Professional Opinions NEEDED!

[Anthony Altieri]

I am upgrading my wife's GIA (J/SI, xxx) 10.05ct round and have located the following stone:

GIA (J/SI1, xxx) 20.05ct round. Please see attached GIA cert.

Here is my main concern. The stone is beautiful. On the 20.05ct more so on a white card I see a pinch more color that on her existing 10.05ct. Both stones are GIA J/SI1 triple X's

Is that due to the larger body?

 

[Anthony Altieri]

I attached the cert for review. Does anyone see any issues with this stones measurements?

Also, BOTH stones have no flourescence.

 

[Gemly]

Wow 20 carats!! From what I understand the range within a “J” color is wider than the range for say a d,e or f. So there could be quiet a visible difference between a high and low J. You may currently have a J leaning to the lighter end of the range and the 20 ct. could be leaning closer to a K. That being said, doubling the size could also have an impact on the visibility of the color.

Could you please share pictures of both stones with us?

 

[OoohShiny]

Wow 20 carats!! From what I understand the range within a “J” color is wider than the range for say a d,e or f. So there could be quiet a visible difference between a high and low J. You may currently have a J leaning to the lighter end of the range and the 20 ct. could be leaning closer to a K. That being said, doubling the size could also have an impact on the visibility of the color.

Could you please share pictures of both stones with us?

+1 to this.

The additional material in a larger stone means the light travelling into and through the stone has more material to pass through, which can mean it shows more of the material colour when it exits the stone and enters your eyes (if I'm understanding it correctly).


IIRC the Clarity Characteristics are listed in order of size/effect. I therefore would be cautious about the fact that Clouds are listed first and 'additional clouds are not shown' is in the comments line. It could potentially be a 'sleepy' or 'hazy' stone - inspection in person will be needed, in a range of lighting environments (so not just in the 'magic lighting' in the shop).


I would consider using the services of an independent qualified appraiser for a purchase of this size/cost. @oldminer and @denverappraiser are both long-time members of this board and truly independent, and would be my *personal* first choice of call.

What is the Returns policy of the store / vendor that you are using?

 

[kb1gra]

I mean this kindly, but please don't take the advice/opinions of strangers on the internet on a purchase that is likely north of a million dollars. For that kind of money, you need to be absolutely sure of both what you are purchasing and who you are purchasing it from.

 

[Big Fat Facets]

please kindly consider calling upon, an in person or remote diamantaire. better yet, @denverappraiser

whilst upgrading from a j color si 10 carat to a j color si 20 carat, please do keep in mind that the j color range is not only much wider in comparison to the colorless range, but will, assuredly display tint much more so in a 20 carat than a 10 carat

 

[Anthony Altieri]

Here are some pictures. I know the dealer very well and he gave me the stone. It is 100% returnable. I am just trying to understand better why I see more tint that the 10.05ct. Here are pictures.

 

[Anthony Altieri]

+1 to this.

The additional material in a larger stone means the light travelling into and through the stone has more material to pass through, which can mean it shows more of the material colour when it exits the stone and enters your eyes (if I'm understanding it correctly).


IIRC the Clarity Characteristics are listed in order of size/effect. I therefore would be cautious about the fact that Clouds are listed first and 'additional clouds are not shown' is in the comments line. It could potentially be a 'sleepy' or 'hazy' stone - inspection in person will be needed, in a range of lighting environments (so not just in the 'magic lighting' in the shop).


I would consider using the services of an independent qualified appraiser for a purchase of this size/cost. @oldminer and @denverappraiser are both long-time members of this board and truly independent, and would be my *personal* first choice of call.

What is the Returns policy of the store / vendor that you are using?

How do I contact @oldminer and @denverappraiser to get an opinion? Am I able to DM them through PriceScope?

 

[Anthony Altieri]

please kindly consider calling upon, an in person or remote diamantaire. better yet, @denverappraiser

whilst upgrading from a j color si 10 carat to a j color si 20 carat, please do keep in mind that the j color range is not only much wider in comparison to the colorless range, but will, assuredly display tint much more so in a 20 carat than a 10 carat

Thank you for your post. That is what I think I am seeing since the body of the 20ct is so much more that the 10ct.

 

[Big Fat Facets]

you are welcome, @Anthony Altieri

you see more tint in a 20ct than a 10ct because there is not just more diamond material but also the color range of j is wide

their is no private messaging or direct messaging in the forum here.

calling @denverappraiser

 

[AprilBaby]

How do I contact @oldminer and @denverappraiser to get an opinion? Am I able to DM them through PriceScope?

look for their posts and make contact . I’m all likelihood they will see this post and comment soon. Also if that is your real name I would change it so no one tries to find you. Maybe go with Anthony A.

 

[Matthews1127]

I mean this kindly, but please don't take the advice/opinions of strangers on the internet on a purchase that is likely north of a million dollars. For that kind of money, you need to be absolutely sure of both what you are purchasing and who you are purchasing it from.

I was thinking the same thing; security needed for this post!!!

 

[Anthony Altieri]

I was thinking the same thing; security needed for this post!!!

That's a good point. How do I change my name? I went into account settings and I can only change my email address and Avatar?

 

[mrs-b]

Since it's highly unlikely you'll get something in this size range, in a J color, and *not* see tint (nd possibly inclusions also) - have you considered upgrading the size, color AND clarity? Does it *have* to be a much larger stone? How about something in the 12ct range, VS clarity and H color? That would be a VAST step up on where you currently are, plus give you some noticeable extra size.

Size isn't everything, when it comes to diamonds....

 

[Big Fat Facets]

dearest @mrs-b please do be careful, as some, get quite offended at the mere suggestion of upgrading in color, even though you are well intended. of course, you can look after yourself. im just concerned for you ..

i had someone get, downright, rude at the mere suggestion of possibly upgrading their k color 4 carat diamond.

for what it is worth ... just feel protective of you ...

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

That's a good point. How do I change my name? I went into account settings and I can only change my email address and Avatar?

Click on “report concern” at the bottom left corner of your post and write to the mods and ask them to change your name. They should be able to do that for you.

 

[yssie]

I mean this kindly, but please don't take the advice/opinions of strangers on the internet on a purchase that is likely north of a million dollars. For that kind of money, you need to be absolutely sure of both what you are purchasing and who you are purchasing it from.

This.

Also worth noting: All traditional PS zeitgeist regarding faceting and proportions preferences goes out the window at 10+ carats, let alone 20+ - the facets are simply too large to appreciate scintillation in comparable fashion.

I echo others’ concerns regarding visibility of inclusions.

 

[canuk-gal]

20 carats. 2020. Take care.

 

[mrs-b]

dearest @mrs-b please do be careful, as some, get quite offended at the mere suggestion of upgrading in color, even though you are well intended. of course, you can look after yourself. im just concerned for you ..

i had someone get, downright, rude at the mere suggestion of possibly upgrading their k color 4 carat diamond.

for what it is worth ... just feel protective of you ...

@Big Fat Facets -

The OP is concerned about tint in such a large stone, so I'm giving him options. That's what we do on PS. Thank you for your concern, but let's stay on topic here.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

dearest @mrs-b please do be careful, as some, get quite offended at the mere suggestion of upgrading in color, even though you are well intended. of course, you can look after yourself. im just concerned for you ..

i had someone get, downright, rude at the mere suggestion of possibly upgrading their k color 4 carat diamond.

for what it is worth ... just feel protective of you ...

Please don’t be offended, @Big Fat Facets, but I think the two situations aren’t comparable. I remember the thread you’re referencing, and the OP there was extremely happy with her K and was talking about how she couldn’t personally see the difference between a K and a higher color. I tend to agree with that (to a point, in that I also prefer a bigger lower color to a smaller higher color) and there’s nothing wrong with having a preference. I believe the OP in that thread was just asking for size reassurance and in fact wanted to go bigger / more finger coverage if I remember correctly, so going to a higher color would not have solved her purpose. Also, I don’t remember her being rude, though of course if you felt slighted that’s your right. I do think it’s a bit unnecessary to bring that up in a different unrelated thread, so many days later.

In this case, Mrs B is only mentioning the option of going to a higher color because the OP himself has mentioned noticing tint. OP could split the difference of the two presented options with an I color and let’s say 15ct, if he wished. At that size options are kind of slim pickings anyway. I’m not sure it would be that easy to dictate a color/clarity/size/budget combo. Something has to give.

Agree that we should bring the focus back to OP and what he wishes to do.

 

[Big Fat Facets]

@Big Fat Facets -

The OP is concerned about tint in such a large stone, so I'm giving him options. That's what we do on PS. Thank you for your concern, but let's stay on topic here.

i completely understand what it is you are trying to do. i understand that. i do. im sorry if by speaking up, cautioning you, due to a previous experience i had, bothered you.

it was purely of good intentions ...

 

[bright&shiny]

Whatever way this goes, I hope you will share photos with the final product

 

[Big Fat Facets]

Please don’t be offended, @Big Fat Facets, but I think the two situations aren’t comparable. I remember the thread you’re referencing, and the OP there was extremely happy with her K and was talking about how she couldn’t personally see the difference between a K and a higher color. I tend to agree with that (to a point, in that I also prefer a bigger lower color to a smaller higher color) and there’s nothing wrong with having a preference. I believe the OP in that thread was just asking for size reassurance and in fact wanted to go bigger / more finger coverage if I remember correctly, so going to a higher color would not have solved her purpose. Also, I don’t remember her being rude, though of course if you felt slighted that’s your right. I do think it’s a bit unnecessary to bring that up in a different unrelated thread, so many days later.

In this case, Mrs B is only mentioning the option of going to a higher color because the OP himself has mentioned noticing tint. OP could split the difference of the two presented options with an I color and let’s say 15ct, if he wished. At that size options are kind of slim pickings anyway. I’m not sure it would be that easy to dictate a color/clarity/size/budget combo. Something has to give.

Agree that we should bring the focus back to OP and what he wishes to do.

thx for speaking up after @mrs-b already did, and asked "let's stay on topic"

after @LLJsmom posted in that thread, suggesting that possibly that op might want a "bigger diamond" and that "it was okay if she did" is when i posted that that op could consider the option of upgrading to a higher color.

on the contrary to your opinion, 2 diamonds with the same color, clarity, weight, cut specs the higher color diamond will appear brighter and larger than the lower color diamond.

how you feel about, "prefer a bigger lower color to a smaller higher" is none of my business
I really don't see how that is related to this op or my protectiveness of @mrs-b
this op is in the market to purchase a larger and lower color diamond.

you say "and there's nothing wrong with having a preference" ... is this forum not an entire community and the nuances of personal preference ?!!! seems rather superfluous and a non-point

i did indeed find her rude and wielding her diamond color philosophy on others by declaring, "that no diamond could be brighter than her k diamond"

it does not matter to me, if you felt it was rude or not. that op replied to me and not you, in that particular exchange.

@mrs-b suggested h color, not i color. 12ct and not 15ct. and going up in clarity to vs

yes, let's, after you going into, considerable, detail regarding the other thread, within this thread ... yes, let us "bring it back to op and what he wishes to do"

 

[Big Fat Facets]

thx for speaking up after @mrs-b already did, and asked "let's stay on topic"

after @LLJsmom posted in that thread, suggesting that possibly that op might want a "bigger diamond" and that "it was okay if she did" is when i posted that that op could consider the option of upgrading to a higher color.

on the contrary to your opinion, 2 diamonds with the same color, clarity, weight, cut specs the higher color diamond will appear brighter and larger than the lower color diamond.

how you feel about, "prefer a bigger lower color to a smaller higher" is none of my business
I really don't see how that is related to this op or my protectiveness of @mrs-b
this op is in the market to purchase a larger and lower color diamond.

you say "and there's nothing wrong with having a preference" ... is this forum not an entire community and the nuances of personal preference ?!!! seems rather superfluous and a non-point

i did indeed find her rude and wielding her diamond color philosophy on others by declaring, "that no diamond could be brighter than her k diamond"

it does not matter to me, if you felt it was rude or not. that op replied to me and not you, in that particular exchange.

@mrs-b suggested h color, not i color. 12ct and not 15ct. and going up in clarity to vs

yes, let's, after you going into, considerable, detail regarding the other thread, within this thread ... yes, let us "bring it back to op and what he wishes to do"

******editing error/typo****

2 diamonds with the same clarity, weight, cut spec, size measurement, the higher color will appear brighter and larger than the lower color

"prefer a bigger lower color to a smaller higher color"

 

[Matthews1127]

@Anthony Altieri, I do hope you are able to change your name, find a resolution to the tint conundrum, find a stone that meets your requirements, and your desires, and you return with a beautiful upgrade for your beloved.
Stay safe!! Thank you for sharing your journey with all of us!

 

[Karl_K]

This.

Also worth noting: All traditional PS zeitgeist regarding faceting and proportions preferences goes out the window at 10+ carats, let alone 20+ - the facets are simply too large to appreciate scintillation in comparable fashion.

True, but under table leakage is going to appear huge in a 20ct steep/deep. Avoiding steep/deep is more important at larger sizes. Obstruction issues will also stand out more.

 

[Karl_K]

There are 2 things that can change things up here.
A 20ct diamond cut from the exact some rough as a 10ct of the same specs is likely to show more color.
On the other hand the J color range is huge, larger than D-G or D-H combined depending on who you ask.
So is it more tint because of the size or the color range or both? I dont know.
I am not surprised that it is showing more tint however.

 

[Anthony Altieri]

I appreciate everyone's input. I think the problem is two fold. The "J" being a wider color range and also the massive size of the stone. The stone faces up superb and although not bad by any means when viewing from the side, I want the tint the mimic our GIA "J" color 10.05ct round. That being said I returned the stone to the dealer and we are looking for a GIA I/SI1, xxx, no fluorescence and at least 17mmx17mm in size. I think a GIA "I" color in that size will closer mimic the body color in her current stone in "J" color.

 

[Big Fat Facets]

yes, @Anthony Altieri it is indeed due to the wide j color range as well as the additional diamond material of the 20 carat in comparison to your 10 carat of the j color designation.

sounds like you are staying in the 18.5+ carat to 20 carat range, depending upon cut depth, but going up in one color grade to i, staying in si1 clarity.

i understand that would be about a 100k to 110k increase, at very least

the i color would, could come closer, visually to the tint of your current 10 carat j color.

the i color range is less wide than the j color range.

now that you've returned the stone to the dealer, this dealer source the i color stone 20 carat for you??

 

[ariel144]

Amazing thread! ...and interesting!