Should PSers comment on prices?

[Laila619]

So member X (when buying) is a good person to be supported and helped, but the same member (when selling) is a evil monster we must defended against?
Why not treat all PS members equally all the time by banning price comments?

No one is good or evil. It's simply a matter of there being specific rules and guidelines for anyone who is a seller, and that includes regular PS members who become sellers.

 

[iugurl]

Discussion on pricing is part of what Pricescope is about and is expected.

 

[rosetta]

Discussion on pricing is part of what Pricescope is about and is expected.

Exactly. We don't need to be rude about it, but I don't support gagging.

 

[kenny]

As always comments need to be respectful and polite. Discussion on pricing is part of what Pricescope is about and is expected.

However, there is a difference between politely enquiring about pricing or answering a question about pricing and attacking a user for their price.

Please keep all discussion polite and feedback polite not critical. Viewpoints can be shared in a nice way.

Thanks Ella.

Now that that is settled do you all think any asking price is okay or should we as a community pressure sellers to only ask a "fair" price?
If so what is a "fair" price range that will not result in . . . uhm . . . comments.

In this thread Karl wrote, " . . . Personally I would love to see consumers being able to get 10%-15% back of current internet prices on diamonds. . ."
I think anyone who owns some diamonds would LOVE to get more for them.

I imagine professional vendors would like 10 to 15% since it results in less downward price pressure for them than 30 or 40%.
I have heard one member say she won't pay more than 50% of today's retail.

I'm certainly not advocating price controls or rules, but what can we expect moving forward?
Will sellers listing 10% below today's retail get price-lowering comments like arjunajane got?
How about 20% below today's retail?
30%?

Let me rephrase that...at what % below todays' retail would you most vocal ones NOT speak up?
Again, I'm talking about ASKING price, nobody will ever know the final price after negotiations.

Next, have we established that the price paid and the time it was owned is not a factor?
For instance, TGal just said wrote in this thread that she'd love to sell XYZ but won't list it here because it is worth so much more now and she posted what she paid long ago.

Are we as a community going to look down on someone profiting, or not?
(I vote NO, and TGal is not a bad person, nor is it her fault prices went up and she made that smart purchase back then.)

Again I'm not trying to establish rules, just trying to get a pulse for what asking prices will keep the birds from squawking.


OR, is this entire post a waste of time, like trying to herd cats?

 

[TravelingGal]

Kenny to clarify, I am not going to sell this ring. For what I paid, I'm saving it for the kid.

If I were to list it, I'd consider listing in here but I'd say, I paid X, which was cheap and yeah, I'm trying to make a profit because I still think X price is a deal.

Think I'd get takers? Probably not.

 

[kenny]

Kenny to clarify, I am not going to sell this ring. For what I paid, I'm saving it for the kid.

If I were to list it, I'd consider listing in here but I'd say, I paid X, which was cheap and yeah, I'm trying to make a profit because I still think X price is a deal.

Think I'd get takers? Probably not.

It doesn't cost you anything to try.

 

[iheartscience]

Kenny to clarify, I am not going to sell this ring. For what I paid, I'm saving it for the kid.

If I were to list it, I'd consider listing in here but I'd say, I paid X, which was cheap and yeah, I'm trying to make a profit because I still think X price is a deal.

Think I'd get takers? Probably not.

I think if it was still substantially less than retail (and by substantially less I mean 30% or more off the current retail), you would, actually! You got a deal and whoever buys it from you is still getting a deal, as compared to retail.

The $500 eBay ring converted to a $3000 DB listing didn't bother me, either. If someone is persistent/smart/lucky enough to snap up a crazy steal and want to re-sell it for more than they paid, I don't see the harm in that!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Kenny to clarify, I am not going to sell this ring. For what I paid, I'm saving it for the kid.

If I were to list it, I'd consider listing in here but I'd say, I paid X, which was cheap and yeah, I'm trying to make a profit because I still think X price is a deal.

Think I'd get takers? Probably not.

I think if it was still substantially less than retail (and by substantially less I mean 30% or more off the current retail), you would, actually! You got a deal and whoever buys it from you is still getting a deal, as compared to retail.

The $500 eBay ring converted to a $3000 DB listing didn't bother me, either. If someone is persistent/smart/lucky enough to snap up a crazy steal and want to re-sell it for more than they paid, I don't see the harm in that!

I think you can ask for more than you paid and no one would say anything if you are still realistic with your pricing re: current values. Some people don't want to or can't spend ages trolling ebay for a deal. If a buyer is lucky enough to find a good deal, or spent the time looking, then I think they would not get mauled for their asking price.

In the case of the $500 to $3000 listing, I don't give a hoot about the price the seller paid, but trying to sell a diamond for top second-hand-market dollar without having any evidence of its specs, not even accurate diameter measurements!! -- that is a different story I did not comment in that thread, but would have if she had not pulled it.

I recently got a diamond for a steal on ebay. If I ever sell it, I am not going to sell for less than I paid, or even what I paid. I will add value with a lab report or appraisal and good photos so buyers know what they are getting, and the buyer will not have to spend hours looking for the diamond in ebay or elsewhere. I will price is appropriately for the secondary market in my opinion, but the market will ultimately determine the value of what I am selling. If people call me out on the price, I will not get defensive. And I will not mention my personal circumstances in the sale, something that I think really rubs PSers the wrong way (happened in both threads that have been mentioned here).

Kenny people of course have different opinions about what is "appropriate" discounting on the secondary market. For some, it is clearly 10%, but seems most people don't agree with that. I think we should be able to discuss it civilly, without emotional maniputaiton or name calling from the seller or the PS peanut gallery.

 

[TravelingGal]

Kenny to clarify, I am not going to sell this ring. For what I paid, I'm saving it for the kid.

If I were to list it, I'd consider listing in here but I'd say, I paid X, which was cheap and yeah, I'm trying to make a profit because I still think X price is a deal.

Think I'd get takers? Probably not.

I think if it was still substantially less than retail (and by substantially less I mean 30% or more off the current retail), you would, actually! You got a deal and whoever buys it from you is still getting a deal, as compared to retail.

The $500 eBay ring converted to a $3000 DB listing didn't bother me, either. If someone is persistent/smart/lucky enough to snap up a crazy steal and want to re-sell it for more than they paid, I don't see the harm in that!

I think you can ask for more than you paid and no one would say anything if you are still realistic with your pricing re: current values. Some people don't want to or can't spend ages trolling ebay for a deal. If a buyer is lucky enough to find a good deal, or spent the time looking, then I think they would not get mauled for their asking price.

In the case of the $500 to $3000 listing, I don't give a hoot about the price the seller paid, but trying to sell a diamond for top second-hand-market dollar without having any evidence of its specs, not even accurate diameter measurements!! -- that is a different story I did not comment in that thread, but would have if she had not pulled it.

I recently got a diamond for a steal on ebay. If I ever sell it, I am not going to sell for less than I paid, or even what I paid. I will add value with a lab report or appraisal and good photos so buyers know what they are getting, and the buyer will not have to spend hours looking for the diamond in ebay or elsewhere. I will price is appropriately for the secondary market in my opinion, but the market will ultimately determine the value of what I am selling. If people call me out on the price, I will not get defensive. And I will not mention my persoanl circumstances in the sale, something that I think really rubs PSers the wrong way (happened in both threads that have been mentioned here).

Kenny people of course have different opinions about what is "appropriate" discounting on the secondary market. For some, it is clearly 10%, but seems most people don't agree with that. I think we should be able to discuss it civilly, without emotional maniputaiton or name calling.

Oh Dreamer, do you have to be so REASONABLE.

As for my ring, no I am not selling. The price at the time was around $5500 I think. It's probably more now, retail, and I love the ring. I just have to lose more weight for it to fit on another finger well (can no longer wear it on my RHRing finger!)

 

[kenny]

If I'm buying then a 60% discount from what you paid 20 years ago is fair.
If I'm selling a 1% discount of the price in 20 years from now is fair.

 

[Dreamer_D]

If I'm buying then a 60% discount is fair.
If I'm selling a 1% discount is fair.

LOL! I like at least 60% off I will settle for 50% though. BUT I am not every buyer. I have seen a couple things sell on DB that I shook my head at. But the items sold very fast, so *clearly* someone thought that paying essetially retail on the secondary market was ok!

An interesting grey area is hard to find items. Well cut old cuts. Perhaps TGals ring, which may not appear on the secondary market very often. Items that rarely appear on the secondary market might command a higher premium, like a finders fee, for the sellers.

 

[Circe]

I think that the situation which prompted this thread is pretty blameless: the seller was open and aboveboard about what things cost then and what they cost now, and it's up to potential buyers to decide if that's right for them. As VintageLover and HOT pointed out, this would be a great set-up for an Australian buyer.

But I do find the issue interesting re: disclosure, self-policing on the part of PS, and where to draw the line on meddling. I mean, in the recent past I saw a piece on DB that I almost jumped on ... until the next morning, when I called the original vendor to ask about modifications and he kindly provided me with a quote for a new piece that was, not 10% more than the resale price the DB'r was asking, but less than 5% more (which is not what the seller had advertised as the current retail price, mind you - we're talking a discrepancy of over 1K). Now, that struck me as being egregious. I backed out of the deal as fast as my little legs would carry me, but it didn't occur to me to call the seller out publicly or post a PSA, just because ... well, caveat emptor. I sort of figure it's up to the individual to make sure they're not being taken for a ride: otherwise, there's an unpleasant tinge of people reaching into my pocket to count my money for me. Thanks, but no thanks. I'd prefer not to have people second-guessing my decisions, either on what to price an item at, or what I choose to pay for it.

That said, I won't argue with anybody else's right to do so: I just hope it won't, a) deteriorate into petty childishness of the sort Kenny gave as an example (i.e., a seller who's been called out remembering to return the favor when the critic tries to sell something in turn), or, b) cause an enormous headache for the mods.

Bottom line: do your own research, no matter what other people say - sellers, commentators, or whomever. Even on a consumer advocacy site, it's just common sense.

 

[kenny]

... a "Consumer Advocacy Site" that is funded by . . . uhm . . . diamond vendors.

 

[MissStepcut]

... a "Consumer Advocacy Site" that is funded by . . . uhm . . . diamond vendors.

The $ behind any resource should be a red flag, but not sufficient to damn the information that's found there. When NPR had decent public funding, do you think it impaired their ability to honestly report on the sitting administration?

 

[Dancing Fire]

IMO...for most diamonds a 20%-25% off current online price sounds fair to me.

 

[yssie]

Kenny to clarify, I am not going to sell this ring. For what I paid, I'm saving it for the kid.

If I were to list it, I'd consider listing in here but I'd say, I paid X, which was cheap and yeah, I'm trying to make a profit because I still think X price is a deal.

Think I'd get takers? Probably not.

I think if it was still substantially less than retail (and by substantially less I mean 30% or more off the current retail), you would, actually! You got a deal and whoever buys it from you is still getting a deal, as compared to retail.

The $500 eBay ring converted to a $3000 DB listing didn't bother me, either. If someone is persistent/smart/lucky enough to snap up a crazy steal and want to re-sell it for more than they paid, I don't see the harm in that!

I think you can ask for more than you paid and no one would say anything if you are still realistic with your pricing re: current values. Some people don't want to or can't spend ages trolling ebay for a deal. If a buyer is lucky enough to find a good deal, or spent the time looking, then I think they would not get mauled for their asking price.

In the case of the $500 to $3000 listing, I don't give a hoot about the price the seller paid, but trying to sell a diamond for top second-hand-market dollar without having any evidence of its specs, not even accurate diameter measurements!! -- that is a different story I did not comment in that thread, but would have if she had not pulled it.

I recently got a diamond for a steal on ebay. If I ever sell it, I am not going to sell for less than I paid, or even what I paid. I will add value with a lab report or appraisal and good photos so buyers know what they are getting, and the buyer will not have to spend hours looking for the diamond in ebay or elsewhere. I will price is appropriately for the secondary market in my opinion, but the market will ultimately determine the value of what I am selling. If people call me out on the price, I will not get defensive. And I will not mention my personal circumstances in the sale, something that I think really rubs PSers the wrong way (happened in both threads that have been mentioned here).

Kenny people of course have different opinions about what is "appropriate" discounting on the secondary market. For some, it is clearly 10%, but seems most people don't agree with that. I think we should be able to discuss it civilly, without emotional maniputaiton or name calling from the seller or the PS peanut gallery.

Darn it, I clearly missed the good stuff

 

[LJL]

I think that the situation which prompted this thread is pretty blameless: the seller was open and aboveboard about what things cost then and what they cost now, and it's up to potential buyers to decide if that's right for them. As VintageLover and HOT pointed out, this would be a great set-up for an Australian buyer.

But I do find the issue interesting re: disclosure, self-policing on the part of PS, and where to draw the line on meddling. I mean, in the recent past I saw a piece on DB that I almost jumped on ... until the next morning, when I called the original vendor to ask about modifications and he kindly provided me with a quote for a new piece that was, not 10% more than the resale price the DB'r was asking, but less than 5% more (which is not what the seller had advertised as the current retail price, mind you - we're talking a discrepancy of over 1K). Now, that struck me as being egregious. I backed out of the deal as fast as my little legs would carry me, but it didn't occur to me to call the seller out publicly or post a PSA, just because ... well, caveat emptor. I sort of figure it's up to the individual to make sure they're not being taken for a ride: otherwise, there's an unpleasant tinge of people reaching into my pocket to count my money for me. Thanks, but no thanks. I'd prefer not to have people second-guessing my decisions, either on what to price an item at, or what I choose to pay for it.

That said, I won't argue with anybody else's right to do so: I just hope it won't, a) deteriorate into petty childishness of the sort Kenny gave as an example (i.e., a seller who's been called out remembering to return the favor when the critic tries to sell something in turn), or, b) cause an enormous headache for the mods.

Bottom line: do your own research, no matter what other people say - sellers, commentators, or whomever. Even on a consumer advocacy site, it's just common sense.

I think this is the issue. Had the seller not mentioned the price they originally paid, I don't think it would have raised red flags. As far as commenting on the posting, what DONT PS'ers comment on? When DO PS'ers let something slide by that they don't agree with? I just think you're gonna get opinionated posts about anything you say (I think the OP in the original post said that) and I think PS is a little more friendly/less name-cally when someone does something they dont agree with than other forums I've seen.

 

[Imdanny]

As a trade member now I have to be careful.

Personally I would love to see consumers being able to get 10%-15% back of current internet prices on diamonds.
After all the new value of the stone is today's price not last years. Assuming no damage or change in grading.
However settings are a very different matter today's value in a used setting is scrap price + any diamond value.
Anything over that is a gift.

As for commenting on value in a non-argumentative way I think it is fine.

Thanks, Karl. I didn't know that. Sobering if not entirely surprising.

 

[MissStepcut]

As a trade member now I have to be careful.

Personally I would love to see consumers being able to get 10%-15% back of current internet prices on diamonds.
After all the new value of the stone is today's price not last years. Assuming no damage or change in grading.
However settings are a very different matter today's value in a used setting is scrap price + any diamond value.
Anything over that is a gift.

As for commenting on value in a non-argumentative way I think it is fine.

Thanks, Karl. I didn't know that. Sobering if not entirely surprising.

I started a thread a while back on this subject, because I'd seen some setting listings (in multiple places) that looked like highway robbery pricing to me... so to speak. But, of course, if someone decides the setting is worth more to them, then that's market value.

 

[MissStepcut]

I also agree that it's not okay to try to manipulate or shame a poster into silence or tell posters that they shouldn't say anything because it would hurt their sale. If a PS sponsor vendor came on and asked us to not post about their high prices, lest the PS popular opinion would hurt their sales, I would find that pretty off-putting.

 

[Gypsy]

The moderators don't mind. So I don't see why anyone else should. We have enough rules. Let's not go about creating more of them.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Ahh, Mary Shelley or is it Jane Austin.....

One does not have to be a long time poster to see recurring themes on PS: buy pedigree. buy brand/cut. buy lab. buy "in vogue" shape. Look at any of the information on the websites. Peruse the videos.

I get it, it is business. Awesome. I mean, 2 years ago who amongst us--trade excluded--would have known a Spess, from a Spinel; an Octavia from a AVC? Nothwithstanding the region(s) the former are mined from! KWIM????

So how is it surprising, unreasonable, or upsetting that a seasoned PS'er or a new poster would use any of those "angles" to sell a product that is--branded ("AVC"), shape desirable/in "fashion" (cushion), pedigreed ("first"), lab certed. Because they did it on an open forum?

Therefore given my PS "education" I feel free to comment on it in the same context in which it was presented.

Great angle. It works. The resale forum is testimomy.

cheers--Sharon

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I certainly think there are stones that will sell for 15-20% under retail. It depends on demand and desirability of the stone. I think it is a grave mistake to list the price one paid for the item, because that is not relevant. What is relevant to the buyer is the current price of the item if bought new at that moment. Then one can decide if the advantages of saving 15-30 or whatever percent is worth giving up trade-in rights, etc.

 

[VRBeauty]

I certainly think there are stones that will sell for 15-20% under retail. It depends on demand and desirability of the stone. I think it is a grave mistake to list the price one paid for the item, because that is not relevant. What is relevant to the buyer is the current price of the item if bought new at that moment. Then one can decide if the advantages of saving 15-30 or whatever percent is worth giving up trade-in rights, etc.

Exactly. There is no single rule of thumb (or mob rule of thumb ). As a DB buyer, when I consider the price I'm willing to pay as compared to what I'd pay for a similar item from a regular store or vendor... I'm also going to factor the risk associate with dealing in non-retail, amateur setting as opposed to dealing with an established business.

ETA by the way, I think this is a great discussion with lots of well-thought out points of view.

 

[MissStepcut]

I certainly think there are stones that will sell for 15-20% under retail. It depends on demand and desirability of the stone. I think it is a grave mistake to list the price one paid for the item, because that is not relevant. What is relevant to the buyer is the current price of the item if bought new at that moment. Then one can decide if the advantages of saving 15-30 or whatever percent is worth giving up trade-in rights, etc.

I totally agree that current prices are all that's relevant to me as a buyer. I would love it if sellers would link some "comps" in a listing, but I don't really care if they list what they paid or what it appraised out at... and I know how to find my own comps.

HOWEVER, I will admit that if someone lists what they paid, I will do some rough math that might bias me against the purchase, since I do expect to get a certain % off retail, and might skip the step of finding my own comps if they add this into the calculation.

 

[Karl_K]

As a trade member now I have to be careful.

Personally I would love to see consumers being able to get 10%-15% back of current internet prices on diamonds.
After all the new value of the stone is today's price not last years. Assuming no damage or change in grading.
However settings are a very different matter today's value in a used setting is scrap price + any diamond value.
Anything over that is a gift.

As for commenting on value in a non-argumentative way I think it is fine.

Thanks, Karl. I didn't know that. Sobering if not entirely surprising.

A stone that was cut 5 years ago is the same as a stone cut today with the same specs as long as it was not damaged.
I often wondered if it would pay on a consumer to consumer sale to get a new grading report to show there was no damage. Otherwise the deal can be structured through an appraiser also.

A setting once it is worn can never be as it was new.
Within hours it has irreversible wear on it.
Sure it can be polished and cleaned to look good but it can never be new again.

 

[movie zombie]

a stone can have a lot of facet abrasion in 5 years if it was worn a lot or worn to work. a chip could also have appeared and/or a fracture within the stone. new is new and used is used, imo. unless there is documentation as to the current condition of the stone i'm considering, i'm not sure i'd buy. insurance companies insure after appraisal and i know my insurance company recommends an updated appraisal every 3 years to account for wear and tear and perhaps even less availability of that particular stone. it is possible that value could go up if a particular mine has played out but it is also possible a stone's value will go down due to wear and tear.

 

[Imdanny]

Discussion on pricing is part of what Pricescope is about and is expected.

Exactly. We don't need to be rude about it, but I don't support gagging.

 

[Gypsy]

I stated it in the 500-3000 thread and I'll say it again. This is my opinion:

If you want top prices for your stuff you need to provide certainty and remove risk.

I sold my Aurora Band. I had it for 9 months. I sent it back to BGD with all the original AGS certificates and had them attest to the condition of the diamonds and the setting for Dreamer, and she didn't pay me until they did so.

If you want top prices, you need a recent appraisal or the equivalent if there is a chance there has been wear that might devalue the item.

If you are flipping items you bought at a bargain and you want top price-- get a good appraisal that attests to the fact that your item is worth what you are asking.

The 500 to 3000 flip listed no commitment to : color, carat weight, spread, OR clarity! And the seller wanted FULL retail. No appraisal, nothing. She used her kitchen scale for the carat weight or something and couldn't even commit that it was accurate. I'm sorry but if it were NOT a PSer NO ONE would have been okay with that.

And just because you are a Pricescoper reselling you don't get a pass on us commenting on your goods. So you, like the PS vendors, need to make sure you've got your bases covered. AND IF YOU DON'T your price needs to reflect that. The more the uncertainty the lower your price, IMO. AND... DB doesn't have Ebay's Buyer Protection. So there is inherently more uncertainty in a DB transaction than an Ebay one. There is no seller fee, so it profits the seller, but it doesn't do anything for the buyer security except provide a smaller specialized marketplace.

If you have an upgrade policy or buy back policy and don't want to list your item for lower than what you would get with either of those... just be prepared someone may comment on it. Also be prepared that someone might want you to send to a professional to make sure that it's in like-new condition and that it matches the certificates. And if you can do that yourself, then that's even better. Just because one person comments doesn't mean that someone ELSE won't buy it. BUT... you may get feedback. That doesn't mean what you are doing is wrong. It's the nature of the forum.

If you don't want to risk feedback then DO NOT post on the pre-loved forum. Just post on DB alone.

 

[FrekeChild]

You know, I've sold a lot on diamond bistro and several items through the PS Pre-loved forum. I've actually mentioned my pregnancy in my current thread in the Pre-loved forum--and far from using it for the "sympathy vote" I wanted it there as an indication that if I don't respond right away to inquiries, I may be otherwise tied up!

I've also bought a lot on DB and I even used the Pre-loved forum for one rather large (for me!), recent purchase that was through JbEG. Regarding that purchase, I absolutely did my research. I absolutely negotiated with the seller. I am absolutely thrilled with the end result. Did I get a decent deal? According to my research, I think so, which is all that really matters in the end.

Regarding this particular situation with the AVC, I agree with many posters that it's overpriced at the listed price. I know that she is willing to negotiate and I'm reasonably sure that the ring will not sell for the posted price.

I think other posters have said it before me, but if I'm going to be paying for something that is only 10% off of retail from the original seller, I'd rather get the guarantees, the upgrade policy and all of the other perks that come with paying that original seller's retail price instead of something secondhand that comes with nothing but a used setting (that I wouldn't even use except as a temp setting!). It's all about marketing and I think that this particular ring could have been marketed much better - it is a decent deal for those who live in Australia and won't have to pay the duty to import something else from outside of the country.

Having said all of that, one thing I have learned is that if you want to sell something fast, price it lower than you think it's worth. The lower something is priced, the faster it'll sell.

I do wish AJ the best. I can tell from her listing that it is something she does not want to sell, so I can understand her anguish at feeling the need to list it at all. I just fear that her emotional involvement in the item may be a detriment to her getting what she needs out of the sale.

As far as no commenting on threads? I'm not for that. I welcome any and all comments, questions and remarks. But I'm not emotionally attached to anything I'm selling, so that may help explain my openness in that regard. However, I do have an ulterior motive for wanting threads to stay *open* and not be locked - if I had a separate thread for each of my items that is currently for sale, I'd take over the first page Pre-loved forum in a hot minute!

And I wanted to say thank you to Ella and Andrey for giving us something we've been clamoring for for quite a while!