Proposed Tax Plan

[Missy]

LOL well this does not surprise nor disappoint me. Trump continues along his merry way wreaking havoc and destruction in his path. Just watched an interview this AM on the "news" about his proposed tax plan and OMG can we say HYPOCRITE and LIAR any more emphatically? I am so not surprised any more.

Trump of course will benefit from the tune of millions with his new tax plan. While denying it the whole way. Are the American people really *this* stupid Mr. Trump?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/27/us/politics/trump-fact-check-tax.html

No one mentioning what all these tax cuts will cost? WaPo estimates a $2,200,000,000,000 ($2.2T) deficit over ten years. ($5.8 trillion dollars in lost revenue - $3.6 trillion in new revenues IF they actually eliminate the tax breaks that they said they will). I think all this extra debt, specially if a lot of the cuts go to businesses that are already cash-rich (if they’re not spending/investing the cash they have, what makes you think they’ll spend the cash they’ll get from the tax cuts), will hamper economic growth.

This tax plan punishes the states that didn’t vote for Trump (the tyranny of the minority). Ironically, they’re already donor states, but more taxes will be taken from them to be redistributed to the Trump states. Hmmm...isn’t redistribution against Republican principles? But then so we’re deficits — but that’s only when there is a Democrat in the White House.

Exactly. And of course the middle class who are already living in the states who already pay super high property taxes and pay so much already in so many ways are begin screwed even further with the elimination of SALT.

Maybe it is time to move south (or somewhere else) where property taxes are lower and cost of living is less expensive and you get so much more for your money.

And Dee*Jay YES. It does seem like it was written by a sixth grader and that is being generous. We have an absolute infant running our country and I keep waiting for someone to shout The emperor has no clothes, the emperor has no clothes.





:/

 

[t-c]

... Exactly. And of course the middle class who are already living in the states who already pay super high property taxes and pay so much already in so many ways are begin screwed even further with the elimination of SALT.

Maybe it is time to move south (or somewhere else) where property taxes are lower and cost of living is less expensive and you get so much more for your money. ...

And where your vote might make a difference! If the east and west coast liberals move to the red states, maybe they can help elect more centrist or even liberal representatives Then they can stop the phenomenon of a presidential candidate winning the electoral college while losing the popular vote.

 

[Missy]

And where your vote might make a difference! If the east and west coast liberals move to the red states, maybe they can help elect more centrist or even liberal representatives Then they can stop the phenomenon of a presidential candidate winning the electoral college while losing the popular vote.

Great point because NYC is already good re liberals so yes we should spread the love including our good sense and political beliefs.

Who's with me? And where shall we move? I need a climate that is not too hot nor too cold...LOL I am Goldilocks when it comes to weather but if I am leaving NYC I don't want worse weather...

 

[t-c]

Great point because NYC is already good re liberals so yes we should spread the love including our good sense and political beliefs.

Who's with me? And where shall we move? I need a climate that is not too hot nor too cold...LOL I am Goldilocks when it comes to weather but if I am leaving NYC I don't want worse weather...

You may have to relocate without me, @missy I can't get DH to move out of Manhattan. In fact, it took a lot of convincing to get him to even consider looking at apartments outside the West Village. He turned down an apartment with direct views of the Natural History Museum and Central Park (I still get misty about it).

 

[Dancing Fire]

I'm for any tax cut that will help to grow our economy. Sadly the left will always demonize the rich, of course they will not tell you that the top 10% earners are already paying the majority of our taxes.

The left must keep enough Americans in poverty so that they'll have a chance of being elected into office every 4 yrs.

 

[cflutist]

DF we are so screwed living in CA, high state income and property taxes. I have no mortgage, paid the house off 9 years ago. Won't have any deductions. Should we move to Oregon?

 

[redwood66]

I moved from CA years ago. Parents moved to Oregon at about the same time. Hubby's parents gladly got out of there 26 years ago. My grandma still lives there but she has Prop 13 on her property. She keeps trying to see if one of the family will take over the house when she dies so we can keep the tax advantage. None of us who have left want to go back because we could no longer afford to live there even with the tax advantage on the property (well that isn't the only reason). My sister lives there but wants out so bad that she has a retirement calendar already counting down with 15 years to go.

 

[Dancing Fire]

DF we are so screwed living in CA, high state income and property taxes. I have no mortgage, paid the house off 9 years ago. Won't have any deductions. Should we move to Oregon?

My wife said Wash or Oregon..... CBI stones are tax deductible...

 

[t-c]

@Dancing Fire (and others who think that this proposed tax cut will boost economic growth) This is written by the guy who was the domestic policy adviser to President Reagan. Maybe you'll listen to a Republican who worked on that Reagan Tax Cut and actually read this:

I helped create the GOP tax myth. Trump is wrong: Tax cuts don’t equal growth.
by Bruce Bartlett

... That’s wishful thinking. So is most Republican rhetoric around tax cutting. In reality, there’s no evidence that a tax cut now would spur growth.

The Reagan tax cut did have a positive effect on the economy, but the prosperity of the ’80s is overrated in the Republican mind. In fact, aggregate real gross domestic product growth was higher in the ’70s — 37.2 percent vs. 35.9 percent.

Moreover, GOP tax mythology usually leaves out other factors that also contributed to growth in the 1980s: First was the sharp reduction in interest rates by the Federal Reserve. The fed funds rate fell by more than half, from about 19 percent in July 1981 to about 9 percent in November 1982. Second, Reagan’s defense buildup and highway construction programs greatly increased the federal government’s purchases of goods and services. This is textbook Keynesian economics.

Third, there was the simple bounce-back from the recession of 1981-82. Recoveries in the postwar era tended to be V-shaped — they were as sharp as the downturns they followed. The deeper the recession, the more robust the recovery.

Finally, I’m not sure how many Republicans even know anymore that Reagan raised taxes several times after 1981. His last budget showed that as of 1988, the aggregate, cumulative revenue loss from the 1981 tax cut was $264 billion and legislated tax increases brought about half of that back. ...[read more here]

 

[rocks]

Oh my gosh Dee I have no idea how you can stand it. I mostly watch my property taxes very closely and definitely head on down to the county meetings if they are discussing ridiculous measures. But I live in a pretty conservative area and everyone is on top of them all the time.

I have to add that school issues and those needful kinds of things are pretty well taken care of here. But the flowery fanciful art things and special projects people know not to ask the taxpayers but to get the local businesses involved instead.

In ny we would consider 5% to be a bargain. Our state taxes alone are about 7% and then we pay local taxes on top of that. Real estate taxes....they are out of control. If my husband didn't have licensure issues, we would be in Florida. Several friends of mine have already relocated from ny/nj/ct because of the tax burden. Florida is the big winner in this. This will continue and will exacerbate the problem.

 

[rocks]

I don't even have any words for you other than I am so sorry.

Sounds like Long Island and westchester. You have my sympathies.

 

[lovedogs]

Thank you for posting that article, @t-c ! "Trickle down economics" DON'T WORK. PERIOD. No matter how much people want them to.

 

[azstonie]

Flat tax, no exceptions and no deductions. Corporate same as individuals. The only functions the IRS provides is receiving tax monies and prosecuting tax dodgers.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Thank you for posting that article, @t-c ! "Trickle down economics" DON'T WORK. PERIOD. No matter how much people want them to.

Funny how the Dems. never mention about Obama running up our national debt + a slow/no growth economy.

 

[Dee*Jay]

Funny how the Dems. never mention about Obama running up our national debt + a slow/no growth economy.

Funny how all you can harp on in an economics scheme that is not only UNeffective it is ANTIeffective.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Funny how all you can harp on in an economics scheme that is not only UNeffective it is ANTIeffective.

Please explain to me why do you think the Obama economic policies are effective?

 

[Dee*Jay]

Please explain to me why do you think the Obama economic policies are effective?

Please explain to me why you think Reaganomics (or in this current day case, Chumpnomics) are effective

 

[Dancing Fire]

Please explain to me why you think Reaganomics (or in this current day case, Chumpnomics) are effective

I remember the 80's when Americans were working and our economy was booming.

 

[Dee*Jay]

I remember the 80's when Americans were working and our economy was booming.

Ah yes; the good old days where both CD rates and mortgage rates were at 18%. And rampant running inflation be damned!

 

[redwood66]

Ah yes; the good old days where both CD rates and mortgage rates were at 18%. And rampant running inflation be damned!

Actually all of that has been too low for too long. BTW I hope you are feeling better!

 

[Dee*Jay]

Actually all of that has been too low for too long. BTW I hope you are feeling better!

Far too long -- I agree! Chump should resign immediately; 252 days too late in my opinion.

And thanks for the good wishes... I've gotten up a few times and it hasn't been nearly as bad as I'd feared. It's tomorrow morning through I'm dreading as that's usually the worst. Currently on the couch awaiting the CB's return with ice cream. Bless that man!

 

[redwood66]

Far too long -- I agree! Chump should resign immediately; 252 days too late in my opinion.

And thanks for asking... I've gotten up a few times and it hasn't been nearly as bad as I'd feared. It's tomorrow morning through I'm dreading as that's usually the worst. Currently on the couch awaiting the CB's return with ice cream. Bless that man!

Yes! Ice Cream! Bless that man for sure!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Ah yes; the good old days where both CD rates and mortgage rates were at 18%. And rampant running inflation be damned!

DJ
Please check again!... this was during the Carter era..... Reagan got inflation under control.... I remember well when gold was trading at $850 per oz.

 

[t-c]

Please explain to me why do you think the Obama economic policies are effective?

Uh, because Obama's economic policies got us out of the deepest recession since the Great Depression and now Trump is taking credit for the growth resulting from those policies. And don't say Trump getting rid of regulations did it all because if those actually had an effect, there should have been a detectable and sustained bump in economic growth or a significant and sustained drop in unemployment, but there hasn't been. The economy has simply continued the improvement that has been happening since the recovery in the Obama years.

 

[Dancing Fire]

TC
In part I'd agree. ..no matter which party is in power the economy will go through a boom and burst cycle every 10 yrs.

 

[Dee*Jay]

TC
In part I'd agree. ..no matter which party is in power the economy will go through a boom and burst cycle every 10 yrs.

DF, did you just manage to say something sensible about both economics and politics -- in the same post no less?! I'm so proud of you!

 

[Dancing Fire]

DF, did you just manage to say something sensible about both economics and politics -- in the same post no less?! I'm so proud of you!

Do I sound like a left winger now?...

 

[E B]

That dog didn't just catch the car, he slammed into the bumper. If you thought the 'grand repeal and replace' of Obamacare was embarrassing...

 

[Dee*Jay]

CURRENT talking points for the plan:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-02/here-are-the-house-gop-s-tax-bill-talking-points

Now who knows where this will all end up, but this is what's been released THIS MORNING.

Walking out the door in one minute, but will come back later to discuss.

 

[Tekate]

It could be a wash for us or we pay more, we aren't getting any breaks, we won't be partaking in any run up at the BMW dealer.