Private Moment Made Public, Then a Fatal Jump

[ksinger]

I disagree with the first part of your quote "at the core of it is a generation seriously lacking empahty as compared to previous generations" but do agree "much of the blame for that may be placed right back at the feet of my generation"

No worries, I'm not offended; I'm genx so neither baby boomer nor gen y but I know people from both and as a generalizations go, I would say in the contest of self-centeredness and entitledness baby boomers wins hands down. The biggest thing I would say is, that young people growing up today live in a different world than the world the baby boomers did. These kids grow up fast, and in front of the whole world.

Even in the article you quote college students today also scored highest in past 30 years in agreeing with statement that people who need help should be helped. How do you explain that if at their core, these people lack empathy? Isn't that what empathy is about? But no one wants to be a sucker and the social norms of what is an appropriate thing to ape is different than it was. I'm a researcher and I can find more than one explanation why current respondents answer differently on an empathy quize than people did 30 years ago.

I got a chuckle out of the above highlight. Lessee...you disagree that there might be anything wrong with gen Y, but still, my generation is to blame for whatever....isn't...wrong with them. It really doesn't compute. And to a great degree it confirms the animus I've observed in overhearing people from gen Y bitterly and blanketly blame my generation for EVERYTHING. It's OK though. One day, likely when I'm dead or don't care anymore, history will be judging gen Y's choices, and while things will be different, they will also be the same, in that that generation too, will have failed of its promise, and have collective sins to answer for.

I'd be genuinely curious to know what is that social norm that it is now "appropriate to ape". I thought that the positive assessment (and oddly I suspect no gen Y-er reading this will get their nose out of joint about THIS generalization - positive generalizations are generally always agreed with. Amazing how that works) of gen Y was that it was supposed to be THE most confident generation so far. Wouldn't that confidence include NOT responding like a lemming on a research survey and giving what you thought was expected, rather than what you really thought?


And just a note on generations - my husband and I argue often over what the "baby boom" generation actually is. Everything I've ever read says post WWII to 1964, but he contends that it ended mid-50s. So I did some sleuthing, and found the term "generation Jones", supposedly from 1954 to 1965. It's kind of a generation lost in space I guess - not quite true baby boom and yet not quite true gen X either. Dare I say the trite old phrase, it was a "generation different from the ones before". We were young adults when we witnessed the rise of computers - so we grew up like boomers, with nothing but maybe a TV (black and white quite likely) and yet were young enough to embrace and to keep up, at least at first, with the acceleration of technology. Personally, I still probably identify more with the boomers than the X-ers, and I'm not quite sure why I would feel that way. Personal leanings more than anything. I still value something handmade, over a new gadget any day, and perhaps that is the defining characteristic for me. I WORK in IT, and yet....I still have not wholeheartedly and completely embraced all technology. That foot-in-both-worlds dichotomy and discomfort seems to be a hallmark of my generation. We have the savvy to use technology, but resist because we remember that life CAN be lived quite nicely without it.

Generation Jones has a few good reasons to be suspicious of technology
http://www.mlive.com/communitynewsp...f/2009/04/generation_jones_has_good_reas.html

 

[JewelFreak]

I like to flatter myself that I too am a very empathetic person, but my tolerance for people taking offense at the merest hint of criticism of a group they identify with, is at low ebb these days. I've pretty much decided that no matter how prettily people try to dance around negative observations - no matter how much they try to explain them, SOMEONE will take offense, so I'm kinda through trying to endlessly explain the nuances all the time. Take offense or not as you will.

Karen, yay!!! Me too, in spades. I am bloody sick & tired of righteous indignation hanging from the thinnest thread. It's not confined to any age, any generation, any group: whatever observation anyone makes has someone yawping, "You insulted ME!" Booorrring, folks. Get some perspective beyond one's own nose, please.

As to gen x, y, you name it, having it SO different from the one before (and always, note, sooo much worse) -- you're too young to realize that every generation since the dawn of civilization has thought the same. Socrates wrote about it, for pete's sake.

Boomers moan piteously that it was harrowing to be the 1st to grow up in the shadow of The Bomb. Well, that's me & I don't remember anyone giving it a second thought, let alone being irrevocably scarred. We were too busy growing up, like all the ages before us. We forget that millions of us lived at all via the benefit of medical treatments invented by our parents; prosperity the world had never seen, courtesy of our parents; transportation providing the ability to see the world as no era had ever before experienced; communication with far-flung places, and freedom as secure as our killed and psychologically- or physically-maimed fathers could make it. Yet how we reviled their selfishness for not providing us more! We, after all, were the very First Generation with Empathy! Civil rights marches, Peace Corps, demonstrations, et al. Most of it wasn't too difficult, didn't disrupt our lives except as we wanted it to, but it sure was exciting & we were so proud of ourselves -- and vocal about it. We, you might note, in our empathy invented nursing homes so those inconvenient parents wouldn't crowd our houses just as our kids were growing.

However, we continued to improve on the benefits our parents began, mostly through technology. We lavished ease, praise, all the luxuries we could provide, on our children to make up for our own "deprived" childhoods. We're the Bad Guys now for not providing more. Surprise, Gens Y, X, Z, AA, BB, on & on, it will be your turn before long! Humans are ever thus.

I'm a student of history -- and believe me, we can't even begin to conceive the harshness endemic to being alive for all time before Boomers. Prior to WWI 25% of ALL babies born did not live out their first year; 25% of those left did not make it past 10. Death & disability stalked every family on earth, hunger lurking close behind. We, all ages, are too self-absorbed to look at how blessed we are.

Get over the hard things you have to face: they excuse no vicious behavior. Each generation in its turn deals with the unfamiliar, the new, and always always has. What has not changed is Right and Wrong. It's up to each of us to grow enough backbone to stand for Good, no excuses, no sleaziness around the edges, simply virtue because it's the thing to do.

--- Laurie

 

[HollyS]

Private Moment Made Public, Then a Fatal Jump
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/30/nyregion/30suicide.html


I'm so glad they posted pics of these two. To the degree that they are able to feel any shame at all, perhaps having their pictures plastered all over everywhere will help. When I see their seemingly normal, shiny, happy, yet apparently empathy-free, faces, I truly partake of the collective shame of MY generation, that has apparently raised a better than fair number of monsters such as this. What parent raises a child so devoid of any ability to extrapolate a consequence, (who probably were protected from all consequences most likely), devoid of feeling, of empathy, of basic decency, to think that posting secretly recorded video of people having sex, is OK? WHO would ever be OK with that? This is NOT rocket science, but apparently it is beyond the broken or non-existent moral compasses of these college students.

I'm afraid this one just made me ill....

I couldn't agree more.

I'd be most happy to see them expelled and then barred from attending other universities and colleges. Actions deserve consequences, not just reactions. They and others like them need to be shunned by decent people. And a pox on any news service, paper, magazine, etc. that gives them an inch or a minute to 'explain' their actions. There is no defense for their behavior.

 

[zhuzhu]

I think using "generalization" to explain the behavior of the 2 students in the story, just provides this unthinkable incidence with MORE EXCUSE. Regardless of what the differences there are among different generations, LACK OF SENSE AND PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY is the core issue in this incidence. Do not provide them access to use "this is just a generational effect " as an excuse!

 

[Arkteia]

I, too, think it has nothing to do with the generation. The only difference between my and "their" generations is in the speed with which information is distributed.

Do you remember "Dangerous Liaisons"? The heroes of the book had only paper and quills, and yet they were able to destroy lives at that time as well.

In this situation, there is a naive kid who trusted his neighbor and two other kids who were malicious and immature. But I seriously doubt that they could foresee the consequences of their actions.

I hope that the law will step in. But honestly, people should learn to protect their own privacy, too. If the kid who killed himself was a little bit less trusting, he could have met his boyfriend in a motel. His privacy would have been protected.

I have heard about guys who send pretty explicit photographs of themselves to their wives or girlfriends over the cellphones. And vice versa. And then it gets around. It happens at schools, too.

I see that teachers at my son's school are doing very good job with teaching kids to be sensitive to needs of others. These days our children know well that they should not trust strangers. I guess we should start teaching them ways to protect their privacy.

 

[ForteKitty]

I hope that the law will step in. But honestly, people should learn to protect their own privacy, too. If the kid who killed himself was a little bit less trusting, he could have met his boyfriend in a motel. His privacy would have been protected.

But why should he have to pay $100 to stay at a hotel every time he wants to be with his boyfriend? He's already paying who knows what to stay at the dorms. That's not cheap...

Every time someone comes up with an excuse, it takes the blame off the 2 who streamed the footage. They dont deserve any kind of excuses.

 

[Kaleigh]

I hope that the law will step in. But honestly, people should learn to protect their own privacy, too. If the kid who killed himself was a little bit less trusting, he could have met his boyfriend in a motel. His privacy would have been protected.

But why should he have to pay $100 to stay at a hotel every time he wants to be with his boyfriend? He's already paying who knows what to stay at the dorms. That's not cheap...

Every time someone comes up with an excuse, it takes the blame off the 2 who streamed the footage. They dont deserve any kind of excuses.

Huge ditto.

 

[JewelFreak]

I have heard about guys who send pretty explicit photographs of themselves to their wives or girlfriends over the cellphones. And vice versa. And then it gets around. It happens at schools, too.

In that case, though, Crasru, they made the decision themselves, knowing potential consequences. This kid thought his dorm room was private. He did not film himself.

People sending icky pics of self are idiots. I feel sorry for them only because in your teens you think you're bulletproof & can come to discover a very sad truth later. A sender out of his or her teens is plain knuckleheaded & not worth sympathy.

This boy, however, was a genuine victim of a couple of superficial vicious lowlifes. They surely didn't think he'd kill himself, but they knew they would cause him deep anguish & humiliation, and for what? The answer eludes.

--- Laurie

 

[Karl_K]

There are some horrid people in every generation and many more that do not think beyond hey this might be fun.
At least in my area stop by a homeless shelter or charity and see who is helping.
The 20 somethings are better represented than ever before.
You will see 2 groups of helpers, those in their 70s and those in their 20s and very very few in between.
A lot of that has to do with families needing 2 paychecks to make ends meet but it also has to do with the people in those age groups.
What was way down this year(30%+) is the number of people in the 16-18 age group who volunteer during the summer but last year was better than average so it might just be a fluke.

 

[Nashville]

It's sad that he posted his intent to commit suicide from the GW bridge on his facebook page and authorities weren't alerted in time. A post like that almost makes me believe that he wanted to be stopped.

Such a sad example of how suicide truly is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

This was mentioned before, but I want to echo the sentiment...

It's not the generation thing, it's the character and ethics of the two students who premeditated and then acted on their plans. We should be careful to not over generalize this and group a whole sector together. There are people everywhere of every age who do horrible, abusive things to others...it's not just a teenage thing, it's a a**hole thing.

However, I will agree that we are dealing an epidemic of people who have so much technology at their finger tips and not enough "policing" of it. Technology, for the past 5 years or so, has moved at the speed of light. Just as we're grasping the power of one, we're introduced to another, and the younger people are, the more quickly the retain and explore the new medium. It's moved almost to quickly to keep up. Parents haven't had the time to educate properly, explain the risks and dangers and consequences of having the entire world a mouse-click away. We live in a social network of quick updates and status changes...from chat roulette to twitter, facebook, myspace...the market is over saturated and people are figuring out ways to abuse the system. It still, regardless, falls squarely on the shoulders of the parents to set and live by a positive example, but there is and always will be the simple saying "just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should"...and regardless of what we're talking about that is what you should lead with...right is right and wrong is wrong.

This young man, Tyler Clementi, was an absolute victim of circumstance and he was just unfortunate enough to meet two villainous, evil, malignant individuals. There was no way for him to come back from that level of humiliation "human"...no words that would heal, no amount of time that would lessen the shame. The ramifications would follow him for his whole life. And the two that thought it clever to do this, well, there isn't a punishment fitting or appropriate enough on the books, in my opinion, to truly make them pay for what they did. When I heard the story, I had a "how dare you" moment...the level of ignorance, and hate and malice is beyond comprehension and it makes me sick. I hope they suffer for what they did, I hope it haunts them their whole lives and more than any of that, I hope someday a divine moment of clarity comes and they realize just what they did.

 

[risingsun]

For those who think that there is no generational component to our current societal behavior, I wish you could have attended my Advanced Developmental Psych course, which I took in graduate school. We have come a long way from spreading rumors to recording others most private acts and making them public. Of course, there are good and bad in every generation. I have met many students who have great values. I have also met the entitled, disrespectful, and the stoners. I live in a college town. I have counseled college students. This fall, we had to deal with a full blown riot of drunken, abusive students who decided to have a block party. I had a client who was raped during one of these parties, several years ago. I hope that these two miscreants receive the toughest sentence allowed by law.

 

[Arkteia]

We can not stop it. We can not stop transfer of data in nanoseconds. There are thousands of websites teaching kids foolproof ways to commit suicide. Apparenly, it is legal, anyhow, no action is taken, and I know two families (personally!) in which kids have committed suicides by following the instructions to a T. Both kids were boys, and both died.

Yesterday I got an e-mail with pretty private photos of a relative of a well-known public figure. The photos must have been taken in the 60-es, in an intimate moment, and not meant for public use. Yet here they are, all over the I-net. I deleted my e-mail, but I bet lots of people have received similar e-mails, too, since it has started. 20 years ago, it would have taken time, money and efforts to distribute it by mail. Now it is easy.

There always will be someone willing to "test" his new Iphone, a webcam, what not. I do think that we'd better start teaching our kids - and grandkids - how to protect themselves and not violate privacy of others. Since most of us are beyond this point.

OK, grown-up guys sending photos of their...you know... to their wives are retarded, in my view. But next thing that happens is their kids finding these photos and sending them to all their friends at school. And you are right, adults make the choice. But 13-year-olds have cellphones, too. And for a 13-year old to make an explicit photograph of him/herself and send it to his/her GF/BF is fun. Or they would post it on MySpace. Anyhow, in a day it is all over the I-net and then these children are crushed for years with the consequences.

I feel horribly sorry for this kid, Tyler. He was likely not out of the closet. He trusted his roommate, one of the few people he knew in this college. But any person, straight or gay, of any age, would feel the same way if a video of his/hers lovemaking would be all over the Internet. Probably 80% of people would feel suicidal. And I am angry and sad that a life has ended so tragically because of a mindless renegade with a camera in his hands. And I think that no one paid attention to Tyler's post on his Facebook for one sad reason - he had very few friends, and no one was even checking his Facebook. A very shy, reticent kid. Also very naive. And trusting. A natural victim. What a waste...

But we are humans. And there is technology around. There may be some privacy laws, but usually the laws are introduced after the events. The only way to prevent malice is to protect ourselves. Just imagine that The Big Webcam is watching. Be paranoid.

 

[mrscushion]

This was mentioned before, but I want to echo the sentiment...
It's not the generation thing, it's the character and ethics of the two students who premeditated and then acted on their plans. We should be careful to not over generalize this and group a whole sector together. There are people everywhere of every age who do horrible, abusive things to others...it's not just a teenage thing, it's a a**hole thing.
However, I will agree that we are dealing an epidemic of people who have so much technology at their finger tips and not enough "policing" of it. Technology, for the past 5 years or so, has moved at the speed of light. Just as we're grasping the power of one, we're introduced to another, and the younger people are, the more quickly the retain and explore the new medium. It's moved almost to quickly to keep up. Parents haven't had the time to educate properly, explain the risks and dangers and consequences of having the entire world a mouse-click away. We live in a social network of quick updates and status changes...from chat roulette to twitter, facebook, myspace...the market is over saturated and people are figuring out ways to abuse the system. It still, regardless, falls squarely on the shoulders of the parents to set and live by a positive example, but there is and always will be the simple saying "just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should"...and regardless of what we're talking about that is what you should lead with...right is right and wrong is wrong.
This young man, Tyler Clementi, was an absolute victim of circumstance and he was just unfortunate enough to meet two villainous, evil, malignant individuals. There was no way for him to come back from that level of humiliation "human"...no words that would heal, no amount of time that would lessen the shame. The ramifications would follow him for his whole life. And the two that thought it clever to do this, well, there isn't a punishment fitting or appropriate enough on the books, in my opinion, to truly make them pay for what they did. When I heard the story, I had a "how dare you" moment...the level of ignorance, and hate and malice is beyond comprehension and it makes me sick. I hope they suffer for what they did, I hope it haunts them their whole lives and more than any of that, I hope someday a divine moment of clarity comes and they realize just what they did.

This. And I do believe this will haunt them their whole lives, because media outlets decided to publish their full names, which is deserved and appropriate in my mind.

 

[dragonfly411]

I just wanted to chime back in here, as my post I think caused some controversy. I generally see a greater lack of respect in my generation and younger. I was raised in a traditional southern country atmosphere, where respect is shown to everyone, and you always think of how it would feel if something was done to you or happened to you. I see more and more disrespectful and lazy youth and it makes me sad. This is a lack of respect for another person's privacy and a lack of respect for them as a person. The fact that people can find entertainment and amusement in another person's pain is sickening to me, and I just see it more commonly now in younger age groups than I have ever noticed in older age groups. I hope that helps to clarify.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I just wanted to chime back in here, as my post I think caused some controversy. I generally see a greater lack of respect in my generation and younger. I was raised in a traditional southern country atmosphere, where respect is shown to everyone, and you always think of how it would feel if something was done to you or happened to you. I see more and more disrespectful and lazy youth and it makes me sad. This is a lack of respect for another person's privacy and a lack of respect for them as a person. The fact that people can find entertainment and amusement in another person's pain is sickening to me, and I just see it more commonly now in younger age groups than I have ever noticed in older age groups. I hope that helps to clarify.

This is a brilliant point, and I agree in many ways.

In the instant access world we live, technology is a double edged sword...and the age group in question does abuse, that's just a fact.

After reading your post I was reminded of my own experience with this...This past summer when we were in Las Vegas, I saw a man die in front of me. We were in Caesars Palace and an older gentleman had a heart attack. It was extremely upsetting, not only because he was dying there on the floor of the casino while medical staff worked on him fruitlessly, but because as he was passing we saw his family horrified and in shock standing around him helpless (I'll never forget how his grandson or son looked--fist to mouth, eyes wide open staring and not seeing--it is still very visceral for me). In the commotion there was also a group of young 20-something males (the younger end of 20...no more than 21 at most) standing around VIDEO TAPING the whole thing. I was a cold, hard fact that this private moment, as public as it was due to circumstance, was bound to be even more public--and it was heartbreaking to see that some found entertainment in this moment.

I hate generalizations a rule. I hesitate saying that any one group is responsible or guilty of a broad-stroke lapse in judgement or character or morals...to me that smacks of everything we've tried as country to overcome for years....but I do agree that there is something there when we say that the some of younger generation is almost numb or unconscious of empathy, sympathy, right and wrong. It's a fine line.

 

[princesss]

I just wanted to chime back in here, as my post I think caused some controversy. I generally see a greater lack of respect in my generation and younger. I was raised in a traditional southern country atmosphere, where respect is shown to everyone, and you always think of how it would feel if something was done to you or happened to you. I see more and more disrespectful and lazy youth and it makes me sad. This is a lack of respect for another person's privacy and a lack of respect for them as a person. The fact that people can find entertainment and amusement in another person's pain is sickening to me, and I just see it more commonly now in younger age groups than I have ever noticed in older age groups. I hope that helps to clarify.

I think part of it could be that you're not seeing older generations in their youth - young people are cruel, IMO. As we develop and mature and become more aware of other people, we mellow out. I think that technology has made it very easy to take the cruelty of youth to an extreme and make evidence of it available to anybody with a phone/the internet.

Also, I think it is (sadly) a part of human nature to find some small amount of pleasure in peoples pain - how many times did you watch "America's Funniest Home Videos" as a kid and laugh when somebody fell and hurt themselves? This is an emotional extension of that - these kids (because while legally at 18 they're adults, they're still behaving like children) took pleasure and got entertainment from exposing somebody's secret and the pain they caused. As we grow up, I think/hope that we are less amused by pain and more concerned by it, and I think that happens in part because the longer we live the more pain we're exposed to and experience ourselves. It's easy to be cruel when you've never suffered and can't imagine what it feels like. It's far harder when you know what it's like to deal with that kind of pain. I don't think it stops completely, mind you (otherwise schadenfreude - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude - would be a concept only explained in reference to people in their youth), but I think it's more prevalent in younger people.

At the end of the day, I can't speak to whether this generation is any crueler than the last, but I do think that with so much technology around us the cruelty is far more noticable.