent consumers. Fortunately, they''ve recognized what they did wrong with this and have turned back to their core market in the past few years.
It was a good article wasn''t it? For who ever wants, can read the article in the following link:

http://www.diamonds.net/news/NewsItem.aspx?ArticleID=16723


But it is aimed at business strategies....., not experties on specific products.

On the other hand, my writings on top are based on first hand experience..., not articles.

Its no ''walk in the park'' to stay on top for over 150 years....
 

CaptAubrey

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2004
Messages
863
Date: 2/15/2007 4:23:43 PM
Author: DiaGem
It was a good article wasn''t it? For who ever wants, can read the article in the following link:

http://www.diamonds.net/news/NewsItem.aspx?ArticleID=16723


But it is aimed at business strategies....., not experties on specific products.

On the other hand, my writings on top are based on first hand experience..., not articles.

Its no ''walk in the park'' to stay on top for over 150 years....
Yes, I saw that article but please don''t automatically assume that I am simply parrotting Rapaport.
I have felt that way about their silver business for years, and longtime PS regulars can attest that I have made comments along those lines before in our recurrent Tiffany Friday threads.

Tiffany has taken some risks in recent years. It''s still open to debate whether their decision to get into sourcing rough was a wise one.
 

diagem

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
Messages
4,930
Date: 2/15/2007 6:15:32 PM
Author: CaptAubrey

Date: 2/15/2007 4:23:43 PM
Author: DiaGem
It was a good article wasn''t it? For who ever wants, can read the article in the following link:

http://www.diamonds.net/news/NewsItem.aspx?ArticleID=16723


But it is aimed at business strategies....., not experties on specific products.

On the other hand, my writings on top are based on first hand experience..., not articles.

Its no ''walk in the park'' to stay on top for over 150 years....
Yes, I saw that article but please don''t automatically assume that I am simply parrotting Rapaport.
I have felt that way about their silver business for years, and longtime PS regulars can attest that I have made comments along those lines before in our recurrent Tiffany Friday threads. Tiffany has been around for sooo long, when you do things..., you also make mistakes..., that is part of the process of moving forward...., the important part is to learn from your mistakes...

Tiffany has taken some risks in recent years. It''s still open to debate whether their decision to get into sourcing rough was a wise one. In my opinion..., they had no choice..., it was a pure strategic decision at the time..., I am pretty much sure it is proving itself. I really think they saw what was waiting around the corner for them in regards to high quality rough sourcing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.
Be a part of the community It's free, join today!
    Three-stone engagement ring upgrade
    Three-stone engagement ring upgrade
    Vintage OEC Bracelet
    Vintage OEC Bracelet
    June’s Birthstone Trinity
    June’s Birthstone Trinity

Need Something Special?

Get a quote from multiple trusted and vetted jewelers.

Holloway Cut Advisor



Diamond Eye Candy

Click to view full-size image.
Top