Purchased a 1.63 diamond for $8,690...

[fire&ice]

eidted after to fact to add: I'm completely confused. The appraiser who will be charging you 75.00 will end the appraisal if the cert doesn't match the stone. 1. providing you provide her w/ cert. 2. I can't blame her to some respect. - if you give her the cert & it's not for that *specific* diamond - something is haywire.

again, I add the bottom - but i'm still confused.

In case the appraiser who will charge you the 75.00 is not the same one who will *look* at your stone:

David, I can not fathom a jewler who sells settings would not *also* sell diamonds.

We are not calling you *cheap*. We have just seen this game played over & over again.

Quite frankly, - no holds barred - you are being played. If not, which will be very difficult for *you* to discern, she is a "gem".

I'm one of those dopey consumers who *still* trust her eyes. I don't care what the crown or pav. or whatever is. I trust my eye for beauty. I *indeed* relied on an appraiser to make sure my specs match w/ what I *paid* for.

We've seen quite a bit on our tenure here. We are only speaking through experience. Keep your appointment w/ the appraiser or risk "the chance" of being played.

 

[davidsle]

She's actually one of the recommended appraisers on pricescope.com. I asked her what her consultation entails and she replied that she would look at the certificate and make sure that what I purchased was indeed the stone on the certificate. She also said that if she discovers that the stone is not the same as on the certificate she would ask me for the money and end the consultation. In addition, she told me that this is how it's done in the business and most people are find with it. I asked her to consult me on the diamond without viewing the certificate and she referred me to another appraiser.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Whew!

 

[Richard Sherwood]

-----------
asked her to consult me on the diamond without
viewing the certificate and she referred me to
another appraiser.
----------

Wow. I never get this. What would be the difference between consulting on this diamond without seeing the certificate and consulting on a diamond which didn't have a certificate?

Either way, she'd have to do the same work and give her opinion.

 

[davidsle]

Richard Sherwood:

Wow. I never get this. What would be the difference between consulting on this diamond without seeing the certificate and consulting on a diamond which didn't have a certificate?

Either way, she'd have to do the same work and give her opinion.


davidsle:

This is my point exactly! She never responded with a reason as to why she wouldn't look at my stone without first seeing the certificate. Do you have any suggestions of a good appraiser? I wanted to see this lady but when I told her that I would like an appraisal without the certificate, she referred me to someone else. In southern California, there are only a few that I can go see. One of which is referring me to another.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

-----------
Do you have any suggestions of a good appraiser?
-----------

Heh heh heh... Boy, do I ever.

Heh heh heh.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 8/20/2003 8:12:37 PM davidsle wrote:

She's actually one of the recommended appraisers on pricescope.com. I asked her what her consultation entails and she replied that she would look at the certificate and make sure that what I purchased was indeed the stone on the certificate. She also said that if she discovers that the stone is not the same as on the certificate she would ask me for the money and end the consultation. In addition, she told me that this is how it's done in the business and most people are find with it. I asked her to consult me on the diamond without viewing the certificate and she referred me to another appraiser.
----------------

O.K. - now I get it. Find another appraiser. $75.00 just to verify a cert is unreasonable. My understanding is that *this* service should not cost more than $40.00.

What you want is someone who will examine the stone & form their own opinion of color, clarity & cut. *Then* see if their *independent* appraisal matches the cert in a consultation w/ the appraiser.

Whew - Rich I second that. Also, Rich can not promote his INDEPENDENT APPRAISAL service - so I will. Do a search on his name. Many happy clients. And, not to slight - Dave Atlas is great also. Someone may have another name for you in CA.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 8/20/2003 8:12:37 PM davidsle wrote:

She's actually one of the recommended appraisers on pricescope.com. I asked her what her consultation entails and she replied that she would look at the certificate and make sure that what I purchased was indeed the stone on the certificate. She also said that if she discovers that the stone is not the same as on the certificate she would ask me for the money and end the consultation. In addition, she told me that this is how it's done in the business and most people are find with it. I asked her to consult me on the diamond without viewing the certificate and she referred me to another appraiser.

----------------

Well, David, the picture is definitely clearer. Tell her "Well, I'm not most people!" She's being completely outrageous, and she clearly doesn't understand what your goal is in getting an INDEPENDENT APPRAISAL.

I wholeheartedly second the recommendations of Richard Sherwood and Dave Atlas. You cannot go wrong. I realize they are across the country from you, so you need to look at your terms of sale to see if you have enough time to do this within the return period. If you do, it would definitely be worth any overnight shipping charges, etc to have one of them inspect it.

 

[caratgirl]

Hi Davidsle,

Well, I don't get it! When I went to her, she did a full work-up and requested that I NOT show her the certificate until after the appraisal was completed and I was told what the results were, but before she actually typed up the insurance appraisal report...maybe she just didn't want your business in the end for some reason? How odd.

 

[davidsle]

Yesterday, I got an email from her and she said that she would still consider looking at my diamond but under her conditions, which she spelled out as, "compare the diamond with the certificate, if they don't match, the consultation will end there." I actually don't mind because I'm pretty definite that the certificate matches the stone. That's why I don't want someone just looking at my stone and saying, "yeah, it matches the certificate."

There are only a few appraisers (who are listed on the ASA website) within the LA area. I've contacted several others this morning.

I would like to send my diamond to Richard Sherwood or David Atlas but I'm not sure if I have the time or the know how. What would I do, drop the diamond into an envelope, send it certified and insured. Then they'll do the appraisal and I'll receive the diamond back in how many days. I'm in LA. Atlas is in Pennslyvania. Sherwood is in Sarasota.

 

[Mara]

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On 8/21/2003 12:57:58 PM caratgirl wrote:

maybe she just didn't want your business in the end for some reason? How odd.

----------------

Independent appraiser after all...independently decides on who to offer services to. Could also be that she is very busy and senses that there could be alot of reassurance necessary for certain clients...possibly just does not have the time nor patience. I can respect that...I am the same way. Hence, why I do not serve the public...hee hee. Use another appraiser

 

[davidsle]

Mara,

Hand holding is probably better stated.

 

[canadiangrrl]

David, sending your diamond to an independent appraiser is a safe, simple process, and it's very much like you described. Both appraisers mentioned in this thread come highly recommended, and the turnaround time is quite rapid. FYI, Rich Sherwood is located in Sarasota, FLA. He has been very helpful in providing me with knowledgeable responses to my multiple questions.

I am sure if you email or PM either of them, they'll be able to provide you with further details on their appraisal services. Good luck, and keep us informed!

 

[Mara]

 

[davidsle]

Mara,

I really appreciate your comments...I just thought it was funny.


Thanks, canadiangrrl. I'll get in touch with both Richard and David.

 

[davidsle]

Got the appraisal today...

The appraiser (Charles Carmona, very descriptive and insightful) said that the diamond was an excellent stone. He confirmed that the diamond was an SI1 and he said that if the crystal inclusion (which appeared to be a carbon inclusion to me with a naked eye) was the reason why the diamond was an SI1. Otherwise, he would have graded the diamond a VS considering the rest of the stone is virutally spotless. He said that the color was whiter than a G (in his words, "probably closer to an F").

He also had me view the diamond through an ideal-scope and another similar scope but blue instead of red (I think it looked like an old telescope with four brass bars around it). I was amazed to see the hearts and arrows considering the table % (60%) pretty much makes it a non-ideal cut.

Regarding price, he said that at wholesale price (with a 20% discount) the stone would have cost somewhere around $9,150. In his opinion, he thinks I got a great deal.

Anyhow, I'm very excited and content about my purchase now. I guess I freaked out for nothing. I also got the diamond gemprinted. This will help with the insurance premiums. The lady who provided the gemprint service also said that the diamond was an excellent diamond. She said that she loved the way it sparkled.

To everyone that helped me out with advice and rationality, thank you.

 

[aljdewey]

David, CONGRATULATIONS. That is GREAT news.

You seem much more at ease now, and it looks like you found a fabulous stone at a great price.

Now all you need is a "yes". Great job!

 

[fire&ice]

That's good to hear!!! Sometimes that second set of eyes is needed if only to put your mind at ease.

Love to see pics & hear details about the proposal!

 

[LuLu B]

Hello, I can't tell if your stone is good or not but as a consumer and someone involved in marketing I have noticed your concerns about the inclusion being right under the table and visible ... Since you are buying this for your girlfriend with out her input I would suggest that most women would not be happy with a visble inclusion .. there are plently of stones with inclusions that are not sitting right under the table ... some hide right under the setting. While your girlfriend may not know about the inclusion ... if you don't tell her ... what are the chances she'll find out? For example, many people work in offices and almost everyone has a diamond ... the larger the stone the more jealousy and the more likely some one in her office knows about stones and will tell her about it .... or maybe your mother in law .. does she have any knowledge about diamonds? It would be sad to hear her say anytime there's a problem "and look at the diamond he bought you" . What about her friends? Social pressure as bad as it is is a reality. Women fall in love with thier diamonds and can look at them for hours ... they can love em or see the inclusion ... Maybe you could go for a slighty smaller stone with a VS2 for the same money or an SI1 with inclusions that aren't so easy to see ... this is a once in a lifetime buy .. you can't just paint it over... It seems to be bothering you before you even buy it.
Good luck and be well. Lauren

 

[davidsle]

Thanks aljdewey and fire&ice.

I'll be sure to give you all the details as soon as I propose. In addition, I'll probably get the diamond set within the next few weeks so as soon as I get the pictures from the appraisal, I'll post them on the website. I tried taking pictures of the diamond but my zoom isn't good enough to capture the diamond's beauty. Actually, I was trying to take a picture of the inclusion but I couldn't get it on camera.

LuLu B,

Thanks for the advice. The appraiser told me that the inclusion was invisible from the top of the stone and that the only reason I was able to see the inclusion was because I knew exactly where to look. Like I said before the inclusion is visible to the naked eye but you really have to look. I highly doubt a co-worker or even another jeweler will be able to see the inclusion unless it is thoroughly inspected. Thanks for the advice.

 

[canadiangrrl]

Lulu,

Many women have diamonds with visible inclusions. The consumers who frequent these boards & get an education about diamonds are in the minority of diamond shoppers. And I daresay that there are even some of us "educated" consumers out there (I'm one of them) that wouldn't care if an inclusion is slightly visible. David sounds like he has nothing to worry about in that regard - his appraisal came up roses. As for the jealousy/friends/co-workers/mother-inlaw stuff, in the grand scheme of things, that's really trivial.

David, you done good.

I'm sure your intended will be delighted with her ring.

 

[Mara]

Congratulations!! the stone sounds very lovely...as it did originally

Paranoia can be a good thing when you are dropping almost $9k on anything.

As for the inclusion being visible, 99% of the people out there have no idea what to look for and a fair # of those people probably have inclusions that may be visible to an expert eye but not to anyone else. Sometimes you can catch inclusions from the side or bottom that you missed on the top.

I was in an estate jeweler yesterday in Carmel (my FAV store) trying on some amazing huge rocks and some other stuff. Anyway--there was this beautiful 5c cushion cut stone (and fiance was relieved to see that 5c is too big..dare I say it...on my hand) that I tried on, amazing sparkle, beautiful old stone with an almost radiant shape to it...and I was turning it this way and that and then lo and behold I saw a black carbon inclusion from the side in the pavilion. I turned it back up and looked straight down and there it was..smack dab under the table! How did I miss it for the first minute or so I was scrutinizing it from the top? I was just struck by it's beauty and sparkle..I missed the inclusion compelely. It was a black carbon inclusion, looked like a spec of dirt in the stone. It was graded an SI which probably meant closer to an SI2 since this co does not get lab grading with most of their stones and I would not be surprised if they kept it SI for easier sale because there is no cert to specify...and that inclusion would put me off if I were to buy..but I missed it for the first minute or so I was looking and admiring. That is how easily people miss small inclusions while lost in the beauty of a stone. I am sure that if your hawk eyes caught a small inclusion in an excellently cut stone, most people would not anyhow.

Good luck!

 

[DBOF]

Well at least David has viewed the diamond in person and has choosen it, along with some professional guidance. I don`t think inclusions need to be always construed as something negative,just like there are many beautiful women that have freckles, but are still beautiful. Can`t take away natures contribution,and this is one thing that makes diamonds interesting, they are all different and unique. What really matters is the special meaning behind the diamond, and what it is choosen for.


Brad

 

[Richard Sherwood]

yeah, i love those freckles...

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 8/23/2003 3

0:37 PM DBOF wrote:

I don`t think inclusions need to be always construed as something negative,just like there are many beautiful women that have freckles, but are still beautiful. Brad
----------------

Well, I have both! My freckles have faded some w/ age; and, the inclusion in my diamond can't be seen by me because of my aging eyes! Ain't middle age GREAT!

Truely David, no one has seen my inclusion unless I tell them where to look. And, one really can't tell if its just a speck of dirt. Besides, aren't inclusions little gems inside of the gem? - kinda Zen & kinda cool & just like freckles - kinda cute.

That stone is pretty & sizable. That's all people will see. You done good!

 

[canadiangrrl]

F&I, I'm with you on both the freckles and the inclusions.

Frankly, I think some of the inclusions I've seen in person are kinda cool. They really give a diamond character. And I'm a dead-pale freckle face, and because of those freckles, I still get carded when buying wine and I'm WELL BEYOND the legal drinking age.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 8/24/2003 12

8:42 AM canadiangrrl wrote:

F&I, I'm with you on both the freckles and the inclusions.

Frankly, I think some of the inclusions I've seen in person are kinda cool. They really give a diamond character. And I'm a dead-pale freckle face, and because of those freckles, I still get carded when buying wine and I'm WELL BEYOND the legal drinking age.

----------------

Ha!!! I was carded last year. Of course, I can't get too excited. The guy was about 70. But, I, too, was carded well into my 30's. I used to *curse* that baby face. Now, I thank God!Sadly, though, you can only defy the laws of gravity for *so* long. BUT - you can sure fight them & relish a little in the feathers on your face - they come w/ experience.

 

[davidsle]

Attached below are the different settings that I'm considering:


SIX PRONG PLATINUM

FOUR PRONG PLATINUM

I'm leaning towards the six prong but I think the four prong would better display the diamonds beauty. I would prefer the band to have a more "knife-life" look but the rounded design is fine as well. If any of you guys have seen similar settings, can you please provide me with pictures or links to the source? After the setting, I'll have to start preparing for the proposal. Thanks.

 

[Mara]

Hey David..those pictures aren't working?

 

[davidsle]

I'm not sure on how to post pictures. I copied and pasted the pictures and they seem to work when viewing from my computer. I'll try to repost the pictures. Thanks Mara.