Princess or Round? - Budget Buyer

[needaring]

How can I tell if this stone will have inclusions at the naked eye?

 

[needaring]

By the way, No Sarin is available.

 

[slmulkey]

You could call the vendor and ask them if it has eye visible inclusions. Their idea of eye visible may be different than yours though, it seems like sort of a subjective thing to me. From what I've heard, most SI1's are eye clean, I'm not sure about SI2's. That's why I think that it would be safer to go with an SI1.

Also, who graded to diamonds who's stats you posted? You may not be aware of this, but GIA and AGS are known to be the most strict in their grading. Other labs such as EGL are known to be less strict. For example, if a diamond is in a borderline between "I" color and "J" color, GIA might grade it as a "J" while EGL would classify it as an "I". It's something to be aware of when you are shopping.

 

[needaring]

This is EGL certified. I have also heard that they are not as strict.

OK, so I need to know. Should I pass or go with it? Like I said, I am not in a huge rush.

Think I can find a better stone (Sizewise and quality) for around the same price. ($2000 max)

Thanks again all.

 

[Giangi]

NO WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's an EGL Antwerp cert... They don't plot all the inclusion and they're almost always off by at least 2/3 grades in color AND clarity!!!!!!!!!! Their pieces of paper are worthless and don't reflect the stone characteristics in any way.
Last SI 1 I saw was a P 2!!

A SLIGHT difference...
Also, beware of the 'finish: very good' they ALMOST ALWAYS put very good... Even if it's clearly only good... Yikes!

BTW, try to look for a 10% ++ crown...

 

[pqcollectibles]

Thanks, Mara, for the pricing education. I knew about cutters trying to hit the marks for .8, .9, 1.0, etc., but I never even thought about .75 carat weight.

Apologies to NeedaRing for the tangent, but hope the info helped him an others as well.

GOOD LUCK, NEED in your quest for the most gorgeous diamond possible in your price range. I completely understand what you are going through. Trying to work within a budget and find the nicest, prettiest, largest possible diamond.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 3/25/2003 8

1:22 PM Spyder wrote:

I would recommend a well cut sparkly round such as this 0.42 G VS1 or this 0.41 F VVS1. A sparkly diamond will appear bigger, and lots of sparkle can make up for anything.

----------------

Hi, Needaring: I agree with Spyder that a well-cut diamond will appear bigger because of the sparkle/light return. I also agree that I'd rather get a smaller, well-cut diamond than a larger, poorly cut diamond.

However, I disagree with his recommendation of diamonds for you. A diamond's sparkle is almost entirely dependent of how well it is cut. It's not related to color and clarity. Spyder is recommending diamonds in the "F/G" color range and the "VVS/VS" clarity range (both of which you'll pay a premium for) and you don't have to buy at that level to get a "sparkly", well-cut diamond.

Your stated budget is $2000 for the stone AND setting. Based on that, it's likely your stone will be in the 3/4 ct. range at most. At that size, it is unlikely that your naked eye could discern the difference between an mounted "F" diamond and a mounted "H" diamond, especially if your mounting it in yellow gold; it is even less likely your naked eye could discern the difference between a mounted "VVS" diamond and an EYE-CLEAN SI diamond. On a limited budget, there is no point in paying for something you cannot see.

However, your naked eye could almost certainly discern the difference in size between a .42 ct. stone an a .72 ct. stone.

The following is a well-cut stone that I found at Whiteflash within your budget; because it is well-cut, it will certainly appear larger to the eye.


0.606; G, SI1 round certed by AGS
A Cut Above, scores 1.4 on HCA (ex-ex-ex-ex)
Stats: 60.5 depth; 57 table; 34.9 crown angle, 40.8 pav. angle
Pointed culet, Ideal polish/ideal symmetry
$1736

This should be a gorgeous stone, and it will still leave you over $250 for your setting to remain within budget.

Good luck on your search; I hope this information is helpful.

 

[Mara]

AL--good response..but we have all offered NAR our suggestions for round stones around .60-71c and he really wants the .75c marker...so we'll see what happens!

 

[aljdewey]

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On 3/27/2003 12:24:52 PM Mara wrote:

AL--good response..but we have all offered NAR our suggestions for round stones around .60-71c and he really wants the .75c marker...so we'll see what happens!

---------------

Mara, thanks, I came into this thread late. Yes, I noticed that he really wants the .75 marker, but I also noticed from all his replies that it seems even more important to him to stay within the $2000 budget. I personally believe the reason he hasn't warmed to the suggestions made so far is the fact that most (not all, but most) of the suggested diamonds were slightly over $2,000...and would cause him to go over his stated budget of $2000 once he added the cost of the setting. In fact, the only stone he did show interest in (the one that was gone) was the one that was priced less than $2,000.

Here's what he wrote previously:

1. I was HOPING for 3/4 ct.
2. Think I can find a better stone (Sizewise and quality) for around the same price. ($2000 max)

Because he doesn't say he's *hoping* to stay under $2,000, I infer that he is more rigid about staying within his budget. He says he's hoping for the 3/4 ct., but he doesn't say that he won't consider stones that aren't 3/4 ct. He may really want the .75 marker, but does he want it enough to alter his budget? If so, then he's free to disregard my suggestion as well. However, I haven't seen anyone else recommend this particular stone which is well-cut and is within his budget and will very likely appear larger to the naked eye, so I felt it was worth the time to post it....especially since he was still seeking advice/opinions as late as this morning.

Sorry if you felt it was redundant, Mara.

 

[aljdewey]

Hi, Needaring:

A few other stones that might fall within your budget and still be beautiful.....all of these
supposedly fall within the cut specs for AGS0.

From USA certed:


0.70 I SI1 61.4% 56% GIA tmf no vg vg no 5.71x5.73x3.51 $1801
0.70 I SI2 61.7% 58% GIA mstkf no vg vg no 5.64x5.68x3.49 $1794

0..71 I SI1 61.8% 55% GIA tmf no vg vg no 5.74x5.78x3.56 $1859

0.71 I SI2 61.5% 56% GIA tmf no vg vg no 5.77x5.81x3.56 $1819

0.72 I SI2 60.7% 57% FIA tmf no vg ex no 5.77x5.79x3.51 $1878

0.74 I SI2 61.1% 56% GIA tmf no ex vg no 5.84x5.88x3.58 $1674

Sorry to those who may feel this post is redundant.....just trying to be helpful to Needaring.

 

[needaring]

Hey everyone!

I really appreciate all the help and advice I have received from everyone. You guys are great!

The vendor is currently holding the stone for me. I have not heard to many fond remarks about EGL so I am thinking I may pass.

I think I will be going with a Princess Cut in the 3/4 range for sure. This I know. Everyone knows my budget limit by now.

Anyway. I'll keep you guys posted.

Thanks again!

 

[Mara]

AL I didn't feel your post was redundant at all...I just didn't want you to spend too much time searching out stones without being aware that we all had offered stones for NAR within a pretty big carat range, even up to .71c for $2055 was my suggestion. The response more than once was the .75c marker hope (mingled with the budget though he may have been able to negotiate a w/g solitaire thrown in for the deal). Anyway, not a big deal!!

NAR glad to see you the decision on princess vs. round. I think a princess is your best bet on reaching the .75c marker within your budget. Hopefully you will get more responses on the princess you posted, as slmulkey noted, 2a is a great class of cut to be included within.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 3/27/2003 2:48:10 PM Mara wrote:

AL--good response..but we have all offered NAR our suggestions for round stones around .60-71c and he really wants the .75c marker...

AL I didn't feel your post was redundant at all...I just didn't want you to spend too much time searching out stones without being aware that we all had offered stones for NAR within a pretty big carat range, even up to .71c for $2055 was my suggestion. The response more than once was the .75c marker hope (mingled with the budget though he may have been able to negotiate a w/g solitaire thrown in for the deal). Anyway, not a big deal!!
----------------

Thanks, Mara. I appreciate your concern for how I spend my time, that's very nice. I was indeed very aware of previous posts and suggestions others made because I typically take great care to read the posts in the thread thoroughly before I post. In fact, I pay so much attention to detail when I read that I even noticed the princess stone you listed which satisfied his coveted 3/4 status (you posted a princess that was .76 for $1930). Because he didn't bite on that one, but did appear to take interest in a .89 stone that Giangi listed for $1875, I inferred that the budget was his primary concern.

Because I don't have any reading comprehension deficiencies, I did see and understand that he expressed (more than once) his desire for a 3/4 stone....but at the time I posted, he also said that he was still open to advice and suggestion. I considered myself informed enough to post more information that I though NAR might find helpful.

I'm sure you don't mean it, Mara, both both of your replies carry a tone that implies I didn't understand the nature of the thread I was responding to. Let me assure you that isn't the case. However, if you feel my posts don't adequately contribute to the thread, you have my personal invitation to ignore them with no hard feelings.

 

[needaring]

Hello again everyone,

As I was reading though some of the previous posts I was getting the feeling that people thought I was ignoring their stone suggestions. This was not the case at all! I have considered and I looked into every suggestion I was given so far. (I really appreciate them and please keep them coming)

Again, I think Mara knows best that I have definitely "increased" my requirements since I have started looking (As I was original searching for I1 and J Color but not any longer). I'm just looking for atleast 3/4 CT though. Please keep in mind that I am perfectly happy with the "3/4 CT look", since I will gladly go with a .70 CT if it caught my attention.

Yes, Budget is a big factor. This being the case, if I see a a stone that is not as off from another for a little less $$$$$, I will definitely consider it. I really don't expect to have the fanciest or biggest diamond. I do, however, want to get something that I can be proud of when I look at it. From the minimal knowledge I have gained so far, I feel I can do this by following the cut specs for a princess cut, and with SI2(eye clean) clarity and I color.

Now back to my previous posts. I have seen many prospective stones that were EGL certified. Is EGL really that bad and that far off from GIA? I have heard that this I Color could actually be a K or worse. Will it be this bad? The Cut seems to be within the proper range so that is a plus. I would imagine a EGL cert is better that no Cert at all.

I will e-mail dirtcheapdiamonds and see if I can gain any further insight on the stone in question. Hopefully someone here can help a little in that area also. In the mean time, I will be doing more research and searching.

Thanks again everyone.

 

[needaring]

Hello again everyone,

I am seriously thinking about going ahead with the previous stone I posted. I have contacted Richard Sherwood (who is about 40 minutes away) about verifying the cert once I receive it.

Now, I am just waiting to hear back from dirtcheapdiamonds about the wholesaler's opinion of the stone and any deal I could get with a setting.

Anyone else think I need to know anything else? More advice?


As always, Thanks!

 

[Giangi]

Are ya talking about the EGL Antwerp stone?? I wouldn't buy it... I've seen too many mistakes... Maybe this time they're right, but who knows? As I told you their certs are WORTHLESS, as they use to plot very few inclusions

... As per color... I don't know... I've seen G colors graded as 'E' and K-L as 'H'...

 

[Mara]

Maybe you can have the stone shipped to Rich before purchase to have him check it out?I would ask DCD if this is possible and Rich if he would accept it. That way you can find out before purchase if its as it says AND drive over and look at it when he has it before plunking down the $$.

 

[needaring]

Hey Guys,

I just saw the EGL stone mentioned above. I had it sent to Rich to get his thoughts. Rich checked it out an everything is Great!!

Just drove down this morning and it looks great! Now I am just waiting to hear back from dirtcheapdiamonds about setting options.

I wanted to take this time to Thank everyone who offered advice. Rich has been great during this whole process as well.

I'll post pics as soon as I get them.

 

[Giangi]

WOW! Congrats!

So was EGL Antwerp right???

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Yeah Giangi, I was surprised too!

Sean's (needaring's) diamond checked out dead-on-the-money. I was certain it was going to be a "J" before I got it, but it was a solid "I", with a middle-of-the-road eyeclean SI1 clarity grading. It turned out to be a great looking stone with a real nice IdealScope image for a great price.

Just goes to show you that you can often pick up a bargain on a correctly graded EGL stone.

What a nice fella Sean is too! He met me at my house on a Sunday, and we had a good time going over the diamond. Here this guy's in his early 20's, a college student, and he get's his fiancee a nice rock like that! I told him when I got married, I could barely afford the simple gold wedding bands we got! Heh heh heh... We were poor, starving students at the time. Sean, on the other hand, is apparently an enterprising fellow.

Congratulations Sean. It was nice working with ya.

 

[needaring]

Thanks for the kind words Rich. You're great!

Yep, finishing up school pretty soon.

I have been working full time the past year while finishing up my classes at night. Luckily, I was able to put aside some money for this. It's not much, but it's a start.

We are not really into the material things anyway but a little tradition is never a bad thing.

Thanks everyone for all the advice!