Private Moment Made Public, Then a Fatal Jump

[ksinger]

Private Moment Made Public, Then a Fatal Jump
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/30/nyregion/30suicide.html


I'm so glad they posted pics of these two. To the degree that they are able to feel any shame at all, perhaps having their pictures plastered all over everywhere will help. When I see their seemingly normal, shiny, happy, yet apparently empathy-free, faces, I truly partake of the collective shame of MY generation, that has apparently raised a better than fair number of monsters such as this. What parent raises a child so devoid of any ability to extrapolate a consequence, (who probably were protected from all consequences most likely), devoid of feeling, of empathy, of basic decency, to think that posting secretly recorded video of people having sex, is OK? WHO would ever be OK with that? This is NOT rocket science, but apparently it is beyond the broken or non-existent moral compasses of these college students.

I'm afraid this one just made me ill....

 

[Nashville]

I've been saying this for years now (and this is in no way playing devil's advocate), but the lack of privacy these days is ASTOUNDING. We see everyone's lives plastered all over the internet for the world to see. Everyone does embarrassing stuff in life, only now if you do someone was there with a cell phone to capture it all and send it to millions of strangers in seconds. Or there was a Big Brother camera there to see it from a streetlamp.

I hope, though nothing can reverse this senseless tragedy, this will encourage people to stop the constant invasion of privacy.

 

[soocool]

Private Moment Made Public, Then a Fatal Jump
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/30/nyregion/30suicide.html


I'm so glad they posted pics of these two. To the degree that they are able to feel any shame at all, perhaps having their pictures plastered all over everywhere will help. When I see their seemingly normal, shiny, happy, yet apparently empathy-free, faces, I truly partake of the collective shame of MY generation, that has apparently raised a better than fair number of monsters such as this. What parent raises a child so devoid of any ability to extrapolate a consequence, (who probably were protected from all consequences most likely), devoid of feeling, of empathy, of basic decency, to think that posting secretly recorded video of people having sex, is OK? WHO would ever be OK with that? This is NOT rocket science, but apparently it is beyond the broken or non-existent moral compasses of these college students.

I'm afraid this one just made me ill....

Me too! I saw this on tv this morning. But that is the problem, people don't think before they act. They do not think of the other person, only of themselves and how it makes them feel. Demoralize others to feel better about themselves. I hope they throw them into jail for their heinous act!

 

[susimoo]

I have nothing I can add..............

 

[yssie]

Two incredibly sick people who have earned every bit of whatever sentence they get

 

[steph72276]

So so sad.

 

[ksinger]

I've been saying this for years now (and this is in no way playing devil's advocate), but the lack of privacy these days is ASTOUNDING. We see everyone's lives plastered all over the internet for the world to see. Everyone does embarrassing stuff in life, only now if you do someone was there with a cell phone to capture it all and send it to millions of strangers in seconds. Or there was a Big Brother camera there to see it from a streetlamp.

I hope, though nothing can reverse this senseless tragedy, this will encourage people to stop the constant invasion of privacy.

People from my generation had and still have I think, a default expectation of privacy - it's why we're so much more upset about things that 20-somethings pretty much take for granted. Today, I'm afraid, the default expectation of the generations coming up, is NO privacy. And we all bear a bit of the blame. We post our lives on the internet (and yes, I raise my hand a bit for this too), we gobble up reality TV with the Big Brother camera going 24/7, and we revel in public humiliation (American Idol outtakes anyone? The one I'm most personally familiar with and which I could barely stand to watch for feeling for these poor people).

I have a jaundiced view: I don't think this will help at all, because at the core of it is a generation seriously lacking empathy as compared to previous generations. There's a wealth of info out there to back up that statement, so those of you who want to flame in and take it personally, don't. Each generation has defining characteristics - mine, the Baby Boom, has been criticized to death, so if we observe in our turn what we have wrought, I'll just say please deal with it. If you're not that way, it doesn't apply. And in any case, if 20-somethings ARE un-empathetic, much of the blame for that may be placed right back at the feet of MY generation....

Depressing all around actually....

 

[dragonfly411]

Sad to see what the new generations are like.

 

[Circe]

....

I have a jaundiced view: I don't think this will help at all, because at the core of it is a generation seriously lacking empathy as compared to previous generations. There's a wealth of info out there to back up that statement, so those of you who want to flame in and take it personally, don't. Each generation has defining characteristics - mine, the Baby Boom, has been criticized to death, so if we observe in our turn what we have wrought, I'll just say please deal with it. If you're not that way, it doesn't apply. And in any case, if 20-somethings ARE un-empathetic, much of the blame for that may be placed right back at the feet of MY generation....

Depressing all around actually....

I won't flame you for it, and I won't take it personally since it, uh, doesn't apply to me ... but I will disagree with it.

I teach this generation, and while some of them are little wretches, the majority are decent human beings. The problem, I think, is that technology makes it much easier to SEE the awful ones, as they're invariably the ones who self-promote or use their power for evil. See also the girls from Florida who posted their beatdown of another girl on YouTube, the idiots above, and anything that's ever been posted to 4Chan.

In this particular instance, the two should most definitely be charged as heavily as the law permits. What I wonder is how the prosecutor will classify this, finally. Currently, Ravi and Wei are charged with invasion of privacy*: factoring in the motivation, I think it also qualifies as a hate crime.

*"Invasion of privacy" seemed kind of inadequate to me for something with a large component of sexual violation, so I looked it up. Actually, it is a law tailer-made for situations like this, which implies they're happening all the time. I am now, if possible, even more depressed. http://www.samsachs.com/crimlaws/2c_14-9.shtml

 

[swimmer]

I'm with Circe on this one Karen. I see amazing things from what Dragonfly called the "new generations." These teens and 20 somethings volunteer with passion, seek out internships, reflect deeply, serve others, and seem to be thinking about the world beyond them in really amazing ways that those of us in our 30s and older simply couldn't have imagined at their age. But their bad apples can do so much worse than pass a nasty handwritten note... I don't blame technology, but the ease of access without education about the responsibilities involved is something to think about.

 

[luv2sparkle]

Sometimes it seems that all the new technology just provides us with new ways to hurt each other....

 

[Tuckins1]

I feel so bad about this! I saw it on the news and just wanted to cry. The cruelty that lives in the hearts of some people is really terrifying. I know that these two can't be charged with murder or anything like that, but invasion of privacy just doesn't seem to be enough!!

 

[Guilty Pleasure]

This is horrible, but I do not agree that this sort of mean behavior is unique to the younger generation. Computers and the internet allow for a new type of persecution or humiliation, but plenty of hateful acts have occurred throughout human history. I can't imagine what would have happened to a suspected gay man having sex in a college dorm in 1937, but it certainly would not have involved thoughtful discussion or discretion. Mobs are mean.

 

[Autumnovember]

This is horrible. I really wonder what could possess someone to do something like this.

How about websites like burnbook and thedirty? I can't imagine how people who have been put up on those websites and then ripped apart must be feeling.

 

[E B]

This is horrible, but I do not agree that this sort of mean behavior is unique to the younger generation. Computers and the internet allow for a new type of persecution or humiliation, but plenty of hateful acts have occurred throughout human history. I can't imagine what would have happened to a suspected gay man having sex in a college dorm in 1937, but it certainly would not have involved thoughtful discussion or discretion. Mobs are mean.

I agree. Back with more later.

 

[ksinger]

Things are being attributed that I never said. I pretty much expected it. Tried to head it off at the pass, but it's almost impossible I guess.

Please note that nowhere did I ever say that mean or un-empathetic behavior was a unique characteristic of the younger generation or was the norm in that generation.

What I said WAS...that they are not AS empathetic as previous generations. And there is some compiled research to support my statement, research that does not rely on either my or anyone else's anecdotal experiences.

http://www.miller-mccune.com/culture/todays-college-students-lacking-in-empathy-16642/


If this is true, then my jaundiced view of the hope (expressed here by others) that this will stop soon and we'll all hold hands and sing kumbaya is sadly, justified. It didn't work with previous, supposedly MORE empathetic generations, what would give anyone the idea that it would be any more likely then, for a generation that is supposedly LESS empathetic? And furthermore I said that IF they are that way, then MY generation deserves some of the blame. Not all, but certainly some, me being a big proponent of the idea that parents are the single most important influence - for good or ill - in a child's life.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

I've been saying this for years now (and this is in no way playing devil's advocate), but the lack of privacy these days is ASTOUNDING. We see everyone's lives plastered all over the internet for the world to see. Everyone does embarrassing stuff in life, only now if you do someone was there with a cell phone to capture it all and send it to millions of strangers in seconds. Or there was a Big Brother camera there to see it from a streetlamp.

I hope, though nothing can reverse this senseless tragedy, this will encourage people to stop the constant invasion of privacy.

We don't even need an official Big Brother. . .society has taken over that role itself!

 

[Steel]

I didn't read about this before now.

That poor boy & his partner - I feel so sad for them to have been violated in that way and worse that it made him want to commit suicide. It was loathsome behaviour by those old enough to know better. Too many kids think they are mature beyond their years but doesn't this kind of crap goes to prove that emotional maturity is earned? God bless that boys family, they must be so angry.

 

[Kaleigh]

Just makes me so sad.

I don't know that we can say it's this generation... I think it's a case of this generation having technology and parents aren't teaching ethics, empathy etc...

I feel so badly for this young man and his family.

 

[radiantquest]

Part of me feels that it is the world today that has caused these problems with society. Not to be argumentative, but I believe it is the older generations that are cauing this. I think the younger generations are desensitized by humanity. It is not really the 20 somesthings that own tabloids and are producers of these smut shows all over TV. How many times have we heard about a new "$ex tape" that has been released agaisnt a celebrities wishes? How many times have we heard about murder and beatings on the news? This is an everyday occurance and I think that before the media was covering these things like it does now it was considered by the masses to be "unheard of" and "unbelieveable". Now that it happens weekly society has had to grow a thick skin to not be completely depressed by ourselves that people forget that when they do something hurtful that there is an acutal person involved and not just a story, Ya, know?

 

[Circe]

Things are being attributed that I never said. I pretty much expected it. Tried to head it off at the pass, but it's almost impossible I guess.

Please note that nowhere did I ever say that mean or un-empathetic behavior was a unique characteristic of the younger generation or was the norm in that generation.

What I said WAS...that they are not AS empathetic as previous generations. And there is some compiled research to support my statement, research that does not rely on either my or anyone else's anecdotal experiences.

http://www.miller-mccune.com/culture/todays-college-students-lacking-in-empathy-16642/


If this is true, then my jaundiced view of the hope (expressed here by others) that this will stop soon and we'll all hold hands and sing kumbaya is sadly, justified. It didn't work with previous, supposedly MORE empathetic generations, what would give anyone the idea that it would be any more likely then, for a generation that is supposedly LESS empathetic? And furthermore I said that IF they are that way, then MY generation deserves some of the blame. Not all, but certainly some, me being a big proponent of the idea that parents are the single most important influence - for good or ill - in a child's life.

K, that is a ... disturbing study. I find myself wondering about their methodology a bit: I took the poll, and, while I'm a left-leaning softy who gets very invested in causes, I found myself deeply reluctant to click "Describes me very well" for "I am a soft-hearted person." I do wonder if that's something that was seen in a more favorable light than it would be today. For one thing, I think gender distribution and the weighted value we ascribe to "masculine" characteristics like toughness would make most people unlikely to click yes to that one.

The last paragraph of the article is definitely thought-provoking: it reconciles the two studies (examining decreased empathy vs. examining high rates of volunteerism among the Millenials) by saying that there's an onus on presenting themselves as empathic. I wonder if that's something that could be explained by, oh, a contemporary belief that everybody is out to get you? Phishing schemes and the slew of scams like the Ashley Kirilow case in Canada and the like in a modern culture might be responsible for creating a more defensive mentality ....

P.S. - None of this is meant to function as an apologetic for this specific case. I find it just as sickening as you do.

 

[IdLikeToBuyAVal]

I'm not sure if it's a generational thing - I am twenty five and this is horrifying to me...I think every generation has had thoughtless, heartlessly cruel people. That said - prior generations weren't raised with and didn't have access to the technology we have today that makes is so easy to capture pictures and video and to share them on YouTube. The technology can be used for good, but in this case it was used by a couple of incredibly immature, horribly cruel people to humiliate and hurt this young man. It's just so sad...

 

[Allison D.]

When I first saw this story this morning, all I could think was "Assuming both were involved (it hasn't been made clear if the girl an active/passive participant in the stories I've read), I hope they get the absolute harshest penalty possible.", and I still feel that way.

There is nothing even remotely redemptive that can be said about their motives. They just decided to be cruel and invasive to someone else for no reason other than sport and *enjoying* someone else's discomfort.

I hope they are stripped of their admission to the school. I hope they are prosecuted as fully as the law will allow for the most egregious charges possible.

 

[oranges]

I'm in my last year at Rutgers and the entire campus is distraught and in shock. To say that my generation lacks empathy is completely ignorant. Everyone that I have encountered on campus during the past few days understands how terrible this situation and is very upset about it. During every class that I have had this week we have taken a moment of silence to honor the poor man that took his life....tears have been shed during all of them. Nobody that I have talked to have said...well nothing is private these days-- everyone can't believe that someone would invade someone's privacy like that and then maliciously post it on the internet. This is not normal behavior and the two people that did this do not in any way represent the ideologies that my generation holds. They are two bad eggs and every generation has them.

 

[hihowareyou]

I'll start by saying what those two people did was truly awful and unforgivable.

Now in response to the discussion...

I am a member of Gen Y and I need to ask, how could you think you wouldn't offend people with your statements ksinger? Perhaps it is because I live in another country (though Australia seems to follow the US pretty closely in most things) but down here there seems to be a strong culture of not only concern for the globe but also a desire to act amongst my generation. Obviously us 20somethings are not under any delusions that "we'll all hold hands and sing kumbay" any time ever but in my experience most of us are interested in trying to help are are more than able to express empathy.

We have been brought up in a world completely unlike that of previous generations. The volume of information we are bombarded with every day in the news about wars, disasters, crime, etc far eclipses that in the past. Partly because our population is larger but ultimately because the technology is so rapid. I remember in my last year of high school being woken up by a phone call from my uncle on september 11 (remember I live in Australia) just after the first plane hit the twin towers. I sat in front of the TV and watched the second plane hit live and later the towers collapse, in those moments I witnessed the deaths of thousands of people while sitting on the sofa at home. Similarly I've grown up watching wars unfold live on TV, natural disasters, etc. People seem to question to much often the impact that violent video games and movies have on young people, how about we consider the impact of watching so many real people die or be exposed to horrific circumstances.

I know that I am a compassionate person but it is easy for me to be very critical of myself in this area. It is easy for me to understand that there are people living in conditions far worse that I should be able to imagine, except that I can imagine, because I've seen it on the news. It is easy for me to reflect on everything that I know about the world and to question if I am empathetic enough. I think when youth today are asked about empathy they apply it on a global scale as well as at a local scale with their friends, a stranger in the street, etc.

I wish the next generation will hurry up and take the spot light, I'm tired of the media and other people problematizing me.

 

[JewelFreak]

There are good & bad in every generation but your points are excellent, Karen. I gotta agree with you a great deal. Now, everyone, that doesn't say there are no good young people. We Boomers have heard how bad we are for ages -- most of the time we deserve it. I'm disgusted in good measure at my own generation, so full of pride in its "goodness" & having produced such greed & selfishness.

This is such a hideous act; it reminds me of the bullying that caused the suicide of that poor Irish exchange student -- meanness unto death.

Technology be damned -- I wonder where those parents were who did not teach those 2 kids empathy, respect for others and simple plain decency. It has nothing to do with availability of the internet, information, tv shows or any other excuse. These kids are simply boors & I wish they could be imprisoned for a very long time.

Again, as with stalking, technology is ahead of laws -- some must be made to deal with this sort of sickening act.

--- Laurie

 

[princesss]

There are good & bad in every generation but your points are excellent, Karen. I gotta agree with you a great deal. Now, everyone, that doesn't say there are no good young people. We Boomers have heard how bad we are for ages -- most of the time we deserve it. I'm disgusted in good measure at my own generation, so full of pride in its "goodness" & having produced such greed & selfishness.

This is such a hideous act; it reminds me of the bullying that caused the suicide of that poor Irish exchange student -- meanness unto death.

Technology be damned -- I wonder where those parents were who did not teach those 2 kids empathy, respect for others and simple plain decency. It has nothing to do with availability of the internet, information, tv shows or any other excuse. These kids are simply boors & I wish they could be imprisoned for a very long time.

Again, as with stalking, technology is ahead of laws -- some must be made to deal with this sort of sickening act.

--- Laurie

I completely agree with the bolded section.

KSinger, I had similar questions that Circe mentioned about the study, so I won't bother to repeat them, but she found the words to explain what I felt could skew the study's results.

Anyways, it's interesting, and I'd love to read more along these lines if you have anything handy.

As far as this situation goes, my heart goes out to the boy's family and friends. I can't imagine what they're feeling right now.

 

[ksinger]

I'll start by saying what those two people did was truly awful and unforgivable.

Now in response to the discussion...

I am a member of Gen Y and I need to ask, how could you think you wouldn't offend people with your statements ksinger? Perhaps it is because I live in another country (though Australia seems to follow the US pretty closely in most things) but down here there seems to be a strong culture of not only concern for the globe but also a desire to act amongst my generation. Obviously us 20somethings are not under any delusions that "we'll all hold hands and sing kumbay" any time ever but in my experience most of us are interested in trying to help are are more than able to express empathy.

We have been brought up in a world completely unlike that of previous generations. The volume of information we are bombarded with every day in the news about wars, disasters, crime, etc far eclipses that in the past. Partly because our population is larger but ultimately because the technology is so rapid. I remember in my last year of high school being woken up by a phone call from my uncle on september 11 (remember I live in Australia) just after the first plane hit the twin towers. I sat in front of the TV and watched the second plane hit live and later the towers collapse, in those moments I witnessed the deaths of thousands of people while sitting on the sofa at home. Similarly I've grown up watching wars unfold live on TV, natural disasters, etc. People seem to question to much often the impact that violent video games and movies have on young people, how about we consider the impact of watching so many real people die or be exposed to horrific circumstances.

I know that I am a compassionate person but it is easy for me to be very critical of myself in this area. It is easy for me to understand that there are people living in conditions far worse that I should be able to imagine, except that I can imagine, because I've seen it on the news. It is easy for me to reflect on everything that I know about the world and to question if I am empathetic enough. I think when youth today are asked about empathy they apply it on a global scale as well as at a local scale with their friends, a stranger in the street, etc.

I wish the next generation will hurry up and take the spot light, I'm tired of the media and other people problematizing me.

Perhaps because I'm still naive enough to believe that there are people who can read something that can be construed as a general criticism and not make it self-referent? Perhaps because I did not pull that comment out of thin air, but actually backed it up with at least a report of research - research likely compiled by your very own generation - supporting the comment?

I like to flatter myself that I too am a very empathetic person, but my tolerance for people taking offense at the merest hint of criticism of a group they identify with, is at low ebb these days. I've pretty much decided that no matter how prettily people try to dance around negative observations - no matter how much they try to explain them, or say that's - no really, I understand that this is not the entire picture, no really, no REALLY. - SOMEONE will take offense, so I'm kinda through trying to endlessly explain the nuances all the time. Take offense or not as you will. It's on your head, not mine.

 

[partgypsy]

I disagree with the first part of your quote "at the core of it is a generation seriously lacking empahty as compared to previous generations" but do agree "much of the blame for that may be placed right back at the feet of my generation"

No worries, I'm not offended; I'm genx so neither baby boomer nor gen y but I know people from both and as a generalizations go, I would say in the contest of self-centeredness and entitledness baby boomers wins hands down. The biggest thing I would say is, that young people growing up today live in a different world than the world the baby boomers did. These kids grow up fast, and in front of the whole world.

Even in the article you quote college students today also scored highest in past 30 years in agreeing with statement that people who need help should be helped. How do you explain that if at their core, these people lack empathy? Isn't that what empathy is about? But no one wants to be a sucker and the social norms of what is an appropriate thing to ape is different than it was. I'm a researcher and I can find more than one explanation why current respondents answer differently on an empathy quize than people did 30 years ago.

 

[iheartscience]

This is what happens when bigotry is still socially acceptable and is codified in the form of laws against gay men and women getting married, adopting, etc. What the 2 teenagers did is disgusting, but what is MORE disgusting is that it was made possible by a society that still accepts and promotes bigotry against certain minorities.