PS Pre-Owned Seller -OR- Trade Member?

[missy]

maybe there's enough of a PS market that's willing to pay a premium for pre-vetted stuff to make the sale - and if that's true, well, why should that niche be denied? Tough one. My head and my gut disagree.

For me it's about full disclosure. I think it's unfair & a bit unsavory for "amateur" diamond hunters to build a reputation helping people & then suddenly switch to pimping their own, for-profit "finds" w/o following the same rules that true *vendors* have to. You can't have your Cake and Eat It Too.

If everyone knows what people are doing & it's all above board & fully disclosed -- & okay with the PS management: ACES! I agree that "pre-vetted" merchandise is of value. Stmdr could have made a killing at one time flipping Stm-approved Asschers! (Whether un-seen, un-touched, virtual, in-transit items are "pre-vetted" is another matter entirely).

Yes, I agree with this.
And ditto Uppy- I take preloved/preowned to mean loved/owned by the PSer selling it...

I think this precise situation has been a long standing conversation over on Colored Stones.

I don't think I have ever visited the Colored Stones section here...I really must broaden my horizons!

 

[Gypsy]

I'm one of the members who found a good deal and posted for a flip. I'm not the first though. There have been others already who have done this on the Pre-loved forum=- successfully. So I thought I was within my rights to do so as well. And there was no issue with the first listing I put up.

My opinion is this. There are a lot of good deals on ebay and a lot of risk in buying from there. If I find what MAY be a deal, I take a risk that the seller is lying, not going to send me my goods... etc. If I get the item and I add value. I have it inspected by trusted jewelers. I get a SARIN. I get an appraisal for that I have the "REAL" not inflated stats. I have it unset, or I have the mounting fixed. I am adding certainty and value that justifies my asking for more than what I paid for the original item.

I don't say I bought it for myself. I don't lie and say that I "changed my mind" and am now selling. The diamond in of my first listing reliably been appraised for 4000-- I was the one who paid for this appraisal because I wanted to make SURE what the stone was worth, what it's stats were before selling to a pricescoper. And I'm offering it for 2,800 to PSers. That is honoring the "unspoken" PS rule that the pre-loved forum is for deals because I do feel that 2,800 on a 4,000 stone is a deal. You may personally not consider it one-- and if I've posted on pre-loved you are free to post that you don't think it's a deal-- like you did on AJ's thread. But someone it might be a deal.

Ella closed my second thread because I won't have the OEC studs (the second item) in my hands (therefore it won't be MINE to re-sell) until tomorrow when UPS delivers them. Once I have them I will get them appraised, unset then reset and do any repairs that need to be done. And take a lot of pictures. I don't see anything wrong with a few flips for profit. I'm not planning on becoming a vendor. But if Andrey and Ella prefer to keep the studs off the Pre-loved forum. I will respect that and post on DB only.

FWIW, The example of Storm is not a good one. Because there were plans to have him become a diamond hunter-- a paid service he would be compensated for-- through PS. He was for a while interested in making a profit off his knowledge of stones and finding them for people. It just ends up that he became a diamond designer instead.


PS is a community. And if PS decides that the pre-loved forum won't allow flips, I'm okay with it. That's going to hard to regulate. I'm pretty honest. But there are plenty of people who will get something and "change their mind" or whatever. Occasionally flipping doesn't make me a trade member-- I think a limit on the number of flips is a GREAT idea. I'm not planning on starting an active flipping business. AND IF I DID, I would tell Andrey and would change my designation to trade on the basis of my own integrity.

That's my opinion.

 

[Upgradable]

If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

Without disclosure that a piece is a flip, does it count? Does that make it an honest listing? How is this moderated? May be another reason for a rating system.

 

[Upgradable]

maybe there's enough of a PS market that's willing to pay a premium for pre-vetted stuff to make the sale - and if that's true, well, why should that niche be denied? Tough one. My head and my gut disagree.

For me it's about full disclosure. I think it's unfair & a bit unsavory for "amateur" diamond hunters to build a reputation helping people & then suddenly switch to pimping their own, for-profit "finds" w/o following the same rules that true *vendors* have to. You can't have your Cake and Eat It Too.

If everyone knows what people are doing & it's all above board & fully disclosed -- & okay with the PS management: ACES! I agree that "pre-vetted" merchandise is of value. Stmdr could have made a killing at one time flipping Stm-approved Asschers! (Whether un-seen, un-touched, virtual, in-transit items are "pre-vetted" is another matter entirely).

Yes, I agree with this.
And ditto Uppy- I take preloved/preowned to mean loved/owned by the PSer selling it...

I think this precise situation has been a long standing conversation over on Colored Stones.

I don't think I have ever visited the Colored Stones section here...I really must broaden my horizons!

Well then, lock up your wallet!! Finding the beauty of colored stones has cost me more $$ than diamonds ever did! Oh, what a guilty pleasure!! A new colored stone is better than chocolate OR sex!!!!

 

[zoebartlett]

I've begun several posts here but then erased them all because I still can't quite figure out my thoughts. Here's what I do believe though, for what it's worth:

1) Do we really need to limit the number of items and posts and/or moderate the pre-owned forum more than it is already? Those were my thoughts while reading the beginning of the thread.

2) I always pay closer attention to the items who we've all come to recognize and love. Sometimes I feel sad when certain pieces are put up for sale because I was around to see the original project in the works. I know how loved those pieces are. Pre-owned and pre-loved, right? Not Owned for All of 5 Seconds...

3) I pay less attention to the items that are flipped. I can't say I have really strong feelings either way about whether it's right or wrong as long as the poster is being honest and upfront about pricing. Well, no, there is something that bugs me about it but I still can't figure out how to word it. (Gypsy, you're not who I was thinking of when writing this.)

 

[missy]

maybe there's enough of a PS market that's willing to pay a premium for pre-vetted stuff to make the sale - and if that's true, well, why should that niche be denied? Tough one. My head and my gut disagree.

For me it's about full disclosure. I think it's unfair & a bit unsavory for "amateur" diamond hunters to build a reputation helping people & then suddenly switch to pimping their own, for-profit "finds" w/o following the same rules that true *vendors* have to. You can't have your Cake and Eat It Too.

If everyone knows what people are doing & it's all above board & fully disclosed -- & okay with the PS management: ACES! I agree that "pre-vetted" merchandise is of value. Stmdr could have made a killing at one time flipping Stm-approved Asschers! (Whether un-seen, un-touched, virtual, in-transit items are "pre-vetted" is another matter entirely).

Yes, I agree with this.
And ditto Uppy- I take preloved/preowned to mean loved/owned by the PSer selling it...

I think this precise situation has been a long standing conversation over on Colored Stones.

I don't think I have ever visited the Colored Stones section here...I really must broaden my horizons!

Well then, lock up your wallet!! Finding the beauty of colored stones has cost me more $$ than diamonds ever did! Oh, what a guilty pleasure!! A new colored stone is better than chocolate OR sex!!!!

OMG! That's incentive enough for me!
I need more disposable income!

 

[Circe]

I'm one of the members who found a good deal and posted for a flip. I'm not the first though. There have been others already who have done this on the Pre-loved forum=- successfully. So I thought I was within my rights to do so as well. And there was no issue with the first listing I put up.

My opinion is this. There are a lot of good deals on ebay and a lot of risk in buying from there. If I find what MAY be a deal, I take a risk that the seller is lying, not going to send me my goods... etc. If I get the item and I add value. I have it inspected by trusted jewelers. I get a SARIN. I get an appraisal for that I have the "REAL" not inflated stats. I have it unset, or I have the mounting fixed. I am adding certainty and value that justifies my asking for more than what I paid for the original item.

I don't say I bought it for myself. I don't lie and say that I "changed my mind" and am now selling. The diamond in of my first listing reliably been appraised for 4000-- I was the one who paid for this appraisal because I wanted to make SURE what the stone was worth, what it's stats were before selling to a pricescoper. And I'm offering it for 2,800 to PSers. That is honoring the "unspoken" PS rule that the pre-loved forum is for deals because I do feel that 2,800 on a 4,000 stone is a deal. You may personally not consider it one-- and if I've posted on pre-loved you are free to post that you don't think it's a deal-- like you did on AJ's thread. But someone it might be a deal.

Ella closed my second thread because I won't have the OEC studs (the second item) in my hands (therefore it won't be MINE to re-sell) until tomorrow when UPS delivers them. Once I have them I will get them appraised, unset then reset and do any repairs that need to be done. And take a lot of pictures. I don't see anything wrong with a few flips for profit. I'm not planning on becoming a vendor. But if Andrey and Ella prefer to keep the studs off the Pre-loved forum. I will respect that and post on DB only.

FWIW, The example of Storm is not a good one. Because there were plans to have him become a diamond hunter-- a paid service he would be compensated for-- through PS. He was for a while interested in making a profit off his knowledge of stones and finding them for people. It just ends up that he became a diamond designer instead.


PS is a community. And if PS decides that the pre-loved forum won't allow flips, I'm okay with it. That's going to hard to regulate. I'm pretty honest. But there are plenty of people who will get something and "change their mind" or whatever. Occasionally flipping doesn't make me a trade member-- I think a limit on the number of flips is a GREAT idea. I'm not planning on starting an active flipping business. AND IF I DID, I would tell Andrey and would change my designation to trade on the basis of my own integrity.

That's my opinion.

Oh, good lord. Ditto and co-sign to every word of this, and I don't even have a horse in this race, as I'm way too much of a hoarder to sell stuff.

Look, what's the alternative - PS'rs who spot good deals make "suggestion" posts, and start bidding wars which the lurkers will drive up? If there's a good deal out there and I've missed it in the original, I'd far rather pay to have some of the hassle of verification, appraisal, etc. cut out for me by a fellow PS'r than have to arm-wrestle the rest of the internet for it and THEN do the work myself.

Or are we suggesting that no one ever buy anything they don't intend to keep? I've kept enough of an eye on DB over the years to know that a lot of us are fickle buyers - that doesn't make us pros.

I figure if somebody is selling in bulk volume - I'm talking 20 pieces a week and up - they'll clog the boards, dilute their message, and invalidate whatever rep they've built via the board. Then they're trade, when their obvious self-interest interferes with their advice on the "consumer advocate" side of things. Flipping an exceptionally good find here or there? Pffft. It reeks of sour grapes to me to make a big deal out of it ....

 

[missy]

I'm one of the members who found a good deal and posted for a flip. I'm not the first though. There have been others already who have done this on the Pre-loved forum=- successfully. So I thought I was within my rights to do so as well. And there was no issue with the first listing I put up.

My opinion is this. There are a lot of good deals on ebay and a lot of risk in buying from there. If I find what MAY be a deal, I take a risk that the seller is lying, not going to send me my goods... etc. If I get the item and I add value. I have it inspected by trusted jewelers. I get a SARIN. I get an appraisal for that I have the "REAL" not inflated stats. I have it unset, or I have the mounting fixed. I am adding certainty and value that justifies my asking for more than what I paid for the original item.

I don't say I bought it for myself. I don't lie and say that I "changed my mind" and am now selling. The diamond in of my first listing reliably been appraised for 4000-- I was the one who paid for this appraisal because I wanted to make SURE what the stone was worth, what it's stats were before selling to a pricescoper. And I'm offering it for 2,800 to PSers. That is honoring the "unspoken" PS rule that the pre-loved forum is for deals because I do feel that 2,800 on a 4,000 stone is a deal. You may personally not consider it one-- and if I've posted on pre-loved you are free to post that you don't think it's a deal-- like you did on AJ's thread. But someone it might be a deal.

Ella closed my second thread because I won't have the OEC studs (the second item) in my hands (therefore it won't be MINE to re-sell) until tomorrow when UPS delivers them. Once I have them I will get them appraised, unset then reset and do any repairs that need to be done. And take a lot of pictures. I don't see anything wrong with a few flips for profit. I'm not planning on becoming a vendor. But if Andrey and Ella prefer to keep the studs off the Pre-loved forum. I will respect that and post on DB only.

FWIW, The example of Storm is not a good one. Because there were plans to have him become a diamond hunter-- a paid service he would be compensated for-- through PS. He was for a while interested in making a profit off his knowledge of stones and finding them for people. It just ends up that he became a diamond designer instead.


PS is a community. And if PS decides that the pre-loved forum won't allow flips, I'm okay with it. That's going to hard to regulate. I'm pretty honest. But there are plenty of people who will get something and "change their mind" or whatever. Occasionally flipping doesn't make me a trade member-- I think a limit on the number of flips is a GREAT idea. I'm not planning on starting an active flipping business. AND IF I DID, I would tell Andrey and would change my designation to trade on the basis of my own integrity.

That's my opinion.

I think as long as you are above board and offer a deal (subjective as that may be) I guess I can see how that could work. It just makes it seem less of a good deal for some reason. Not sure if that feeling is valid though. We are all free to make up our minds to purchase or not purchase and I think it is key for it all to be out in the open. Is the appraisal not the usual inflated appraisal then?

 

[rainydaze]

i think what concerns me about it is that here on PS you see exactly what some members are hunting for (that's pretty much the point, right?!). so someone who is adept at finding things can beat the searching PSer to the punch, buy the item they are searching for, and then the searcher's perfect item just happens to show up in the pre-loved section.


of course, that's assuming the pre-loved seller found it online where the buyer would have also had access, and the concern being that the buyer paid more for it than if they themselves had bought it from the original source.

 

[CharmyPoo]

I am a hoarder and haven't sold anything BUT how can you possibly limit by numbers. For example, I have acquired hundreds of colored stones and most of them are unset. At some point, I am going to want to sell them when I can finally give them up to a good home. For some stones, I may not have a record of what my purchase price was and may price them for more than I paid (I wouldn't know because I don't remember). Then does this count as a flip?

Even if I end up selling 10+ items .. I still don't see myself as being in the trade. Jewelry selling will never be a primary income for me.

On a side note, my hubby is forcing me to clean up my closet and I will literally have to sell or donate hundreds and hundreds of items. I don't think that will make me a clothing trader ... just a hoarder that has to give up her things. I do have clothing items that I received as a gift .. but that doens't mean I am going to give them away for free .. I would want to recoup fair resell value for it.

 

[Gypsy]

Thank you Circe! And I obviously agree.

Missy, I can't speak for everyone but MINE are not. I went to Joe Escobar for the appraisal because Erik is very honest and fair, and I've had him do appraisals for MY OWN stuff (that i pay insurance on so I want no inflation) and I double checked the price he listed against Old World Diamonds and it is right in line. I had a return policy to get my money back, and would have used it if I needed to, I wouldn't sell sub standard goods to anyone.

I didn't use Nancy Stacey for that one because she its the holidays and our schedules didn't work. She's by appointment only.

For the studs I'm getting tomorrow I am going back to JE because I have a repair they are doing for me I need to pick up and again, Nancy isn't available and I wanted them listed as soon as possible so that they can sell. If they don't appraise out via Erik then I have a return policy and I will be returning them for a full refund minus shipping. That's my risk.

JE is a vendor with too much integrity to fudge stuff, and I would never ask them to. IN FACT for the .93 I have listed Erik told me it is an I color and I asked him to put I-J for my own peace of mind. TO state lower on the off chance that GIA or someone might be strict on what is after all... a spectrum scale. He agreed ONLY because he knows that color isn't an exact science and there is some room sometimes.

 

[Upgradable]

In my experience, second hand items, be they diamond or not, sell for 30-50% of retail value. Though people can list things for whatever price they'd like.

 

[Dancing Fire]

i don't see a problem with flipping for a profit... if a member bought a stone for a good price i don't see a problem with he/she selling it for a profit.all i care about is what i have to pay.

if i bought a nice 1 ct stone for $1k at a garage sale i should resell it for $1k?...

 

[Hera]

I'm one of the members who found a good deal and posted for a flip. I'm not the first though. There have been others already who have done this on the Pre-loved forum=- successfully. So I thought I was within my rights to do so as well. And there was no issue with the first listing I put up.

My opinion is this. There are a lot of good deals on ebay and a lot of risk in buying from there. If I find what MAY be a deal, I take a risk that the seller is lying, not going to send me my goods... etc. If I get the item and I add value. I have it inspected by trusted jewelers. I get a SARIN. I get an appraisal for that I have the "REAL" not inflated stats. I have it unset, or I have the mounting fixed. I am adding certainty and value that justifies my asking for more than what I paid for the original item.

I don't say I bought it for myself. I don't lie and say that I "changed my mind" and am now selling. The diamond in of my first listing reliably been appraised for 4000-- I was the one who paid for this appraisal because I wanted to make SURE what the stone was worth, what it's stats were before selling to a pricescoper. And I'm offering it for 2,800 to PSers. That is honoring the "unspoken" PS rule that the pre-loved forum is for deals because I do feel that 2,800 on a 4,000 stone is a deal. You may personally not consider it one-- and if I've posted on pre-loved you are free to post that you don't think it's a deal-- like you did on AJ's thread. But someone it might be a deal.

Ella closed my second thread because I won't have the OEC studs (the second item) in my hands (therefore it won't be MINE to re-sell) until tomorrow when UPS delivers them. Once I have them I will get them appraised, unset then reset and do any repairs that need to be done. And take a lot of pictures. I don't see anything wrong with a few flips for profit. I'm not planning on becoming a vendor. But if Andrey and Ella prefer to keep the studs off the Pre-loved forum. I will respect that and post on DB only.

FWIW, The example of Storm is not a good one. Because there were plans to have him become a diamond hunter-- a paid service he would be compensated for-- through PS. He was for a while interested in making a profit off his knowledge of stones and finding them for people. It just ends up that he became a diamond designer instead.


PS is a community. And if PS decides that the pre-loved forum won't allow flips, I'm okay with it. That's going to hard to regulate. I'm pretty honest. But there are plenty of people who will get something and "change their mind" or whatever. Occasionally flipping doesn't make me a trade member-- I think a limit on the number of flips is a GREAT idea. I'm not planning on starting an active flipping business. AND IF I DID, I would tell Andrey and would change my designation to trade on the basis of my own integrity.

That's my opinion.

Oh, good lord. Ditto and co-sign to every word of this, and I don't even have a horse in this race, as I'm way too much of a hoarder to sell stuff.

Look, what's the alternative - PS'rs who spot good deals make "suggestion" posts, and start bidding wars which the lurkers will drive up? If there's a good deal out there and I've missed it in the original, I'd far rather pay to have some of the hassle of verification, appraisal, etc. cut out for me by a fellow PS'r than have to arm-wrestle the rest of the internet for it and THEN do the work myself.

Or are we suggesting that no one ever buy anything they don't intend to keep? I've kept enough of an eye on DB over the years to know that a lot of us are fickle buyers - that doesn't make us pros.

I figure if somebody is selling in bulk volume - I'm talking 20 pieces a week and up - they'll clog the boards, dilute their message, and invalidate whatever rep they've built via the board. Then they're trade, when their obvious self-interest interferes with their advice on the "consumer advocate" side of things. Flipping an exceptionally good find here or there? Pffft. It reeks of sour grapes to me to make a big deal out of it ....

I agree. I actually quite like the idea of certain psers flipping stones. If, for example, someone has great taste in OMC's or colored stones, then I would welcome the idea that I can get a great looking stone, have all of the legwork done and then a discount. Sounds good to me!

 

[TravelingGal]

i don't see a problem with flipping for a profit... if a member bought a stone for a good price i don't see a problem with he/she selling it for a profit.all i care about is what i have to pay.

if i bought a nice 1 ct stone for $1k at a garage sale i should resell it for $1k?...

That's fine. But the question is, are they then a vendor around here, or still a consumer? I guess it's a consumer selling (like a garage sale) but hm...

and it's one thing to have it as a hobby, but another thing to start soliciting business here?

 

[decodelighted]

I find direct solicitations of individual PSers in the manner of "pssst ... wanna buy a watch?" street corner hustle distasteful if not outright against community rules.

And, yes, I've noticed quite a bit of, ahem, stone turnover in the CS area for sometime now. When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro?

 

[canuk-gal]

I'm one of the members who found a good deal and posted for a flip.
I'm not the first though.

No one is suggesting a conspiracy.

I don't see anything wrong with a few flips for profit.

Are you sure Gyspy? Although I do not peruse the pre-loved forum with any diligence, I happened upon a thread in which you rebuked another poster for doing exactly this. Flipping. And although the thread was deleted--the item was an diamond also found on ebay--I do recall you being rather severe about her "making a tidy profit".

In this context, I find your actions/explanation, hypocritical. KWIM?

Of course, I am always happy to be wrong.

cheers--Sharon

 

[Laila619]

I think if someone's going to be flipping stones or other jewelry items on a fairly regular basis, then they should be identified as a vendor/seller.

 

[Gypsy]

I'm one of the members who found a good deal and posted for a flip.
I'm not the first though.

No one is suggesting a conspiracy.

I don't see anything wrong with a few flips for profit.

Are you sure Gyspy? Although I do not peruse the pre-loved forum with any diligence, I happened upon a thread in which you rebuked another poster for doing exactly this. Flipping. And although the thread was deleted--the item was an diamond also found on ebay--I do recall you being rather severe about her "making a tidy profit".

In this context, I find your actions/explanation, hypocritical. KWIM?

Of course, I am always happy to be wrong.

cheers--Sharon

Sharon, I think you misunderstood my problem with that seller I chided her for not having any information on the stone and asking for full retail for that stone-- she had no accurate carat weight, no accurate spread, color or even clarity. And her pictures were bad to boot. No intention to get an appraisal and asking what would be full retail. And using the fact that her jeweler (who could weight, measure, evaluate, etc the stone for himself) offering her 2K as justification for charging PSers more. My comment about a tidy profit was that if she got an appraisal, even if it cost $185 -- since she paid 500 for the stone, she was still able to make a tidy profit AND give her sellers the certainty and the assurance (at least color, clarity, carat weight and spread) AND a REAL professional's evaluation of what the stone was worth to justify her price. I had no problem with the flip itself.

Since the thread is now deleted (at the seller's request) you can summary of my point, then and now, in my long post on this page. You can see that Dreamer also mentions the same problem with that posters thread. [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/should-psers-comment-on-prices.167955/page-3']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/should-psers-comment-on-prices.167955/page-3[/URL]

 

[Gypsy]

I think if someone's going to be flipping stones or other jewelry items on a fairly regular basis, then they should be identified as a vendor/seller.

Laila, I think Deco and T-gal's point (which we all agree with) is where is that line though? Even I, who have no issue with 'casual' flipping', agree there is a line.

The problem is agreeing on where the line is, and how to measure it and identify when it has been crossed.

Is the line: NO FLIPS! One flip and you are a vendor.

Is the line: 12 flips a year (one a month) and on the 13th you are a vendor.

When are you flipping as a 'hobby" and when are you a vendor?

What's fair?

And what counts toward your total. Is it ONLY flips on PS that count? What if someone NEVER posts a flip on PS, but flips to the tune of 3 a month on DB or ebay. Are the a vendor? Or do we care only about what happens on here?

 

[Aoife]

I can't quite decide how I feel about this. On one hand, I can see the appeal of having someone who has an eye, whether it's for OEC's or a colored stone, pre-vetting, taking on the risk, and then turning it around and potentially making at least two people very happy. On the other hand, since I do spend most of my time in CS, I know that I react differently to posts about stones that seem to have "legs" than I would otherwise. I think the risk here is that PS members who do engage in flipping, even if it's occasional, run the risk of substantially changing the way we relate to each other, and I don't think that would be a good thing.

 

[geckodani]

Thoughts:

1. The more controversy there is about the pre-loved forum, the less likely it becomes that we will be able to keep it.

2. A consumer listing the occasional item for a flip does not a trades person make. If someone started buying giant lots of gems/settings/etc., started a store front and had a banner add on the side of the screen, then we might have to talk trades person.

3. I ADORE the thought of a well known PSer taking the initial risk, and getting stones verified and certed. Some of us, even with longish runs as PS members, would never in a million YEARS be comfortable taking a big risk on ebay stones. To have someone do the legwork is well worth the value IMO. There's a certain security that comes from a known, NON vendor seller, IMO.

4. Buying an item, adding value to it and trying to recoup that value in now way offends me. Frankly I'd be more offended if someone invented a sob story to justify selling their items. Additionally, NO ONE is required to state why they are selling something, IMO. We tend to over share in this lovely internet age.

5. It's almost time for Turkey.

 

[Laila619]

I think if someone's going to be flipping stones or other jewelry items on a fairly regular basis, then they should be identified as a vendor/seller.

Gypsy, yes, 'fairly regular basis' is the million dollar question--what constitutes a fairly regular basis? I think it's one of those that's hard to define, but you know it when you see it.

 

[Gypsy]

I think if someone's going to be flipping stones or other jewelry items on a fairly regular basis, then they should be identified as a vendor/seller.

Gypsy, yes, 'fairly regular basis' is the million dollar question--what constitutes a fairly regular basis? I think it's one of those that's hard to define, but you know it when you see it.

Ahhh! My favorite standard-- the obscenity standard! LOLOLOL. The problem is, in this case it means that we leave it up to the Moderator's discretion. And we all know how much people on here love that. Complaints when they regulate, complaints when they don't. I'd like to say "yes, let's make it their problem" too Laila, but what that would result in would be a great way to lose the Pre-loved forum, as Gecko so eloquently stated, cause it would be too much trouble for the moderators.

 

[canuk-gal]

I'm one of the members who found a good deal and posted for a flip.
I'm not the first though.

No one is suggesting a conspiracy.

I don't see anything wrong with a few flips for profit.

Are you sure Gyspy? Although I do not peruse the pre-loved forum with any diligence, I happened upon a thread in which you rebuked another poster for doing exactly this. Flipping. And although the thread was deleted--the item was an diamond also found on ebay--I do recall you being rather severe about her "making a tidy profit".

In this context, I find your actions/explanation, hypocritical. KWIM?

Of course, I am always happy to be wrong.

cheers--Sharon

Sharon, I think you misunderstood my problem with that seller I chided her for not having any information on the stone and asking for full retail for that stone-- she had no accurate carat weight, no accurate spread, color or even clarity. And her pictures were bad to boot. No intention to get an appraisal and asking what would be full retail. And using the fact that her jeweler (who could weight, measure, evaluate, etc the stone for himself) offering her 2K as justification for charging PSers more. My comment about a tidy profit was that if she got an appraisal, even if it cost $185 -- since she paid 500 for the stone, she was still able to make a tidy profit AND give her sellers the certainty and the assurance (at least color, clarity, carat weight and spread) AND a REAL professional's evaluation of what the stone was worth to justify her price. I had no problem with the flip itself.

Since the thread is now deleted (at the seller's request) you can summary of my point, then and now, in my long post on this page. You can see that Dreamer also mentions the same problem with that posters thread. [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/should-psers-comment-on-prices.167955/page-3']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/should-psers-comment-on-prices.167955/page-3[/URL]

Gypsy:

Thank you for taking the time to clarify--I appreciate it.

cheers--Sharon

 

[CharmyPoo]

In my experience, second hand items, be they diamond or not, sell for 30-50% of retail value. Though people can list things for whatever price they'd like.

From what I see on diamondbistro, precision cut colored stones often sell for exactly the amount they paid for even if it is second hand. Lots of compulsive buys every time there is a drop!

 

[Mara]

Personally I could care less if someone is flipping something. BUT if you are going to list it on PS... to sell to PS'ers, I think it's respectful to your fellow stone lovers here to say hey it's a flip and I just bought it to resell to ya'll and yup I'm trying to make a profit.

Otherwise, there's lots of other offline-PS venues you can hawk your wares and not say a thing.

And with that disclosure, let people vote with their purchase. People have the power of the purse. You don't like how someone is operating, don't buy from them. It's supply and demand, the market will support what interest there is.

In terms of how many you sell before you're a vendor/trade, whatever...that's up to Ella and the admins to decide.

And canuk...I also recalled the same thing, not the specifics but yep along those same lines...a PS'er who I don't really know got torn apart for flipping. Whatever the semantics were, same idea.

 

[canuk-gal]

Thoughts:

1. The more controversy there is about the pre-loved forum, the less likely it becomes that we will be able to keep it.


Talking about such "things" help toward transparency and honesty. My view is opposite--it if were shady and beneath the standard we have come to expect here--that would be good and sufficient reason the forum would be eliminated.

cheers--Sharon

 

[Allison D.]

Canuk, you're apparently remembering the very same thread I am, and in the *very* same way. I'm just so happy that it was YOU who posted it and not Mara.

On topic, I do agree with the viewpoint that selling off pieces of a truly personal collection feels different than flipping by intent, and the latter does feel more to me like it crosses into the line of vendor territory.

***ETA****

(I say this strictly as a consumer, by the way; some time ago, I discontinued my trade role. I enjoyed it and learned a lot while I did it, but the demands of my primary job became greater and the landscape here has changed considerably, too.

There were aspects of it I enjoyed immensely, but my interests have shifted in focus to other aspects of the business, and those are the ones I'd pursue if I continued in the future.)

****ETA again to clarify that I didn't see Mara's post prior to posting and wasn't aware she was posting. This is my own *independent* post.

 

[Allison D.]

Re the question about flipping if said flipping is outside of PS........I can't see that as being problematic. Like all communities, PS can only really legislate what happens in their own house, not what happens in others.

I think it would be pretty important, though, for someone engaged in that to surely realize that many PSers also frequent several of those platforms, so the flipping activity in other places may still lessen the weight of what could be an otherwise neutral post here.